Donster,

Sepulchritude Forum: The Absinthe Forum Archive Thru March 2002: Archive thru February 2002:Donster,
By Admin on Monday, February 25, 2002 - 11:12 am: Edit

This thread will be closed due to size ...

By Pablo on Monday, February 25, 2002 - 12:08 am: Edit

"On the other hand I doubt that quick web researches will do journalism any good... "

OK. Maybe I should explain. No one, even among the mentally challenged that I work with, uses the internet as a primary source.
But as a start or when you have no idea where to start looking for info, the internet is irreplaceable.
Police and other gov't agencies post their press releases on their web pages, and some have (almost) real time police logs showing what is going on and where.
The same goes for everything else. All large companies have web site with product info, company history etc...
But its nice to have some idea of what the fuck you are talking about before bringing it to the research dept.
(and people do make their own web pages and try and get us to do stories on this or that. it usually involves stocks or some bullshit pyramid scam, and its usually pretty obvious.)

By Etienne on Saturday, February 23, 2002 - 05:21 pm: Edit

Yes, I know. ;-)

By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 23, 2002 - 12:18 pm: Edit

Eye H8 aol.

By Mvario on Friday, February 22, 2002 - 11:45 pm: Edit

and Quantum Link went on to change their name to...

America Online.

And then they connected to the Internet and all hell broke loose.

By Thegreenimp on Friday, February 22, 2002 - 04:22 pm: Edit

The Old Commodore online service was Quantum Link.
Jay an old Commodore 64 0wner 20 years ago.

By Mr_Rabid on Friday, February 22, 2002 - 12:54 pm: Edit

It's much easier to find bullshit now.

You can invent truth too. I could code a respectable looking website in 15 minutes and put a story on there. I could date that story two years ago.

Repeat. Register sites with search engines.

Get reporter you are not affiliated with interested in story. Let him run search.

"It must be true- I seen it on the web!"

I sometimes wonder how often this actually happens...

By Heiko on Friday, February 22, 2002 - 08:21 am: Edit

"I wonder how people got info before the internet? It has certinaly changed the way journalists work."

I wonder what I would do without internet shopping. No absinthe, no fancy computer parts. I'd have to spend so much time searching stores for stuff...

On the other hand I doubt that quick web researches will do journalism any good...

By Baz on Friday, February 22, 2002 - 06:34 am: Edit

I had a commodore 64 (heh heh) remember those?
There used to be a company that you could sial up on your modem and play games, get news, etc. That was in the late '80's. Used to be advertised in all the computer mags. Does anybody know the name of that company? It's driving me crazy!!!

By Wolfgang on Friday, February 22, 2002 - 05:34 am: Edit

...and once you finally found a nice girl to shag, you usually stay hooked to this damn screen and she starts complaining...

Another option is to shag her while you'r (or she's) on the web...

By Pablo on Friday, February 22, 2002 - 01:16 am: Edit

I wonder how people got info before the internet? It has certinaly changed the way journalists work. Research takes half the time, and the rest of the time: internet porn!

p.s. since I dont have a high speed internet connection at home (and Im too spoiled to use the 56k) I still do spend my free time looking for girls to shag.

By Lordhobgoblin on Friday, February 22, 2002 - 01:02 am: Edit

And I had me a Sinclair Spectrum over 20 years ago (I've still got it and it still works). But there was only so much Manic Miner you could play and I doubt that any but the saddest of individuals would have sat and jerked himself off to it.

Hobgoblin

By Mr_Rabid on Thursday, February 21, 2002 - 03:42 pm: Edit

"if 20 years ago the average home had computers and video games, the kids would react the same way they do today. The kids I know play video games *and* play water polo, soccer etc. "

I had me an Atari 2600 about 20 years ago.

And the above is correct.

By Timk on Thursday, February 21, 2002 - 02:48 pm: Edit

"ver-weight men with defective eyesight and over-developed right (or sometimes left) hand muscles."

Hey!

By Lordhobgoblin on Thursday, February 21, 2002 - 12:52 pm: Edit

Pablo,

"How did kids 25 years ago get porn? (poor deprived bastards)"

We spent our time out and about looking for a tasty young lady to shag.

It seems the future of mankind is to have a lot of over-weight men with defective eyesight and over-developed right (or sometimes left) hand muscles.

Hobgoblin

By Timk on Thursday, February 21, 2002 - 11:50 am: Edit

A guy was in contact with me who got a drained bottle of edouard pernod from an old lady he worked for in the sixties, she told him she had drained it when absinthe became illegal in the twenties

By Admin on Thursday, February 21, 2002 - 11:19 am: Edit

I was just reading "The Last Madam" which is about prostitution and brothels in early 20th century New Orleans. It is a biography of Norma Wallace, who ran a brothel in the French Quarter for 40 years and she clearly states that she was serving Absinthe up until the 1930's. Unfortunately no brands were mentioned.

It's a great book, by the way. Not terrifically written, but a fascinating and vigorous subject.

By Don_Walsh on Thursday, February 21, 2002 - 11:02 am: Edit

Absinthe was VERY popular in New Orleans, that much is clear, and there are indications that it was not unheard of in NY, SF, even Alaska.

The 1912 prohibition of absinthe was just as ineffective as the 1918 prohibition of everything alcoholic. It is ironic that the repeal of prohibition did nothing for absinthe in USA.

By Tabreaux on Thursday, February 21, 2002 - 07:52 am: Edit

"...some legendre company information states that all thet they did to avoid the restrictions on absinthe was to name their product herbsaint wihthout reformulation, this may have been true in the beginning."

FWIW, early Herbsaint (120 proof) tastes remarkably similar to better vintage absinthes. If I were told that the early formulation was simply renamed with no other changes, I would have no trouble believing it.

I have both 120 and 100 proof samples (from different years) undergoing testing.

By Tabreaux on Thursday, February 21, 2002 - 07:48 am: Edit

What is causing confusion here is usage of the name "Herbsaint". This term was not used until after the ban, although it is sometimes used loosely in conversation to reference the earlier Legendre Absinthe. Herbsaint is and was a liqueur d'anise, not pastis.

The forthcoming Jade product in question is not intended to be a true facsimile of anything, but is based on a pre-ban product. It is indeed a true absinthe. When the website is made public, the product description will tell all.

By Timk on Thursday, February 21, 2002 - 07:46 am: Edit

Information on the banning of absinthe in the USA is sketchy, some legendre company information states that all thet they did to avoid the restrictions on absinthe was to name their product herbsaint wihthout reformulation, this may have been true in the beginning. I am not too sure how popular absinthe was in America, nor how the ban was enacted - how was it worded, did it ban the use of attemesia absinthium, or just the use of the name absinthe? Now, aparently regulations prohibit wormwood as a food additive, but back then, was this the case?

By Terminus on Thursday, February 21, 2002 - 06:16 am: Edit

This question is for Ted:

If one of the Jade products is based on Herbsaint, does that facsimile Jade product contain absinthium?

It seems that the Herbsaint brand was manufactured after prohibition sans absinthium because of the ban. Herbsaint was always a pastis.

By Sicboy13 on Wednesday, February 20, 2002 - 06:11 pm: Edit

I can't talk to my mutha soo I taawlk to ma diaaary!

By Pablo on Wednesday, February 20, 2002 - 12:01 am: Edit

Gonna need those TPS reports too

By Elbongo on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 08:33 pm: Edit

I can make it in on Saturday, but Mr. Hat is busy.

By Sicboy13 on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 08:09 pm: Edit

Yeah...if you could go ahead and come in on Saturday...that would be greeeaaat...mmmm-kay?

By Heiko on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 09:11 am: Edit

I just learned some rules for writing a short essay that everybody will read and understand:

Write an intro that states clearly what you are going to say in the following paragraphs. For the best effect take three good arguments and explain these in three paragraphs. Keep it as short as possible. Only say what really needs to be said.

Terminus follows his own rules: Leave it totally unclear what your point is. Repeat one bad argument as often as possible until it becomes valid. Insert page-long out of context (what context anyways?) quotes to further confuse your reader...

By Don_Walsh on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 08:41 am: Edit

Fucking boring, is Terminus.

And a needle-dicked bug-fucker to boot.

By Wolfgang on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 08:34 am: Edit

I`m proud to say I didn`t wasted my time reading this overly long post...

By Pablo on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 04:24 am: Edit

Trust me Terminus, if I could, I would.

(And dude, you put waaaaay too much effort in that response.)

By _Blackjack on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 04:23 am: Edit

Enter Terminus, spewing.

Man, nobody cares.

By Terminus on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 04:17 am: Edit

Pablo> As Don would say, go fuck yourself. :)

"By Fat_Bastard on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 07:14 am: Edit

Petermarc, Terminus never heard of real Herbsaint absinthe, and obviously never heard of machine made pre-ban
Pernod Fils absinthe bottles, either.

Terminus thy name be Ignorance.

But, Petermarc, don't expect much tf the Troll. He is not creative. He is a repeater of other people's remarks and a
cut & paste critic. His major accomplishment was to find a draft Privacy Statement on my unregistered (with
search engines) website and divine from it the bank where (he thinks) our account will be. How did he find this
elusive document? By looking at my email address. How hypercephalic!

Not a real super sleuth is our Terminus.
.
.
.
.
By Fat_Bastard on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 03:17 am: Edit


Be careful, Pablo, Terminus is a computer security 'expert' and a master at hiding behind anonymous proxies. In
fact he is a cartoon character named Fred Flinstonr, and you know what a pain in the ass those toons can be --
remember WHO KILLED ROGER RABBIT?

-- Don, mixing up some "Dip".

Actually, if Terminus was not so intellectually lame, I'd suspect he was Artemis. However, Artemis isn't that
flat-line, unless he has been taking Stupid pills.
.
.
.
.
.
By Fat_Bastard on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 06:40 am: Edit


In other words, Georg, I said "Terminus shares Artemis' love of privacy (anonymous proxies) and claim to expertise
in computer security. I have good reason to believe that Artemis' claim is legitimate; none for Terminis. Artemis is
intelligent; Terminus is an asshole. So, superficially, Terminus resembles a lobotomized Artemis. Artemis would never
likely stake out such stupid positions.

End of story."
.
.
.
.
Do you know what they say about boys fascinated with guns, Don? They have little dicks. You must be a fucking weapons expert.
.
.
.
As for "pre-ban" Herbsaint:

"By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 07:14 am: Edit

Petermarc, Terminus never heard of real Herbsaint absinthe, and obviously never
heard of machine made pre-ban Pernod Fils absinthe bottles, either.

Terminus thy name be Ignorance."
.
.
.
The hand-blown bottle issue is moot, since you are supposedly "re-creating" brands from different time periods... Edouard Pernod, Berger, etc., and the bottles would differ anyway.

But why are you only mentioning Pernod Fils? Regarding Herbsaint absinthe, here's some stuff copied from old posts.

Ted's post at the bottom is noteworthy (compare and contrast):

"By Oxygenee on Friday, February 16, 2001 - 11:57 pm: Edit


The earliest Herbsaint bottles, if the information from the Legendre Company is
correct, date from the early 1930's. The first bottles are 120% proof - this was
soon reduced to 100%.

By Tabreaux on Monday, January 21, 2002 - 12:56 pm: Edit


As far as I know, absinthe was imported here for quite some time, and I have
seen only a couple of bottles marked 'Legendre Absinthe'. What I've done is base
one of Jade's products from some early specifics of the Legendre efforts. The
result was distinctive enough such that I decided to commercialize it with a
'twist'. This is clearly spelled out in the product description (not yet
visible), so there is no use splitting hairs on this one.

Regardless, the early Herbsaint bottles I have and have seen are almost
certainly post ban. FWIW, they are markedly different in content than modern
pastis, or modern Herbsaint for that matter, having far more in common with the
flavor and texture of old fine absinthes, and are 120 proof to boot.

By Tabreaux on Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 09:26 am: Edit


The name "Herbsaint" appeared after the ban. It seems as though absinthe was
available here for a time after the ban. From what I can find, I don't think the
ban actually became effective until prohibition (around 1920). The Legendre Co.
initially imported absinthe, than made their own liqueur. The Legendre Co. was just one firm.


By Oxygenee on Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 04:19 am: Edit


The "perceived wisdom" as I have always understood it is that absinthe was
manufactured by the Legendre Company in New Orleans at the turn of the century,
and then later redeveloped as Herbsaint after around 1915.

Intrigued by Phil's bottle, which is called "Absinthe" although apparently
dating from 1934, and by a few other old Herbsaint bottles I've managed to pick
up, I contacted the Sazerac Company, who aquired Legendre in the 1940's and own
the rights to Herbsaint.

Sadly, they don't have a secret cache of 19th century bottles mouldering in the
company cellar, but they were most interested to see photos of the early
bottles, and more importantly they forwarded me a detailed corporate history.
Suprisingly, this seems to indicate that Legendre made absinthe or pastis for
the first time in the early twenties, during prohibition, after one of the
original partners had learnt the recipes while lodging with a Marsellaise pastis
maker during the war.

The implication is that the Herbsaint brand only officially began after
prohibition in 1933, which would make the early minature bottles Ted, myself and
others have found quite a bit more recent that was previously thought - perhaps
late 1930's or 40's.

The interesting question then is of course: if Legendre didnt make absinthe in
NO at the turn of the century, did anyone?

By tabreaux on Friday, June 30, 2000 - 09:09 pm: Edit


I found and bought a small bottle of antique Herbsaint absinthe. It is the only
one I've ever seen. Once again, old absinthe has somehow found me, and the
contents of the bottle (2/3 full) are very well preserved. I had a taste of it,
and let's just say that old Herbsaint absinthe and modern Herbsaint have nothing
in common but the name. The Herbsaint absinthe has a wonderful flavor."

By _Blackjack on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 03:15 am: Edit

Really. I don't know what I did for stroke material before the internet. I seem to recall it involved Kitty Pryde from the X-Men...

And the cool thing is, the market for porn is so big, you can bet NICHE porn. I mean, the blonde plastic things in most porn do nothing for me, but, thanks to the wonders of technology, I can find all the pictures of wierd tattooed pale chicks I could ever want.

God bless technology!

By Pablo on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 01:28 am: Edit

How did kids 25 years ago get porn?

(poor deprived bastards)

By Lordhobgoblin on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 11:54 pm: Edit

Destiny,

Sure, if 25 years ago when I was a kid I had a computer with games I'd have been glued to it. But I didn't so I amused myself in more productive ways.

When I was a kid we were active. Nowadays when I take kids out for game (I'm a teacher) they all moan about the cold and moan about a bit of light drizzle. (We don't even take then out if it rains properly for God's sake, we used to be taken out in all weathers). They moan that the mud is making their trainers dirty, only the exception is willing to dive for the ball (if playing in goal) or slide tackle, or do anything that might involve getting a bit muddy. With the ocassional exception, they're a bunch of un-healthy, un-fit, (and usually over-weight) wimps. I blame technology and also their parents for letting them become ensalved to this technology.

Hobgoblin

By Destiny on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 09:10 pm: Edit

Goblin, I see your point but, if 20 years ago the average home had computers and video games, the kids would react the same way they do today. The kids I know play video games *and* play water polo, soccer etc.

To be perfectly honest, I was much happier before I got into the computer field. I almost resent having to have a computer in my home - but free porn does help ease the pain.

By Lordhobgoblin on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 11:27 am: Edit

Destiny,

So you don't think that technology is contributing to creating a generation of over-weight PC-potato kids lacking in social skills? You think it is human laziness?

Well when I speak to kids today and find out what they did over their weekends, what do most of them do? They sit in front of their PCs playing video games, or they sit flicking through cable TV channells.

What did kids do 20 years ago? They played outdoors with their friends. They kicked football, climbed trees, played cowboys and indians etc etc. They did active things.

Why is it today that children are lazy? Because they have a lot of fancy technology, so they play with this technology, sit on their arses and get fat.

Hobgoblin
(I blame the parents.)

By Lordhobgoblin on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 11:20 am: Edit

Heiko,

"But that doesn't mean it's totally unnecessary."

Sure it's not totally unnecessary but neither is it essential. Just 10-15 years ago most medium sized companies in the UK were lucky to possess 1 computer, now there's 1 on every desk. Now whenever a computer crashes you'd think the whole world was collapsing.

Technology is at best a tool that can help us a little bit. It is our own stupidity that causes us to become dependant on it and falsely believe it is essential.

Hobgoblin

By Sicboy13 on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 11:04 am: Edit

Back to the credit card thing...I work for a major credit card entity, and they are the safest way, I feel to make purchases online because of the 100% guarantees on fraud, consumer rights, etc.

By Larsbogart on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 09:27 am: Edit

Well that, and I still have both hands and all my fingers. Reading William Burroughs, he never capitalized anything other than his name on those paintings he shot to death.
Is it Gustav or Gustaf or both?
larsbogart

By Don_Walsh on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 08:36 am: Edit

Oh, come on. Don't you reckon the King;s name is worth capitalizing the first letters -- even if you are a Dane?

I'm just a Cambro-Norman descendant, so, I really have no dog in this fight, non-fight, whatever.

By Larsbogart on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 08:16 am: Edit

the HOTEL carl gustav is a great place to have a drink. even better to have dinner and spend the weekend.

By Don_Walsh on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 07:18 am: Edit

As always you are a brilliant and perceptive individual and a credit to the race of King Carl Gustaf.

(You know how fond I am of Swedish small arms. The Ljungmann AG42B 6.5mm was very influential on my mentor Gene Stoner's most succesful design.)

I also have a lot of Swedish clientele...

By Luger on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 06:59 am: Edit

Ah! Ah!

I'll simply put the blame on my inferior understanding of English. Sometimes I get it wrong.


All is well!!!


Luger

By Don_Walsh on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 06:40 am: Edit

In other words, Georg, I said "Terminus shares Artemis' love of privacy (anonymous proxies) and claim to expertise in computer security. I have good reason to believe that Artemis' claim is legitimate; none for Terminis. Artemis is intelligent; Terminus is an asshole. So, superficially, Terminus resembles a lobotomized Artemis. Artemis would never likely stake out such stupid positions.

End of story.

By Don_Walsh on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 06:12 am: Edit

Artemis was my friend and confidant for years.

I haven't said anything is 'wrong' with him.

Surely you of all people would not wish me to?

You are also my friend and confidant.

By Luger on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 04:57 am: Edit

"unless he has been taking Stupid pills. "

So what's wrong with him?
He was the best guy on the Forum.

By Pablo on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 04:04 am: Edit

I know! I allready disconnected my computer and cancelled my credit cards! And the vacation in the town of Bedrock is off.

(oh, wait, how am I writing this?)

By Don_Walsh on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 03:17 am: Edit

Be careful, Pablo, Terminus is a computer security 'expert' and a master at hiding behind anonymous proxies. In fact he is a cartoon character named Fred Flinstonr, and you know what a pain in the ass those toons can be -- remember WHO KILLED ROGER RABBIT?

-- Don, mixing up some "Dip".

Actually, if Terminus was not so intellectually lame, I'd suspect he was Artemis. However, Artemis isn't that flat-line, unless he has been taking Stupid pills.

By Pablo on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 03:10 am: Edit

Oh shit! Now that you let the cat outta the bag, they have to kill you! And everyone who has read it!

(pablo going on the lamb)

By _Blackjack on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 01:29 am: Edit

Obviously Radio Shack is just a front for the NSA, gathering information and selling cheap stereo cables with hidden microphones...

By Pablo on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 12:44 am: Edit

I have had my credit card info stolen once. Someone ran up a $1500 bill. I just called the company, and they changed the number. I didn't have to pay for any of it. Maybe I'm naive, but I use my credit cards for 2 reasons: on-line purchases and emergencies. Havn't had a problem yet.

And Terminus, why are you still here? I don't see alot of people changing their opinions about Don from your arguments.
Im a newcomer to the forum. Like many I came here to learn. Weather or not I agree with Don, he at least has alot of constructive and useful info that he is always willing to share. I have not seen one useful or even entertaining post come from you.

Get a fucking life. Go bug teenagers on a Brittny Spears chat room or something.

By Louched_Liver on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 10:12 pm: Edit

And all the crap I get from Radio Shack is mailed to "Current Occupant". So why the dance when I check out?

By _Blackjack on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 09:59 pm: Edit

Radio Shack has done that forever, tho. I remember it when I was a kid.

By Perruche_Verte on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 07:49 pm: Edit

Radio Shack is terrible that way; they want your name and address so they can send you crap in the mail. When I go to Radio Shack I'm "John Doe." The clerks understand; they resent having to type all that stuff.

By Marccampbell on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 06:31 pm: Edit

blackjack, agreed.

I went to Radio Shack to buy a 69 cent battery.
The cashier asked for my name and address. It took the cashier 2 or 3 minutes to enter all the information. When the receipt was spat out it was two pages long. All for a fuckin' battery. What happened to a simple cash register. Ring it up, hand the customer his change. Transaction complete in 30 seconds.

By _Blackjack on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 03:33 pm: Edit

I once defined technlogy as "the art of going to a great deal of trouble to avoid a little bit of efort..."

By _Blackjack on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 03:32 pm: Edit

I'm always amused when I see those "the world of tomorrow"-type films from the '50's, where they decalre that labor-saving devices will eventually lead to a 15-hour work-week. The prblem being, of course, thatall they did is make people expect everyone to do MORE work in the same amount of time.

I also like the assumption that, once housework was eliminated by technology, women would be free to just sit around all day...

By Destiny on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 11:40 am: Edit

>> "As for information technology's effect on the next generation, we are creating a breed of overweight couch-potatoes (or rather PC-potatoes), lacking in social skills and imagination. We have technology to thank for this."

I must disagree Goblin. I think that we have lazy human being to thank for this. I particularly disagree that threre is a lack of creativity - lots of creativity is definitely there. If anything is destroying creativiy it's the big corporate mergers that gobble up everything that might even potentially generate a dollar. What are there now, like three giant record labels that own practically everything? Technology is the only chance that these independant labels have to make a creative difference.

Also, I have saved hundreds if not thousands of dollars because I can order stuff on-line rather than being subjected to local pricing and taxes.

By Heiko on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 10:52 am: Edit

quote{Did people not do business before it existed? How much time is wasted in business by individuals going through hundreds(or more) of e-mails each day? People say "My business couldn't do without e-mail", bollocks, if e-mail didn't exist you'd be doing just fine. It's the fact that others have e-mail that makes it 'necessary'.}

The same applies for telephones and even postal services. Or cars. Or planes.
We only need that stuff because it's there and other people are using it. But that doesn't mean it's totally unnecessary.

Only a few hundred years ago, a travel from where I live to Berlin was an arduous task and took very very long. Now Berlin is just like next door and I can communicate in real time with people on the other side of the globe. Is it necessary? Well, only food and water is "necessary"...

By Lordhobgoblin on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 08:25 am: Edit

True. Communication technology is a useful tool for passing bits of information back and forward but that's as far as it goes. I'm not a complete luddite but I do think things have gone far enough (perhaps just a shade too far). Is all this communications technology really all that necessary?

Did people not do business before it existed? How much time is wasted in business by individuals going through hundreds (or more) of e-mails each day? People say "My business couldn't do without e-mail", bollocks, if e-mail didn't exist you'd be doing just fine. It's the fact that others have e-mail that makes it 'necessary'. It's the communications technology that causes this problem in the first place and then conveniently offers itself as a solution. Who benefits from all this? The likes of Bill Gates that's who.

Also on a personal level I totally agree with you. I too am a very different person than I appear on e-mail and bulletin boards. I belong to another newsgroup connecting members of a small UK club. I know everyone on the newsgroup very well in person. One guy (an ex-army Sgt Major) whom in person I get on extremely well with but on e-mail its like we're bitter enemies attacking each other and the e-mail conversations never start out with that end in mind.

There is no substitute for looking into the whites of a person's eyes to know what he means. I spent 12 years in sales and marketing to know that people need to deal with other people in person and any deal tied up via phone or e-mail is likely to end up as a 'dog's breakfast'.

As for information technology's effect on the next generation, we are creating a breed of overweight couch-potatoes (or rather PC-potatoes), lacking in social skills and imagination. We have technology to thank for this.

Hobgoblin

By Don_Walsh on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 04:18 am: Edit

Technology has its pros and cons. Always has had. But don't be a Luddite and suggest marching backwards.

Neither of my businesses could exist in their present practical and cost effective forms without PCs and the Internet.

Direct interaction has its advantages. All of the gatherings Ted has organized have been very positive personal experiences for him and for others and that has nothing to do with the business side. However, most of those one to one relationships would never have happened had the people not know each other from this forum.

I have welcomed four people from the forum into my home and regretted none of the experiences. (Ted, Robert (Midas), Jonathan (Carfax), and James Gordon). None of that would have happened without the forum, the Net and PCs.

I do understand the down side. In person I'm a lovable rogue, raconteur, and genial host. On the forum -- and not just this one or about absinthe -- I come across all wrong, because email or posts don't communicate tone of voice or inflection or humor or sarcasm or sincerity well, or at all. It's like the silent screen stars who failed the transformation to talkies, because they had squeaky voices or lisps, or whatever. It's an effect of the medium. Emoticons are a clumsy attempt to address this (but fail miserably.)

By Lordhobgoblin on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 03:59 am: Edit

I'd much prefer to meet people from this forum in person anyday. Communication technology is no substitute for true interaction between human beings.

Where I have a choice I'll always ditch communication technology. It doesn't present us with a positive future, it takes away part of our humanity, makes us more isolated, more self-centred and less able to empathise with our fellow man.

Technology will not make us happier or more content. It will not result in us having more fullfilling lives. We are all being conned by the likes of Bill Gates. We are now creating a generation of kids who are over-weight (from too much time stuck in front of the PC rather than doing something healthy instead), lacking in social skills (from lack of interaction with other kids) and losing the ability to empathise with other human beings. What sort of adults will they turn into? We are creating a monster.

Hobgoblin

By Don_Walsh on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 03:26 am: Edit

Maybe because you're angry and paranoid absinthe fiends?

By Louched_Liver on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 03:20 am: Edit

Hobgoblin
"(Fuck 'communications' technology, let's get back to interacting in person)"

So, no more Forum?

By Lordhobgoblin on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 01:29 am: Edit

Then why if its so bloody safe doing business on-line are so many of us reluctant to do so?

Personally before I entrust someone with my credit card details etc., I like to look into the whites of their eyes first. I wouldn't hand my credit card over to some dodgy looking geyser selling cd's at a market stall. Why? Because 'I don't like the look of him' and as a result wouldn't trust him and wouldn't risk giving him my credit card, but I would be unconcerned about paying him in cash.

I can't see what anyone looks like over the net. I don't like using my credit card over the net because I can't see the person to look at him and speak to him to make a judgement before taking a risk.

For me making purchases (as was doing business before I became a teacher)is about interacting with other human beings (I also much prefer to buy from shops etc. than mail order anyway). It's about people and sending your details down the line to some 'faceless buch of electrons deviod of human personality' does just not feel very comfortable.

Hobgoblin
(Fuck 'communications' technology, let's get back to interacting in person)

By Destiny on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 10:05 pm: Edit

Agreed, Blackjack. I won't even use a credit card unless I absolutely have to.

By _Blackjack on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 04:46 pm: Edit

The vast majority of credit-card farud comes from face-to-face transactions and people raiding your mail or garbage. There is nothing keeping a waiter from making an extra carbon of your card when youre not looking, and people throw away sales reciepts without even thinking about it. This is especially dangerous for purchases made with a debit card, since that gives the thief acess toy your bank account, and, while your bank may limit your liability, they aren't under the same requirements that they are with credit cards.

And, quite honestly, anyone to whom you have ever written a check has enough information to empty out your account, especially since banks don't check signatures.

So using your credit-card on a ecured web site is certainly not more risky than things people do every day. Probably significantly less risky. You are more likely to have somebody with a scanner eavesdrop on your cordless phone and get the number than have somebody hack an SSL transaction or a server.

That said, I am less comfortable with systems which keep your card number on file, simply because those HAVE been hacked, albeit not nearly as often as more mundane forms of swiping your number.

By Destiny on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 04:35 pm: Edit

Don is absolutely right, using a credit card is very safe. Of course, no computer at all is completely safe unless it's unpluggd from he network, powered off and has had it's drives pulled. If anythng happens with a credit card, you may have to bother with a formal dispute letter but you won't lose your money.

Just to limit potential hassles, I have a credit card with a self-imposed low credit limit that I use exclusively for on-line purchases.

By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 07:14 am: Edit

Petermarc, Terminus never heard of real Herbsaint absinthe, and obviously never heard of machine made pre-ban Pernod Fils absinthe bottles, either.

Terminus thy name be Ignorance.

But, Petermarc, don't expect much tf the Troll. He is not creative. He is a repeater of other people's remarks and a cut & paste critic. His major accomplishment was to find a draft Privacy Statement on my unregistered (with search engines) website and divine from it the bank where (he thinks) our account will be. How did he find this elusive document? By looking at my email address. How hypercephalic!

Not a real super sleuth is our Terminus.

By Lordhobgoblin on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 03:50 am: Edit

Maybe I'm old-fashioned but my worry is that (regardless of my legal rights) some crook (I tend to be more worried about parties other than the vendor) will get hold of my Credit Card details and use it. Personally I'd rather risk sending cash in the post (although very few vendors accept this) as at least then there is a finite limit on what can be stolen from me.

Hobgoblin
(Thanks for the Buddhist info Don)

By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 01:07 am: Edit

Actually, credit card holders have significant rights and protections.

Basically, any transaction not involving a signed sales slip and a hard swipe (through a card reading POS terminal) is easy to challenge.

Sellers need to have proof of shipment and delivery to protect themselves from charge backs.

PAYPAL indemnifies sellers against claims when they can prove shipment (not delivery) to registered Paypal address, and attempts to intimidate buyers into giving up their legal rights under their cardholder agreements. This does not fly. In my case, Paypal lost and was left holding the bag for $375. Fuck 'em. The card company merely insisted that I return the garbage microscope to the seller at the onset of the dispute. This was done, and I have proof of delivery of the returned item.

By Lordhobgoblin on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 12:59 am: Edit

'O the joy of sending cash through the mail. Is it just me, or doesn't it feel awful from the moment the envelope enters the slot?'

Yes but a hell of a lot less worrying than entering your credit card number on the web and then pressing 'send'. At least with sending cash in the post the maximum amount of money you can possibly lose is the amount of cash you put in the envelope.

Hobgoblin

By Don_Walsh on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 06:59 pm: Edit

Paypal sucks, protects sellers but not buyers. I was ripped off for $375 by a microscope seller on eBay, sent me a misdescribed illpacked pile of worthless junk. But because he sent it to the registered Paypal address, Paypal would not help.

The credit card company broke it off in Paypal's ass anyway, charged back 100%. Took 90 days to resolve.

Read their User Agreement. SUCKS.

Never use Paypal!

By Pikkle on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 06:40 pm: Edit

Shit... Akron... Federal witness relocation capitol of the midwest and there's no problem getting absinthe... hell of a fine town I suppose then... Don, I'm coming to Bangkok and we're golfing goddammit!!!

By Destiny on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 06:23 pm: Edit

I wonder if any governmental inquiries into PayPal are out of concern for the customers or because the banking industry is losing market or not getting its share of the pie?

By Don_Walsh on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 06:12 pm: Edit

Last time I looked no passport control required for Akron.

By Pikkle on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 06:06 pm: Edit

What about in Akron? Can I get my green swill there too?

By Don_Walsh on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 05:42 pm: Edit

PS for Australia and New Zealand pls consult Frater Carfax. Short answer is that absinthe is not illegal in ANZ but at the moment there are some importation issues being resolved due to conflicting Customs regulations.

By Don_Walsh on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 05:38 pm: Edit

Is absinthe an "illegal (in most of the world) product"??

NO.

1. Absinthe is LEGAL in the European Union and every member state of the EU has already, or is in the process of, regularizing their local laws to comply with the EU law. France has already done so.

2. Absinthe was never illegal on the UK, Spain, or Portugal anyway.

3. Absinthe is legal in British Columbia and other Canadian provinces may soon follow.

4. Absinthe's alleged 'illegality' in the US is much exxagerated. It is not illegal to possess. It is not a 'drug'. Thujone amd oil of wormwood are normal articles of commerce and freely imported, manufactured and sold without restriction. So is wormwood herb. There is an illogical archaic FDA issue about absinthe and thujone.

5. Contrary to your ridiculous statement, MOST OF THE WORLD not only does not ban absinthe, but doesn't even know what it is, never heard of it.

6. MOST OF THE PLACES where absinthe ONCE was 'illegal' now allow it.

7. France, the most vociferous enemy of absinthe, allowed the manufacture for export of absinthe even while absinthe was still illegal.

8. Switzerland bans absinthe but the Swiss have made it continuously and illegally since the ban in 1910 -- with alcohol purchased by those terrible Jura bootleggers -- from the Swiss Alcohol Commission. Switzerland is now considering legalizing absinthe and has already removed constitutional barriers to this step.

HOW ILLEGAL IS ABSINTHE?

A lot less than Amazonian parrots.

By Petermarc on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 04:29 pm: Edit

here's a little background on french business mentality (my job, however, is another story, but most french bosses think giving you a job is a gift, considering the taxes they pay on each salary, not to mention the 35-hour work week-a brilliant piece of socialist legislation that only business morons could think of)...most of them don't give a shit if they sell you something or not...just as long as no one makes a profit, they're happy...this is a very socialist country, where people would rather retire at 50 (with a pension from the government), and by 52 have no money and not know what to do with themselves...people with money in france don't talk about it, nor do they really talk about how to/or how they made it...it ain't the usa, and that's good and bad...it's a great place to live, if you have alot of money and don't have to work for someone...i went to an antique show that is usually the largest in paris, that happens twice a year...people come from all over france to sell in it...this year, it was 40% smaller...i went during a night show that lasted until 10pm...there were few customers and the sellers, instead of trying to take care of the few interested people, were busy eating and popping open bottles of wine and champagne...i walked up to a seller that i had bought some very expensive things from in the past...'how is it going?' -terrible! there's no one! ...i wanted to look at something in a locked case...-hey, come here, have some foie gras! i'll open this bottle, you tell me if it's good or not, i've got some champagne, too! 'uh...ok' he popped the cork and gave some wine to me and my friend...-do you know betty?' he asked...'uh, yes'...-well,***comments deleted, but needless to say, he didn't care if she had money or not*** 'ok, ok, we'll come back later after we look around...' as we walked around the show, a hunting dog knocked over a antique side-table, smashing it and a ceramic vase that was on top of it...the venders calmly picked it up and seemed a little too drunk to care...no one went out of their way to help us, but not because they were mean, but because this was a party, and it was more interesting for them to be drinking wine and eating with their friends they hadn't seen in a while...we came back to the seller's stand, i looked in the glass case again for five minutes, without him getting up...there were 4 other people around him, eating and drinking, having a good time...-hey, come over here! you want some champagne? he, poured us a glass...a very snooty looking french couple walked up...we want to know about that armoire over there, the wife asked...wait, the seller said, have some foie gras! no, no...the woman looked embarassed...HAVE SOME FOIE GRAS! ... ok, ok, mmm, it's good, now, about the armoire? the woman sheepishly asked... oh! you don't want that! the seller said...(i couldn't believe it) i don't know if i want to sell it, it is very rare and very expensive, it's from marseille, you know...the husband looked pissed...-hey! the seller said to the husband, have some foie gras!...the husband was not interested and his wife tried to tell him it was good...the seller didn't get up...he looked at me...was there something you wanted to see? 'no, i said, i guess not this time...' it was just too much hassle to even think about talking business with him at this point and it was too expensive anyway, but i might have bought something...ok, he said, do you have an invitation to the next show? 'no'...my assistant will get one for you, they're in the armoire over there...his assistant was busy with the snooty couple, watching as they measured the inside of the armoire...i wasn't about to interrupt them, as the husband looked like he was going to explode...and we left, the first time in years i have never picked something up at this show, in the worst of times for the venders...you've got to laugh, if not it will make you crazy, if you're not french...the only thing i can suggest to those who really do any large amount of buying in europe is to see if they can set up a checking account in euros...good luck...next chapter...the other side of french business practices-find as many ways to side-step the facts to cheat someone, since that's business anyway, isn't it?

By Heiko on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 04:20 pm: Edit

"they don't have the same "customer service" philosophy as we have..."

I guess the French customer service is similar to the German. "What, you dare buy something here? You better shut up and don't complain or I'll ....!"

By Timk on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 04:06 pm: Edit

morphee is a known French collector, so if he bought it, theres a good chance its legit, or at least he thinks it is

By Baz on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 11:39 am: Edit

Okay, found something-
Los angeles times business section february 12. I think that should be on the internet, but can't search anymore now-must go to court myself!!!

By Baz on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 11:32 am: Edit

Justin-
I can't remember where I read about that-I don't even think it was on the net. I know Paypal did an ipo on the dow this week, so if it is a legitimate concern there should be news on cnbc or msnbc. Like I said, I didn;t pay much attention. Could be that LA decided to let them continue their practices until all legal battles are done. Hell, could have even been an old link. I skimmed the news regarding the IPO and I swear there was nothing there.

Sorry for the scare, I guess...

By Wolfgang on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 11:19 am: Edit

On the other hand, most of the French sellers where very talkative and gave lots of info by email...But I guess it help a lot that I speak french.

By Chevalier on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 11:12 am: Edit

O the joy of sending cash through the mail. Is it just me, or doesn't it feel awful from the moment the envelope enters the slot?

By Chrysippvs on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 11:03 am: Edit

Baz,

could you send me some links to read up on this litagation?

By Chevalier on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 11:03 am: Edit

Frenchman Phil has a PAYPAL account.

Sometimes I wish that absinthe's points of origin had been anywhere but France and Switzerland.

By Baz on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 11:02 am: Edit

Boy and howdy, is wolfgang right about that...

By Baz on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 11:01 am: Edit

paypal, as a legal entity, may be short for this world. Louisiana has proceeded with legal action against them and NY state has warned them that they are going to investigate them as well. Paypal has agreed to cease and desist all activity with customers in Louisiana already.
The states are concerned about them running an "unregulated bank" or something along those lines. I don't use paypal so I didn't pay much attention.

By Wolfgang on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 11:01 am: Edit

By the way, someone needs to do a little trip there to understand that they don't have the same "customer service" philosophy as we have...

By Chrysippvs on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 11:00 am: Edit

It sure does and some sellers do use it. There is something called Minutepay that is like paypal, but I would rather stick to something that works...

I usually end up having to send cash to them

By Wolfgang on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 10:57 am: Edit

I agree it's a pain to do business with most French sellers. Damn! Why don't they open an account on paypal or something ? (does paypall accept customers from France ?)

By Chrysippvs on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 10:41 am: Edit

One things a lot of French sellers will do is give me a total, then when the money arrives say that they encounter 20+ USD in bank fees. This happened, and I told the guy the total was the total and he knew I was sending cash. Needless to say he left me negative feedback..worthless.

By Chevalier on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 10:39 am: Edit

Neither would I. But it's so easy for sellers (and buyers) to abandon their old, tainted eBay identities and assume new ones. And wouldn't you be tempted to buy something wonderful from a seller with no feedback? He/she could be a totally new seller, never before on eBay, with no cast-off history of bad feedback.

Incidentally, here's a spoon for your consideration:

my picture

By Wolfgang on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 10:35 am: Edit

Yes but we can always leave negative feedback.

I wouldn't buy anything serious from someone with no feedback or negative ones...

By Chevalier on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 10:29 am: Edit

Many French sellers are downright minimalist in their item descriptions, aren't they? Then they break things like bottles -- even (in my case) empty ones.

By Chrysippvs on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 10:24 am: Edit

"i wonder if it'll get 'broken' before it gets shipped out?"

If that every happens again to me, I am going to fly back to France for the expressed reason of showing up at their front door at 3 in the morning with a pair of pliers and a blow-torch...

By Petermarc on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 10:18 am: Edit

hard to tell, but most likely legit... i would have bought it, had i known about it, especially at that price...the seller made a big error by not putting 'absinthe' in his title...i wonder if it'll get 'broken' before it gets shipped out?

By Chevalier on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 09:58 am: Edit

Speaking of bottles and carafes, Petermarc ... do you have any thoughts on this one? Antique or no? I'm surprised that only one person bid on it.

http://cgi.ebay.fr/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1512163597

By Petermarc on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 09:27 am: Edit

it is a molded two-piece...many of the old absinthe bottle were spun-in-mold (i.e., have no seams, but are not free-blown(but have hand-applied lips)...the pre-ban bottle also has an applied glass seal (put on after the bottle was made) with 'pernod fils' pressed into the glass...oh, and it was half-full of absinthe, too...i also have a molded pernod pastis bottle, bought full and pretty much left that way, it is very sweet, low alcohol, almost identical to modern pernod.. the seal was created in the mold and it reads 'pernod' with a star above and below the name...it has no kick-up and is stamped S N R on the bottom...on both bottles, the side seams run over the top of the lip, the fastest way to tell a machine-made bottle...spun-in-mold bottles look like free blown bottles and were made between 1900-1920, which crosses over into the beginning of the totally machine-made process...this is why it is so hard to date carafes...many pastis/anis carafes have applied lips and look like they were made before the turn of the century, even though this process seems to have been used up to around 1930 in france...the same carafe brand and style might also be entirely machine made, the only difference being the lip...it is much easier to date american bottles and glass...that being said, a completely machine made bottle for jade would be historically accurate...

By Tabreaux on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 08:12 am: Edit

With respect to the questions below, information such as what we are doing currently, our daily production, etc., is not for public consumption.

Our products will be the most authentic available, and will offer the connoisseur the unique opportunity to sample the best original labels. Details of the absinthes will not be officially released until the products are made available. Nevertheless, if one is scrutinizing for adulterants or inaccuracies, he won't find them in our products.

Our products will be marketed legally in many countries. Those who choose to import them into countries where they are not legal will bear the risk of customs, not shipping.

These details will be clarified at the proper time, and this will be done via Belle Epoque Liqueurs, which is the sole worldwide distributor, and is responsible for all inquiries and commercial matters.

By Timk on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 08:05 am: Edit

oh, and petermarc - how do you tell the difference between the late pre-ban pernod Absinthe bottles, and the Early post ban Pernod pastis bottles? That one has always bothered me.

By Timk on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 08:03 am: Edit

FFs if I dont look at the keys when I type, I start typing phonetically! - Weird!

By Timk on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 08:03 am: Edit

Is it a 3 part mold styel, or the molded-spun type?

By Petermarc on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 07:59 am: Edit

i have a machine-made, pre-ban pernod fils bottle...

By Timk on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 07:57 am: Edit

There are several intreresting questions here, and some that from experience I know wont be answered for reasons of 'Business sense'
However two, IMHO dont compramise anything and the answers would be interesting:

* Are you making absinthe currently?

*Was the stuff that people on the forum tasted in NOLA distilled by you? Or was it Ted's home brew?


Jade is supposed to be "historically acurate," right?
If so, are you using hand-blown bottles?

I cant speak for Jade, but Hand blown bottles would add unnecessary cost to the per bottle price, maybe a 'special edition'? lol

I thought only grape alcohol is historically accurate.
So where are you getting all those hundreds of housands (millions) of grapes to make thousands of bottles a day?

Surely the reason grape alcohol was used was because it was a superior quality with less undesirables in it, and a more neutral flavour - with modern manufacturing methods, you can make a very pure ethanol from more or less any yeast culture medium.

Is one of Jade's products an exact replica of "pre-ban" Herbsaint? I have never heard
of such a thing.
I always thought Herbsaint was always a substitute.

This was explained as well, however, it would be interesting if Ted shares the historical description of Legendre absinthe which allowed him to create the replica.

By Wolfgang on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 07:56 am: Edit

Terminus : You are fucking boring.

By Terminus on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 07:26 am: Edit

Don> I knew you and Marc could not stay away from the forum for very long. What, did you stay away for a whole day? Wow! I again apologize to both you, Don, and your wife for calling her "a bad name," but I do have some legitimate questions about this statement you made:

"Personally -- I will not have a single furthr (sic) word to bandy with this fool. However, my
previous statement stands. Should I ever find this bastard in the flesh, I will have at
him physically, and he will pay for his insults to my wife, to myself and to my business. Not a threat. A promise."

Have you been reading "Soldier of Fortune" magazine again? :) Look, bud, I know you are fascinated with guns and adventure, but please keep you pent up delusional fantasies to yourself.

Now, I would like to contribute to the forum by asking some tough questions that no one here
seems to be willing to ask.

These questions are no slight to Ted (who for some reason, I innocently trust), but surely an honest businessmen such as yourself, Don, can answer these questions I have about your business:

Are you making absinthe currently?

If so, what is your production per day?

Are you producing thousands of bottles per day like you once claimed?

If so, where are you storing them?

Are you still having "packaging issues?"

Jade is supposed to be "historically acurate," right?

If so, are you using hand-blown bottles?

Are you using "tons of sugar?" I think Doc asked you about this once.

Putting sugar into absinthe isn't historically accurate, is it?

Or is the sugar being used to make alcohol?

I thought only grape alcohol is historically accurate.

So where are you getting all those hundreds of housands (millions) of grapes to make thousands of bottles a day?

If you are making all your own alcohol since nobody else can make it your degree of quality, why did you once say you were buying large quantities of alcohol?

If you are telling the truth about Jade being "historically accurate" in every way, wouldn't Jade be horribly expensive?

But historically, premium absinthe was as cheap as common wine, right?

Was the stuff that people on the forum tasted in NOLA distilled by you? Or was it Ted's home brew?

Is one of Jade's products an exact replica of "pre-ban" Herbsaint? I have never heard
of such a thing.

I always thought Herbsaint was always a substitute.

What is your policy on replacing bottles broken/seized in shipment?

What bit encryption is does the Bank of Asia use for its Secure Socket Layer? Is it 128 bit?

What happens if the Tongs get ahold of our credit card numbers?

What is our recourse if anything bad happens?

Has anyone here ever tried to sue an enterprise in Thailand? Good luck. You will be purchasing an illegal (in most of the world) product.

When you get ripped off by a drug dealer, it is not like you can go to the authorities.

Why are you collecting IP addresses for demographic reasons?

I know a lot about the internet, and I can tell you that IP addresses are worthless. I routinely use public proxies from all over the world.

Again, Don, surely an honest businessmen such as yourself can answer these questions.

By Don_Walsh on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 10:56 am: Edit

I made suppressors for MP5 and MP5SD that doubles the sound reduction. And I wasn't the only one who did so.

I looked into the Alliant thingy. This is just the last of a long series of R&D boondoggles that the US has been pissing money into for 50 years. The names change but the bullshit factor stays the same. SPIW, Serial Flechette Rifles, Salvo Squeezebore, ACR, CIWS, and now this. None of these piggyback thingies has ever been anything but a ergonomic disaster.

And that is why we are still using the M16, a weapon designed in the mid 1950s (as AR-10) then scaled down to a 'new' cartridge a couple years later. (The 'new' cartridge was a minor tweak of the .222 Remington Magnum). A weapon NOT developed by the military labs, but instead developed outside and shoved down their throat by Kennedy and McNamara -- and in this instance, rightly so.

I suggest anyone interested read "The Black Rifle" by E.C.Ezell and Blake Peters; "The Great Rifle Controversy" by E.C.Ezell; "SPIW: The Deadliest Rifle that Never Was" by E.C.Ezell.

My old friend Dr. Edward Clinton Ezell was Curator of the National Firearms Collection, National Museum of American History, Smithsonian Institution, and editor of SMALL ARMS OF THE WORLD. He passed away in the mid 1990s.

By Pikkle on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 10:51 am: Edit

Fucking cool... I know what I want for Christmas this year!

By Heiko on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 10:19 am: Edit

...-SD

*klick*

By Zman7 on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 10:15 am: Edit

Yeah, baby. HK M-P5!

By Barsnake on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 10:05 am: Edit

Holy Moly - go look at this thing!
http://www.atk.com/homepage/products/

By Barsnake on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 09:48 am: Edit

I'm an Alliant Techsystems also.
Maybe we should have a spring gathering of like weapons

By Timk on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 04:46 am: Edit

Alliant Techsystems oh fuck, me to

By Pablo on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 01:09 am: Edit

I am a sling shot!

(what the fuck?)

By Mr_Rabid on Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 05:26 pm: Edit

I'm a p-90.

I apparently look pretty fuckin cool anyways.

By Chrysippvs on Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 05:24 pm: Edit

It says I am a sniper rifle...

By Don_Walsh on Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 05:09 pm: Edit

Actually the test says I'm an Alliant Techsystems something or another. Looks like a JSSAP moneywaster to me.

By Don_Walsh on Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 04:58 pm: Edit

That's a test?

1. I'm a Stoner 93 5.56x45 NATO Weapons System capable of being configured, without tools, as

a) 10.5" barreled carbine, fixed or folding stock
b) 20" barelled rifle, fixed or folding stock
c) Magazine fed, open bolt SAW w/quick change barrel
d) Belt fed open bolt SAW using 5.56mm NATO link and a variety of belt carrying systems, and M14 bipod fully articulated, quick change barrels of either 10.5" USN SEAL Commando style or 20", both heavy profile
e) Tripod mounted MMG
f) Solenoid operated fixed MG for aircraft or vehicular installation

This is an updated version of Stoner 63A1 originally made by Cadillac Gage of Detroit 1963-1970. The Stoner was used in belt fed, short barrel configuration by US Navy SEALs in Indochina and elsewhere until the mid 1990s -- the Navy retired (destroyed) their inventory after the Gulf War.

We built a dozen samples for the Royal Thai Army trials of 1993-94. This was my idea, and I was the fellow who walked these guns through troop trials and technical trials five times in a row.

2. If I couldn't be a Stoner I'd be an Ultimax MkIII 5.56mm SAW fed from a 100 rd drum. I was the agent for Singapore's defense industries for four years 1983-87 and flogged this baby all over the US military. It was designed by Jim Sullivan -- Gene Stoner's draftsman.

By Sicboy13 on Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 04:05 pm: Edit

I'm an H&K G11, guess I'll hav'ta tell people ta stop callin' me Mac 10 yo!

By Mr_Carfax on Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 01:46 pm: Edit

Woohoo, I'm a H&K MP5 Submachinegun

Much better than the pirate name generator arrrrrrrr arrrrrr

By Wolfgang on Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 01:23 pm: Edit

Here's a test for you Don :

Which Firearm are you ?

By Sicboy13 on Tuesday, February 12, 2002 - 09:14 am: Edit

TEE HEE

By Louched_Liver on Tuesday, February 12, 2002 - 02:27 am: Edit

Yer "cover" ain't the only thing you like blown.

By Pikkle on Tuesday, February 12, 2002 - 01:04 am: Edit

Idiot... chicks dig gay guys, don't you know that!!! Now hush, yer gonna blow my cover...

By Pan on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 11:42 pm: Edit

Yuh know, Pikkle, you have this thing with "gay" . . . Are you trying to tell us something, bro?

Curiously blinking,

-Dev

By Pikkle on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 09:48 pm: Edit

I'm not gay but my boyfriend is...

By Sicboy13 on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 08:28 pm: Edit

I was a little topped last nite, (sung in best Cheech voice..."I can see clearly now the rain is gone"..) Yeah, it's all good in the hood. Sic

By Louched_Liver on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 06:22 pm: Edit

But, don't tell my wife.

By Louched_Liver on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 06:22 pm: Edit

O Sic One,

No problem. We were just havin' fun, right? At least I was. And assumed you were.

Proudly bein' all gay and shit,
LL

By Pikkle on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 05:37 pm: Edit

yeah, like don't be gay and all...

By Sicboy13 on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 04:39 pm: Edit

hey LL, I read this thread & thought maybe I got off on the wrong foot with you, sorry...truce? I am just here to interact w/others & read this stuff for what it's worth. Sic

By Timk on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 03:09 pm: Edit

it would depend what it was 50 tonnes of

By Baz on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 02:56 pm: Edit

Speakin of guns blazing, etc., and totally on a new subject, I thought Don would be the perfect one to answer this question: Is fifty tons of weapons really an awful large shipment? This ship the isrealis found, is it really that much? Fifty tons sounds like a lot, and the (goddamn) media has made it sound like a lot, but I don't know...
Why should I trust the media-after all, they've done so much to me and my family.

By Emmy on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 02:36 pm: Edit

heyas, i haven't been around in a while due to several factors including but not limited to: illness, online gaming, doc's orders not to drink (thus keeping away from those things that make me want to...)...

but Terminus was back around? haha. a long while back, we had our tiff with Term. some of you may recall those threads on "liberals" "Rush mongers" etc... where Term was so busy blindly throwing out buzz words and trying to out BC as some right wing Republican lackey... i won't forget it, cuz it brought Bob and i together in a way only those of us outside the two party system can be...

in any case, Terminus has been a pain before. funny to see he came back for more punishment. sad to see what it led to.

oh well. as always, things get sorted out here one way or another and the elders though mussed are still sitting and reading and posting...

one of these days, i'll be back... i hope...

cheers,

em

By Louched_Liver on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 06:42 am: Edit

Marc-
I spewed-"We are bound, supposedly, by a love of absinthe. And a love of human interaction."

And you said-"Irregardless, I ran out of things to say about absinthe awhile ago. I hang out here because I enjoy what many forumites have to say."
So, we still agree on the human interaction thingy, right?

Finding the common ground,
LL

By Louched_Liver on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 05:04 am: Edit

By "stifled" I meant not feeling welcome to continue his rants. If he wanted to be the guy on the corner screaming at the crowd walking by about the "evils of Dondom", then so be it.
If he wanted to attack the cocked up mess of semihumanity that is the Louched Liver clan, well, so be it. My wife's a whore? Then get the group rate, so you pay what I do.
You and I never, and probably never will, meet this jockey eyeball to eyeball, so what the hell do we care? The Forum will judge what/who I/you are, based on our prescence here over the time we've posted.
Don, the people you have actually gotten to know through this little playhouse for fairy lovers are the ones you should give a fuck about. Not anyone else who has a jab or 6 against you who pops up out of the woodwork. Terminus changed nobody's mind, I'm sure. But at least he/she/it could say what they wanted unexpurgated. Larry Flint said that the 1st Amendment doesn't protect the rights of the person saying what you agree with the most, but the rights of the person saying what you hate the most. Yeah, yeah, this ain't America, it's Kallisti's joint, but I'd hope there is room here for any and all viewpoints. I don't like censorship. Period.
You obviously enjoy going a few rounds w/anyone who attacks you. Fine and dandy. More than a few enjoy reading the ensuing melee. Who's really hurt by any of it? Admin, because it takes up some of her bandwidth. Anatomist had it right that if you get bent by what someone you don't know posts on a place like this, you gotta check yourself. Fuck that "fightin' words" crap. Save it for the real world.

Marc,
Joe Pyne-the best one legged talk show host in history! Until Totie Fields had 'em both whacked off. But, then, I don't think she got airtime sans underpinnings.

Why does Head make me drink so much? Ouch!,
Really fuckin' Louched Liver

By Don_Walsh on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 12:56 am: Edit

LL, the fellow in question came in guns blazing, attacking me and insulting anyone who didn't immediately join in his crusade -- specifically, anyone and everyone who dared to say a word in my defense.

So both his premise and his tactics were unpopular, to say the least. I'm neither god nor demigod here, just another gob who puts his pants on one leg at time. If anyone deserves demigod status it's Ted not me, but Ted is not the sort to aspire to even minor divinity, either, so, we are all mortals here, all fallible, all imperfect.

But Terminus 'stifled'? Hell no. He said his piece, several times, loudly and long.

Maybe he objects to Kallisti's new policy. I did at first but then I read it carefully and had a chat with her and I understand where she is coming from.

Admin banned him briefly, but it was a mistake -- she took him for a troll, and he'd been gone from the forum for so long that even she (who must be obeyed!) didn't remember that he was an old forumite. So she lifted the ban. As far as I know his absence is self imposed.

Marc is quite right -- he (mr. T) didn't have anything else to say beyond trying to crap in my hat.

So, may the cyber door not hit him in his ample ass on the way out, and as far as I am concerned his self-exile might as well be a lengthy one.

By Marccampbell on Sunday, February 10, 2002 - 12:29 am: Edit

louched liver,

terminus was hardly stifled by this forum. he more than freely expressed himself. the problem with terminus was that beyond attacking Don he had little to say.

I own every brand of commercial absinthe, several La Bleues and a half dozen homemades. Irregardless, I ran out of things to say about absinthe awhile ago. I hang out here because I enjoy what many forumites have to say. And occasionally I'll post something about a film or piece of music I like. I've also jumped in to defend Don, not because I'm his toady but because I find him both entertaining and educational. He's kind of like a cross between pro-wrestler, Blaise Cendrars, Joe Pyne and Brando in Apocalypse Now.

By Pan on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 11:15 pm: Edit

:sings the Cheers theme:


"Where nobody knows your naaaaaaaame . . ."

*sheepish grin*

Sorry.

-Dev

By Louched_Liver on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 10:22 pm: Edit

Glad you're back. SAD, that Terminus feels stifled by this Forum. I wish nobody felt this little site made anyone nuts enough to be obsessively insane and pissed enough to bolt.
We are bound, supposedly, by a love of absinthe. And a love of human interaction.
If everyone would just realise that this is just a space in cyberspace where NOBODY knows your name, and just state your piece to the masses, w/out regard to the feedback, peeps be happier.

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