The Mari Mayans Mafia

Sepulchritude Forum: The Absinthe Forum Archive Thru March 2002: Archive thru February 2002:The Mari Mayans Mafia
By Petermarc on Monday, February 25, 2002 - 08:25 am: Edit

obviously of little interest in the portugese colonies....

By Absinthedrinker on Monday, February 25, 2002 - 07:43 am: Edit

I really hate to drag old threads out of the dust into which they have quietly sunk, but while I was in Goa my local bar proudly brought out the quarter full MM bottle that I had left there last year. It had been sitting in the Indian sun for 12 months and was as bright green as ever. I declined to taste it though.

By Baz on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 07:58 am: Edit

I would agree that the core of the beer market is budweiser, but with the renewed interest in better beer for the last decade, there are more people who want something better. More of the market frowns on budweiser now, and would prefer a bass, guinness, bigfoot barley wine, or whatever. The sophistication of the market we are dealing with is very limited. For many people, finding absinthe because it will supposedly "make them high" or add an air of mystery is like high school kids looking for beer. Taste and brand are less important than the fact that it's there, and they found the means to procure it. Quality has taken a back burner to image.
And nobody can tell the diff between hops grown on different farms in ny! But you can tell between, say, washington state grown saaz and czech grown saaz. And for those capable of differentiating between the region grown, it can be of vital importance!
Sorry, I took a couple of ephidrine pills this morning to wake up and can't seem to stop typing

By Chevalier on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 05:24 am: Edit

"The core of the beer market is Budweiser not the handful of people who would argue over which is the best hops from New York."

By U.S. consumer standards, Budweiser has a cheap retail price; Hill's does not. (Granted, Hill's is inexpensive compared to certain La Bleues; but I'm assuming that most drinkers of Hill's are not absinthe connoisseurs hunting around for a variety.) So price, as well as taste, is not a purchasing factor. The success of Hill's stems from its wide distribution (via pubs, clubs and website) and "hip" marketing strategy (pub/club/film event sponsorships, green double-decker bus, promotion of the absinthe legend, bad-boy superstar name-dropping).

By Petermarc on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 03:36 am: Edit

absinthe as a consumable product has an unusal niche in that the great majority of buyers do not seem to use 'taste' as a purchasing factor (somewhat like vodka drinkers, although there exist several fine-tasting vodkas and it can be easily mixed, unlike absinthe) and will continue to drink it (usually) even if they don't like it (which seems clearly the case with hills) for it's assumed effects and status (considering it's extremely high price compared to recognised quality beverages)...i can't think off the top of my head anyone saying they drank hills because they 'loved the taste!' or any advertising for it that even mentioned that it tastes good as a sales technique...what a fun market to introduce a high-quality product that actually tastes great
at a similar price!

By Drbeer on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 12:57 am: Edit

Ahh "The Great Race"... fantastic movie in my opinion!

By Tabreaux on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 08:08 pm: Edit

"I sincrely doubt that the general market for Absinthe would frown on Mari Mayans."

True, especially in light of the fact that Hill's (rubbish) probably sells more 'absinth' than anyone on the planet. This is both a reflection of the taste of the average consumer (or a lack thereof), as well as the unavailability of products that appeal to those with a more refined palate.

By Lmarchegrisiste on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 07:18 pm: Edit

If beer had the same availability problems as Absinthe would discussion be limited to the most craft brewed 5%. Any practical discussion of how to overcome the limitations on getting a broad market product to the table catches arrows. I sincrely doubt that the general market for Absinthe would frown on Mari Mayans. The core of the beer market is Budweiser not the handful of people who would argue over which is the best hops from New York. Now I bet we will hear from the handful who can tell hop farm by taste.

By Don_Walsh on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 05:50 pm: Edit

Star anise not anis seed.

BTW almost all star anise (Illicum verum) now comes from Vietnam. The Chinese trees are getting old and producing smaller stars. The Thais used to cultivate star anise but now just import from VN.

By Don_Walsh on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 05:46 pm: Edit

Ask Ted. If there are any (further tests) they are his tests. But I believe he intends to only publish them (if at all) when they are complete, and not piecemeal, and after rigorous checking, to avoid precisely the sort of confusion you are now suffering.

If you ever see a complex chromatogram you will know what unreliable means. Peaks overlap, peaks merge, and it requires special techniques to re-run the analysis and seperate the peaks. If the analyst is lazy or incompetent or in a hurry or is doing this on a government contract e.g. Is this 10 mg/Kg thujone or it is 11 mg/Kg? -- he might not go balls to the wall to determine if the allegedly thujone peak is really two substances with same retention time under his test conditions (which are quite complex).

I am by no means accusing friend Wormwood of any of those sins of omission or commission, but, his results were non-reproducible. That just means 'disregard'. So, disregard. (In this instance he apparently got a false negative, or else, maybe he is right and MM contains no thujone at a test limit of <1 mg/Kg.

Some GCs can detect low ppb levels (depending on detector type, injector type etc.) and 1 mg/Kg is 1000 times more. ppm = mg/Kg. ppb = ug/Kg.

By Petermarc on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 05:25 pm: Edit

>With its translucent lime/apple green colour, the nose was a rich, clean blast of aniseed balls. A full, rich mouthfull blended aniseed with fresh citrus notes, extended by a ripe orange sweetness, before finishing with a clean burst of aniseed. Water not only clouded it but prompted an impressive louching action, while the attractive aniseed nose led onto equally forthright aniseed notes rounded by orangey hints.

what i want to know is:
is there any taste of anis seed?

By Louched_Liver on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 05:24 pm: Edit

Like cold fusion.

By Louched_Liver on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 05:24 pm: Edit

As far as I know, the hallmark for a scientific hypothesis standing is its ability to be replicated. Or is it theory? Whatever. W/out the ability of it to be repeated, it is suspect.

By Maldoror on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 05:15 pm: Edit

Don,

I don't think I do.

You had said in that previous strain that this particular method, also done in the U.K., was unreliable. Have any other tests been done that you know of?

Mal

By Don_Walsh on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 05:01 pm: Edit

Mal, you'd best take up Wormwood's GC results with Wormwood. His results were not replicable. Do you understand what that means?

By Thegreenimp on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 04:52 pm: Edit

I found Mari Mayans to be one sided and overhyped, when I got my bottle quite awhile back.
Out of all the brands I've bought, I've consumed Mari Mayans the least.
Jay

By Petermarc on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 04:06 pm: Edit

suise

By Pikkle on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 03:47 pm: Edit

Gee... I thought opinions were protected by the First Amendment... like "I think it sucks" as opposed to something more slanderous like "They put tenrec pee-pee in it to give it color." You can prove objectively whether or not there is in fact tenrec pee-pee in it whereas you cannot prove whether it sucks. Some people may actually enjoy tenrec pee-pee, I can't say I do, nor Mari Mayans, except sitting on my window sill at dawn...

By Tavarua on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 03:24 pm: Edit

"Those Tetrarchs look like they're "strangling the parrot" on their sword hilts."

Whatever it is, it sure ain't pretty. Hey, where are they're other hands.

By Maldoror on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 03:08 pm: Edit

I'm a bit confused. There was a thread earlier called "Concerning Thujone" In it Don Walsh, Wormwood and some others are discussing various thujone levels. Wormwood posted a chart showing the results of GC column test he did. It shows that he did NOT detect Thujone in Mari Mayans. I know the results of a test like that are never 100%, and that thujone levels are not the most important thing for Absinthe snobs like myself, however I must say, Miss Mayans is really starting to look like a fishy little bitch.

Justin- Nice post on the absenta.com site.

By Chevalier on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 03:01 pm: Edit

Those Tetrarchs look like they're "strangling the parrot" on their sword hilts. (Inside joke here: "Strangling the parrot" was a Belle Epoque euphemism for quaffing absinthe.)

By Tavarua on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 02:45 pm: Edit

Kind of like that other friendly duo that play with cats, Sigfreid and Roy, with their muzzles and their whips.

By Tavarua on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 02:42 pm: Edit

"And no, they weren't gay ... I think."

Nah, they were just "really good friends", who liked to work-out together and occasionally grip up on a bird.

By Chevalier on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 01:40 pm: Edit

Speaking of Venice and shared empires, take a look at the Tetrarchs ...

http://www.bluffton.edu/~sullivanm/romantetrarchs/tetrarchs.html

And no, they weren't gay ... I think.

By Baz on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 01:33 pm: Edit

Ahh, Poe...
If I recall my history correctly, an empire shared amongst emperors is a short-lived affair.

By Chevalier on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 01:31 pm: Edit

In fact, it will be a Venetian-style republic, complete with doge, bridge of sorrows, carnival and thrusting stilettos. Needless to say, the casks will not be filled with amontillado.

By Don_Walsh on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 01:26 pm: Edit

I was afraid of that.

So, were we supposed to alternate periods on the throne, like the Malaysian Kings do?

Or be co-Kings like some of the Siamese monarchs used to do?

And let's not discuss who gets to be the Queen.

By Tabreaux on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 01:21 pm: Edit

The 'empire' reference comes from the dramatic script of the WNBC-NY article. Let's just say we would have worded that differently (as well as just about everything else).

By Don_Walsh on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 01:17 pm: Edit

If we do go Imperial I insist on staging the pie fight from THE GREAT RACE. Ted gets the Tony Curtis part (The Great Leslie), I get to play Professor Fate, and Justin can alternate between Keenan Wynn and Peter Falk.

Kallisti can have the Natalie Wood part if she wants.


** PS Justin, this is NOT the Great Race from At The Mountains of Madness.

By Rimbaud on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 01:15 pm: Edit

Hey, punk! John, Paul, George & Ringo have got nothing to do with this!!!

By Baz on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 01:13 pm: Edit

by the way, I think the beatles used to color serpis are also used to flavor it...

By Baz on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 01:12 pm: Edit

I got some friends, see...
Dey can assure dat you never hear from dis guy again, ya know whatta mean?
You want I should contact dem for ya?

By Don_Walsh on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 01:09 pm: Edit

I want to see Justin as the Emperor and Ted in a breather, black helmet and cape. Darth Breauxster!

Anyway, what 'recent article' is this you are citing?

Are we supposed to be going imperial?

Does that mean I need new clothes?

By Wolfgang on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 01:03 pm: Edit

Well it is featured on this page right ? Maybe you don't sell it but you don't speak so badly of it so I don't understand his concern.

By Heiko on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 12:56 pm: Edit

He's afraid of the "absinthe empire" Justin and Ted want to build up (according to that recent article) ;-)

By Themagicman on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 12:53 pm: Edit

what, were not to talk about are opinions.
sorry i think thats bullshit look I have tryed MM did i hate it no. would i drink it again yes if it was the last bottle in my house. look everyone has opinions and thats way i say you should try something and dont take everyones opinions about a product if you can get it and afford it then go for it, Im trying to be a connoisseur of absinthe so that means to me im going to try as many products as i can and i would say that most peoples first try of absinthe was prob.. MM Ive talk to alot of people and they told me that MM was their first....

My 2cents

By Don_Walsh on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 12:41 pm: Edit

Oh, been there, done that. It's only human nature. No one likes to be threatened. But James is apparently also upset about something, I dunno what. Do anything lately to yank his chain?

Maybe someone is sending James nasty-grams and signing your name to them?

There's precedent for that, on this forum.

James, if you are reading this, email me and tell me what has you upset. I will try to help.

By Chrysippvs on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 12:34 pm: Edit

I concur Don, I think I just got a bit hot under the collar form his e-mail...

By Don_Walsh on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 12:32 pm: Edit

Best to let sleeping dragons lie.

By Don_Walsh on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 12:27 pm: Edit

James Gordon is a nice fellow who has visited my house and brought a bottle of MM70 with him.

We killed most of it here and then proceeded to Patpong where I introduced him to some of the key bar group management, with a view toward their importation of some of his products. This was a couple years ago.

Mari Mayans certainly has its share of fans on this Forum and has always been treated with great fairness in the Buyers Guide.

Opinions vary widely as they do about most absinthes, uniformity of opinion is typical only of the very worst and the very best and is hard to achieve even then.

Distillers and distributors often make claims about their products which involve different usages of words than we employ here. When we talk about 'natural coloration' we specifically mean chlorophyllic coloration by addition of finishing herbs followed by their removal. Chlorophyll and other substances leach out. This color is delicate and perishable. I do not think James means this when he insists that MM is naturally colored. That is because MM's color does not exhibit the light sensitivity of chlorophyll.

However, there can be other legitimate meanings of 'natural' -- the cochineal used to color Serpis is natural product, from beetles, but it is not 'natural coloration' in the traditional sense that we employ here.

Similar misinterpretations and misunderstandings can apply to the meaning of 'distilled' absinthe, alcohol is distilled isn't it? Essential oils are also distilled -- by steam. We use a very narrow meaning of 'distilled' when discussing 'distilled absinthe' and obviously other people might use the term very differently. Some of those people may be disingenuous in doing so, but I don't see any reason to assume that James, who is a good guy, and fun to drink with, is one of them.

James, C. is also a good guy and has the right to his opinions. You'd really have to sue him in an American court, and I think you'd have a very interesting time establishing malice, and besides, Mari Mayans as an absinthe, is not lawfully importable into the United States. So what damages can you seek for calumny against an interdicted product? Hmmm?

C'mon, chill out. Legal threats are boorish at any time, impotent ones are mega-boorish.

By Chrysippvs on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 12:18 pm: Edit

There is no place on my website that sells mari mayans or any absinthe.

By Wolfgang on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 12:11 pm: Edit

Well Chrys, I don't understand because you are actually selling it on your web site! What's their problem ?

By Wolfgang on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 12:08 pm: Edit

Hey! WE are the Absinthe Mafia! WE are suppose to whip their fat artificialy colored ass and impale their little star anus down our swiss cross absinthe spoons!

By Chevalier on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 12:03 pm: Edit

Enter the dragon.

By Don_Walsh on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 12:00 pm: Edit

What website is my old friend James talking about?

By Chevalier on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 11:32 am: Edit

Call Gordon a "bashi-bazouk". That'll show 'im.

By Chrysippvs on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 11:28 am: Edit

my reply to the e-mail:

"you don't honestly expect me to believe this do you? Natural color? Food coloring is not natural, complex taste...cheap star anise?

Don't threaten me either..."

his reply:

"Carry on and see"

This is getting interesting..

By Chevalier on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 11:26 am: Edit

A recent photo of James Gordon, Esq. A fly in the ointment?

my picture

By Chevalier on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 11:24 am: Edit

The WISK? Is that some sort of fly whisk?

By Chrysippvs on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 11:21 am: Edit

Just got the following e-mail:

"Please refrain from 'bad mouthing' our product on your web site and in
emails, what you are saying is not true and if you keep it up we will be
forced to take legal action. Do not believe everything you read on the net.
MM is the only absinthe to be recognised by the WISK and is distilled from
wormwood, the colour is natural and the taste complex.
James Gordon
www.absenta.com"

Isn't that a riot?

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