Life after Jade?

Sepulchritude Forum: The Absinthe Forum Archive Thru March 2002: Archive thru February 2002:Life after Jade?
By Admin on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 03:10 pm: Edit

ok, this thread is way too long, it's killing my computer.

re-start!

By Chrysippvs on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 02:59 pm: Edit

This should make everyone feel better

hello!

By Terminus on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 02:58 pm: Edit

Heiko> Did I mention that my German sucks? I took it college many moons ago.

Here in the states, we are not taught foreign languages in elementary school like the English, French, Swiss and Germans are.

BTW, I was in your country last fall. It is very beautiful, especially Southern Germany.

Admin> As you once said, I used to be such a nice boy.

Let Jabba the Hut call me whatever he wants to call me.

By Chrysippvs on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 02:52 pm: Edit

"Yeah, but it is soooooooooo much fun to fight with Don."

Then take it off the forum and e-mail him...I think most of us are tired of reading it, and I am sure Kallisti doesn't want to have to deal with the "He's a troll!" diatribe...

- J

By Terminus on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 02:48 pm: Edit

"Ted has already stated in an eariler thread that he is the spokesman for the operation and not Don, so there is no need to continue to discuss this on the forum."
.
.
.
Yeah, but it is soooooooooo much fun to fight with Don.

Here's what the Narc had to say about him:
.
.
.
"As far as Don goes, I'm done talking to him -- it doesn't seem to be going anywhere, and I wouldn't want to "insult" him post after post and be labeled a troll (in addition to a narc and someone with very little brain power). If his "courtesy" involves calling people half a fag and a moherfucker and telling me to "blow it out my ass," then I would like to have nothing to do with his form of courtesy."

By Heiko on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 02:47 pm: Edit

Terminus,

you say "I'm a loser" - okay...
you say "Don is the king of Jade" - okay...
you say "I'm going to shrink on the top and die" - uh, well, okay...

By Admin on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 02:46 pm: Edit

Don, I have not banned anyone asking you annoying questions. And so far you have responded to his post within my arbitrary bounds of propriety. Basically avoiding the verbal variant of fisticuffs and bitch slapping. You sir, have responded with characteristic humour which is much appreciated. Why dontcha leave it at that?

Terminus is rather tedious. I quietly suggest Terminus get over it, whatever it is, so we can all move on. You're trying to make some inane point that Don is holding this forum hostage and exploiting the medium to facilitate some fantasy product that may or may not be what they claim it to be. Don's virtues and faults are no mystery here, you are not enlightening anyone, folks have made their decisions themselves with no help from you. You are trying to call him out with a bunch of pointless and misleading (and leading) questions, most of which he is not at liberty to answer anyways. Why don't you write it all out in a thesis, instead of the pointed insinuations, and submit it to the board, and then wait it out. See if the sky actually falls instead of wasting our time broadly hinting at the low cloud cover.

To everyone: the term "troll" is as abused here as the word "terrorist" is by just about everyone these days. "troll" is a very specific and narrowly defined entity which Terminus does not fit into.

By Chrysippvs on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 02:36 pm: Edit

"To question Jade is not necessarily an attack on it."

I never said it was, I only said you are asking the wrong person these questions. Ted has already stated in an eariler thread that he is the spokesman for the operation and not Don, so there is no need to continue to discuss this on the forum.

By Terminus on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 02:33 pm: Edit

Justin> To question Jade is not necessarily an attack on it.

After my remarks, (and if Chicago addresses are still honored) I hope Don doesn't send me a bottle of wood alcohol colored with green food coloring.

By Terminus on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 02:28 pm: Edit

Heiko> Es tüt mir leid.

Don ist der König von Jade.

Ich bin ein Verlierer.

Ich schrumpfe jetzt oben und sterbe. ;)

By Chrysippvs on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 02:26 pm: Edit

Terminus,

Friend, in all reality nothing concerning the business, methodology, or structure of BEL or Jade Liqueurs has been disclosed in any way. Thus any blurb you find online is at its very best a prototype for what is to come. If you have a question about the nature of BEL or Jade E-mail Ted, who is spokesman for BEL, and ask him.

There is not need to spread this cynical venom all about the forum.

By Heiko on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 02:21 pm: Edit

Terminus - old news...

You try to convince people of something with facts they already know. Why don't you just take some valium and relax?

By Heiko on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 02:08 pm: Edit

Terminus, you dare fuckin interrupt me with your silly paranoia?

Nobody but you knows about that draft website (at least I don't, and really I don't care!). Jade isn't for sale yet, nobody has even thought about paying a cent for Jade yet. People whose judgement and taste I trust have tried Jade and found it extraordinary, so there's a good chance everybody else will also find it extraordinary. If someone will not agree, it's definitely not the end of the world.

What I read on the alleged privacy page you copied here is nothing but the usual statements every website will give you. Do you think any bank or website in the world will give you "100% absolute security"? They cannot, because living is a risk in itself and there will always be hackers who can maybe hack even the most "110% secure" system.

You cannot present anything that would be worth worrying about - even less about a business that hasn't even started yet!

Give it up! You are only going on everybody's nerves!

By Terminus on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 02:05 pm: Edit

Here is a fantastic Absinthe set, complete with a bottle of absinthe shipped from Spain.

It features a vintage Absinthe glass and spoon, both of which are over 100 years old. Perfect
start for the Absintheur!
.
.
.
Deva, a vintage glass and spoon, only for $250.00!!!

For shame, Justin.
.
.
.
Here is a very nice set for the novice absinthe drinker. It features an modern absinthe glass with cut dose, a modern absinthe spoon, and a real bottle of absinthe. This mini bottle of montana bsinthe will prepare around three glasses.

Great Gift Idea

Mini Montana, modern glass, Michael Roux spoon

Only $55.00
.
.
.
And you guys thought Don's favorite Betina was a thief.

I hope you don't rip people off like this anymore.

By Heiko on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 01:53 pm: Edit

hehe, and I thought with "terminus termina est" you imply that terminus was female and is now terminated...

It's good that my highschool diploma (if you can call it by that American term - it's something slightly different) attests me more than average knowledge of Latin. Usually nobody wants to know what I still know... that would be close to nothing (it was taught as a dead system of grammar, and so I forgot about it very quickly - had it been taught like a real language, I guess I'd be able to speak it now...)

By Terminus on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 01:48 pm: Edit

Ted> Sorry for acting like a prick. If your partner kept his mouth shut about "producing thousands of bottles" and using "tons of sugar" but then said he was buying alcohol even after he said he was making his own alcohol, I probably wouldn't be giving him a hard time.
There is a lot of shitty absinthe out there (mostly Czech) which claims it is from a 100 year old French recipe or 150 year old Swiss recipe and Don's "blurbs" as you call them sound an awful lot like the lies coming out of the Czech Republic. Don has a delusional fantasy about being a "Soldier of Fortune" and now he thinks he's Gladiator.

WTBS, I'm sure that the final Jade will be wonderful, you and Don will make millions, and the planet will be saved.

AND FOR THE LAST FUCKING TIME--I AM NOT A TROLL!!!

Don cannot disagree with anyone without using profanity or calling people names. That's not debating. Kallisti, please don't bother banning Don. This forum is his life. His last exit from this forum lasted about 24 hours when you "censored" his right of free speech to call fellow forumites "cocksuckers."

Yep, Don is a real man of his word. He said was gone for good, but he had a change of heart. Don sounds like a politician who voted for term limits but has a change or heart right before he's forced from office.

Donny, I asked a serious question about your internet security (something I'm sure I know a hell of a lot more about than you do) and you replied that the crap on your unregistered website was a draft.

BTW, I hope you don't use the International Bank of Asia (Hong Kong)
http://www.iba.com.hk/

This is their disclaimer from their website:

Disclaimer
The information, materials, products and services provided on this Web
Site are not intended for distribution to, or use by, any person or
entity in any jurisdiction where and when such distribution or use would
be contrary to law or regulation in such jurisdiction or which may
subject International Bank of Asia Limited and its group members
(together, the "Group") to any regulatory requirement within such
jurisdiction. Persons accessing these pages must satisfy themselves that
they are not subject to any local requirement which restricts or
prohibits him from doing so.


Communications over the Internet
Messages sent over the Internet cannot be guaranteed to be completely
secure or whether it will be duly communicated. The Group will not be
responsible for any damages incurred by users if they send a message to
the Group, or if the Group sends a message to them at their request,
over the Internet. Communications over the Internet may be subject to
interruption, transmission blackout, delayed transmission due to
Internet traffic or incorrect data transmission due to the public nature
of the Internet or otherwise.


I see that your DRAFT privacy URL http://www.surayoke.co.th/priv.htm is now
missing (and as for as I know, your DRAFT "sales policy" link
http://www.surayoke.co.th/pols.htm and your DRAFT "our management" link
http://www.surayoke.co.th/manag.htm never worked.


Here is the content of your previous privacy page:

JADE LIQUEURS

SURAYOKE COMPANY, LTD.

Our Privacy Statement

Surayoke Co.,Ltd. has created this privacy statement in order to demonstrate our firm corporate commitment to consumer privacy. The following discloses our information gathering and dissemination practices.

We protect your privacy by using highly secure order processing through the Payment Gateway System operated by Bank of Asia. This means: 1) your order is entered using a secure server; and 2) your credit card information is transferred internally using SSL encryption.

None of your personal information will be sold or made available to anyone else.

Your card details will be known by the Bank of Asia only.

Your IP address is used to gather broad demographic information.

This site contains hyperlinks to and from our affiliate marketing site, www.bestabsinthe.com. Surayoke Co.,Ltd. is not responsible for the privacy practices and the content of that website but warrants that its privacy practices and policies conform completely to our own as stated here. It does not have access to any sensitive financial details such as credit card numbers.

Our site uses a secure order form and powerful encryption to request information. We collect customers' contact information (like their email address). Contact information from the order form is used to send orders to our customers.

Financial information is used to bill the user for products and services.

Security

This site has security measures in place to protect the loss, misuse and alteration of the information under our control. No client information is kept on our server whatsoever.
.
.
.
.
There was a lot of horseshit in the above web page.

Thank the Kingdom of Thailand that it is just a silly draft.

By Chrysippvs on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 01:44 pm: Edit

That is crazy...the extend of people's Latin tends to be something about someone/thing being on fire. I know tons of people that know how to write "The dog is on fire." It bewilders me...

As far the the translation:

"Hail and greetings to you Walsh, the Greatest Buttock (Latin via Greek, gotta love it)!"

Remember the saying of Seneca, "The gladiator makes his plans in the arena."

Terminus must be Terminated (play on the dictum by Cato the Elder)

DMS - Dis Manibus Sacrum or Sacred to the Spirits of the Dead (the common ledger on the tombs of killed Gladiators, the Roman RIP)

Quod... From Pilate (what I always finish with in all papers I write etc). "What I have written, is written."

- J

By Timk on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 01:33 pm: Edit

since my latin stops at "I am on fire", what did that say Justin?

By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 12:25 pm: Edit

Fuckin' ave!

By Chrysippvs on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 12:10 pm: Edit

Ave atque Salve tibi Walshius Gluteus Maximus

Memente verbam Senecae, "Galdiator in arena consilium capit."

Terminus Termina est!

DMS et QVOD SCRIPSI SCIPSI!

By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 12:02 pm: Edit

Shall the forum turn into the Coliseum?

Gladiatorial games between the few for the amusement of the many? With the Imperial personage, when she deems it worthy to attend, sole arbiter of life and death?

Well, here I am in the fucking arena, bloodied but undefeated and unbowed and looking upon my own dead with the sorrow of any commander.

I am Walshius Gluteus Maximus. Commander of the Jade Legions. General of the Army of Indochina. Father to a slandered Enterprise. Husband to a slandered wife. And I WILL HAVE MY REVENGE.

IN THIS FORUM OR ELSEWHERE.

I await your fickle thumb, oh Empress of Electrons.

And so does the crowd.

You wanted to play Emperatrix, you got to pay for the break and circuses.

By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 11:27 am: Edit

Tim, darlin' there's no way you could know, the Mothra films were in B&W, but I'll let you in on a secret from Toho Studios.

Those two little Japanese island fairy princesses? The ones in rapport with Mothra by telepathy? They were real (I always knew it, I always thought they were a big turn-on) and GREEN. In fact they are now under contract to Suntory and bless every single bottle of Hermes 'abusen'.

So, you see, for a small over-ride to Suntory, which the bank splits with us, we ARE Mothra proof.

In true Asian style he just takes his bite on the front end and saves face.

(Don't ask abour Ghidhra the 3-headed monster, his agent is a prick. I mean -- REALLY.)

By Timk on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 11:27 am: Edit

Having to agree with Don is a rarity Kallisti, but you either have to ban him for a week, or take back the, IMHO, unworkaple policy on arguments.

By Pikkle on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 11:20 am: Edit

Life after this constant bickering?

By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 11:20 am: Edit

Come on Kallisit, BAN ME, show the forum how even handed you are, show them the level playing field you have created with your ill considered and unfair 'new policy', show everyone how you let a troll run rampant and attack Ted, myself and Jade, and muzzle us when we defend ourselves. Come on. Demonstrate the logic and consistency of your policy. Or stand for all to see. Arbitray, whimsical and inconsistant.

Because I no longer give a shit. You let this asshole on here? That means I really no longer care whether I can post on here or not. You let him pollute your forum and take no action against him? Which are you, free speech advocate or autocratic arbiter?

YOU decide, and let the forum see your decision.

My crime is I put my money where my mouth is and make, with Ted's help, the finest absinthe in the world.

For that I am a punching bag for every penny ante piece of shit with an anonymous proxy and a hardon (miniscule though it is in Terminus' case.)

UNFAIR Kallisti! I am a punching bag for no one, I punch back. You want decorum? Evict the aggressor.

By Timk on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 11:20 am: Edit

Don, what the fuck are you on, no credit card is safe from Mothra you fool

By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 11:09 am: Edit

I can answer every one of your "questions, you piece of shit, but I wi;; not, because they are not questions, they are weapons. YOUI ARE A TROLL and all you are doing is fucking with me and Ted and the best god damned absinthe on the planet since 1915. NOBODY WILL THANK YOU FOR IT.

Ted will not answer your questions and neither will I because we are not stupid.

The methodologies we employ are none of your business. I am not going to debate historical accuracy with you becasue you are not interested in the subject, and are IGNORANT of it, you are on a simple wrecking campaign, troll, so piss off.

The encryption system of our bank is none of your business and nothing on Surayoke's website. which is not registered on any search engine, and not open to the public, is any of your business. You were looking at draft documents on a website under construction. Fuck off.

When we are on line and delivering the final Privacy Statement will be posted and the identity, affiliations and security levels of our credit card merchant account banking facilities will be on record. We do not sell through PayPal or WorldPay or similar fly by night third party entities, we do so through majot (top six in the world) global banks and meet their stringent requirements for credit worthiness, something YOU would know nothing about.

Our historical accuracy and authenticity will be and is uncompromised and no bullshit from you about hand blown bottles means anything any more than as if we have to ignore shipping by air, or eschew the use of electricity, or such other steps to revert to 1800. You are the phoniest, flimsiest, most introverted piece of intellectual sewage I have seen on this board since Absintheur and the only reason I do not take you for him under another name is that you are nowhere near as smart as he is, you are a third rate carbon copy of him, and no one here is amused by you.

Go away!

(Marc my flunky? That's a laugh.)

By Tabreaux on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 10:58 am: Edit

Not everything Don has blurbed in the past pertains specifically to Jade products.

As I explained before, anything with regard to Jade products will be answered by BEL, at the right place, at the right time. Some things are propriatery art, and the details thereof will not be disclosed here or elsewhere.

If there is a personal grievance with Don, please leave our business out of it.

By Terminus on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 10:04 am: Edit

From the "loveable" Donster:

"PS

Stopped beating your wife yet?"

Gee, that's a loaded question...

That's the same type question they ask on the psych profile exam when applying for a job with the ATF.

True/False: I have stolen from my employer in the past, but will not do so in the future."

I dunno 'bout you, Donster, but I'd like to leave our wives out of the conversation, 'Kay?

Let me ask you a similar question:

Have you stopped smoking opium yet?

"Our tewchnology (sic) and the encryption system of our bank is none of your fucking business."

If you expect customers to turn over their credit card numbers to you based on that nebulous statement on your unfinished website, I guess it is our fucking business. I asked a simple question about encryption. If you don't know the answer, then say so.

"Still want to pretend that I'm the target and not JADE?"

Nope, you are the target because or your inconsistent statements about Jade. I'd love to have some Jade if it is all you claim it is cracked up to be.

Just answer these simple questions:

Are you making your own alcohol or are you buying it?

Is the alcohol grape-based or are you using some other fruit or grain?

Instead of ducking my questions again and having your flunky Marky Marc Campbell call me names, why don't you just answer the fucking questions?

"You're a bad actor."

Look, buddy, I'm not a troll. I have no absinthe related business. All this hush hush "we can't talk about our business because competitors may be listening" crap has got to be a lie.

You have no competitors.

Are you afraid of Czech swill?

Are you afraid of dirty, oily Spanish crap?

Bootlegged Swiss and French absinthe is not your competition if you are producing thousands of bottles a day and you are obtaining export licenses.

Hopefully, Ted Breaux can answer my questions if Don choses to duck them again.

By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 04:29 am: Edit

The M.L. before the author's name means that he is a prince of the royal Chakri house.

Mom Luang means that he is grandson of a King. Probably, King Chulachomklao, Rama V, also known as Chulalangkorn, who was the Thai king who abolished slavery, and was the first Thai King to tour Europe (which he did twice.) He was son of the king depicted inaccurately by Yul Brynner in the rather silly musical.

By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 04:22 am: Edit

From "Popular History of Thailand" by M.L. Manich Jumsai (6th Ed., Sept 2000), Chalmnit Press, Bangkok, pp 221-222:

"King Boromakot's reign seemed otherwise peaceful and even uneventful, except for the mission sent by King Kirti Sri of Ceylon, in 1753, requesting him to send a mission of Buddhist priests to help Ceylon in purifying the Buddhist faith, which was on ther point of decaying in that country. The Buddhist mission, headed by the Reverenc Upali, was sent and they established the sect which still exists down to this day, known as the Sayamwongse, or Siamese Sect."

King Boromakot was the penultimate king of the Ayudhya dynasty, and a weak man. He died 5 years later in 1758 and chose the less intelligent of his surviving two sons to succeed him. That foolish king was sufficiently incompetent to allow his capitol to fall to the Burmese in 1767, a process his father had helped along by staying out of the internal strife in Burma, thereby allowing the strongest Burmese leader to consolidate power and invade Ayudhya. It took ten years for the Thais to rout the Burmese and once they did, they relocated the capitol to a more defensible position 100 Km to the south, at Dhonburi, opposite present day Bangkok, abandoning the ruins of golden Ayudhya, which had been a city of a million people in 1600s and a wonder of the world. The ruins are still there. I have walked through them. My wife is from Ayudhya.

The Thais have never forgotten this harsh lesson in realpolitik, and meddle constantly in Burmese (and Lao and Khmer) affairs to this day. Weak neighbors are good neighbors.

By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 02:02 am: Edit

Lord H:

1753: King Kirti Sri Rajasinha obtains bhikkhus from the Thai court to reinstate the bhikkhu ordination line, which had died out in Sri Lanka. This is the origin of the Siam Nikaya.

this is from: Therevada Timeline

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/history/thera_timeline.htm

For a contemporary perspective on the close ties maintained by the Sanghas of the two countries:

http://www.sinhale.org/svvnews/290901.htm

Buddhism in Sri Lanka is VERY old, having been introduced by King Asoka of India via his son and emmisary several centuried B.C. -- i.e., about 250 B.E. (Buddhist Era) of which the present year is 2545.

Thus, Sri Lankan monasteries hold treasures of early Buddhist thought (among other things) that are now threatened by Hindi (Tamil) terrorism. The loss of these writings and artifacts and temples would be a serious blow not to just Therevada but the common heritage of all mankind.

By Lordhobgoblin on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 01:10 am: Edit

Thanks,

I'd appreciate that.

Hobgoblin

By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 12:59 am: Edit

Lord H, I will try to get some details for you. Sounds like you can have some fun.

Laos is Therevada, parts of Burma are, some of Cambodia is but there is a strong Brahmanistic influence there. Vietnam is Hinayana. The Viets are invaders from offshore. Not migrants downward out of present China from Han population pressure.

By Lordhobgoblin on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 12:34 am: Edit

Don,

I didn't know that. I could have a little bit of fun with that fact the next time after group meditation the bhikkhu says "Does anyone have any questions they would like to ask?". Maybe this would be being disrespectful and would cause bad vibes, but by now they're used to my lack of regard for protocol. One of the English monks I know there loves opening cans of worms, whereas the Sri Lankan Monks tend to be a bit more reserved.

Hobgoblin

(There is an absolutely beautiful Thai Vihara in London (just up from Wimbledon common). I used to go there about 8 years ago but I left because several of the Monks kept banging on about how great the Thai Royal family were and I found this quite odd (especially being the anti-royalist leftie that I am). The Sri Lankan Vihara is very plain, just an ordinary grey building, but the particular monks there suit me better.)

By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 12:16 am: Edit

Lord H, you might not be aware that a century or so ago the Sri Lankan buddhist monkhood had become corrupt in their teachings and so a delegation of senior Thai (Siamese) monks were dispatched at Sri Lankan request to remedy the situation.

By Lordhobgoblin on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 12:06 am: Edit

Blackjack,

The Vihara I attend is Sri Lankan Orthodox Therevada Buddhist. I have spent enough time talking to monks and lay-people there to know that there is no dogma involved. On this at least I do know what I am talking about.

Unlike other religions the whole point of Buddhism is that it is simply a means to an end and not an end in itself. It is simply a vehicle to get you from A to B. It is not the only vehicle and if you find a more suitable vehicle then you should ditch your 'buddhism' and get onto your new vehicle. This core value IS reflected in mainstream Buddhism (i.e. Therevada and Mahayana), it is absolutely crucial. The teachings of mainstream Buddhism are free from dogma. (There are of course a number of smaller branches and sects where this is not the case.)

Calling yourself a 'Buddhist' while clinging to dogma is like calling yourself a 'Christian' and believing that Christ never existed (maybe there is a 'Christian' sect that believes this but this belief excludes them from being Christian). The notion of experiential self-development is so central to any interpretation of Buddhism that a lack of this in any branch of 'Buddhism' means that that branch simply cannot be Buddhist.

Anyway Blackjack, you believe what you think you know and I'll believe what I think I know, because in the end this is all that really matters anyway.

Hobgoblin

By Auntieminda on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 12:04 am: Edit

Don,

Man, that's a beautiful post. I feel safer now, knowing that my credit cards are safe from giant malevolent mutated warthogs and shit. I'm gonna have to stop laughing in a minute or two so I can remember how to breathe.

Sincerely,
Auntie M

By Louched_Liver on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 12:03 am: Edit

Donster,

He/she/whatever proved your point. Let 'em hang themselves even more w/their posts.

By Don_Walsh on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 11:54 pm: Edit

HEY TERMINUS

Not only will everybody else's credit cards be safe from "the Tongs" and every other form of imaginary Yellow Peril stupidity you can think of, but they will also be safe from the Martians, ghosts, goblins, flying saucers, giant malevolent mutated warthogs, vampires, the KGB, the Illuminati, the Nazis, the Inquisition, The Japanese Imperial secret police, Ming the Merciless, Fu Manchu, Captain Crunch, Gorgo, Godzilla, Mothra, the 50 Foot Woman, Dr.Cyclops, the Frankenstein Monster, the Fiend Without a Face, Mexican Wrestling Women vs the Aztec Mummy, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, the dark side of the Force, the House on Haunted Hill, and your momma.

You however can;t have a credit card because they don't let trolls like you in a bank.

PS

Stopped beating your wife yet?

Our tewchnology and the encryption system of our bank is none of your fucking business.

Still want to pretend that I'm the target and not JADE?

You're a bad actor.

By Pikkle on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 11:42 pm: Edit

Mah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah!

By Don_Walsh on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 11:12 pm: Edit

I'll be happy to note WHAT?

The guy is a troll.

Evict him from under your bridge, pls.

By Admin on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 10:51 pm: Edit

Despite it's irritating tone and rather pointed questions, you'll all be happy to know that Terminus' last message does not fall within my censorship jurisdiction.

Move along please ...

By Don_Walsh on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 06:35 pm: Edit

Of course you are right, Marc. Terminus is a troll. What will Admin do about this troll?

Let's see.

By Marccampbell on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 06:26 pm: Edit

at this point, I consider terminus a troll. His agenda is clear. His sole function in this forum is to bait and harrass Ted and Don.

By Don_Walsh on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 06:11 pm: Edit

PS for Australia and New Zealand pls consult Frater Carfax. Short answer is that absinthe is not illegal in ANZ but at the moment there are some importation issues being resolved due to conflicting Customs regulations

By Don_Walsh on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 06:07 pm: Edit

Is absinthe an "illegal (in most of the world) product"??

NO.

1. Absinthe is LEGAL in the European Union and every member state of the EU has already, or is in the process of, regularizing their local laws to comply with the EU law. France has already done so.

2. Absinthe was never illegal on the UK, Spain, or Portugal anyway.

3. Absinthe is legal in British Columbia and other Canadian provinces may soon follow.

4. Absinthe's alleged 'illegality' in the US is much exxagerated. It is not illegal to possess. It is not a 'drug'. Thujone amd oil of wormwood are normal articles of commerce and freely imported, manufactured and sold without restriction. So is wormwood herb. There is an illogical archaic FDA issue about absinthe and thujone.

5. Contrary to your ridiculous statement, MOST OF THE WORLD not only does not ban absinthe, but doesn't even know what it is, never heard of it.

6. MOST OF THE PLACES where absinthe ONCE was 'illegal' now allow it.

7. France, the most vociferous enemy of absinthe, allowed the manufacture for export of absinthe even while absinthe was still illegal.

8. Switzerland bans absinthe but the Swiss have made it continuously and illegally since the ban in 1910 -- with alcohol purchased by those terrible Jura bootleggers -- from the Swiss Alcohol Commission. Switzerland is now considering legalizing absinthe and has already removed constitutional barriers to this step.

HOW ILLEGAL IS ABSINTHE?

A lot less than Amazonian parrots.

By Heiko on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 04:15 pm: Edit

"I know a lot about the internet, and I can tell you that IP addresses are worthless. I routinely use public proxies from all over the world."

I think Terminus feels haunted, somehow...

I have the notion that Jade will be legally available in Germany yet still be historically accurate...
Unlike Terminus I don't feel haunted by anyone, I just wait until Jade is released - and if it was never released, I'll cry a tear or two and that will be it. What's the reason for suspecting Don and Ted to deceive you?
If you're so concerned about buying alcoholic drinks that are not allowed by your countries laws, why are you on this forum anyways? My country's laws allow absinthe and nobody's really interested in it (despite the hype that some tried to start).
I don't understand it. What's the deal? Take some valium and relax, Terminus!

By Anatomist on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 03:13 pm: Edit

Man, Terminus, I think you need to get a hobby or read a book or something. Building birdhouses is fun. If you ask real nice, I bet the forum would pitch in and buy you a Junior Carpenter's Set and a copy of John Perkins' excellent BUILD YOUR OWN BIRDHOUSES.

K.

By _Blackjack on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 02:25 pm: Edit


Quote:

Ask any Therevada Monk of note and he will tell you that this is the case.



That depends on where you are. While they may teach in Religion 101 that Theravada is the "pure" form of Buddhism, historically, the primary survivng strains of Theravada are in Sri Lanka and southeast Asia (yes, the very Thai Buddhism Don was talking about), and they have been as influenced by and adapted to their environments as any of the strains of Mahayana. They have developed dogma and mandatory ritual and hierachies and all those other marks of "religion" which Western Buddhists eschew.

Buddhism is bigger than you are. You are making "no true Scottsman" arguments, which do little to expand understanding. There are 360 Million self-identifying Buddhists, most of whom practice a religion which is very seperated from the teachings of the Buddha. I'm not going to tell them all they aren't real Buddhists....

By _Blackjack on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 02:12 pm: Edit


Quote:

Buddhism is simply not a 'religion' as such, it has no dogma's, it does not bind the individual to believe in anything.



You seem to be missing my point, which is, regardless of what the Buddha taught, several traditions have developed from his teachings which are, undeniably, religions, with dogma, cult, mythology, etc., and these traditions refer to themselves as Buddhism. From an academic standpoint, anyway, it simply does not matter that if these traditions follow the teachings of the Buddha or not, just that they developed historically from that line, and continue to cite the Buddha as a founding entity.

My Christianity comparison stands. The vast bulk of what is now Christianity does NOT come from the teachings of Jesus, but from Paul, and from 2000 years of theologians, popes, kings and various historical developments.

By Lordhobgoblin on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 11:27 am: Edit

Blackjack,

"It is all well and good to talk about what Buddhism is SUPPOSED to be, but you can't ignore what it really is."

It is not about knowing what Buddhism is supposed to be. Buddhism is simply not a 'religion' as such, it has no dogma's, it does not bind the individual to believe in anything. Just because it has the outward appearances of a religion with dogma etc it is not one of these. The core principle of Buddhism is that the individual must experience for himself what is proper. Without this there cannot be any Buddhism. This is as fundamental to Buddhism as the teachings of Christ is to Christianity.

I am a 'Buddhist', I (try to) meditate daily, I read the teachings of the Buddha (and others), I attend a Vihara to have discussions with Monks and other lay-people an all aspects of Buddhism, I try to make my interpretation of the Dharma the motivating force behind my actions in life. Most 'Buddhists' I know do the same. This IS what Buddhism is (at least Therevada Buddhism in the West anyway). 'Buddhism' is quite simply a vehicle to get you from A to B (it is not the only vehicle available) and when you feel you would be better using a different vehicle then you should ditch 'Buddhism'. Ask any Therevada Monk of note and he will tell you that this is the case.

Hobgoblin

By Tabreaux on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 08:10 am: Edit

With respect to the questions below, information such as what we are doing currently, our daily production, etc., is not for public consumption.

Our products will be the most authentic available, and will offer the connoisseur the unique opportunity to sample the best original labels. Details of the absinthes will not be officially released until the products are made available. Nevertheless, if one is scrutinizing for adulterants or inaccuracies, he won't find them in our products.

Our products will be marketed legally in many countries. Those who choose to import them into countries where they are not legal will bear the risk of customs, not shipping.

These details will be clarified at the proper time, and this will be done via Belle Epoque Liqueurs, which is the sole worldwide distributor, and is responsible for all inquiries and commercial matters.

By Timk on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 08:01 am: Edit

Ted - see the donster thread plz

By Tabreaux on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 07:58 am: Edit

Terminus,

Questions regarding Jade products are to be directed to me, not Don. Don is the manufacturer and does not answer public inquiries.

By Terminus on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 07:29 am: Edit

Don> I knew you and Marc could not stay away from the forum for very long. What, did you stay away for a whole day? Wow! I again apologize to both you, Don, and your wife for calling her "a bad name," but I do have some legitimate questions about this statement you made:

"Personally -- I will not have a single furthr (sic) word to bandy with this fool. However, my
previous statement stands. Should I ever find this bastard in the flesh, I will have at
him physically, and he will pay for his insults to my wife, to myself and to my business. Not a threat. A promise."

Have you been reading "Soldier of Fortune" magazine again? :) Look, bud, I know you are fascinated with guns and adventure, but please keep you pent up delusional fantasies to yourself.

Now, I would like to contribute to the forum by asking some tough questions that no one here
seems to be willing to ask.

These questions are no slight to Ted (who for some reason, I innocently trust), but surely an honest businessmen such as yourself, Don, can answer these questions I have about your business:

Are you making absinthe currently?

If so, what is your production per day?

Are you producing thousands of bottles per day like you once claimed?

If so, where are you storing them?

Are you still having "packaging issues?"

Jade is supposed to be "historically acurate," right?

If so, are you using hand-blown bottles?

Are you using "tons of sugar?" I think Doc asked you about this once.

Putting sugar into absinthe isn't historically accurate, is it?

Or is the sugar being used to make alcohol?

I thought only grape alcohol is historically accurate.

So where are you getting all those hundreds of housands (millions) of grapes to make thousands of bottles a day?

If you are making all your own alcohol since nobody else can make it your degree of quality, why did you once say you were buying large quantities of alcohol?

If you are telling the truth about Jade being "historically accurate" in every way, wouldn't Jade be horribly expensive?

But historically, premium absinthe was as cheap as common wine, right?

Was the stuff that people on the forum tasted in NOLA distilled by you? Or was it Ted's home brew?

Is one of Jade's products an exact replica of "pre-ban" Herbsaint? I have never heard
of such a thing.

I always thought Herbsaint was always a substitute.

What is your policy on replacing bottles broken/seized in shipment?

What bit encryption is does the Bank of Asia use for its Secure Socket Layer? Is it 128 bit?

What happens if the Tongs get ahold of our credit card numbers?

What is our recourse if anything bad happens?

Has anyone here ever tried to sue an enterprise in Thailand? Good luck. You will be purchasing an illegal (in most of the world) product.

When you get ripped off by a drug dealer, it is not like you can go to the authorities.

Why are you collecting IP addresses for demographic reasons?

I know a lot about the internet, and I can tell you that IP addresses are worthless. I routinely use public proxies from all over the world.

Again, Don, surely an honest businessmen such as yourself can answer these questions.

By Don_Walsh on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 07:43 pm: Edit

Lord H, you go tell (12th century) Nichiren's followers that they aren't 'real' Buddhists and see where that gets you.

By _Blackjack on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 07:28 pm: Edit


Quote:

If there is no religion then there is no self-identification of that 'religion' and no proselytizing of that 'religion'.



Then wht the hell are the 360 million people who practice a "religion" which they beleive to be Buddhism actually doing?

I mean, a very strong argument can be made for the idea that Jesus never intended to create a missionary religion for the gentiles, just to reform Judaism ("Hey, Saul, I forgot to mentioon this while I was alive..."). Does that mean the two billion non-Jewish Christians are part of a religion that doesn't exist too?

My point is, no religion or philosophy or teaching which survives 2000 years or more is going to bear much reemblance to its original form. Religions are living, growing, evolving things which do not stay in the hands of the founder. It is all well and good to talk about what Buddhism is SUPPOSED to be, but you can't ignore what it really is.

By Lordhobgoblin on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 01:42 pm: Edit

"Hey, if Jerry Fallwell can be a Christian, there can be prosthelyzing Buddhists. It has to do with the historical lines of influence on the religion, and the religion's self-identification, not its adherence to any interpretation of the "original" teachings..."

Then perhaps the German Buddhist monk hit the nail on the head. If there is no such thing as Buddhism but only the teachings of the Buddha. If there is no religion then there is no self-identification of that 'religion' and no proselytizing of that 'religion'. Individuals then read the teacher for themselves and make up their own minds. An investigative journey.

No method, no guru, no teacher.

Hobgoblin
(Pardon the Van Morrison quote, I couldn't resist it)

By Baz on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 01:21 pm: Edit

I hurled some guinness once...

By _Blackjack on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 12:40 pm: Edit


Quote:

But proselytising is by its nature dogmatic, so can such sects really honestly be 'Buddhist'.



Hey, if Jerry Fallwell can be a Christian, there can be prosthelyzing Buddhists. It has to do with the historical lines of influence on the religion, and the religion's self-identification, not its adherence to any interpretation of the "original" teachings...

By Lordhobgoblin on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 11:39 am: Edit

"Buddhist - suffering is the only non-illusion "

Actually this is not really the quite case. With Buddhism the only reality is impermanence and change. Suffering is a result of grasping at things which because they are impermanent cannot be held, thus resulting in dukkha (which means unsatisfactoriness). (The word 'dukkha' is regularly translated to 'suffering' in English but 'unsatisfactoriness' or 'inadequacy' are probably closer to the meaning of the word than 'suffering').

It is not about letting go of the world in order to be able to grasp it (or even understand it), it is about letting go in order to be able not to grasp it (or to even want to understand it).

Hobgoblin

By Lordhobgoblin on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 10:55 am: Edit

Don,

Yes indeed Buddhism is by its very nature diverse. A result of its non-dogmatic nature. But proselytising is by its nature dogmatic, so can such sects really honestly be 'Buddhist'.

I once met a German Therevada monk who used to get very upset when people talked about Buddhism, he used to say that "there is no such thing as Buddhism, there is only the teachings of the Buddha". I can see his point very clearly. I also know another Therevada monk who very strongly takes the view that when you feel you personally have got all you can out of the teachings of the Buddha and it has helped you get where you wanted it toget you then it is time to ditch the teachings of the Buddha and use another vehicle.

Hobgoblin

By Mr_Rabid on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 09:50 am: Edit

"Buddhist - suffering is the only non-illusion "

You know, I think that is probably only the first stage mystery. Once you can let the world go (true of so many practices) you can grasp hold of it.

I betcha they comprehend the illusory nature of everything, and therefore it's fundamental reality. It's all a dream, and there is no waking to judge it by.

By Don_Walsh on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 02:49 pm: Edit

Lord H, I can think of at least one Japanese Buddhist sect in which proselytizing for new converts is (along with faith and study) defined as practice. This is Nichiren Shoshu, orthodix Nichiren, and it dates back almost 900 years. Now, I don't happen to much care for their sect, or for the lay organization associated with it for the last 70 years or so, Soka Gakkai, and I know it well having been married to a member...but there it is. This is a rather extreme Hinayana sect which rejects all of Siddharta Gautama's writings except for the final one, the Lotus Sutra. And they despise all other sects as heretical. You might recall that one of the aims of the Aum Shin Rykyo sect was to assassinate (with a VX loaded bullet) the Soka Gakkai leader, Ikeda, but the assassin managed to poison himself with the nerve agent instead.

Buddhism is sufficiently diverse that almost any generalization that one can make can be shot down with a specific exception. I say this purely in the interest of avoiding further generalizations by either of us (or hopefully anyone else.)

You and I might be tempted to regard Nichiren's followers, orthodox and not, as out of the mainstream, and Soka Gakkai as merely one of he many 20th Century 'New Religions' in Japan, and it is by no means the most bizarre. However, they have scores of millions of believers worldwide (Tina Turner; John Astin (the original TV Gomez Addams) to name two famous ones) so who are we to judge?

And don't expect me to defend Christiandom. If I had to be something, I'd druther be a Buddhist.

By Louched_Liver on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 11:27 am: Edit

Pikkle said- "bring extra liver."
Shit, half of mine was ruined in Ireland. I know of what you speak. After a vacation in Eire, I need a week or 2 to recover from my holliers.

By Louched_Liver on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 11:23 am: Edit

The one true god, Shane MacGowan is from, and lives part time in the old family cottage located in, County Tip. I think he sponsors a hurling championship there. They're mad for the hurl, and in Offaly as well.



mydocumentssliotar.jpeg

By Pikkle on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 11:03 am: Edit

I got the hook up in Tip... bring extra liver though, trust me, bring extra...

By Louched_Liver on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 11:01 am: Edit

Pick Ill,

You, me, Head-Ireland, Feb. 2003?

By Pikkle on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 10:56 am: Edit

Lordhobby... you have it all wrong! We are just pawns in the scheme of the higher power's apotic machinations... we're told to work hard, be honest, love thy neighbors, etc... but truth be told, if we all just wait around like lazy welfare pigs, bickering, fighting, killing and making outrageous purchases on the home shopping network, he will provide, we will dwell in ultimate luxury, be adorned with robes of silk and Tommy Hilfiger, drink Colt 45 from chalices of gold and jewels... gack, I was having a nightmare I was on the dole... never mind!

By Louched_Liver on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 10:55 am: Edit

Lord Hob,

Well said, well said.

One hand clapping,
L L

p.s. I can still send you "Is Shane MacGowan Still Alive".

By Lordhobgoblin on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 10:47 am: Edit

Don

"...they (Buddhists) don't much practice what they preach...."

Perhaps not, but then most 'Christians' don't practice what they preach. How many Christians really turn the other cheek, give away their cloak as well when someone asks for their tunic, love their neighbour etc etc? It doesn't therefore follow that the teachings of Christ are a load of hogwash. The same can be said about any 'belief' system.

Particularly in Buddhism, what others do and how others practice is not relevant. All that really matters is a person's own development. Also within Buddhism it is not expected that all 'followers' of the Dhamma live in the same way, or that for all followers Buddhism should mean the same thing, because people will be at different levels of spiritual development.

For some followers, 'blessings' from the monks, puja and devotional 'worship' are important, for others this is seen as an irrelevant distraction etc. For some even a statue of the Buddha is seen as irrelevant.

But I'm sure that living in the heart of Thervada Buddhism you know this already.

As to suffering not originating from within. I would argue that suffering is an internally generated reaction to an external (or internal) event. How is it that the same event will result in different degrees of suffering to different individuals? When those poor souls at the top of the twin towers realised they were going to die do you think they all went through the same amount of mental turmoil? Some will have suffered tremendous mental anguish, others less so, and some will probably just have been resigned to the fact that they were going to die. Suffering is an internally generated response to a situation. It is the individual that generates the degree of his own suffering therefore it is within the power of the individual to control and ultimately eliminate his own suffering.

Hobgoblin

By Pikkle on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 10:44 am: Edit

Ooh, shit... I love muay Thai boxing... the various and sundry times I've been to Europe, it plays on television like regular boxing plays here... love the fucking beat too!

By Don_Walsh on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 09:17 am: Edit

The 'conventional wisdom' (which is always dubious) is that muay Thai (Thai kick boxing) is the fiercest thing on the planet. Having seen a lot of it, and living here, I'd have to speculate that if it isn't the -est it at least is one of the -ers.

Like mahk ruk (Thai chess) Thai kick boxing is a lot closer to the original, devoid of frills and formalisms, and retains its martial character. The Thai armed forces still learn it, and popular sports like takraw (sort of like badmitton but with your feet and elbows and anything but hands, and a small rattan ball) are sort of preparation for it.

Make no mistake about it, don't mess with the Thais.

By Anatomist on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 08:48 am: Edit

The relative fighting capabilities of two individual pratitioners can never yield a judgement as to 'which art is better', because of the numerous irrelevant variables involved. In any case, most martial arts - especially ones like aikido and tai chi - are no longer propagated primarily for the purpose of fighting. They are more like ethnographic and self-improvement studies.

If you want to really know how to fight, the training is rather brutal and ugly. There are a group of serious no-holds-barred arena fighters at the JKD place I mentioned - they mostly use a few simple punches, takedowns, and ground fighting strategies with punches. Fancy stuff wouldn't cut it against these guys, especially because they deliberately go out and get the most important type of experience: real fights (or at least very close). Personally, I say let them have it. I prefer to avoid concussions and damaged joint capsules. In an age of widely available weapons, making those kind of sacrifices to prepare oneself for unarmed fights doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Yes, Segal has some convincing-looking Aikido ass-kicking in his films... now if he would only edit out all the other parts.

K.

By Marccampbell on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 04:34 am: Edit

I dig the evolution of this thread, from destiny's innocent inquiry, to terminus' maniacal
insults, to Buddhism. I love this place...like life itself.

By Nolan on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 01:39 am: Edit

Yep,i agree.there are subtle differences,some would say more than subtle between aiki and the chinese arts.I have studied the Japanese arts karate and Judo.And I have a friend who has studied under the chinese arts.There are some things he can do better than i can and some I can do better than him.I had 150 amatuer fights[boxing]he will not even spar unless he can take me to the ground.He does o.k. on the ground,but he can't pin me or make me submit.He will not last 2 min. if we stand up.and he is bigger than me.!! by 20 lbs.He and i were on the same wrestling team in high school.THIS IS NOT A SHOT AT THE CHINESE ARTS!!jUST A PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.!!
p.s. if you get punched in the face by some one who knows how to punch,and you don't,you will get knocked out!!I boxed 20 times before I learned to take a punch and lost 6 times....NOLAN

By Don_Walsh on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 01:16 am: Edit

It's been a long time (maybe 35 years) since I first read about Ueshiba Sensei, probably in Black Belt magazine, and of course he was already quite old by then, but still adept at putting on demonstrations wherein he would trash half a dozen American MPs, seemingly without effort.

But there was no aikikai in NOLA in those days, there was the La.Karate Fed. teaching good Shotokan, and there was Jacques Legrand of the French Federation teaching Judo. Nobody else was in their league.

My recollection is that Ueshiba taught centering of the chi, and thereafter its projection (for example, he could make his frail little arm so rigid that no one or group could bend it, although you'd swear that it could be snapped like to dry stick.) This sounds a lot like Chinese tai chi chuan, the martial form of tai chi exercises, but of course aikido (it seems to me as an outsider) has more to do with circular, rather kendolike footwork combined with very sophisticated counter-joint moves, even dislocations and fractures, like a particularly sophisticated jiujitsu without the more judo-like body throws and matt work. I have always found it fascinating. More recently of course Segal's movies (esp ABOVE THE LAW) have put apparently pretty good aikido in front of the public -- whatever else you might think about Segal and his films.

As for myself, I was seduced away from unarmed combat by the heavily armed variety.

By Pan on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 11:21 pm: Edit

I'm loving this thread, by the way!

I feel like when I was, like, eight and my dad and his friends would sit around talking about art and literature and history, and I wouldn't know a damn thing about it. There's something neat about watching a conversation that you know only a little bit about. It gets weird once you start to know more and form your own opinions . . .

Sorry, random thought.

*goes back to watching*

-Dev

By Destiny on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 11:14 pm: Edit

Remember that Taoism also has different sects as Buddhism does. In general, I find it to be much more of a loose philosophy than dogmatic. Of course, the mysticism schools are another subject altogether.

By _Blackjack on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 10:19 pm: Edit


Quote:

Gee,Black Jack-and underhanded insult
or and overhanded compliment?



An underhanded declaration of being intrigued.

By _Blackjack on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 10:15 pm: Edit


Quote:

China: really more Taoist



Well, the category we bookish type use is "Traditonal Chinese Religion", which is a hodge-podge of Confucian ethics and Taoist myticism and ancestor-worship and a really funky traditional cosmological system. The forms of Buddhism which thirived in China (previous to Mao) did so by mixing themselves into the podge.

Also, keep in mind that Taoism, as praticed in China, bears less resemblence to what is taught by Lao Tse than the Buddhism resembles what was taught by the Buddha. This has a lot to do with the fact that Taoism is all dogma and no cult; it is a set of beliefs about the universe, but no rituals and practices to keep people interested.

Of course, generations having been born and died under Communism, there realy are a fair number of atheists to be found in China, tho not as many as show up on the census.

By Anatomist on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 10:15 pm: Edit

I studied Aikido seriously for over 4 years. It's a beautiful art with much to recommend it. Not much Zen in it though. Ueshiba was mostly into an esoteric shinto study called Omoto Kyo. I looked into it, and from my perspective it looked like a bunch of convoluted, supersititious nonsense. The amazing abilities and persona of the art's founder are not much in dispute, though. It is very difficult to find good teachers and places to study Aikido. Because of its high profile in terms of promoting spiritual harmony and so forth, there are extra layers of forced piety and pretension to wade through. Also, people bring a wide variety of vaguely defined purposes and ambitions to their practice, almost none of which can be tested through any sort of concrete feedback mechanism (such as competition or combat). Another problem, which I suppose is common to many martial arts, is widespread ignorance of contemporary knowledge regarding preparatory conditioning, warming up, and the physiology of recovery - injury-wise, Aikido is one of the worst arts, next to Judo, which is dying because of this. I just moved to a city of 2 million people and there isn't any Aikido going on here that's worth my time. There is a Kali/JKD school under Danial Inosanto though, and I think I'll be going there soon.

K.

By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 09:48 pm: Edit

Yeah I did post before seeing your last post (prior to this one), Anatomist. Mea culpa.

Yeah, lots of us were first acquainted with Zen by way of Japanese martial arts. For me it was Shotokan karate, my sensei was already a godan in the 60s, Mikami Takayuki. Last I heard of him he was very near the pinnacle.

However bushido=zen=buddhism is an extremely tunnel-visioned perspective.

I never studies Kendo, though I would have liked to, and I did collect art swords, and was a member of the Japanese Society for their preservation. That was in the late 70s and early 80s before I moved to NoVA.

What I really wish I had bothered to learn is Aikido.

By Chrysippvs on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 07:22 pm: Edit

I think the Buddhists have it totally backwards. I am hard liner proponent of the Stoic school.

Buddhist - suffering is the only non-illusion
Stoic - suffering is the only illusion

Just like Epictetus said, "As an archer does not set a sight to be missed, so does evil (kakonpathei) not exist in the world."

By Mr_Rabid on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 07:15 pm: Edit

There are probably a lot of us on here that have practiced some zen-buddhist excercises from a bushido standpoint.

I had more success coming from that direction than from sazen sitting and the like.

By Anatomist on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 06:49 pm: Edit

"So I have real world perspective on it from two angles, and would love to hear about any real-world (as opposed to academic) knowledge that you might have."

Well, I sat on a cushion and counted my breaths. First came one, then two, then three.... I'd go on, but the description doesn't get much more interesting.

I also did another practice for a while. I sat in IaiGoshi with one hand on the scabbard and one face up on the sword handle. Then I breathed a few times. Then I yanked the sword out of the scabbard in a very particular way, jumped up and swung it around a few strokes in a very particular way, then put it back in the scabbard and squatted back down. Then I did it again, then I did it again, then I... you get the idea.

Plus, I believe you neglected to read the first sentence of my last post.

K.

By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 06:29 pm: Edit

It's also a major Western mistake to think that Zen = Buddhism, and more than, say, pentacostals (those who speak in tongues) = Christianity or Sufi mystics = Islam.

Zen is a tiny Japanese sect and too difficult to be otherwise. It got a lot of publicity because of its association with the warrior class and its influence on Japanese art.

By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 06:19 pm: Edit

YAWN.

So Anatomist has STUDIED Buddhism. Swell. Like, I haven't, huh? Kid, I STUDIED Buddhism before you were born, but reading about it is no substitute for being immersed in it for an eighth of a century, in SE Asia, and previously in Japan. So I have real world perspective on it from two angles, and would love to hear about any real-world (as opposed to academic) knowledge that you might have. Eh?

Blackjack: for the average Japanese you are perfectly correct, they will happily claim some Shinto, some Buddhist affiliations, and still when they marry these days they want a Christian ceremony because it is fashionable. However there are Buddhist sects in Japan that absolutely despise Shinto (mostly because they were persecuted under the State Shinto system in the 20s and 30s) so don't over-generalize. That is something the West does about Japan too much already.

Yes Buddhism is very diverse. Another common Western misconception is that Buddhism is somehow free of the secular and militaristic taints that some Western religions may have acquired. WRONG! The Buddhist monastic orders in China and Japan over the millenia and centuries -- Buddhism being 500-odd years older than Christianity -- often evolved into private armies, usually to defend land rights against acquisitive governments, and a lot of people were killed to see to it that the Buddhist clergy could keep their massive estates.

Buddhist countries:

Tibet: occupied by China, Dalai Lama in exile.
Nepal: monarchy just immolated itself, Chinese insurgency
Sri Lanka: civil war between the Buddhists and the Tamil Hindus.
S.Korea: really more Confucian
China: really more Taoist
Vietnam: what can I say?
Thailand: see above and below
Laos: see Thailand
Cambodia: a disaster
Burma: a mega-disaster, but the Burmans are of Tibetan origin.
Do you want me to bother with Bhutan, or the Buddhist enclave of Bali in (Muslim) Indonesia

Westerners have often idealized Buddhism, or various Buddhist sub-disciplines, out of wishful thinking and superficial understanding while in search of a more satisfying alternative to Western religions.

All I am saying is, if you were more familiar with Buddhist civilizations from the inside, you might observe that few Buddhists manage to avoid INTENSE materialism.

On the other hand Buddhist fatalism is all pervasive and can be quite stultifying -- living for the next incarnation is little different from Christians living for the afterlife. Avoidance of engagement with the here and now.

By Verdigris_Harpy on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 06:16 pm: Edit

Gee,Black Jack-and underhanded insult
or and overhanded compliment? Or would You
like to (un?)scramble that one yourself? I'm tired
of scrambling.Lets see..I will seek to dissect
my post for your edification:

Verdigris Harpy:Assumed name for purpose of
use on absinthe mailing list:Actual name:
Born as Lisa Ann Speer. Also known as: Lisa
Anne Speer. Age 39. Gender: female Gender
at birth :female.Place of birth: California
Genus: Homo Sapian Assumed State of Extistance:
Extistant.(In known time-space parameters-generally agreed upon by other Homo Sapiens, who
generally agree to they also exist-in same
said parameters aformentioned.)

Aforementioned referances,defined:

Plain Wrap/Generic:Generic.Plain.

Agnostic.Pagan:Available on internet,r by
discussion with other (dis)interested
fellow list members.

Catfaced poisonious love apples:
diseased tomatoes that look like cat faces
due to said named disease.Tomatoes once
erroneously assumed to be poisonous,as well
as an aphrodesiac(sound familiar?.)

Frock coat:19th century men's outer garment.
fancy and sylish.Repeatedly metioned on this
same mailing list.

fancy boy:homosexual male human,or male human
who wears fancy attire,such as frock coats.

Real ladies:Human women who oberve genteel
l conuct and show concern for the opinions
nd emotional well being of other human beings.

Put it away: a mildy flippant term refferant
to a male human tucking away his genatalia,or
any human being tucking away potentially
injurious ojbects.


Of course,not that there's anything wrong with those items....Partial referance perhaps from
T.V show Seinfeld-Enjoyed occasionally by
Verdigris Harpy nee Lisa Ann Speer,and "perhaps"
also by alias BlackJack,fellow list member.

In humor?

V.

By Anatomist on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 06:02 pm: Edit

Another important thing to keep in mind while discussing buddhism is that I'm no buddhist and never laid claim to knowing much about it. I've read some texts and done some Zen study. I like some of the Zen ideas, but I think they are way too dogmatic and hyperbolic and hung up on one very narrow meditative method. Personally, I like to be able to crank some Black Sabbath or old ZZ Top when I meditate, and do a lot of dangerous things with power tools and fire.

K.

By _Blackjack on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 04:58 pm: Edit

I am beginning to think that Ms. Harpy is not a real person, but some automated Bill Burroughs/Brion Gysin cut-up word-scrambling algorithm taken on a life of its own.

Not that that's a bad thing.

By Verdigris_Harpy on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 04:54 pm: Edit

I'm an agnostic self proclaimed generic
pagan(Yep.Plain Wrap.)I can already see em
coming.Tuck em away.

How do ye like those cat-faced poisonous love-
apples?

Bye thee bye-Real men do'nt eat frock coats.I
do'nt know about real ladies,or fancy-boys.
And I can see *that* one on the way,too....

(Frank Burns eats frock coats)

By _Blackjack on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 04:37 pm: Edit

Oh, I was passing a formal-wear shop today, and they had FROCK COATS in the window. I had to get my mom to MAKE me one for my prom. No fair!

By _Blackjack on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 04:35 pm: Edit

Japanese religion, specifically, is an odd topic, because if you survery the people and ask them if their Shinto, most will say yes, but if you ask if they're Buddhist, nearly as many will also say yes. And yet, most of them also claim to be agnostic...

By _Blackjack on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 04:17 pm: Edit

The thing to keep in mind, when discussing Buddhism, is that it is a very broad family of religions which, although they are of common origin, have taken such totally different historical paths and adapted themsleves so much to the indigenous cultures in the places to which they spread, that you cannot speak of "Buddhism" as a single school of thought. Don's experience with Buddhism is very typical of the popularized, almost folk-religion side of Buddhism which emerged in SE Asia, even tho it bears little resemblance to the strictly regimented, ritualized, esoteric, meditative Buddhism of Tibet, or the re-secularized philosophical Buddhism of Richard Geere...

Compared with the extreme variation of Buddhism (or that of Hinduism), Christianity, Judaism and Islam are pretty much the same religion...

By Anatomist on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 02:24 pm: Edit

Thanks, but I'm not good with compliments. My britches are already four inches too big and all puckered up under my belt... oh wait, I think I've got that metaphor backwards. Anyway, I don't need any more puffing up. What I need are large, cash awards.

By Mr_Rabid on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 02:13 pm: Edit

Anatomist, I gotta say- bravo. YOu have been posting some of the most well thought out stuff I have seen here.

By Pan on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 12:30 pm: Edit

Buddhism?

Bah. A bunch of flaming arrows.
And all that rot.
I'd just as soon think
Muslim mystic
Or St. John of the X
Than Buddhism.
Pass the lotus, please.

In a very strange mood,
-Dev

By Anatomist on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 12:18 pm: Edit

Pointing out junk culture associations, using pejoratives like 'blather', or ad hominem attacks on people or societies associated with buddhism... none of these seem like convincing arguments against the point I was making. Passing familiarity with a philosophy, or the ability to cleverly ridicule it hardly equate to understanding - particularly in the case of something which is essentially a non-intellectual experiential disposition. In any case, my comments advocating a buddhist-like strategy for more gracefully dealing with internet insults hardly requires the disavowal of all material posessions or hermitage. How ridiculous. I guess you can add hyperbole and the production of red herrings to the list of irrelevancies employed. The habit of locating the responsibility for one's problems everywhere but within is rife among people I have known, and people on this board in particular. Beware of that which you are quick to ridicule.

K.

By Verdigris_Harpy on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 10:12 am: Edit

I know a not so orthodox Jew,and not so orthodox
boy,who wears coats,but lab type ones(like D.W)
and is a not so mad scientist(well sometimes
a little mad,well voluntarily,well maybe
not so voluntarly some times..as far as I
know do'ent even require chem-tech or nat-ur-
tec..just good ole Mother Nature...)

Might look mighty fine in a frock coat..hope()
is'nt tip toe'n through this Wormwood shrub
to-day...

Green blushes....
V

(hmmm Don W.Might a bumped elbwows with ( )
over bagels n smoked Cthulu at Farmers Market....)

By Verdigris_Harpy on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 09:59 am: Edit

Question from newbie ingnorance(not same as
flagrant stupidity/idiocy(neurological condition/
brain disorder-Do'nt have thisun'.)

And not wishing to sift n sort,and blatant
Rear Window syndrome:Don W.-Do you really live
in Thailand?Doubt it but just showing off
blatancy and E.Gorey influenced innocence/
perversitudlendntednedtet-y.Sure.Just being
a pervert.I do have a Curious Sofa under my bed
in my tea towel cozy.

Lower your Dumb Waiter.

And I will Lift it down to you.


V.

By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 09:51 am: Edit

In case anyone doesn't make the rhetorical leap, all that talk about elimination of desire and extinguishing of the ego and all suffering comes from within, is just Buddhist blather one level above the "Grasshopper, consider the butterfly" scenes from Kung Fu.

Now, I like Buddhism, and have had two Buddhist wives (one Japanese and one Thai) and that's all well and good, I am just saying that for a Buddhist society, both the Japanese and the Thais are remarkably materialistic, much attached to judging people by external symbols of affluence (or lack thereof, deeply devoted to the cult of the Benz, the designer bag, the gold bauble, the Rolex and Patek Phillipe wristwatch, and the overtaxed bottle of wine they don't even like but require to be seen spending money on and pretending to enjoy.

I don't wear a watch, hate automobiles, and only drink what I enjoy. I preferto live without ostentation, while enjoying good food, a good Cuban cigar now and then, and good things to drink. I own three safari suits, no business suit, and two pair of shoes, one old and comfortable and one new and painful, the latter in case I have to go see someone important enough to be worth the discomfort.

My sole luxury is a collection of Nikon microscopes of the 1955-1979 period, presently numbering about a dozen, and which I add to desultorily from eBay and elsewhere.

Everything else I make goes into the Jade business.

So I think I am a lot less materialistic than the average Thai, or Japanese, a lot less involved with fashion and fad, and the flaunting of affluence for face. If I have not yet extinguished my ego it's just because I'm not ready to either die, or don a saffron robe and chant for a living for the rest of my days in a monastery.

By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 09:34 am: Edit

As someome who has lived for 13 years in a 94% Dherevada Buddhist society I can assure you that they (Buddhists) don't much practice what they preach.

By Lordhobgoblin on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 01:53 am: Edit

Practically all suffering is generated by the individual themselves and yes we certainly should let go and yes it is relaxing and liberating when we we do. But it is certainly not an easy thing to do because it almost seems to be in our nature (or caused by millions of years of socialisation) to cling to things and hold a false view of our own 'self'-importance.

Hobgoblin

By Tlautrec on Friday, February 08, 2002 - 09:47 pm: Edit

Anatomist: "If you see that you are indeed the author of your own suffering, you have only to let it go. Bitching, moaning, threatening, and storming away from the situation in a huff isn't letting go, it's just more of the same drama, more you in the same closed self-tormenting way. Letting go is easy, it's relaxing - although it might not seem possible when you're trapped within your own little patterns."

Wise, and true, although it's not as easy to actually get to the point of letting go as one might like, but once you do get there ... aaahhh!!!!!

By Raschied on Friday, February 08, 2002 - 08:37 pm: Edit

MY GOD! Thank you for posting that, Don! I've been trying to make out the lyrics to that for years.

Murray Head - what a name.

By Don_Walsh on Friday, February 08, 2002 - 08:14 pm: Edit

The song was composed and written by Benny Anderson, Tim Rice, Bjsrn Ulvaeus, performed by Murray Head, and is from the musical Chess.


THE AMERICAN:
Bangkok, Oriental setting
And the city don't know that the city is getting
The creme de la creme of the chess world in a
Show with everything but Yul Brynner

Time flies -- doesn't seem a minute
Since the Tirolean spa had the chess boys in it
All change -- don't you know that when you
Play at this level there's no ordinary venue

It's Iceland --
or the Philippines --
or Hastings -- or --
or this place!

COMPANY:
One night in Bangkok and the world's your oyster
The bars are temples but the pearls ain't free
You'll find a god in every golden cloister
And if you're lucky then the god's a she
I can feel an angel sliding up to me

THE AMERICAN:
One town's very like another
When your head's down over your pieces, brother

COMPANY:
It's a drag, it's a bore, it's really such a pity
To be looking at the board, not looking at the city

THE AMERICAN:

Whaddya mean? Ya seen one crowded, polluted, stinking town
--

COMPANY:
Tea, girls, warm, sweet
Some are set up in the Somerset Maugham suite

THE AMERICAN:
Get Thai'd! You're talking to a tourist
Whose every move's among the purest
I get my kicks above the waistline, sunshine

COMPANY:
One night in Bangkok makes a hard man humble
Not much between despair and ecstasy
One night in Bangkok and the tough guys tumble
Can't be too careful with your company
I can feel the devil walking next to me

THE AMERICAN:
Siam's gonna be the witness
To the ultimate test of cerebral fitness
This grips me more than would a
Muddy old river or reclining Buddha

And thank God I'm only watching the game --
controlling it --

I don't see you guys rating
The kind of mate I'm contemplating
I'd let you watch, I would invite you
But the queens we use would not excite you

So you better go back to your bars, your temples,
your massage
parlours --

COMPANY:
One night in Bangkok and the world's your oyster
The bars are temples but the pearls ain't free
You'll find a god in every golden cloister
A little flesh, a little history
I can feel an angel sliding up to me

One night in Bangkok makes a hard man humble
Not much between despair and ecstasy
One night in Bangkok and the tough guys tumble
Can't be too careful with your company
I can feel the devil walking next to me.
--One Night in Bangkok, from Chess

By Don_Walsh on Friday, February 08, 2002 - 08:07 pm: Edit

Blackjack, d'ya mean

"One night in Bangkok"?

Good song. Maybe I ought to dig up and post the lyrics.

By Pablo on Friday, February 08, 2002 - 12:46 am: Edit

Anatomist, that is truely the only way to live. Don't sweat the petty shit.

By Pablo on Friday, February 08, 2002 - 12:45 am: Edit

They say the same about Tyson

By Pikkle on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 04:32 pm: Edit

Yeah, they say Idi Amin was one charming mother fucker... as long as you stayed away from his mouth.

By Pan on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 03:47 pm: Edit

I seem to remember this movie, "O in Bangkok" . . . or something. Bangkok looked like a lot of fun in that movie. A LOT of fun.

Like, seriously, I cannot over state the amount of fun. Tremendous. If you catch my drift.

*flashback*

-Dev

By _Blackjack on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 03:32 pm: Edit


Quote:

Bangkok is known as a city of angels, and she is one.



Dammit, now I've got that damn song from "Chess" in my head...

By _Blackjack on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 03:25 pm: Edit

Marc hardly worships Don. They've even had it out a few times, as I recall. Marc just knows what kind of people make for entertaining conversation. You don't have to worship somebody to enjoy their company.

Can Don be a pain in the ass? Sure. But some of my best friends are pains in the ass. Lord knows I can be one. If I limited my acquaitence to those who are always pleasent, well, I'd have to live in Utah...

By Baz on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 03:10 pm: Edit

Anatomist-
I bow to your ability to put into words what we were all thinking. Or at least most of us were thinking that. I do wish this would blow over.

By Chevalier on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 02:48 pm: Edit

Thank you for that, Anatomist. As the Spanish priests say, it's "justo y necesario" to be reminded from time to time.

By Louched_Liver on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 02:39 pm: Edit

From Anatomist-
"If something as obliquely connected to your life of typing to people you barely know on a public bulletin board stresses you out really badly, it's time to step back and take a look at the larger patterns in your life."

Here, here!!!

By Mr_Carfax on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 02:33 pm: Edit

"Don's wife is an incredibly loyal, sweet lady, and she doesn't belong in this ugliness. She's had to make sacrifices earlier in her life, and I cringe at the thought of such a nice person being chastised, as would anyone who's met her. "

I second that - that fine woman has welcomed me into her house, fed me, and made me feel less of a stranger in a foreign land.

Bangkok is known as a city of angels, and she is one.

By Anatomist on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 02:25 pm: Edit

Chong called me names on several occasions. Especially when I ridiculed the 'science' of sociology.

I've gotten all pissed off about being in arguments here before, but it was obvious to me that it was self-generated pain. If something as obliquely connected to your life of typing to people you barely know on a public bulletin board stresses you out really badly, it's time to step back and take a look at the larger patterns in your life. If you see that you are indeed the author of your own suffering, you have only to let it go. Bitching, moaning, threatening, and storming away from the situation in a huff isn't letting go, it's just more of the same drama, more you in the same closed self-tormenting way. Letting go is easy, it's relaxing - although it might not seem possible when you're trapped within your own little patterns.

K.

By Wolfgang on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 01:32 pm: Edit

Ya Chonger! where are you damn it! You know I need you don`t you ? Remember that pre-christmass offer ? Email me if you`r around.

By Chevalier on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 01:31 pm: Edit

Well, Terminus, yours has been a hell of a re-entry. I guess we'll see where it goes from here.

By Terminus on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 01:08 pm: Edit

Blackjack>

I didn't get one but I listened to some of his songs when I visited his website once. I wish I was musically talented.

I have no problem with Marc except that he worships the one who most of us have had run-ins with.

Hey, where's Bob Chong? I've only fought with two posters here (Don and Bob). Is Bob still around?

At least Bob fights fair without calling you names.

By _Blackjack on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 12:54 pm: Edit

I don't recall Marc ever hawking his CD's. He GAVE some away last year. Good, too.

By Terminus on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 12:51 pm: Edit

Marc will be back hawking his next CD.

Don will of course be back because it (the forum) is in his blood. He said he was gone (yesterday) and of course he was still posting today. Don can't let anyone forget Jade's launch will be very soon, nor can he refrain from bashing Bettina for more than a few days.

I feel sorry for Ted because he's always having to apologize for Don. Ted really seems like a nice guy and he deserves a better partner.

I apologize to Don's wife even though there is only the slighest chance that she will ever read this.

I shall not mention anyone's wife again, no matter how vile her husband may be.

By Tabreaux on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 12:44 pm: Edit

"I wish the reporter hadn't used shitty sources and I hoped he'd let Ted give a more balanced view of absinthe to debunk the bullshit quotes in the story."


I tend to agree.

Unforunately reason tends to give way to sensationalism and stupidity more often than not.

By Terminus on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 12:31 pm: Edit

"Terminus, an honest question: What do you think about "Absinthe Old Way"? About absinthe fountains? About nutmeg? About the WNBC story? About anything other than Jade, Don and his buddies?"

I didn't try "Absinthe Old Way." I was in Europe when the SC sent the e-mail and I wasn't checking my account. I read the reviews--some good, some bad. Apparently it is sold out.

Absinthe fountains? Hey, if you can find me a real one for less than a grand, I'll give you a crisp C-note. :)

Nutmeg? I like it in my pumpkin pie and on top of a cappuccino or some eggnog. As a recreational drug, it gets a D minus.

As you know, the WNBC story was full of mistruths. I wish the reporter hadn't used shitty sources and I hoped he'd let Ted give a more balanced view of absinthe to debunk the bullshit quotes in the story.

By Tabreaux on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 12:31 pm: Edit

Don is no longer here to defend himself, and today is the first time I have bothered to view this thread. Needless to say, it is very ugly. This only serves to remind me of why I don't invest time in reading many such exchanges.

Don's wife is an incredibly loyal, sweet lady, and she doesn't belong in this ugliness. She's had to make sacrifices earlier in her life, and I cringe at the thought of such a nice person being chastised, as would anyone who's met her. There are many unsavory shoes all of us could have worn with a perfect fit at some point, so I don't think any of us are worthy of casting such weighty stones.

I do not understand the root and purpose of this argument, and it would be nice if these personal confrontations could be taken elsewhere, if not to email.

At the present, 90% of what is discussed in this forum is unrelated to anything absinthe, which isn't such a bad thing if much of it did not turn ugly in a hurry. Things will become very stale around here unless this forum seems inviting to newcomers. At the present, it is not. If I were a newcomer, I doubt I would want to enter this forum.

I have been in the company of 25 forumites at one time, and there were no ugly situations. As to why these things would happen in cyberspace, I can offer no explanation.

Peace!

By Admin on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 11:56 am: Edit

Terminus ... back off. I'm not kidding.

By Marccampbell on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 11:50 am: Edit

terminus,

After months of not posting here, you came into this thread and attacked Don in the most vile way possible. It was you that started the fight. It was you that created the bad vibe. Now you have the nerve to blame Don for driving kallisti to "extreme measures". You are sick. And your foul stench has driven me from the forum.

goodbye all.

By Chevalier on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 11:50 am: Edit

Terminus, some honest questions: What do you think about "Absinthe Old Way"? About absinthe fountains? About nutmeg? About the WNBC story? About anything in addition to Jade, Don and his supporters? I'm asking because I want to believe that you have other things to say.

By Terminus on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 11:17 am: Edit

By Don_Walsh on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 07:56 am: Edit

No, Wolfgang, we are being victimized by a malignant malicious asshole calling himself Terminus.

We as a group amd me as an individual and my family and my business.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Donnie> Why the fuck do you care about what I think about your wife? You obviously don't give a shit about what other people think as you married her and didn't give a rat's ass about her past. You obviously don't give a shit what other people think as you told everyone here that your wife is a reformed whore.

After spewing acrid, vitriolic comments for years, you are shocked (shocked, I say!) that someone would have the audacity to say something mean spirited to you? Are you the epitome of a hypocrite?

I never crapped on Jade (the product). I crapped on you for saying that the product would be "ready soon" about a dozen times in the last year or two.

Please tell me how I have victimized the group here.

And all I know about you or your wife is what you post here. I'm sure your wife is a fucking saint. She'd have to be, to put up with you for many years. When she passes on, I'll write the Pope and nominate her for canonization.

By Don_Walsh on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 07:56 am: Edit

No, Wolfgang, we are being victimized by a malignant malicious asshole calling himself Terminus.

We as a group amd me as an individual and my family and my business.

And Kallisti is suddenly switching from disinterested to pro-active and re-activates Terminus' account just as I instruct her to cancel mine.

Justice on this forum isn't blind, Justice is red haired and lobotomized. Justice is non-existant. Fairness is a fantasy. Equity is ephemeral.

By Wolfgang on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 07:12 am: Edit

The problem here is that we have reached a point where everything have been said about absinthe. Unless we have some journalist to immolate, some new commercial absinthe to test, some newbee to sit on a czech absinthe spoon and flame, some ebay stupidity to laugh at or some GT to organize, all we have to do is place bets on some forum rooster fight.

We had some good conversations about hausgematche earlyer but that was at the risk of getting our imaginary friends from other states into big troubles, huge fines or even jail so that`s better be over.

So that`s it, we`r getting bored, drunk and stupid.

By Baz on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 06:31 am: Edit

morrigan, I guess it didn't work. I still like the idea of you being tittilated, and I am not so easily distracted.


frock coat.

By Terminus on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 06:21 am: Edit

Don, my account was suspended after the two posts I made to you the other day. That is why I couldn't reply until now.

C'mon, Don, please don't act like a coward and a quitter and leave.

I truly think you can debate someone without calling them a cocksucker.

For the first time in your life, give it a try--you might like it. Leave the vitriol out of your posts.

I won't send you or Marc anymore "loathsome" e-mails. I told Kallisti that I wouldn't come down to your level and make "Don-like" posts in here.

As for "free speech," this is a private (not public) posting area and Kallisti is the moderator and makes the rules.

Besides, your vile, hateful posts have driven her to enact these extreme measures. You have no one to blame but yourself.

Verawench is already gone because of you. So are a dozen or so other people.

I left here for 5 months because of you.

When you stick to absinthe related matters, you are an excellent read. Otherwise, well, as I said before, I promised Kallisti I wouldn't come down to your level again. :)

You didn't like me treating you the way you treat other people, did you? Those e-mails I sent you were quite nasty. I apologize. I just wanted you to clean up your act a little bit. Hey, if you do that, I'll disappear again (if that is what you really want).

For you Don worshippers out there, you must realize that your God has been out of control for a long, long time.

Can't we all just get along? Please?

By Pablo on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 12:47 am: Edit

I am not visually impaired!

Oh wait. I am.

By Anatomist on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 09:31 pm: Edit

Can I still call someone a 'cross-eyed son of a whore'?

A 'visually impaired sentient being of questionable parentage'?

By Mr_Rabid on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 09:13 pm: Edit

Much like I would react to being told not to scream at someone in a bar.

The bartender makes that call, and it is certainly fair because it's her bar.

If customers start leaving because someone is killing their buzz... she makes that call.

I wouldn't drink in a bar with constant fights- who wants to watch what they say for fear of swinging fists?

You get a bigger crowd in a place where you can have a drink, a conversation, and if you disagree you do it with some grace and civility. If someone wants to kick someone elses ass they take it outside.

Some people take it more to heart if they are attacked, even on a screen. So they leave, and the forum diminishes in membership (and therefore ideas.)

I have seen em come and go, and I am sure we have missed out on some good company. Namely, everyone that does mind being flamed enough to avoid it.

The flame proof people (in our asbestos underwear) are all that remain.

By Larsbogart on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 09:00 pm: Edit

don, where are you going? dont go. i dont think anyone better leave tonight. just sleep on it.
we're pretty close to fat tuesday, then the day after is ash wensday and no more nuthin until easter.
larsbogart

By Don_Walsh on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 08:53 pm: Edit

This is a pre-emptive departure. I will not be muzzled.

Let's see how the free-speechers on the forum react to this violation of their fundamental principles.

By Pan on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 08:49 pm: Edit

Don,

Not to be impertinent, but . . . it would be a shame for you to disappear before I've had a chance to hate you (kidding, just kidding).

Stick around . . . you can *always* leave later, coming back is a little harder.

-Dev

By _Blackjack on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 08:44 pm: Edit

Nah, she just threatened to call the bouncer. Nobody has even been banned yet.

By Don_Walsh on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 08:24 pm: Edit

When liberals turn they make the very worst National Socialists.

By Don_Walsh on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 08:22 pm: Edit

Needless to say I've also been receiving thoroughly loathsome emails from the same creep and now from Admin comes Law and Order (Kallisti Version).

So I'm outta here, Marc. She tore down the stripper punk green fairy bar and erected a Baskin Robbins. Take a Number! No Smoking!

By Anatomist on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 06:58 pm: Edit

I think Vera has a crush on me. It's like high school, where the girl implicates you in a fight and you don't know what's going on. Am I supposed to punch someone?

K.

By Marccampbell on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 06:38 pm: Edit

I've been receiving some pretty loathsome e-mail.
Its coming from terminus.

By Morriganlefey on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 01:45 pm: Edit

I'm sorry Perruche, I'm afraid Chevalier's descriptive post caused me to swoon dead away before I could get to yours. Describing antique fashion accoutrements to me is akin to leading F. Scott Fitz thru the Jim Beam factory. I guess we all have our kinks - you've nailed mine.

Pass the smelling salts, please.

- Morrigan

By Chevalier on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 12:14 pm: Edit

Then just poke them a little -- "with soft cushions!" (Because nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.)

By Perruche_Verte on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 12:10 pm: Edit

Murder's too easy.

And escape is too hard. The state looks ill on those who move in on its turf.

By Chevalier on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 12:07 pm: Edit

May I suggest that you get a sword cane with a flask in the handle? That way, you can murder the ruffians and then offer YOUR thirsty self a drink.

By Perruche_Verte on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 11:49 am: Edit

Just the sound of it is wonderful.

Frock coat. Frock your coat, ma'am?

Frock. Frock you very much... I'll frock your frocking coat, baby. Let's frock; let's get frocked. Let's get frocking COATed.

The only problem with getting a flask cane like I've always wanted: I'd actually have to learn how to fight with a staff, so when accosted by ruffians (as hapens to people wearing such clothes, eventually), I could beat them bloody and then gallantly offer them a drink.

By Chevalier on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 11:49 am: Edit

Ah, dear Morrigan -- I'll bite. Why the fascination with frock coats? Is it the embroidered buttons? The lapels faced in satin? The hidden, vertical "sin" pockets on the inside of the tails? (Used for stashing flasks and tobacco, say some.)

Go to L.A. on a Friday evening. Hang out on Fairfax Avenue near Canters Delicatessen and you'll see hordes of black frock-coated Orthodox Jews pass by. (Alas, their lapels aren't faced in satin.)

By Morriganlefey on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 11:14 am: Edit

Baz - That person was me. Let me subtley repost my original tittaliation, in a not-so-subtle attempt to redirect this thread:

The mere mention of the word frock coat tittilates me beyond words...

*sigh*
- M


Discuss...

- M

By Baz on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 07:41 am: Edit

Auntieminda is right-somebody was getting tittilated earlier in this discussion! Why did it turn into a john wayne style brawl?
Baz dodges thrown bottle, dives under table, then reaches up to retrieve his drink...

By Pan on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 05:36 am: Edit

Wha'? Did someone call me? *looks confused*

By Pablo on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 05:30 am: Edit

Talking shit about a persons wife is a fucked up and STUPID thing to do.

I dont care how annonymous the internet is Terminus, its not that hard to track someone down.

I wouldn't be worried about what Don said online, I'd be worried about who shows up at your door.

Just a friendly warning.

By Wolfgang on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 05:21 am: Edit

--- picture Wolfgang playing a mad dance at the mechanical piano ---

Bang! bang!

(Damn! what does Fred Flingston does in my Lucky Luke cartoon ?)

By Wolfgang on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 05:15 am: Edit

--> insert good old western movie music <---

Wouhou! a tavern brawl!

Pan! Pan!

By Don_Walsh on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 09:05 pm: Edit

Yes, I have a lot of stress these days.

No, I dunno the Porno Patrol, I left NOLA for NoVA in '82 then Bangkok in '89.

By Don_Walsh on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 09:02 pm: Edit

Marc: like I said.

Rabid: Vera needs a sarcasm emoticon.

By Auntieminda on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 09:00 pm: Edit

You know, I really wish we could get back to a discussion of frock coats and top hats and silver-headed canes. Sigh. Mah little heart just melts. To say nothing of any other significant portions of my anatomy.

Meanwhile, Don, I found Vera's post to be perfectly clear. You seem a little tense. Perhaps you should get yourself a good massage, a glass of your favorite drink, a long soak in a hottub, or whatever it is you get to relax yourself.

I see that you're a former NOLA man. Any chance you know the Porno Patrol?

--Auntie M

By Mr_Rabid on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 08:58 pm: Edit

Don- lay off Vera. She was trying to help, you fat bastard you.

By Marccampbell on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 08:58 pm: Edit

I'm a peacenik. Though I make exceptions when my wife is threatened or insulted. When I lose my temper it ain't pretty. I literally picked up a guy who was twice my size and threw him over several tables in a restaurant. He made the mistake of pushing my wife.

By Don_Walsh on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 08:55 pm: Edit

Marc, why should Terminus hang around? He took his shot and got kicked for it and not just by me. Nobody chimed in on his side. Yeah he's a chickenshit but that's par for the course.

BTW, just out of curiosity, what would you do if someone on this forum called your charming lady wife a whore? assuming they ever came within arms reach of you?

(Probably, pretty much the same as I will, I'd guess.)

By Marccampbell on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 08:52 pm: Edit

the wench needs a good fucking.

By Don_Walsh on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 08:49 pm: Edit

Why, thank, you, Mr.Rabid.

By Don_Walsh on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 08:47 pm: Edit

Look, you two headed Vera_Prosthesis, I had no reason to know who the fuck Fred Flintstone might be other than a cartoon character; until this little flame, Terminus has not posted here, as far as I can recall, for a longish time and I do not make a habit of maintaining a database on the garbage people put in their forum profiles.

So, you want to join some half a troll in calling me a jerk you can both go and fuck yourselves. That's really trying to 'help'. Thanks for nothing.

BTW The reference to Artemis is uncalled for.

By Marccampbell on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 08:47 pm: Edit

I'm digging the fact that terminus called Don out and yet is nowhere to be found. like I said, chickenshit.

By Mr_Rabid on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 08:43 pm: Edit

Vera- what's that supposed to mean?!?!!? ;-)

Terminus- Don is irascible and worth knowing.

And he has shared information about Jade before it was ready for release. Personally, I appreciate that- see, I find it interesting to read about, and I understand that sometimes shit happens and things take awhile.

Relax, man. Reeeelaaaax. Have a drink or something. Jesus.

By Don_Walsh on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 08:41 pm: Edit

Ah, Terminus claims to be from St Louis.

The shitty little burg that Mark Twain said he could buy for $1 Million -- but decided not to.

Figures!

By Verawench on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 08:38 pm: Edit

Terminus called you fat. And he called you a jerk.

I said Anatomist, ANOTHER FORUM MEMBER, is a fitness BUFF and can also be a jerk.

The email was clearly from Terminus. It came from the same email that is listed in his profile. Why would I call Terminus "friend"?

Sigh... I give up.

By Head_Prosthesis on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 08:37 pm: Edit

Goodbye Don. Enjoy yourself.

By Head_Prosthesis on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 08:36 pm: Edit

You are.

By Verawench on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 08:36 pm: Edit

OH FOR CRYING OUTLOUD!!! I WAS TRYING TO FUCKING HELP1!! GOD!!!

By Don_Walsh on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 08:35 pm: Edit

And you remain a wench, wench.

You insert a misleading post into a thread and then get upset when people misunderstand? And then you get more upset when you are asked to clarify?

So who's a jerk?

By Verawench on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 08:30 pm: Edit

Fuck me to tears.. I'm going to bed.

Artemis is right. I can't say anything without being misinterpreted.

By Verawench on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 08:29 pm: Edit

Um.. as in.. Anatomist can be a jerk - like you, Don.

And "friend" is Terminus, stated cynically, not Anatomist. It was *Terminus* who emailed me a creepy little blank message with your name in the header. Not Anatomist.

Sheesh.

By Don_Walsh on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 08:23 pm: Edit

"Anatomist is also a jerk and he's a "fitness buff". I doubt an ill temper has anything to do with not being able to glimpse one's own genitalia."

Vera, that's your post below. Were you not attributing a Terminus post to Anatomist? Sounds like it. And you sent me an email in which you described Terminus as a 'friend' so I figured you ought to know...

If not, then all references to 'Anatomist/gnat' in my posts below should be replaced with 'Terminus'.

By Verawench on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 08:16 pm: Edit

"According to Vera, Terminus is Anatomist with a second later of disguise. "

Huh???

By Don_Walsh on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 08:14 pm: Edit

According to Vera, Terminus is Anatomist with a second later of disguise.

True? I dunno but it is a working hypothesis.

It does explain the vitriol. Anatomist is nirsing an old grudge (from the Clinton years indeed) and thinks to use the forum to work off some of that stinking old angst.

Well, I don't see any band of followers forming at his back, so this is like one of those scenes in SHRECK. I may be an ornery ogre, but, I'm not the little fellow suddenly all by himself and about to shit his pants and run away. Watch who you wave that torch at, buddy. I might just sit on you and squash you to cheese.

By Verawench on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 08:10 pm: Edit

Wolf, honey, have you been raiding your personal stash again?

Geez..

By Wolfgang on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 08:05 pm: Edit

Hey! Mister T., You just wasted a nice thread where Artis was lapping Vara's feet !

By Don_Walsh on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 07:18 pm: Edit

And BTW I was active on this board long before Jade ever crossed my mind or Ted's.

By Don_Walsh on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 07:15 pm: Edit

By the way, Gnat, you illiterate fool, the word is expatriate, not ex-patriot. You just flunked Hooked on Phonics.

The noun is spelled just like the verb.

By Don_Walsh on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 07:11 pm: Edit

Head, he's not a troll, he's a GNAT.

By Mvario on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 07:09 pm: Edit

If I call Don names will you buy me a ticket to bangkok? I don't have beef with anyone (or tofu faux-beaf), but I know a cheap vacation when I see one. ;-)

By Don_Walsh on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 07:08 pm: Edit

Ah, GNAT is Terminus?

Well, y'know what we do with gnats?

Crush 'em.

By Head_Prosthesis on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 07:03 pm: Edit

What did you folks learn about trolls...

Absolutely nothing?

By Marccampbell on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 06:57 pm: Edit

and after September 11, what kind of sick fuck calls himself a "domestic terrorist".

By Don_Walsh on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 06:50 pm: Edit

What's more, Terminus is a coward hiding behind a handle and sniping at someone with the courage to use his real name, hiding and sniping like some other slimy little bastards I can think of. Cowards without honor, without face, and without, in the final analysis, credibility.

Yeah my wife used to be a whore. 13 years ago. However she had a child to support and no other options. Terminus is a cocksucking whore today and what's his excuse?

"On the lam?" Hardly. There are no warrants out for me. On the lam from a lot of stupidity I see in the US these days. To that charge I plead Me Culpa.

By Pikkle on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 06:46 pm: Edit

C'mon Don, he's your bitch, don't you see, he'd really like to do some time with you...

By Marccampbell on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 06:45 pm: Edit

terminus,

I really believe Don would have the guts to say what he thinks of to your face. On the other hand, you strike me as the kind of chickenshit loudmouth who hides behind the anonymity of the internet. I'll buy you a ticket to Bangkok so that you can call Don "a fat ex-patriot on the lam who married a whore" to his face.

An Audi driving "domestic terrorist". What a fucking joke!

By Don_Walsh on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 06:41 pm: Edit

I repeat, rhetorically, "What's Terminus?"

Terminus is an asshole. Fuck you, Terminus. I'll not bandy words with you, you vile little petty shit.

By Etienne on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 06:34 pm: Edit

Don is an honest man, something fairly rare these days. As is also, I believe, Ted. If they say that they're doing what they can to get their ducks in a row regarding the Jade release, I'm inclined to believe them both.

Not that I wouldn't mind seeing the "order here" page of Don's website become active. ;-)

By Verawench on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 05:08 pm: Edit

Anatomist is also a jerk and he's a "fitness buff". I doubt an ill temper has anything to do with not being able to glimpse one's own genitalia.

Don is not an easy individual, no one can dispute that. But he's respected, loyal, and his knowledge of absinthe making and history is surpassed only (and I'm guessing) by Ted's. He's been a kind and generous host to some of the forumites and is very straight-forward about his lifestyle and convictions.

This is not the wench's Don Soapbox. I've gotten into some vicious biting contest with the man.

Anyway, Terminus, you're being ruder than Don's ever been, nor have you seen enough to judge him. Which makes you ill-equipped to demand anything of him or insult him.

Wench

By Pikkle on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 05:06 pm: Edit

Terminus sounds like a jilted little love bitch...

By Terminus on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 04:59 pm: Edit

Vera, I'm not afraid of Don.

He's just a fat, bitter, ex-patriot on the lam who married a whore and is still paying for it.

He acts like an asshole on this forum because he hasn't seen his own penis in ten years. Lay off the noodles, Don. Eat some fruit for chrissakes. And 'no,' Don, Bananas Foster is technically not "fruit."

If he wasn't the "Jade man," 99.97% of the people here would have nothing to do with him.

WTBS, and even though he's an obese asshole, Don knows absinthe.
C'mon you Don wannabes, lackeys and sychophants. Defend your liege.

Donnie> Why don't you defend yourself, Fat Bastard?

By Verawench on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 04:20 pm: Edit

Terminus, you just bought yourself a one way ticket to Verbal Assault.

Not that most of us here don't nurse the same sentiments, deep down inside, like frightened little schoolgirls.

By Terminus on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 03:08 pm: Edit

I've got my pink tutu on, Vera.

Terminus is an actual Belle Epoch absinthe. I've heard it was quite good. It was a premier absinthe.

Jade is a myth to most people here. Some have sampled its three manifestations--most have not. Don seems to be having problems getting the proper paperwork together. He's a scientist, dammit, not a schmoozer. I guess rednecks in Tennessee with outdoor stills used to make white lightning are scientists, too. To sum up, I disappeared for 5 months and upon my return I see that Don is still making the same lame ass excuses.

Don, why don't you logoff, get off your fat ass and get that Jade export license by greasing the palms and asses of the local and national corrupt Thai politicos.

You promised Jade would be ready for launch during the Clinton administration. Well, maybe it will be ready for the next Clinton administration (Chelsea). You are no better than a politician--a promise made is a promise broken. "Read my lips--no new Jade." "I did not have sexual relations with that Jade." "I am not a (Jade) crook." "Not over my dead body will they raise your Jade."

More Don lies: "The Jade is in the mail." "I won't Jade in your mouth." "I love you, Jade. That's why we should make love." "Does this Jade make me look fat? No."

Donnie, remember you can just dump the whole works in the China Sea like you threatened to do a year ago. That will create peer pressure and the people here will hate me. Oh no! Of course, you are a businessman and that would be a stupendously silly and stupid business decision.

Thank Allah the Merciful that Ted Breaux is the marketing/PR half of your little enterprise.

By Verawench on Monday, February 04, 2002 - 06:20 pm: Edit

"and it ain't gonna be pretty!!!"

Unless we dress them both up in pink tutus.

Oh wait..

By Artist on Monday, February 04, 2002 - 06:19 pm: Edit

Uh-oh...wowowowow...There's gonna be a shoot-em-up at the KO chorale.


and it ain't gonna be pretty!!!

By Don_Walsh on Monday, February 04, 2002 - 06:10 pm: Edit

What's Terminus?

By Terminus on Monday, February 04, 2002 - 04:00 pm: Edit

What's Jade?

By Verawench on Friday, February 01, 2002 - 07:04 pm: Edit

hey!!

oh! milk... *grin*

By Artist on Friday, February 01, 2002 - 06:59 pm: Edit

lap, lap, lap...

By Verawench on Friday, February 01, 2002 - 06:33 pm: Edit

*stttrrretch...*

By Artist on Friday, February 01, 2002 - 05:20 pm: Edit

...yawn...

By Verawench on Friday, February 01, 2002 - 02:27 pm: Edit

...zzzzzz.. nap... zzz..

By Artist on Friday, February 01, 2002 - 01:49 pm: Edit

pant, pant

By Verawench on Friday, February 01, 2002 - 11:57 am: Edit

*ROLL, STRUGGLE, FIGHT*

By Artist on Friday, February 01, 2002 - 11:48 am: Edit

pounce!!!

By Verawench on Friday, February 01, 2002 - 11:46 am: Edit

*smack*

By Verawench on Friday, February 01, 2002 - 11:45 am: Edit

*swipe*

By Artist on Friday, February 01, 2002 - 11:35 am: Edit

meow?

By Verawench on Friday, February 01, 2002 - 11:34 am: Edit

Purrr... rrrrrpurrr...

By Artist on Friday, February 01, 2002 - 11:32 am: Edit

Fssst!!!

By Verawench on Friday, February 01, 2002 - 11:30 am: Edit

Wolf, can you believe they're paying us to do this?

And I do need a good comforting scratch, but not behind my ears.

By Verawench on Friday, February 01, 2002 - 11:28 am: Edit

Hissssssss.... rreow...

By Wolfgang on Friday, February 01, 2002 - 11:25 am: Edit

There she is, in a test tube for you to watch. Don`t remove the cork doo! Nice and cute girl under glass but poisonous as a snake. Don`t let her lure you into opening the cork I said!!!! Noooo! NO!

Pop!


Hoho...

By Destiny on Friday, February 01, 2002 - 11:17 am: Edit

Well, this has certainly been interesting. Never imagined the subject would come up when I started posting here. But then again, I don't know why I am surprised considering some of the threads. One last question, Don. If you don't mind me asking, are you the Dom, or just the "boss"? I'm gonna guess both, right?

Verawench, will a nice scratch behind the ears help any?

By Artist on Friday, February 01, 2002 - 09:46 am: Edit

meow

By Verawench on Friday, February 01, 2002 - 07:13 am: Edit

"After recently being lacerated by Anatomist's harsh comments about your writing (which I though was quite good), I would have hoped that you would be a little more temperate with your own words towards someone that never before uttered even the slightest disrespect towards you."

Well you know, a dog that gets beaten tends to bite. Consider me as such.

By Don_Walsh on Friday, February 01, 2002 - 01:03 am: Edit

PS We don't offer sessions with female subs; anyway we have found, over many years now, that few men come forward looking for subs, and 90% of the few who do sound so clueless that I reject them out of hand.

Maybe 10% of our subs are Asian, mostly Chinese from surrounding countries, and Americans of Chinese descent, with a number of Japanese expats and a few Koreans, south Asians, etc.

We get about 98% single males and the rest, couples, mostly with female Dominant. We have never yet had a female sub come here on her own. We have an inquiry from one right now, but with the Net, it is hard to really tell who is on the other end of the email. Could be a green Arcturan bubble-butt for all I know. Goddam illegal aliens!

By Don_Walsh on Friday, February 01, 2002 - 12:52 am: Edit

Destiny:

1. We don't take local (Thai) subs, all our subs are from outside Thailand, save a small number of local expats.
2. Yes, the Dommes are all Thai women.
3. I tried training nightlife girls but they were hopeless. So I tried using straight (non nightlife) girls as recruits and they took to this like ducks to water.
4. I was here for 8-9 years before I started this.
5. Because of my background and previous business I have lots of top level connections with the military, police, political structure etc. No problems. Also, we don't MAKE problems -- nobody complains.

By Destiny on Friday, February 01, 2002 - 12:12 am: Edit

Now I'm home but was intrigued enough by the evolution of this thread to forego sleep and come back for more...

I'm curious Don, do you have Dommes only and are they locals or is that not common in the culture? Admittedly, I know nothing about Thai culture, but I don't ever recall seeing an Asian male interested. They loved the strippers but not the BDSM. I saw a couple female Asian dominants but not many considering. It's also very interesting about your starting a scene in a completely different country and having it grow. Did you already have friends there and it just became a word of mouth thing? Are the authorities awful? I understand if you don't want to get into it, just though I'd ask.

P.S. Verawench, after much consideration on the drive home, I must respectfully disagree with your contentntion that I was biting Don's ankles or that my good natured joke about Jade's Bastille Day release merited being my being called a "twit" and my comments "lame". After recently being lacerated by Anatomist's harsh comments about your writing (which I though was quite good), I would have hoped that you would be a little more temperate with your own words towards someone that never before uttered even the slightest disrespect towards you. Of course, I am keenly aware that I'm being overly sensitive and for this I apologize, but I've had a very rough day. However, sometimes I'm saddened how the anonymity of on-line culture so often strips us of the civilty we would show had we simply been strangers sharing a drink and having this discussion face to face. At least that's how I try to think of it while I am in this forum. Anyway, just wanted to get that off my chest before I go to sleep. Isn't that weird being the last thing I think about tonight?

By Don_Walsh on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 10:52 pm: Edit

Dom = male Top
Domme = female Top

I pronounce these the same, and in 30 years I never heard anyone pronounce them any other way. However as the Internet has sparked an explosion of the scene, it has created some pockets of relatively isolated lifestylers in remote places.

A guy applying for a session by phone and email here let is slip that he was from Shreveport, La. As I am from Nola, I thought I'd call the guy and say hail, fellow, well met. This backfired. After we chatted for a few minutes, and hung up, he emailed and cancelled, saying that this was obviously a queer trap. His reasoning?

I pronounced Dommes same as Doms. In his little group in Shreveport -- NOT the SM capitol of the world -- they called Doms Doms, and Dommes, 'Dom-mays' (phonetically, as if there was an accent on the end of Domme.

Well, I never...I have since learned that other filks in thes ticks call Dommes 'Dommees' (rhymes with bees).

Go figure!

By Destiny on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 10:03 pm: Edit

Yes, time to leave work. Good night all.

By Destiny on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 10:01 pm: Edit

Lots of the younger ones I met were strippers that just wanted out and still wanted to make at least a couple hundred a hour, hardly real "Dommes" but some ended up liking it and practiced it as an art. A few were junkies too, obviously quick money. Being in the music scene I saw many of those types but not always. I was always fascinated with the lifestyle Dommes, particularly while they were "on". A friend had some Russian subs working for him - very lovely.

By Verawench on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 09:46 pm: Edit

I have nothing against skinny white boys. Just lay off the lame jokes and don't bite Don's ankles. He'll kick you square in the jaw.

Good night, boys. It's midnight, wind is howling outside and the crimson bedsheets look oh so cozy and delicious...

By Destiny on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 09:39 pm: Edit

Vera, I do agree about your "cleaner perspective" comment. I found the lifestyle people to be more balanced than most of those that were just experimenting with something that they considered "taboo and dirty". The REALLY heavy stuff was just much for me, just too weird.

My ex and I lived together but she wasn't my Mistress, as I'm not really submissive. We had a large room as a basic dungeon for clients. But I did start to kinda get into it a little after a few clients saw me around and wanted a skinny white boy involved. It's a strange but exciting feeling smacking somene with a crop when they actually like it.

BTW, I've never really discussed or written about this so my spelling of "Dom" must obviously be incorrect. Thank you for allowing me to correct myself. (Geez, that sounded pretty submissive. Hey Don, need a male sub?)

By Don_Walsh on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 09:38 pm: Edit

You can chill, Destiny. I'll withdraw my remark as hasty.

I think Catherine gave herself the title, and no, there is no hierarchy on the pro side except how much money you make and how large and loyal your following is. Catherine had two dozen Dommes working for her at Velvet Underground, but she got tired of the personnel hassles and eventually pared her staff down to maybe 5.

On the lifestyle (non pro) side their are a number o competing wannabe hierarchies, of which about the only one worth a shit is the Old Guard, who are very hardcore.

Myself, I've been in the scene for 30+ years, but, never was much of a joiner. One of my friends was founder of Black Rose in D.C., they have come a long way in 12 years.

Anyway I moved out of the US 13 years ago, came here, found there was no scene, and eventually started the first Dungeon in South East Asia. We've been open 4 years, now starting Year 5, and have a following of 600+ from 100+ countries and a 70% repeat rate. Staff of five Dommes. One of my first Dommes, and not one of the best, split off and started her own House, but she's falling through her ample ass and strangling, down the street from us. Typical scene soap opera.

BTW don't let timk hear you say your Domme girlfriend paid the bills while you were together in L.A. -- he'd be inclined to dis you as a pimp same as he does me (he did so today) and you'd have to get in line behind me to rearrange his anatomy if he ever shows his face around me.

He doesn't seem to care that Dommes are not whores, but he's just an antierotic dweeb of a Brit and would be a virgin if he had a dick at all.

By Don_Walsh on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 09:22 pm: Edit

There are Dommes and there are Dommes and there are Dommes, Destiny's right about the spectrum. I've known teetotaler Dommes, alcoholic Dommes, junkie Dommes, non-smoker Dommes, vegetarian Dommes, and Dommes that chain smoke.

The Scene is all about control -- Dommes by definition are control freaks. Power exchange. The Dommes who can't control their own substance abuse, well, generally burn out early. Being a Top is a psychologically and emotionally draining, grueling profession; you see people in most peculiar ways and you can't degrade and humiliate people for long without ultimately paying a price for it in your own psyche.

Quite a few Dommes, in their private relationships, are either vanilla straight, or else they play on the bottom (i.e., as subs) with their ltr partner(s). Some are het, many are bi, some are lesbians. I know at least two western guys who live or lived with Japanese Dommes in Tokyo. In both cases, the women were totally vanilla at home. The poor guys WASNTED to be dominated -- but all they got was fuck and suck. Off with the fetishwear when they came home, on with the yukata (Japanese housecoat, summer kimono) and fuzzy pink slippers.

Like living in a candy store but being diabetic! Both guys came here to play, of course.

By Destiny on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 09:19 pm: Edit

I don't know about the leather. I have a small leftover roll of what I would call "patent" from some stuff that a sub made. Is was definitely leather on the underside but glassy and shiny like what I have always heard called "patent". I have a couple pairs of old school goth boots from Underground UK and they were called patent and my patent Docs were called "patent". The stuff at the PleasureChest in West Holywood was called patent too - definitely leather, maybe not the shiny surface but I don't make leather so I wouldn't know. I'd be interested in info if you're so inclined to educate.

By Destiny on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 09:09 pm: Edit

Not really sure what makes a person an "Arch Mistress" since I've never heard of a recognized heirarchy except to people in their own circles. But that's only my experience, the scene is big.
I heard the Russian mafia was getting into some stuff a while back. Scary.

That "Chateau guy" does sound like an ass and since the place is pretty much public he's just one variant of people in the "scene". Probably pays his money and come to the parties and tries to get laid. He may be a dick but that doesn't change the fact that he's one facet of the scene. You may know the old regulars, what can I say if I wasn't into it at 15? Since you're older than me I'm sure that you do have more experiences and names to drop but why did you start on me for just passing along a story about some chick I knew? It wasn't my ex and I didn't imply that it was the correct behavior of a lifestyle dominant.

And after all this you will still say I'm full of shit, right? You're hanging out with Mistress Catherine and that is normal and okay, but if I lived with a Dominant that is somehow unbelieveable?

Last I remember of the Chateau, Sir was trying to get some Exit to Eden thing going on an island, but I think his wife died. Did you ever hear anything about that?

By Don_Walsh on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 09:08 pm: Edit

BTW Destiny, are you sure you mean patent leather? Patent leather isn't leather. It's fake. We use real leathers - no patent.

By Verawench on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 09:06 pm: Edit

A good friend of mine in the S.F. area has been a Domme for about six years now. She doesn't as much as smoke or drink, much less drug herself or her subs. Nor has she ever lived with a client / submissive. She's been either married or in long term relationships.

Sophie's a fascinating character beyond her passion/profession. She's an amazing artist, writer, she drag races her eclipse, she made me a couple of lovely spiked leather collars and *grin* accessories.

To each his own. Furthermore, this is hardly a broad perspective, but it's an example that supports Don's much clearer understanding of the scene.

By Head_Prosthesis on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 08:53 pm: Edit

Someday the guys from work will bring me back a Viagra t-shirt from Pfizer, someday...

By Don_Walsh on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 08:48 pm: Edit

Try Arch Mistress Catherine, Velvet Underground. L.A. She's in Taos now, running a B&B, but she still scenes with old regulars. Was here for two weeks a while back, hanging out.

Formerly of Pandora's Box in NYC.

The last person who showed up here (at my Dungeon House in Bangkok) claiming affiliation with The Chateau (L.A.), tried to get the Dommes to take rohypnol while he took viagra. What an asshole. They didn't take the stupid rohypnol, and the viagra didn't work on him. Either it was bum viagra or, more likely, he's burned his cyclic GMP receptors out by taking too much of the shit for too long. Like I said -- an asshole.

By Destiny on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 08:29 pm: Edit

Easy guy! I said she did it with some people she would *date*, not clients. True subs always come back for more anyway - rememember, they're subs. The assholes that just want handjobs from a chick in leather are the one's that never come back.

Why would I make it up, like it's a big fucking big deal to live with a Dom? I was in a band, girlfriend paid the bills - typical stupid Hollywood story. Although it is a pretty big scene I never think I ever saw you Don (or perhaps I did?) Hung Jury? The Chateau? Lady Laura's? (before she died of course), or old Sinamatic before it became a tourist attraction. How about Bob from the old Chateau, you must know him if you were in the scene being that it's the only really legal place in the LA area. But that's all the public stuff anyway, right? When you're in LA, I'll introduce you to the 6' girl with the acid. Then you can decide if I'm full of shit.

People in the "scene" are just like anyone else. Some are into drugs, some not. Sensations come in many colors and flavors (corny absinthe reference omitted).

By Don_Walsh on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 07:55 pm: Edit

Any pro Domme in USA who gave her subs lsd would be a pariah in the scene within days. Scene people abhor drugs, even alcohol is pretty anathema at Dungeons. The scene is about sensation, and no one wants to dull, alter or moderate sensations.

So I think old Destiny is full of shit. Used to live with a Domme, huh? In your dreams.

By Brett on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 07:00 pm: Edit

I've got an original 1911 top hat, and an 1800s pocketwatch (1835, maybe or 1853? -broken sadly, and has been for several decades) around my house. The top hat is great, but showing a bit of wear.

By Destiny on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 06:53 pm: Edit

Not once she got done with them. Their prostate just popped out of their mouth.

By _Blackjack on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 06:28 pm: Edit


Quote:

This one chick loved to give her date acid and then do him with a strap-on! Can you imagine what that would be like for a straight guy?



Um, yes. What's your point? Even straight guys have prostates...

By _Blackjack on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 06:27 pm: Edit

Latex, leather, PVC. Each has its indiidual charms. Leather has that whole animalistic thing happening, but latex can do really neat things to the curves of a woman's body, and a girl in a PVC dress is like a tasty snack treat waiting to be unwrapped.

Velvet's awful nice too. And silk. My silk sheets fell victim to...excess enthusiasm, but they were NIIIICE...

By Destiny on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 06:01 pm: Edit

My ex was a Dominatrix and, after a while, I found myself taking particular interest in the lifestyle although I didn't really practice it myself. From what I saw, finances had very little to do with material choice; each was suited to a particular use. But the Doms I knew sure did love their patent leather. The rubber stuff was more what the submissives wore.

Oh the stories I could tell... This one chick loved to give her date acid and then do him with a strap-on! Can you imagine what that would be like for a straight guy?

By Don_Walsh on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 05:08 pm: Edit

Latex is impractical. Flammable, easily nicked and torn, dissolved by nitrite inhalants (use of which is closely associated with it anyway), stains easily, sticks to itself in storage, and really requires full time care and maintenance. Its main bastion of popularity is in the Europerv scene where those into Water & Power prize it for its waterproof qualities.

We prefer shiny black Leather. The best tradeoff for maintainability versus elegance. As Ricardo M used to say "Rich corinthian leather...and surprisingly affordable." Our House motto.

And pvc, well, is for the financially challenged who can't afford the above. It has a short usefyl life and gets all wrinkly.

By Verawench on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 04:52 pm: Edit

Is that something else made out of shiny black latex?

By Wolfgang on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 01:22 pm: Edit

Anywhere!? Wow, the time has come for you to visit the Big Mango and his absinthe cache in the jungle! ... Plus he surely has some services to recommand you that could replace your emotional pain by something else...

> insert huge grin <

By Destiny on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 01:19 pm: Edit

Yes yes yes, a BDSM fantasy! Don't forget the nipple clips.

By Baz on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 01:18 pm: Edit

That is the good part, I agree. I'm using it as a vacation, and I DO have airline tickets that I can trade to go anywhere in the world! Yea, Hell, this is great!

By Wolfgang on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 01:13 pm: Edit

Lucky you, now you'r in a position to set up the rules!

By Destiny on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 01:12 pm: Edit

Baz, be of good cheer for fortune has surely smiled on you! Not only do you get to let her "make it up to you", but then you get to destroy her in the end (if you want, of course!)

She'll never respect you unless you make her squirm...

>;-)

By Baz on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 12:55 pm: Edit

anyway, there are worse things in the world than heartbreak.

By Baz on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 12:43 pm: Edit

My wedding was just cancelled(two months before the date), I spent thousands on a honeymoon, and now the girl that cancelled it wants to get back together and try again. Morrigan, can you do worse than that?
Baz, trembling and waiting for a response...

By _Blackjack on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 12:35 pm: Edit

You mean trying to tittilate Morrigan? Sigh...that way lies heartbreak...

By Baz on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 12:30 pm: Edit

I like the direction this thread has taken...
FROCK COAT!

By _Blackjack on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 12:24 pm: Edit


Quote:

The mere mention of the word frock coat tittilates me beyond words...




Frock coat! Forck coat! Frock coat!

(I own several...)

By _Blackjack on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 12:23 pm: Edit

The curved hanle on canes serves a very imortant punction: it allows you to hook it over your arm so you can have both hands free. A straight cane, or one with a ornamental head, may be more elegant, but once you've USED a crook-head cane, you won't want to go back.

The hook is also handy for hapkido moves...

Also, for reasonably affordable frock-coats and othe Victorian wear, check out "old west" reenactment suppliers like WahMaker and C.O.W.S. Because cowboys are just Victorians with guns...

By Chevalier on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 11:36 am: Edit

Sword canes are fun. A family member had a cane with a stiletto. Sharp, too.

By Wolfgang on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 11:35 am: Edit

Do a search for flask cane on ebay, there's tons of it...

By Wolfgang on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 11:30 am: Edit

PV.: Yes, that kind of cane. The only reason why I didn't succumb to the tentation was that it had a curved pommel. I would prefer a straight cane with a silver pommel. A silver wolf head would be perfect.

By Chevalier on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 11:22 am: Edit

Vintage Edwardian and '20s frock coats used to be easy to find in San Francisco; back in the mid-1980s, American Rag Cie carried a bunch. What's disturbing is that the coats (and other items of pre-WWII clothing) were imported from West (and East?) Germany; I always wondered whether some Germans had discovered Nazi-era warehouses filled with clothing from Holocaust victims.

By Wolfgang on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 11:15 am: Edit

Corset designers from Montreal:
Ritual design

Most of the pics features the designers themselves Karen and Sarah. We can see them live, wearing their own creations almost every week in the local goth clubs in Montreal. Thay also had a booth at the NewYork Convergence last year and will be selling their stuff this year at the Montreal Convergence. They also sells some things on ebay.

Not personal friends of mine but the gothic/fetish crowd is soo small in Montreal that everybody knows everybody at least from sight. Great clothes, great models.

By Verawench on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 11:05 am: Edit

Anyone see that little flick on A&E "The Magnificent Ambersons" with Jonathan Rhys Meyers and Madeleine Stowe? The two of them in incestuous embraces.. talk about tittilating.

By Morriganlefey on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 10:44 am: Edit

The mere mention of the word frock coat tittilates me beyond words...

*sigh*
- M

By Verawench on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 10:02 am: Edit

Or a good corset.. sigh... damn things run upwards of $300.

By Webfly on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 09:40 am: Edit

I'd settle for a good frock

By Perruche_Verte on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 09:34 am: Edit

"system cane"?

You mean, one of those canes with the secret flask built into it? I've always wanted one.

By Baz on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 09:28 am: Edit

I agree with wolfgang. Top hats, capes, frock coats, sounds good to me. I'm lousy with fashion or even picking a noose that matches my shirt. I'm going bald. Cover all that with a frock and hat and I might look good again. Or for the first time.

By Cheri on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 07:46 am: Edit

Say what?????

By Wolfgang on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 07:41 am: Edit

I would love to wear a top hat and the new frock coat is definitely for next winter. Original clothes are expensives and I spend too much on absinthe... I almost put a bet one the system cane on ebay... It would have been great for those lonely winter night walks.

By Rimbaud on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 12:22 am: Edit

No. It will louche to an opalescent pale green, and men will start wearing top hats and frock coats again. If only...

~21st Century Rimbaud

By Destiny on Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 12:00 am: Edit

I was just wondering what things will be like after the Jades are released. Will everyone just sit around drinking and loving each other? Will there be flames about which one is better? Just think, no more friendly/no-so-friendly wise cracks about the long delay. No more begging for samples.

Will the world just turn grey?

Administrator's Control Panel -- Board Moderators Only
Administer Page |Delete Conversation |Close Conversation |Move Conversation