|By Baz on Wednesday, February 20, 2002 - 06:38 am: Edit|
|By Dr_Ordinaire on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 05:20 pm: Edit|
Since we are talking about the Amish, here's a joke (that, in my case, is true):
I drive so slowly, the Amish give me the finger...
|By Anatomist on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 04:53 pm: Edit|
...doesn't surprise me. No matter what the other benefits of rigid, repressive codes of living, there's always the problem of the return of the repressed. Trying to keep natural drives and desires from being expressed by force only makes them stronger... unless you just kill the whole organism. That kind of control is an illusion, and the truth is eventually revealed. Humans have a natural drive to seek altered states of consciousness - witness kids' love of swings, slides, and spinning around until they fall down.
|By Baz on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 11:20 am: Edit|
I read about that a couple of years ago. Ever had to disarm an amish teen hyped up on crystal meth?
I guess they just do like kids at college-swing to the farthest point away from where they started. "How wild can I be?" sorta stuff.
|By _Blackjack on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 09:30 am: Edit|
There is a big problem in rural PA of Amish kids, during their "year off" that Baz mentioned, making and dealing crystal meth.
|By Larsbogart on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 07:03 am: Edit|
What about that tradition of sleeping with their children? Every time I hear the word Amish that follows.
Don: how am I doing on capitalization?
|By Baz on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 06:32 am: Edit|
They do have to wear reflectors, but a lot of times it's just not enough.
I recently found out that most amish send the children outside of the sect when they are 18. They have a year or two to decide if they want to come back or if they prefer the "real" world. Almost all of them go back.
Most are nice if you strike up a conversation, but they almost never start one themselves. And they almost never bathe, either.
|By Pablo on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 01:57 am: Edit|
I'd go for Amish over the Scientologists any day.
As for the journalism issue, take it from a journalist. The bad press is going to come. Its going to come when some dumbass 15 year old drinks a bottle of Absinthe he stole from his goth uncle after watching Moulin Rouge and jerking off to Nichole Kidman, and claim he saw fairies and had visions from God! That will be his defense when he runs over 6 people in mommy's minivan. Its a big country, and there are alot more absinth drinkers than just post on this forum. The shits a-comin, its just a matter of when.
I sometimes think a premptive strike with a balanced story would be in order.
My 2 pesos worth.
|By Destiny on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 09:28 pm: Edit|
Hollywood is like Mecca for Scientologists. They're everywhere, walking around in a daze wearing those weird uniforms. The worse thing is that they get all the good runaways!
Wanna trade some Amish for Scientologists?
|By Etienne on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 08:52 pm: Edit|
Depends on what kind of mood they're in... it can go either way.
|By Destiny on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 08:46 pm: Edit|
I knew a guy who came from Mennonite family, he was a great guy but really confused. Got into BDSM for all the wrong reasons and then turned into a junkie. I'm happy to say that he cleaned up and went back to his family.
Sometimes I think it might be nice to be Amish, usually when I'm up to my neck in network problems. I'm sure it probably sucks, but the Hollywood version seems nice.
Are the Amish nice when they're in public or do they just ignore you?
|By Bjacques on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 08:32 pm: Edit|
Mennonites were originally Dutch, or at least the sect came from here. They were early Protestants (early 16th c.) but their practices and beliefs, such as direct religious experience, common property and the worthlessness of church officials, owed more to 12th- and 13th-century movemements like the Brethren of the Free Spirit. A pack of them left Amsterdam in 1525 (I think), a few steps ahead of the city guards and took over Muenster, which they declared the New Jerusalem and trashed before losing to a besieging army.
The rest, led by a man named Menno (still a common name here) stayed behind in Amsterdam. Somewhere along the line they learned to make fantastic Shoo-fly pie and vanilla fudge.
What goes "clip-clop, clip-clop,clip-clop, PAK! PAK! PAK! PAK! clip-clop, clip-clop, clip?
an Amish drive-by shooting
|By Pikkle on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 07:30 pm: Edit|
Well... I don't appreciate my tax dollars going to clean up their blodied corpses off the roads... they can just keep their silly shrouded selves to milkin' the cows and makin' my furniture! Fucking Germans!!!!
|By Etienne on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 07:09 pm: Edit|
They have reflectors, some have lights. They still manage to lose a couple every year to trucks coming over hills. They seem very stoic about such things.
|By Pikkle on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 06:40 pm: Edit|
If they want to live that life style, they need to stay on their little patches of God's land and never leave it... or if they do, they must assimilate into our society even if it's only for a trip to the Walmart. MY 2 FUCKIN CENTS!!!
|By Perruche_Verte on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 06:36 pm: Edit|
Weren't they eventually forced by court order to put the orange reflective "slow vehicle" triangle
on the backs of these things?
I'm rather fond of them myself.
|By Baz on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 11:37 am: Edit|
We have a lot of amish here. They take their horse and buggy to the local "wal-marks's" and hitch them to a light pole, then drive that deathtrap contraption buggy (which is always painted flat black, because that's God's favorite color) home on the highway at night with no lights and ...
Shit, I'm ranting again, aren't I?
|By Don_Walsh on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 07:04 am: Edit|
I dunno any Quakers except off oats labels. I was taught organic synthesis by (among others) an Annonite from Pennsylvania; he was a helluva nice guy and very liberal. As to the differences between Quakers, Shakers, Annonites, and Menonites, etc., I cannot speak.
My Annonite-descended professor was not shy about having a beer at the Department keggers; and he was a particularly gifted sythesist. In fact he was author of some particularly useful books on the subject. I have good reason to recall that a couple of his PhD candidate research assistants, who were also very gifted, were into recreationals, particularly MDA/MMDA, a LONG time ago. Like mid 70s.
Dr John Stowell, became ill with cancer, I dunno what kind. He treated himself "off the bench" toward the end, making his own medication, and man, if anyone could do it Jack Stowell could.
He lost his fight.
He was a great guy and I miss him.
Don't knock those Pennsylvania Dutch and German folk.
|By Anatomist on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 06:45 am: Edit|
I just moved here six weeks ago. The ignorant presumptions continue...
|By Destiny on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 10:26 pm: Edit|
Just fucking around, Hannibal. Not writing a doctoral thesis, ya know. Rube, huh? Don't hear that word much in L.A., but then I checked your location so now I understand. Good thing I'm not black, might have been called a Negro!
|By Sicboy13 on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 08:31 pm: Edit|
rube?...I thought it was the shoes.
|By Anatomist on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 08:29 pm: Edit|
The mainstream Christian uptightness about sex that underpins of our laws and various ratings and censorship codes doesn't have much to do with Quakers. As far as devout Christian sects go, Quakers are extraordinarily liberal. Your statement makes you sound like a rube.
|By Destiny on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 08:18 pm: Edit|
Hiya, Carfax. Yes, my comments were absolutely specific to U.S. That's where I live and so does Donut, so it seemed appropriate.
By "bad time", I meant as in lots of sensationalism and bad press. You're right, we are entering a new golden age (emerald age?) with the availability (and soon availability) of such good stuff.
(Now Donut can write about the new golden age so some limp-dick senator in the midwest can put a stop to it before it begins!)
Yup, the US sure isn't the EU, we can't even see boobs on TV unless we have cable. How's that for uptight?
Fucking Quaker bullshit!
|By Auntieminda on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 04:16 pm: Edit|
First off, ya'll, it wouldn't kill ya to give Ian a break as far as his hyper-enthusiasm is concerned. He is an undergrad, after all. I would say he is awash in idealism at the moment.
But really, Ian, you should stop lurking, hang out, get to know everyone here, soak up the atmosphere. Post a couple of reviews of the absinthes you've tasted to help out newbies like myself. Give if you want to receive.
You are a journalist. You should know how to give an interview. Unless you're doing an antagonistic piece, then you should be making us (your interview subjects) comfortable. Why not chat with us a bit?
|By Sicboy13 on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 03:58 pm: Edit|
|By Mr_Carfax on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 03:54 pm: Edit|
"I understand the lead time involved in publishing (my original major was journalism), but the fact remains that you are making your inquiries *now* during a bad time. "
Bad time?????? I'm not sure I agree.
With Pontarlier coming back into life, Jade on the horizon, the export markets opening up globally with adoption of EU legislation- frankly this is the best time absinthe has had since the Belle Epoch.
Destiny I think your assertions that absinthe is in a "delicate" period is an overstatement, although I appreciate there may be validity in your comment if we are talking US only.
It is a commercial product, by all rights it deserves scrutiny by whatever government authority wants to look at it, because it is their mandate to protect consumer safety. It is the job of the manufacturer to be able to provide that assurance of safety - if that means providing scientific testing and justification, international precedent etc..then that is what has to be done- fact of life.
I think there are two attitudes with regards to absinthe- those who choose to treat it like an illicit narcotic and want to maintain an atmosphere of exclusiveness and mystique around it like a bunch of naughty school children smoking behind the sheds at lunch. Then there are those who see it for what it is- just a drink - but choose to experience the consumption of absinthe akin to connoisseur-based appreciation of wine or scotch.
It is only in the latter scenario, and I believe most people on the forum could be regarded as "connoisseurs", that it becomes obvious the good from the bad absinthe, and hence we discuss, provide critique, and purchase accordingly. We are not "absinthe at any price" people.
Let the former drink Hills.
|By Sicboy13 on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 03:52 pm: Edit|
Let's give journalist's a break, I mean, Geraldo does have that whole "Al Capone's Safe" thing going for him. (tee hee)
|By Destiny on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 02:50 pm: Edit|
Donut, if your motive isn't sensationalism, then why absinthe? It certainly isn't a topic that most people know or even care about - until recently. Therefore, as a journalist, you'll have to make the assumption that your audience knows nothing about the subject which puts you in the position of having to first reiterate the negative before continuing with the rest of the story. I understand the lead time involved in publishing (my original major was journalism), but the fact remains that you are making your inquiries *now* during a bad time. Timing is everything. Surely you can't surprised that people aren't flocking to your door to discuss the subject.
If it weren't for the sensationalism, it would be a non-story. It's like Geraldo Rivera's pretending to inject serious journalism into his silly hyped stories.
Now here's something that will get your name in lights: "Nutmeg - Mother's Little Helper", or how about "La Fée Brune"?
|By Bjacques on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 01:25 pm: Edit|
You sound ok, if a little excitable. I've already sent you my answers and you're welcome to them, boring as they are. I found your questions generally ok, since they asked for personal experience and not for pronouncements or speculation about the absinthe scene.
Some of the people here have been burned, directly or indirectly by the press before, so you can understand their reluctance to answer yet another absinthe question. Opening with a glib comment in this forum is as much a faux pas as doing so in a strange bar.
No, you shouldn't allow anyone to see your story until you turn it in. I learned that much from a journalist friend of mine. She found it bizarre that public figures do so in the Netherlands. They also jailed a journalist for not revealing his sources. And you *can* spend a few days in the can for harshly insulting the crown.
Absinthe isn't necessarily headed for a lot of unwelcome publicity. Obviously, a scary story will hurt, but an intelligent one can't do any harm. If you shop your story around, please consider the venue. If you sell it to some Hearst or Murdoch rag known for scaremongering, don't act surprised when the finished product reflects it. Even so, maybe you can tell the frat boys this is 140-proof booze that you can't just knock back like Jack and Coke, but that's up to you.
Er, regarding the Green Fairy, I should also add that after too many drinks of absinthe, I didn't see the Fairy--I only saw a big white porcelain bowl, close up.
You, ah, misspelled "villain."
|By Iamadonut on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 04:58 am: Edit|
"What confuses me Donut, is that you claim to be "someone who is writing this out of a love and fascination for the subject" but then don't seem to mind the awful timing of yet another article on absinthe."
Unfortunately, I can't do much about the timing -- it's unfortunate that such a silly piece as the WNBC story happened to emerge when I started researching my article. Out of my hands...
Also, it might be a moot point, but you also have to take into account lead time -- if some editor actually wants to print my story, chances are it won't see light of day until well into the summer, at the earliest. Right now Playboy is working on their August issue. My article isn't due until March 18. A month to shop it, then 4-6 months after that until it gets printed. Who know what other stories will be out by then?
"OK, he drinks absinthe.
Must make him angry and paranoid too."
Not yet, but I'm sure a few more days on this board will make me come around. ;)
"Know what you will discover? IT'S JUST A DRINK."
IT'S JUST JADE. (I don't like the sound of that, either...)
But you're right -- it's just a drink. And you know what? That's what my story is about. Fancy that.
"I was more than willing to cooperate with you in the beginning. But, the more I've come to know you the less confidence I have in your ability to write a balanced and thoughtful article on absinthe."
That's a shame since from what I've heard you would've been a big help. Sorry you feel that way.
The way I "infiltrated" this board was probably the wrong way to do it. But I believe in honesty -- silly me, I still trust people, and I didn't imagine I'd be met with such hostility and bitterness. I probably should have known better. I don't believe in lying about who I am so I can falsely gain people's trust. I could have been more careful about how I worded my posts and I could have been more low key -- but I still believe that I've been honest, courteous and straight forward. That should be the least anyone expects from a journalist, writer or just the average person.
|By Pikkle on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 01:14 am: Edit|
Wow... crack does kill!
|By Lordhobgoblin on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 01:10 am: Edit|
It seems we pay considerably more for our spirits than you do in Germany. For the very cheapest, bottom-end vodka (1lt) we pay about £9-£10. For an acceptable whisky/whiskey (or other spirit) (1lt) we pay £16, for a decent whisky/whiskey (1lt) we pay from £22. For Chatreuse and stuff like that about £25-£30.
As for the UK well at least in the UK the fact that the UK is a union of 3 different countries (I exclude N.Ireland) is recognised by everyone. Each country has it's own national football and rugby team, it's own flag, it's own national anthem and now each has it's own national parliament/assembly. Nobody really believes that someone from Glasgow is from the same country as someone from London.
Do we ever see a Sicilian national football team, or a Venetian national football team? People from these 2 places have about as little in common in history, culture and self-identification as people from Aberdeen and London, (probably even less in common).
Next thing people will be running around talking about being of 'European' nationality as if someone from Athens has the same nationality as someone from Hamburg. The sad thing is that some delluded politicians in Brussells (and elsewhere) already are saying such things.
|By Pikkle on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 11:26 pm: Edit|
I must mark this day... the first time pikkle was right about anything... then again, when you speak from the heart, you can't be wrong...
|By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 11:13 pm: Edit|
OK, he drinks absinthe.
Must make him angry and paranoid too.
|By Destiny on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 10:58 pm: Edit|
"I'll even donate the rest of my absinthe stash, a measly quarter bottle of Lasala!"
"I have tried some Czech crap (first purchase, never again) and Deva 70 and LaSala, both purchases from SC last summer."
"It fascinates me. Ever since I found out about it about 1.5 years ago, I've tried to satiate my curiosity about it by studying it, talking to people about it and trying it."
So Donut does seem to have tried it.
What confuses me Donut, is that you claim to be "someone who is writing this out of a love and fascination for the subject" but then don't seem to mind the awful timing of yet another article on absinthe. Due to the recent sensationalism and hit-pieces, even a well written, factually accurate pro-absinthe article would feed the flames and draw unwanted attention. Personally, I don't see submitting a paper for class as much of a threat. But when you start calling the Feds for comment (particularly when the info is already avalable) then you do start to look like someone who doesn't respect the delicate situation that exists.
As for posting a draft, you *could* post it, but won't. I've seen some well-written almost scholarly posts in the forum so I doubt that there's a need to rip you off, but I understand your hesitation.
And Pikkel is right, I'd tell you anything if you were a yummy little goth girl. As a matter of fact, one will be here soon so I'm signing off for the night.
|By Mvario on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 10:57 pm: Edit|
|By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 10:06 pm: Edit|
We never got a straight answer from Mr Student Journalist, about whether he drinks absinthe himself, or not, and therefore is just kibbitzing.
Loaded questions and no straight answers.
Not a good combination, half a hack. You'll go far.
You want to know about absinthe? DRINK IT. Know what you will discover? IT'S JUST A DRINK.
|By Marccampbell on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 09:29 pm: Edit|
Ian, calm down. You're way too opinionated for a
journalist/reporter. The more you rant, the less likely you are to inspire the confidence of the people who post here. pikkle is right. You should have infiltrated the absinthe forum with sublety.
You should have listened and learned. Instead, you're coming off like some kind of punk hothead.
I was more than willing to cooperate with you in the beginning. But, the more I've come to know you
the less confidence I have in your ability to write a balanced and thoughtful article on absinthe. On the other hand, maybe you consider yourself a gonzo journalist, a half-pint Hunter Thompson. Thats cool. If thats the case, you've got a long way to go. Drink some absinthe, eat some shrooms, drive to Big Sur and stare off into the endless, scrotum-shrinking void. Then come back and tell us if any of this shit matters.
|By Pikkle on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 08:32 pm: Edit|
Hmm... if it were me writing this blurb... I'd do all the research, historical and recent, spend some time quietly on this board, asking questions, not as a journalist but as someone who'd possibly interested in trying absinthe, experiencing it... I'd publish my article based on what I've done with whatever spin I wanted to put on it... if I wanted to do another piece, more indepth perhaps I'd extoll upon the virtues of my first piece, gain the trust of this community then proceed... you're all backwards my friend and now it's too late... come up with another nickname and pretend to be a shy twenty-two year old goth girl from Schenectady who reads HP Lovecraft and Anne Rice a little too much, ... we'll tell you all you need to know...
|By Pikkle on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 08:25 pm: Edit|
Uh, yeah, except they're not called journalists... they're called writers and they publish books and stories people care about and believe... and please next time, when you're going to quote something I've written, use the proper punctuation...
|By Mr_Rabid on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 08:22 pm: Edit|
Many fear the attention that this may bring from the gubmint. Any story is a bad story.
The gubmint is not an entity that follows logic, or uses reason to excess in such matters.
They stoopid and powerful. A four year old with a gun that can stop me enjoying my absinthe.
We have been burned before, and very recently to boot.
You, my friend, are a cowboy walking into an Apache camp. Where there was recently a shoot out with another cowboy.
Me, I think we should give you a shot. But I do see the point in not doing so as well- I have argued that in the past myself.
At this point, the wind seems to be blowing towards more publicity for my favorite chlorophyllic goblinette, and so I think it better to sail with it, instead of against it.
Moulin Rouge, From Hell- two popular movies in one year or so.
So many fuckin articles I can't count them. I remember when no one who considered writing such a piece would try to interview an absintheur because there were none as far as anyone knew.
That was nice, but it's over for now. We may fade back into the woodwork, but it isn't going to happen yet. Better we spread truth where we can rather than let falsehood spread.
|By Iamadonut on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 08:03 pm: Edit|
Just read the "Thoughts on the WNBC story" thread and came across your posts. Wow -- sounds like you need a writer who's open to the truth, willing to do research to find it and not prone to sensationalism.
If only such a person existed...
Are you the power?
Egad, such pessimism, all conjecture to boot. How many people here have ever had an opinion changed my something they read, saw or heard? Do we doubt the general population so much? I think not too many people care either way about this subject but if it's going to be presented in some light, at least it can be positive or not so biased. Misunderstanding and ignorance is what keeps change from ever happening and the sentiments being trumpeted here back that up completely. If it's to be known, let it be known for what it is, not what someone thinks it should be. And to think we have no power over this is absurd, we are the power. Yes, this is mildly preachy but this attitude I'm getting here is pissing me the fuck off, I've never seen so many quitters before in my life.
|By Iamadonut on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 04:53 pm: Edit|
Thanks for the notes Ted, they do help. No disagreements with me there, especially on the Hill's comment.
"I don't like the idea of a story at all. But, if something is written, I think that Rabid had a good idea. If Narc posted a draft, the forum could proof it. It's gonna be proofed anyway, why not here?"
Unfortunately, I can't do that. The article will be proofed, but it will be by an editor who is A)probably very far removed from the subject and B)has an agenda--to make his/her publication money. If that editor isn't interested in a non-sensationalist absinthe piece, then fuck 'em -- they can tell me off and find another absinthe piece that fits.
If I were to allow anyone to read my article before it were turned in/printed then that could cause some potential problems, such as people spreading a story I worked very hard on before it is published, something that editors aren't too keen about. This is a pretty universal policy for journalists, and I may not be the "real thing" just yet, but I sure am trying.
I'd be more than happy to let you all see the article once it's been turned in for a grade and I've tried my hardest to get it printed. I don't have anything to hide...
And you're right...you have much more info on me than I do on all of you combined. If you'd like to come by and say hi, I'll even give you directions to my apartment. (And I don't forsee dropping out of USC...only 4 months to go!)
|By Destiny on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 04:15 pm: Edit|
I don't like the idea of a story at all. But, if something is written, I think that Rabid had a good idea. If Narc posted a draft, the forum could proof it. It's gonna be proofed anyway, why not here? Narc did say that he had a quarter bottle of Lasala so he seems to have at least *tried* it. (No Lasala comments please, you know what I mean.)
We have his name, phone number, website, and school/major. He can't hide if he does a hit-piece. (I have a certain "access" to USC anyway so I can probably find him, unless he drops out of school and gives fake forwarding addresses - unlikely due to loans.)
I still like the idea of a damn party...
|By Tabreaux on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 04:11 pm: Edit|
A few notes.....
Make a fortune? Ahem, let's just say that I am not quitting my proper job. If we wanted to make a fortune, we would have brough another cheezy product to market with a name like "Absinthe Van Gogh - 100mg/kg thujone", and marked it up 1000%. Obviously, this does not interest us.
As far as pricing, if you want to discuss a product that demands a premium to take advantage of a market, I can think of no better example than Hill's. Just imagine the markup on that travesty of a product. Meanwhile, our pricing (which has not been made public) will reflect the low end of a threshold below which it just wouldn't be practical for dozens of reasons.
FWIW, the commercial success of our products is not dependent upon U.S. buyers.
Finally, unlike what is currently available, our products are not designed to exploit a fad.
Hope this helps....
|By Pikkle on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 03:50 pm: Edit|
The market for absinthe in the US is miniscule compared to other similar beverages... what could be worse than to have to basically have your product smuggled into a country? What is more nefarious than that? What needs to happen is this country's regulatory organizations get together, come up with some standard and we can all be done with this stupid, outdated "ban" on what would otherwise be a marvelously delicious libation. It is in no way advantageous to any seller, marketer, importer, etc to have their particular product criminilized, except in the instance of criminals which Mr. Walsh and Mr. Breaux are not. We are backwards compared to European nations in many ways...
|By Iamadonut on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 03:40 pm: Edit|
I have a thought about press coverage and absinthe, and would like to know what you think:
This is in reference to Don Walsh, maker of Jade.
Don is in a position to make a good sum of money with Jade, which can command a good price because of its superiority to other absinthes. The fact that absinthe is "illegal" in the US probably helps Don's position -- as of now, most any absinthe can command a premium because of the difficulties involved in importing/exporting/distilling it.
There is perhaps a fine line in the pres coverage of absinthe and Don's ability to make money. Too much exposure and the authorities might crack down on absinthe, making it more difficult for Don to sell Jade. (Too difficult so it's impossible or just difficult enough to raise prices, I don't know). Too little coverage and people stop hearing about absinthe and Don gets no new customers. The resurging "fad" fades.
Does there need to be some publicity -- even negative publicity -- to keep it alive? Or is there no such thing as too much publicity -- no matter how illegal absinthe becomes, it will still be available, it's allure will grow and Don will make a fortune?
Or, is there enough history in absinthe that even with no press, people will stumble upon it by themselves?
|By Themagicman on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 03:30 pm: Edit|
Oh by the way I fucking Love Hunter S. Thompson
sorry Im I little Late...but Hunter S. Thompson is the best and I like him long long befor that shit movie sorry I thought the movie was crap the book was way better
My 2 cents
|By Iamadonut on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 03:27 pm: Edit|
"It could be like an article about the comeback of the martini- a color piece with lots of nice descriptives and a few well chosen quotes."
Why, that's a magnificent idea. ...unless I start talking about how buying martinis actually funds terrorism...
"Has he attempted to insinuate himself into this culture or is he merely stating that he is an outsider, will remain an outsider and will have an outsider's opinion on this subject? "
I consider myself an outsider because I am new here. Being new makes me an outsider. It's the nature of the fact. Take that away,and you have someone that is interested in absinthe, likes to drink absinthe, and likes to learn about absinthe. Maybe that doesn't make me such an outsider after all?
"I am speaking of your reputation as a journalist. We can all discertain which journalists will attempt to write a fair and unbiased article based upon what they've all ready written, i.e. their record speaks for themselves."
My (outdated) resume:
You won't find much there...just some silly little reviews about CDS and concerts for my school paper. So, ridicule away!
I am a student. I have yet to become a corrupt yellow journalist (maybe I'll learn that in grad school). I believe that I've been honest, courteous and open on this forum -- an open-minded observer. No one sets out to write a bad article, and hopefully I'll get it right.
Everyone, don't worry -- I'll stop intruding into your absinthe world very shortly. I've enjoyed talking with some of you, but it's obvious my outsider viewpoints aren't wanted, so I will keep them to myself. You can save your hostilities for a future battle with Don.
|By Pikkle on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 03:10 pm: Edit|
Once at work, I had a sure thing... I had a way to make a process improvement, save the company loads of money with a little capitol expenditure... I did my research, got my numbers in order and put together a report complete with billy badass charts... everything was solid. But guess what? It didn't fly. How could it not? I had all my ducks in a row, the numbers were there plain as day... to me. Then someone suggested I take those charts and numbers and put them in a different format, use color, simplify it... and guess what, the next time around it flew, with flying colors... sometimes it's not what you know but how you say it... or ask it.
|By Pikkle on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 03:00 pm: Edit|
It is the difference between good journalism and bad what get's taken out of context and what doesn't...
|By Mr_Rabid on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 02:58 pm: Edit|
I have an idea- Mister Donut, how would you feel about posting your article here before it goes anywhere else?
Let us tear it to bloody shreds, and hand it back. If your goal is indeed accurracy, that won't hurt in any case.
This doesn't need to be a non-story either. It doesn't have to be the Latest Club Craze(tm) or the baby deforming potion angle at all.
It could be like an article about the comeback of the martini- a color piece with lots of nice descriptives and a few well chosen quotes.
As for digging- well jesus, yes he could. He could eat bandwidth and get out of date information while he does it too.
He could quote the things he finds there- this is a public board innit? And twist them into journalistic macrame. Just like with the things we tell him directly. 'On one website discussion board devoted to the subject, a member going by the handle Mister Rabid advocated home treppanation with a large unsterilized drillbit, calling those concerned for their own safety 'pussies'...'
Not every article must be bad- I've seen a few good ones here and there (Verawench wrote a nice one for instance.)
|By Pikkle on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 02:58 pm: Edit|
More information? Would you like my complete family mental history? What more information at present would such a person need who may or may not have even imbibed this beverage? Has he attempted to insinuate himself into this culture or is he merely stating that he is an outsider, will remain an outsider and will have an outsider's opinion on this subject? Is this what we need as a community? We've seen the outsider's commentaries a plenty and there've been very few, at least in my estimation that have come close to what we as a community know and experience with this thing.
As for what you will write as opposed to what you have written... I am speaking of your reputation as a journalist. We can all discertain which journalists will attempt to write a fair and unbiased article based upon what they've all ready written, i.e. their record speaks for themselves. We know nothing of you, nothing of what you've written and how you're portrayed it. Yes, I've been a good driver all my life, who's to say I won't get in an accident tomorrow? That doesn't hold water here, you're asking us to take a risk and I'm not so sure that's what this forum needs, another unsure thing.
|By Iamadonut on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 02:29 pm: Edit|
"by his wits... if he has any... there is enough here all ready on this forum, through various posts and threads to be able to get enough info to create an objective article... don't get baited into making comments he can easily paraphrase into distorted quotes, let him dig... all good journalists can do this if they need to... "
I agree -- there is plenty of info here already. But more information wouldn't hurt, would it?
Attaching worm to hook,
|By Iamadonut on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 02:25 pm: Edit|
"How about we all end this communiqué with Mr. Narc until which time he can PROVE he is on the level, an objective journalist who will not further the misconceptions those on this forum fight so hard to abrogate... this conversation is over."
I would have to agree that Mr. Rabid is correct. Even if I have been objective in the past, there is no real way to know what I'm going to write now until I write it.
But, if I were someone who just wanted to show absinthe as the evil liquor that deforms your babies, why would I be spending my time on this board, trying to get the opinions of people that would certainly refute this angle? Instead, I'd probably just talk with the FDA, quote Mr. Walsh's off-handed "quick to anger and paranoid" remarks and interview people like Jason DeBoer about his absinthe-induced epilepsy.
As far as I know, the people who have helped me out and told me about their experiences are far from going insane or committing crimes. They seem like rather sensible people to me!
As far as Don goes, I'm done talking to him -- it doesn't seem to be going anywhere, and I wouldn't want to "insult" him post after post and be labeled a troll (in addition to a narc and someone with very little brain power). If his "courtesy" involves calling people half a fag and a motherfucker and telling me to "blow it out my ass," then I would like to have nothing to do with his form of courtesy.
|By Pikkle on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 02:14 pm: Edit|
by his wits... if he has any... there is enough here all ready on this forum, through various posts and threads to be able to get enough info to create an objective article... don't get baited into making comments he can easily paraphrase into distorted quotes, let him dig... all good journalists can do this if they need to...
|By Mr_Rabid on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 01:42 pm: Edit|
And just how the fook is he going to do that without writing the article?
Which he is gonna write anyways.
|By Pikkle on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 01:36 pm: Edit|
How about we all end this communiqué with Mr. Narc until which time he can PROVE he is on the level, an objective journalist who will not further the misconceptions those on this forum fight so hard to abrogate... this conversation is over.
|By Mr_Rabid on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 01:29 pm: Edit|
1. Art. Van Goh, Picasso, various other artists who end in O or not.
2. On the beach, under a full moon in October. Snuggled up with my girlfriend under a blankent and watching the waves. Sigh.
3. No. No more than I do when I bite the wax tadpole, if ya know what I mean.
4. Yes. And she owes me five bucks, the bitch.
|By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 09:44 am: Edit|
"Italia" was only ever semi-united by nationalism when temporarily under the heel of outsiders. Sicilians who (apocryphally) cried "Morte alia Francia Italia anella!" (Death to the French is Italy's cry!) hardly though themselves Italian, usually.
The national centrifugal forces that plague Italy, and Germany, and to a lesser extend the UK, are supposed to be subdued and subordinated by the emerging federalist EU, but may be exacerbated by it. France is less heretogenous, perhaps, but apart from France, it is hard to name a really united European state -- Belgium has its divisions as does Spain as does Holland. About the Balkans I'd rather not think, they are...balkanized. That's what brought down the Austria-Hungarian Empire. (In which a dozen Walshs of the Irish Wild Geese Jacobites were Field Marshals and Generals.)
|By Heiko on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 09:18 am: Edit|
I don't know what crazy prices for alcohol you have in the UK, but when I go to a supermarket in Germany, most 0.7l bottles of different liquors cost between 8 and 15 Euro. Some special stuff like Chartreuse costs about 20 Euro. You won't find anything more expensive in the normal stores. You can find less expensive stuff, like Ouzo for 5 Euro (0.7l, 38%, it's drinkable).
I agree, the SC prices are ok - Deva from SC cost about 17 Euro alltogether last year. That is an acceptable price. German resellers charge 35 Euro plus shipping - and that's what I call unfair!
P.S.: I bought a bottle of Frappin V.S.O.P recently for exactly 35 Euro plus shipping...
|By Heiko on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 09:04 am: Edit|
Is Germany one country? Is the UK one country?
Certainly not more than Italy!
Without Martin Luther we'd still have no common language in Germany - the same goes for Dante Alighieri in Italy...
|By Lordhobgoblin on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 09:00 am: Edit|
"We still don't have fair prices for most absinthes - mediocre pastis-like oil mixes are sold for the price you usually pay for V.S.O.P. cognac, the really bad stuff is still more expensive than most other liquors."
Come on Heiko, SC prices are excellent. £10 a bottle what's expensive about that? If you can but VSOP Cognac for that price then please let me know about it.
I really couldn't care less that supermarkets in the UK charge £30 a bottle for absinthe, I'll get mine from SC. Anyway supermarkets (at least in the UK) aren't interesting in selling absinthe, for them its just an interesting addition to their spirits range. It just enables them to say "we offer a wide range of spirits of all sorts". What happens is that one of their rivals lists an absinthe just to do something his competitors aren't and then they all go and list another brand just so as to be seen to carry as good a range. None of them are actually interesting in selling it, so they price it at £30 a bottle and couldn't care less whether it sells or not. There is no chance whatsoever that they will sell a 'value' absinthe, what's in it for them? Sod all margin and (unlike cheap baked beans) there is no strategic reason at all for them to sell it. As for discount retailers well there is nowhere near even a minute fraction of the volume in absinthe to make it worth their while considering stocking any absinthe at all.
|By Larsbogart on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 08:55 am: Edit|
well have you ever met an italian who liked another italians cooking?
|By Lordhobgoblin on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 08:41 am: Edit|
Is Italy really one nation?
Italy has been 'a nation' for less than 140 years and the Italians are just not used to it yet (and in reality they don't really like the idea), so rather than being 'Italian' they are Sicilians, Neopolitans, Puglians, Venetians, Romans etc. Italy is in reality a collection of small nations united only by a common language. They only in fact become 'Italian' if they are 3rd generation emigrants in foreign lands.
|By Heiko on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 08:37 am: Edit|
"No one wants to see Fleischman's Absinthe at the corner drug store for $5."
Well, right now the situation is that stuff which is worse than 'Fleischman's Absinthe for 5$' is sold for 40$ a bottle and the producers claim to brew it according to historic recipes...
If we had a definite low-price brand, then nobody would think it was special, but the prices of the better stuff would probably go down. We still don't have fair prices for most absinthes - mediocre pastis-like oil mixes are sold for the price you usually pay for V.S.O.P. cognac, the really bad stuff is still more expensive than most other liquors.
I've recently had a German Kirsch, the 0.7l bottle for 8 Euro, 45% of alcohol, won a national medal a year ago. It tasted very smooth, the taste of the alcohol was perfectly clean, not in the slightest way unpleasant. When warmed in a cognac glass for a while it started to have a very intense aroma and tasted even better. To make it short, it was a really good high quality distillation made in Germany. 8 Euro! That's a price I think is very fair! And I think more work went into that Kirsch than goes into most of the modern absinthe brands!
|By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 07:54 am: Edit|
The Sicilians would be delighted to agree most sincerely that they aren't part of Italy. Rome however disagrees.
At least Napoli is in the south. Not like those Germans in Milano or those unspeakable Dalmatians in Venice...and Roma, the Eternal Putana...
|By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 07:50 am: Edit|
My mother's family name is Graffagnino, and the family comes from Salaparuta, of the lands of the Duca di Sala Paruta (The Duke of the House of Paruta.) The village (near Palermo) is famous for the wine, of the same name, Duca di Salaparuta, and the soil is rich from the volcanic ash of the nearby fire mountain. My cousins the Bivonas are from nearby Gibellina, which like Salaparuta was immolated in the eruption in the 60s. But, the church records of Salaparuta survived. while those of the nerby village perished. So we have a 450 year unbroken genealogical tree on the Graffagnino side, which is on the Net, but on the Bivona side things are not so well documented any more.
You know, we Sicilians like to keep the family records in order, so we can blot out the lineage of anyone who so much as gave the time of day to a stranger, or a policeman.
Of course the Corsicans are even worse, or would be if they weren't half French. The Corse say, "If you take revenge sooner than 20 years...hasty fellow!"
|By Mvario on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 07:42 am: Edit|
that's cool, I'm only half Italian (Sicily isn't part of Italy). My Irish-Swedish half says Thanks!
|By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 07:38 am: Edit|
There's an old Sicilian saying. I won't bother you with the impenetrable Sigi dialect.
"Forget Roma. The Devil sleeps in Napoli."
But, I'm only 50% Sicilian. My Cambro-Norman Irish-German half says Welcome! Have an absinthe.
|By Mvario on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 07:25 am: Edit|
Mosca's? I think i recall seeing it. I spent a month or so down in Nawlins a couple of years ago. Not much of an epicurian myself, but I think some of my associates dined there. We were working in Gretna and Taft, but got digs in the quarter. The only other city in the country that I've been to that I would choose to live in.
|By Mvario on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 07:19 am: Edit|
Hey! my family was from Naples! Let's keep regionalities out of this.
Those were the good, hardworking Neopolitan Varios. I believe there was another Vario family from Sicily though
|By Mvario on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 07:12 am: Edit|
I don't know, with almost all products you end up with a range, high end, low end. I think there would be a place, and a customer, for top-shelf absinthe. and, yeah, there would be middle men in there to profit... there's almost always middle men. But with availability I think demand would increase and economy of scale would kick in to alleviate some of that drain.
What would I like to try? What comes to mind first... I'd like to try François Guy, and La Fée, I've heard good things about both. I don't have your resources/friends/connections. If I can't find it on the net I'm pretty much just another lost geek.
Me? I'm in NYC
|By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 06:58 am: Edit|
And speaking as a half Sicilian myself. I say to Tony Aiello: Va fangul! Your father was a policeman and your mother...well, was married to a policeman.
To Sicilians there is no deadlier insult.
|By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 06:54 am: Edit|
Capone was a Neapolitan punk pimp with tertiary syphilis. (Paresis eventually killed him.)
He killed off two rivals, Aiello and a Sicilian mustache-pete named Big Jim Colosimo, to take over the Chicago rackets. But his attempts to expand into New York and New Orleans were highly unsuccesful, to put it mildly. He was a johnny come lately and from the wrong part of Italy.
He did however have a very good chef.
After the feds put him away for cheating on his taxes, his chef, named Mosca, was hired by Carlos Marcello of New Orleans and Gretna, Louisiana and the restaurant that bears his name is still around today.
|By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 06:45 am: Edit|
The result of legalization will be schlock, a drive for the lowest common denominator. ATF approval of formula and LABEL ART? And the distribtors make all the profits not the distillery. As a distiller -- well, you can figure out what I think about that.
What absinthes do you want to try that aren't available (wherever you are) at all?
Believe me, I live on the dark side of the moon and I magage to get what I want, and spend less for it, than most people in the states.
|By Mvario on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 06:36 am: Edit|
Looking around the web I don't see any Aiellos connected with any of the five families, though there is lots about Joe Aiello as a chicago bootlegger and Capone rival. 59 bullets ended his career.
Also, I'd like to see it legalized, I don't have your resources and there are a few absinthes I'd like to try that aren't available here at all. And the purchase price would definitely become more reasonable.
And I'll be sure to look for WEDGE: The Secret War Between the FBI and the CIA, I find that inside-the-secret-government stuff interesting. Might want to check out Yankee and the Cowboy War by Carl Oglesby, read it years ago, but it was an interesting read.
|By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 06:10 am: Edit|
Hear, hear, Mvario.
However, to be more precise, the status quo is just fine. Non-enforcement and benign neglect.
It's the rocking of the boat by assholes such as Tony Aiello of WNBC -- I am still scratching my pate trying to remember which Mafia family the Aiellos are from -- seeking sensationalist ink and soundbytes, that threatens that precious equilibrium.
No one wants to see Fleischman's Absinthe at the corner drug store for $5. 'Twould be wretched, and there would be NO incentive for the making of anything decent, much less spectacular. It would be, God forbid, Methodist Absinthe. Intoxication to be sure but best not take any pleasure in it.
Here's to the Status Quo. Long may she wave.
|By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 05:59 am: Edit|
In case anyone thinks I was trying to live up to the paranoid label, that whole riff is a distillation of part of the most excellent book WEDGE: The Secret War Between the FBI and the CIA, by Mark Reibling, which I recommend.
Background on Mark Riebling
Mr. Riebling was born in 1963 and grew up in the suburbs of Los Angeles, where he was educated in Catholic, public, and preparatory schools. He attended the University of California at Berkeley, as a President's Fellow, and graduated magna cum laude, in 1984, with a Bachelor of Science in Philosophy. In 1984 and 1985 he studied philosophy at the Graduate School of Arts and Sciences, Columbia University, passing with High Honors the doctoral examinations in Ethics, Political Theory, and Esthetics.
In 1986 he joined the editorial staff at Random House, Inc., as Assistant Copy Coordinator. He was promoted in 1987 to Editorial Assistant, in 1988 to Assistant Editor, and in 1989 to Associate Editor. Among the authors with whom he worked especially closely were Carl Sagan, William F. Buckley, Jr., Margaret Truman, and John S.D. Eisenhower.
From 1989 to 1991, and from 1999 to the present, Mr. Riebling has worked for the Manhattan Institute for Policy Research, serving as editor and contributing writer to books published by Basic Books, as well s Harvard and Oxford University presses. He has also been a contributor to the Institute's City Journal.
As an author, Mr Riebling has specialized in the history and reform of public institutions, applying a humanistic perspective to problems of national security, domestic justice, and international law. His first book, Wedge: The Secret War Between the CIA and FBI, was translated into Japanese, Chinese, Polish, and Czech. He has been an op-ed contributor to the New York Times, The Guardian (London), and International Herald Tribune (Paris). As a public-policy guest-commentator he has appeared on CBS News, CNBC, Fox News, and National Public Radio.
|By Mvario on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 05:56 am: Edit|
Re. A non-problem is a non-story:
Maybe the problem is an archaic law based on misconceptions and hysteria in the US that needs to be re-thought?
That sounds like a better story to me, and one that the press doesn't seem to be looking at.
|By Mvario on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 05:49 am: Edit|
1. Find out as in its existance? Don't recall. As in its availability? I had heard it was available in europe. When I went to London on vacation I wanted to try it. Didn't get a chance to, but after my return I thought I'd take a look on the web (one can find anything on the web).
2. Firt experience drinking absinthe? I thought it was too sweet and very strongly anis. Kind of like ouzo or strega. But it was Deva and I had been warned that most of the Spanish absinthes had these characteristics. When I finally got around to trying Segarra (and later some Le Bleues) I enjoyed their flavor much more.
3. Such a TV-news type question. The question itself implies that there is something wrong. Why ask someone if they think they're doing something wrong if you don't think they are? Why use a word with negative connotation ("indulge", def. To yield to the desires and whims of, especially to an excessive degree) rather than a more neutral one (such as "drink"). Same thing with the word "substance" versus, say, "beverage". But to address the question: You tell me, am I? By "wrong" do you mean illegal? I'm not selling absinthe, and I don't believe that owning or drinking it is illegal. Or are you talking about some moral wrong? I'm pretty much a libertarian when it comes to what people choose to do with their own bodies, so you can apply that to absinthe (as well as smoking, abortion, euthanasia, drugs, seat belts, etc.) and draw your own conclusions.
4. If you get smart-ass answers it's probably because it a smart-ass question. On the other hand, I wouldn't kick Kylie Minogue out of bed if she showed up in that cute green costume.
|By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 05:31 am: Edit|
My point being, if you drink absinthe yourself, cool, and if you don't then piss off, kid. We don't want to be ants in your talking ant farm.
If you want to be a journalist, be a Hunter Thompson and win the admiration of particularly bad Presidents. Don't be a phony like Woodward or Bernstein who were fed the whole Watergate trip by Cord Meyer of the cia, Ben Bradlee's fucking BROTHER IN LAW. Aka Deep Throat. And later a syndicated columnist himself. Cord Meyer whose ex wife was one of JFK's numerous screws and who provided the acid he dropped in the WH...all the while working for James Jesus Angleton, her ex-husband's best friend (chief of agency counter intelligence). And she was killed within months of that, next to the Reflecting Pool, the DC police nabbed a black guy and tried to frame him but it didn't stick.
See, there are real stories out there.
Of course, if journalism is just an elective, and you are really going for an MBA or something, well, forget it. I'm angry and paranoid.
|By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 05:16 am: Edit|
Show me anyone these days who isn't quick to anger and paranoid.
Road rage. Disgruntled postal workers, made more disgruntles by anthrax in the mails. Disgruntled former Enron employees looking for their lost bennies. Air rage, air rage cubed since 9/11. Secret Service agents from the WH Detail tossed off airliners because some glorified waitress with plastic wings decided she wasn't comfortable with an Arab American toting a .357 Magnum on board even if he WAS a Treasury agent with a Top Secret clearance on his way to guard the President. NY firefighters angry at NYPD and City Hall and the dickheads who replaced the real flagraisers at Ground Zero with a politically correct ethnic mix. You want angry and paranoid, you puppy? Look around you at the fucking WORLD, and damned right you'd better call me MR. Walsh. My father's dead, I'm over 50 and that makes me frigging IT.
Till you show a few signs and portents of some modest brain power and couresy, and I tell you otherwise, that is.
|By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 05:06 am: Edit|
Hey, Ian, I'll let you in on a little secret. We were quick to anger and paranoid...BEFORE we started drinking absinthe.
So blow it out your ass.
Just tell me one thing:
So you drink absinthe yourself?
Or are we all just grist for your mill?
|By Iamadonut on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 04:42 am: Edit|
<A non-problem is a non-story.
True -- but from my dealings here, I could surely characterize absinthe drinkers as quick to anger and paranoid. I can characterize anything I want, but I won't, and that is why, as mentioned before, I am trying to reach said experts.
As far as a non-problem goes, absinthe is being covered, and covered as a SUBSTANCE, as DRUG. I think our friend the WNBC video shows that. If I'm writing that absinthe is NOT dangerous, it's NOT a problem, then I'm disagreeing with the rest of the journalistic clan -- is that not a story?
Just as a story of how crack is actually good for you and good for our pores is a non-story?
"So your characterization of Ted and Justin as my partners is inaccurate. "
Apparently that is my mistake. I was told different, but I'm sure you know better than anyone who your partner is.
One more question:
Do you think you are doing something wrong by indulging in said substance?
ps: I called myself a narc because it was a term I was called in a previous post. It amused me, and i liked the idea of it being a headline. That's bout it, no deep dark secret about that one.
|By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 02:47 am: Edit|
Ian, why did you describe yourself as a NARC in the header to this thread? Isn't that inappropriate?
This is a forum about booze. Specifically a green aperitif.
Absinthe is not a 'drug', it's a drink. Not a 'substance' but a sippin' liquor. We don't do substances, we get tipsy.
I have enumerated elsewhere how absinthe, far from being 'illegal' in most of the world as alleged by a troll asshole, is actually LEGAL in almost the entire world, basically EVERYwhere except the USA, and in USA its status is simply that of a beverage containing a "prohibited food additive". The additive itself is a common article of commerce; the herb it comes from is too. Americans can and do buy or grow wormwood and make tea from it and drink it. Oil of wormwood can be bought, sold, manufactured, imported, and exported without any government interference at all. Wormwood extracts, etc., likewise. Common grocery store herbs and spices contain more thujone than wormwood does. (Try sage -- Salvia officianalis). And that is used to flavor pork, sausages etc. Smell it and you are smelling thujone.
The ban on absinthe was a FRAUD a century ago, the American government banned it because the Europeans did, now the Europeans have rolled back the ban, but the American bureaucracy is too stupid and intransigent to follow suit. FDA will say the Europeans are wrong. Well, then why were they right 100 years ago? You mean Britain doesn't protect its citizens from hazardour liquors? THEY NEVER BANNED ABSINTHE in the first place. Neither did the Spanish or the Portugese, yet absinthe never became a public health problem on the Iberian peninsula. The Swiss never stopped making it despite the ban, but it never became a public health problem in Switzerland (it became a bone of contention between ethno-linguistically rival cantons.)
But I'll tell you something about the media business, friend Ian, and Blackjack, who works for USA Today will back me up I am sure:
A non-problem is a non-story.
Write that absinthe ISN'T bad and you will get spiked (do you know the term?) every time.
It means your story gets stabbed onto the editor's spike. Trashed. Rejected.
|By Thegreenimp on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 01:35 am: Edit|
Ans. to questions:
1. W.C. Fields (see the movie The Bank Dick)
2. W.C. Fields (see any of his movies)
3. W.C Fields ("according to you, everything like is either immoral, illegal or fattening.")
4. No, but I know a Six foot rabbit named Harvey.
|By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 01:26 am: Edit|
Ian, I did not 'cooperate' with the WNBC interview. I was never contacted by WNBC. And Ted only mentioned that he was going to be interviewed by them, a day before the interview. My opinion about the matter was not sought.
Had I been contacted by WNBC I probably would have smelled a rat. But that is now a matter of hindsight.
Ted owns BEL, Justin is associated with him because Ted wants it that way. I am not involved in BEL.
Ted owns shares in an offshore corporation with which I am involved and incidentally, Justin is not.
So your characterization of Ted and Justin as my partners is inaccurate.
You can call Ted my partner. You might call Justin 'Ted's partner', which he is, but he isn't my partner, he's my partner's partner in a different business. Such business relationships are not commutative.
I happen to like and respect Justin, he's my friend, and I am happy he is assisting Ted in what Ted does.
But get the facts straight.
Why don't I do interviews? Because that's Ted's job, I have other things to do, and we both like it that way. Believe me, there isn't anything I know about absinthe that Ted doesn't know. And then some.
Question Three remains inane. You were projecting an inappropriate quality onto a thing and a human interaction with it. Guilt and absinthe do not concatonate.
|By Pikkle on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 01:13 am: Edit|
Because IAN the NARC... he's got a hideous dark secret... he's really... ACK... GAG.... it's... the..... absinthe...... argh.... Don... is...really...
|By Iamadonut on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 01:03 am: Edit|
Dear Mr. Walsh,
Since you are a senior journalist, then why did you cooperate with having your two partners appear on a news broadcast? (Innocent question, no acidity meant) Also, since you know more about this occupation than I do (I'm not belittling you, I'm being wholeheartedly honest), then do you understand why i am posing these "inane" questions and why I am trying to solicit responses by what I think to be the authorities?
I also did not phrase my "inane" question ("why are you attracted to a 'substance' you (iamadonut)feel you ought to be guilty about??") because I DON'T think you SHOULD feel guilty about it.
...but these are rather silly, moot points, aren't they?
Mr. Walsh, you seem to be an intelligent, thoroughly knowledgeable source on the subject -- so why won't you do interviews? It seems to me that you would be the perfect person to demystify any myths, fallacies regarding absinthe (not that Mr. Sledge wasn't helpful -- I thoroughly enjoyed talking to him and he enlightened me in a great deal of aspects on the substance)
|By Pikkle on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 12:51 am: Edit|
I think he meant substance like "semen" or "anal lube" as a substance...
|By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 12:29 am: Edit|
Ian, the wording of Question Three, and use of the term 'substance' (implying a drug) was inappropriate. As a very senior journalist to a student one, I am saying that precision in phrasing a question is your responsibility and your profession.
The question remains inane.
You wouldn't happen to be applying for a job at WNBC would you?
|By Auntieminda on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 12:28 am: Edit|
OK, I'll play on that question too, fair enough.
How can I demystify something I've never experienced? Men walked on the moon, and I know it's a chunk of rock, but it's no less mystical and mysterious for all that. Maybe if I walked on the moon...but then again, what if I walked on the moon and I had a mystical experience? Felt an uncanny connection as I tripped along the dark side where all the cats are supposed to party? Damn. Never know till I try it, huh?
Maybe you should define "demystify" for me.
As for the legality issues, hell, the dubious legality isn't why I'm interested in absinthe. I wish they would get the legal mess straightened up so I could pick up some bottles at the local fine liquor store. Hallelujah.
More for your money,
|By Sicboy13 on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 12:23 am: Edit|
my cat's breath smells like cat food... R.W.
|By Iamadonut on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 12:20 am: Edit|
Dear Mr. Walsh,
I never said you SHOULD feel guilty about it. Nor did I say you ARE doing something wrong. I know the answer to both questions -- I was just curious as to HOW that answer would be worded. For example, I find Destiny's post very helpful, (and I sincerely thank you for that.)
Mr. Walsh, please don't jump to conclusions. I certainly am not.
Desinty -- thanks again for the freebie. If I could hook up a party, you'd be the firt person I'd invite. Well, after Ms. january, Ms. February...
Ian "Inane" Young
|By Pikkle on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 12:20 am: Edit|
I felt kind of guilty about that time me and my sister were drinking deva and one thing led to another...
|By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 12:08 am: Edit|
Question three is inane.
Absinthe is a LIQUOR. Do you think you are doing something wrong when you have a beer? A Martini contains a little thujone, y'know? Vermouth means wormwood. Feel guilty about having a Demon Rum & COCA-cola?
Prohibition is dead. Died 74 years ago, and good riddance.
Question should be, why are you attracted to a 'substance' you (iamadonut)feel you ought to be guilty about??
|By Pikkle on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 11:06 pm: Edit|
Try sucking on a tampon soaked in cachaça, La Saler Bleue and oxycontin... you'll never be the same... or anything for that matter!
|By Drbeer on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 10:50 pm: Edit|
|By Destiny on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 10:41 pm: Edit|
Okay, I'll throw ya a freebie...
If it was completely legal and as common as Budweiser I would find it less alluring. Still a good drink on it's own, but I happen to love the aesthetic ritual and the history, which includes certain social (and legal) connotations. Human nature being what it is, "wanting what you can't have" does add that special something.
There are plenty of strong alcoholic drinks. There are plenty of cheap (and legal) mind altering substances. But like the book says, absinthe really is history in a bottle.
Now, hook us up at the Mansion and I'll help you out with the party. I'll even bring my free bottle(s) of Jade I'm getting for guessing the Bastille Day release!
(I can already feel Don's hands around my throat.)
|By Iamadonut on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 10:22 pm: Edit|
Thank you, Auntie M, much appreciated.
If I could, I'd throw you all the biggest gosh darn party of your lives! Unfortunately, the most I could is offer you a couple of those chalky Valentine's Day candy hearts and set up a game of musical chairs. Scratch that...can't afford those candy hearts.
A question: would any of you care at all about absinthe if it was completely legal, readily available and thoroughly demystified?
|By Iamadonut on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 10:17 pm: Edit|
My email address is rather readily available -- check the profile or my previous posts. But in case you are interested, and i hope you are, here it is: email@example.com
sensationalism, huh? Wouldn't that involve me not even trying to talk to any of you and instead yelling from the highest mountain "Absinthe is EVIL! E-VIL!"
Hmmm...that might be easier...
...and I'm not quite clear as to how I might be discrediting anyone. please explain.
To me, the biggest problem that can be caused is not giving information. If my only source is the FDA, who say it is a harmful, evil, illegal hellspawn, then my story reflects that. However, if I am able to talk to people, knowledgeable people, such as Mr. Sledge, then my article can talk about absinthe's bad rap. If I'm met with hostility and paranoia when trying to talk to people who drink the stuff, then that's all I can say about it in my article.
I'm not saying you *have* to talk to me. In fact, at this point, I've probably convinced most of you *not* to talk to me. Poor tactics on my part? Probably. But I just hope that you can see where I'm coming from. If I don't write this story, then someone else will come along, such as WNBC, and treat it unfairly. And if I didn't love this subject so much, then trust me -- I wouldn't be trying so hard to get your opinions. I'd just watch that WNBC piece, talk to the guvment and let it fly.
|By Destiny on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 10:15 pm: Edit|
Just come to his party at the Mansion and he can pay you there.
|By Auntieminda on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 10:13 pm: Edit|
Hey, I didn't give him all the dirt...if he wants to talk to me after I get a taste of the goddess, he's gonna have to pay.
|By Destiny on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 10:10 pm: Edit|
No, no, no!!! Auntieminda, you're blowing my deal!!! He's a journalist, he wants a story so he gots to pay da price. Gathering, Playboy Mansion, bunnies, absinthe, info.
You two can cuddle up and chat after the party.
|By Pikkle on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 10:09 pm: Edit|
Meet me at 42.13, -83.63 and we can discuss the sordid details...
|By Auntieminda on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 10:03 pm: Edit|
OK, here's the dope. I've never tasted a drop of absinthe (least not in this life, dahlin) but I'm a newbie. And I thank the gods that I found this place, cuz I'm sure my buds and I would have, as I've commented before, grabbed some of the Chex-mouthwash and been horrified and sat back saying "I'd rather be popping Listerine tabs." At least now we have a chance.
And yes, I'm here, and I'm reading about the fairy squeezins for the same reason you are: fascination.
I think the largest concern has been about the idea of you contacting the FDA. And yeah, quotes look good, but you can get quotes from an authorative website or book without drawing the attention of the FDA.
Give me time to get an order in, and I'll answer your questions. I can answer one and three and four right now, though I may add qualifications on four after I've tried the stuff.
1) I really don't remember where I first heard about absinthe. Probably art appreciation class, maybe earlier. My first vaguely interesting (but not entirely correct) information on the drink came from www.erowid.org a couple of years back. It's only lately, however, that I've become really interested in it, enough to find out more, start reading books and such.
4) Welcome to my world. Of course the green fairy exists. Why not. Every plant has a spirit, and an energy, if you will. Properly made, absinthe should express the spirit, the energies, of each plant used in it. I would even go so far as to say that the components of a well-made absinthe should come together as one energy, a vital being that would be the "fairy" of the drink.
|By Destiny on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 09:44 pm: Edit|
Okay, wait. How about talking to your teacher and setting up an L.A. based gathering/interview at the Playboy mansion? I'm thinking a few hotties, a dark little booth. No cameras, no recorders, just a pen and paper. I'll bring the spoons and the beverages, you can watch and write.
|By Pikkle on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 09:39 pm: Edit|
post your email address narc and you may get a few more responses, less flippant and more candid... but try to discredit anyone on this board and you'll be as good as shit here...
|By Destiny on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 09:18 pm: Edit|
So, there are only two choices?
(1) An outright hit-piece like the wnbc story
(2) Calling the Feds, asking what you already know and possibly causing problems?
To be honest, it doesn't sound like love or fascination to me. It sounds like good ol' sensationalism. Just get a couple of bottles and have that teacher hook you up with Miss August.
|By Sicboy13 on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 08:55 pm: Edit|
p.s. go thru the threads till ya get to the one called "Look for the green fairy" Good luck, the answers lie DEAD ahead
|By Sicboy13 on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 08:46 pm: Edit|
your not having fun? answers to follow....
#4 yes, i saw the fairy on this forum a few days ago, pretty f'n freaky. Sic
|By Iamadonut on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 08:35 pm: Edit|
Sorry to ramble, but I just wanted to add something.
Would you rather have an article written about absinthe by someone who knows nothing about it, who is working for the Devil (aka Michael Eisner) and doesn't have any journalistic integrity?
or, behind Door #2,
Someone who is writing this out of a love and fascination for the subject?
I'm trying to be fair here, but you guys are making it a wee bit difficult. Aren't we supposed to be having fun, here?
|By Iamadonut on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 08:31 pm: Edit|
Seen the video clip -- good for a laugh, bad to see what poor journalism is capable of.
Never tried pernod pastis, but from what I've read, i don't need to go out and waste my money on a silly imposter. Unfortunately, I do not have a comfortable cash flow and have not been able to try any sort of Swiss absinthe, which I'm sure makes me inferior, an imposter and unworthy of this forum. I have tried some Czech crap (first purchase, never again) and Deva 70 and LaSala, both purchases from SC last summer.
As for M. Zman7's questions/comments,
Most of the journalism pieces I (we) have seen to date are either anti- absinthe or are only seeking to further the ridiculous hype, and are rife with errors.
Agreed. Just because I'm a journalist doesn't mean I'm oblivious to the fallacies of my own profession. But I'm sure everyone knows that the truth doesn't matter -- the only thing that matters are the slick images you see between the words "Weather up next" and "Our next story..."
If you spend any time reading this forum you will soon see that we are liberal& conservative, male & female; we come from many nations around the world,and we each have our own perspective as to why we like absinthe.
Agreed, as well. That's why I'm not content with just talking to one person, or even two people. having as many opinions, viewpoints, stories as possible is important in conveying the TRUTH. I can talk to one guy who drank absinthe and accidentally shot his grandmother and portray the drink as the evil to end all evils. End of story. But instead, I'm attempting to perhaps get a glimpse of this diversity, a small hint at what absinthe is about. But alas, it has been a difficult road... (But I am enjoying it, I assure you!)
Why are you choosing to write about absinthe?
Probably for the same reasons you people drink it, research it and talk about it. It fascinates me. Ever since I found out about it about 1.5 years ago, I've tried to satiate my curiosity about it by studying it, talking to people about it and trying it. I think absinthe has a bad rap in the press, and by doing more research into it I'm trying to write an article that can perhaps shed some light on the subject. Light unadulterated by corporate greed.
What research have you already partaken?
Meeting you folks, reading 100s of articles on it, reading History in a Bottle, talking to sellers and buyers. Nothing too Erin Brockovich-y, but I'm not basing this article on heresay. I'll leave that to Fox.
What is your "angle" in doing this story?
I'll let you know once I figure that out. Originally, it was to tell people what absinthe was about -- it's history, its role in society, its resurgence and its potential dangers, if any. Now, after talking to some people, that will most likely change.
What is the ultimate goal that you are seeking to accomplish with this article(besides a good grade)?
Cold. hard. Cash. And to expose the asinthe empire as having the potential to overtake the Scientologists as a haven for lonely movie stars!
...or maybe to get it published and ultimately feel good about myself for having written the best, most fair article I can. How's that for a warm fuzzy?
I hope you don't think me being antagonistic. I just have seen to many media hatchet jobs when it comes to absinthe.
Not at all -- every one of your questions is warranted and I'm glad to answer them.
|By Maldoror on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 08:09 pm: Edit|
A good way to see what not to do -- watch the video clip in this thread - "Wnbc 4 video for your viewing pleasure"
|By Heiko on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 08:04 pm: Edit|
I will gladly answer no. 3:
"3. Do you think you are doing something wrong by indulging in said substance?"
NO! Should I? (hint: I'm living in Germany)
|By Sicboy13 on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 07:17 pm: Edit|
if you like absinthe go out & get some Pernod pastis, you'll love it.
|By Zman7 on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 07:12 pm: Edit|
I think some, if not most, of the forumites will be somewhat reticent to speak to someone in the journalism profession. Most of the journalism pieces I (we) have seen to date are either anti- absinthe or are only seeking to further the ridiculous hype, and are rife with errors. They do not go into the depth required to fully illustrate this beverage, or the people who consume it. There is no one type of person who enjoys absinthe. If you spend any time reading this forum you will soon see that we are liberal& conservative, male & female; we come from many nations around the world,and we each have our own perspective as to why we like absinthe. Let me ask you a question. Why are you choosing to write about absinthe? What research have you already partaken? What is your "angle" in doing this story? What is the ultimate goal that you are seeking to accomplish with this article(besides a good grade)?
I hope you don't think me being antagonistic. I just have seen to many media hatchet jobs when it comes to absinthe.
|By Pikkle on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 06:42 pm: Edit|
why don't you just have people email you mr. narc?
|By Iamadonut on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 06:09 pm: Edit|
yeah, it's me again, the FDA-calling batphone-activating absinthe villian pseudo-journalist.
If I may, I'd like to ask a pretty (innocent?) series of questions:
1. How did you find out about absinthe?
2. What was your first drinking experience like?
3. Do you think you are doing something wrong by indulging in said substance?
4. Does the green fairy really exist? (Man, I can't wait for the smart-ass answers to this one!)
I might use one/some of these responses in my article. And for paranoia's sake, I will credit these responses to your Forum name, allowing you to forever hide behind said moniker. Besides, wouldn't it look cool to contribute a quote to "Rimbaud"?
As always, thank you.
(Now you may commence to flame and ridicule me.)Woo!
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