Now this makes me ANGRY!

Sepulchritude Forum: The Absinthe Forum Archive Thru March 2002: Archive thru February 2002:Now this makes me ANGRY!
By Bjacques on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 10:27 pm: Edit

I gathered the point of 9/11 was to ignite a final war between the West and the Arab world, which makes them the moral equivalent of Charles Manson trying to be Hassan i Sabbah, only without the drugs and sex. It didn't work. Their goal was so far beyond making life suck a little harder for Americans that I doubt the surviving terrorists consider this a victory condition. They're being treated a lot better than they'd be treated in Saudi Arabia. Their friends the Taliban got a country shot out from under them. That lesson wasn't lost on Saddam Hussein. If he's trying anything, he'd better be more devious than he's ever been. He'll just keep jeering from the sidelines and he knows it. Why jeopardize his little domain by inviting an invasion?

Too bad about the General. I'm glad he stood his ground. The rest of us might not fare so well in a similar standoff, so wait until you get home to do your serious complaining, to the airline, the airport officials, the security company and to your Congressbeings.

By Wormwood on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 09:27 pm: Edit

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Quote:
Please take your ill informed left wing rhetoric over to Iran, I'm sure they'd be happy to accomodate you in any way you please...


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Unless of course you are a male heterosexual, then you might be out of luck.

By Destiny on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 09:26 am: Edit

I completetely agree with Baz. The point of the 9/11 attacks weren't just to destroy buildings and kill some people, it was to wreak havoc on our way of life, and it has. We love to beat other countries into submission and extoll the virtues of democracy and "freedom", yet the government quickly tosses the Constitution aside when the going gets *a little* rough and we're okay with that. Racism and racial profiling are now okay too, and we're okay with that as well. We're randomly throwing millions of dollars at these agencies rather than first calling for acountability for the millions that they have already been given.

We lost less than 4,000 people in the attacks, yet in the U.S. alone, we lose hundreds of thousands of lives yearly to heart disease directly related to diet and smoking. In one year that's probably more lives lost than in the last 20 years of terrorist activity worldwide combined. Why is this suddenly the biggest thing on Earth? I feel as if the rest of the world is secretly laughing at us - we're this big bad-ass country, but we get our nose bloodied a bit and we want to lock-down the world and kill everyone... everyone that we're not doing business with, that is.

By Baz on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 08:30 am: Edit

Nothing pisses me off worse than the suggestion that my rights as guaranteed by the constitution should be abridged for ANY reason. Other countries can do what they want, and when I'm there I recognize that those rights don't exist. But to tell me that the actions of some extremists will be an excuse to take away my freedom is an indication that the extremists are winning.

As long as we are willing to give those freedoms that were attacked away, for some superficial feeling that we are safer (when we are not) I will continue to think that we are going to lose this little war. Even if we kill every terrorist in the world. When they attacked us in an attempt to destroy our freedoms and we willingly handed those freedoms over, they achieved their goals. WITH OUR HELP.

By _Blackjack on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 11:41 pm: Edit

There was eventually a second female Smurf, Sassette, who was, like Smurfette, created artificially. Sassette, however, was a child, a smurfling.

Ah, they were all a bunch of commies anyway...

By Mr_Rabid on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 10:10 pm: Edit

Well, Handy and Vanity were queer as Elton John, anyway.

I always rooted for Gargamel, myself.

By Destiny on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 09:33 pm: Edit

Since 9/11, I've been 20 or 30 times to the Sun Microsystems building in Universal City, CA (Universal Pictures HQ, supposedly one of the west coast "target" buildings) Since the week after attacks, they have had incredible "security". Driving into underground parking they check your car, your trunk and have mirrors for under you car. They've erected concrete barriers around the entire front of the building have a giant mobile x-ray station all packages entering this 23 story building. When you walk in, they have almost 10 guards checking purses, backpacks, briefcases, etc. Even with all this, I guarantee you that after going through it only once, anyone with half a brain could EASILY get almost anything into that building or parking garage. It's all a show. The more real they make the threat, the easier it is to eliminate those pesky civil rights, reapportion the budget and go wild with foreign policy.

I'd be more outraged by the 9/11 attacks if I didn't think that there was something more there than just a random terrorist act. Either our law enforcement and intelligence agencies are completely incompetent or there is something else going on. I bet the President's daddy knows.

By Meat_Nipples on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 09:32 pm: Edit

You know there was only one female in Smurf-dom, or at least as far as I can remember. Either most of them were gay or Smurfette got some serious action.

By Mr_Rabid on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 09:18 pm: Edit

"Anyway, as I said, the anthrax killings are proof enough that not all of our enemies are external. "

What I am trying to say is that the effectiveness of racial, ethnic profiling, deportation, camps, whathaveyou, is not relevant here.

Because then we would be living in a country I wouldn't want to live in.

Because our enemies *aren't* all external.

Today, they come for the arab who ran the quickie mart down the street. And Pikkle doesn't give a shit.

Tomorrow, they come for- fill in the blank and hope it isn't filled in with you?

Fuck that!

Because what is next is internal threats.

Like all the people in wacky cults, or all the people who rent the wrong kind of movies and read the wrong books. Or all the faggots or jews or atheists or irish or pinkos or?

Anyone they can classify as an 'internal threat to national security.'

That is you, if you are reading this. Whoever you are.

By Pan on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 09:08 pm: Edit

Does anyone else think Papa Smurf was a pediphile? Or at least a homosexual? I wonder if he would be stopped by airport security. Just a thought.

By Raschied on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 08:15 pm: Edit

To get back on the subject of airport security, I've flown roughly 45 times since Sept 11, and every single time, I've been carrying a 2 inch serrated edge knife with me as carry-on luggage, and they have never found it or confiscated it from me. I've even gotten the at-the-gate-turn-your-head-and-cough extra "random" search, and they still haven't found it.

When you can show me a prison that has NO contraband smuggled in, then these search tactics will work. Until then, it's masturbation to make the politicians and the other ignorants feel good about "safety."

I have now wasted roughly 4 days, 6 hours of my life because of this stupid charade, and I'm sick of it.

By Don_Walsh on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 08:03 pm: Edit

Some redirect is in order.

"Racial profiling" is illegal and abhorrent.

Islamic Americans are not the enemy.

Islam is not the enemy.

The enemy are terrorists who happen to be Islamic, at least in name, although everything they do is an affront to Islam.

Over-reacting against innocent people is stupid.

Putting a US Secret Service agent of the WH Detail off a flight because a fucking STEW was 'uncomfortable' with his being armed, because he was an Arab-American, is RIDICULOUS and the matter is I believe headed for the civil courts. I hope the airline takes it in the ass.

Airport security has largely, until now, been the province of lowest-big rentacop companies employing minimum wage workers who would otherwise have found their niche in janitorial engineering or maybe fast food service.

It will take some time to even begin to professionalize this.

I don't want to hear talk of internment camps. The internment of Japanese Americans in WWII was confined to the West Coast, was a national disgrace, and was really mandated by the states concerned. J.Edgar Hoover wanted nothing to do with it and said it had nothing to do with national security. And old J.Edgar was not much of a civil libertarian.

Do Yemenis need visas to enter Yemen?

I once, not so long ago, was returning to Thailand from USA and was told by the ticket clerk that I needed a visa in my passport for Thailand or they wouldn't seat me. Well, US citizens do NOT need a visa to enter Thailand, and in any case I had a valid Re-Entry Permit for the 1990 visa that Thailand had continuously extended for the subsequent 10 years...I had to get a supervisor over who understood these little niceties. No one ever said that airline ticket clerks were supposed to be experts in Thailand immigration law, and this one sure wasn't, he just thought he was!! He was just a jumped up officious self important dweeb.

And I was seated, and here I am. (It was a Taiwanese airline, not THAI.)

By _Blackjack on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 07:56 pm: Edit


Quote:

Please take your ill informed left wing rhetoric over to Iran, I'm sure they'd be happy to accomodate you in any way you please...



Because they are so friendly to leftists in Iran...? Maybe you meant the Netherlands? Or Denmark? California?

By _Blackjack on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 07:45 pm: Edit


Quote:

nice to know whose side your on in this war.



I'm on the side of the human race, freedom and justice. You?

I find it terribly amusing that I am being accused of being a traitor because I am suggesting the innocent people should not have thier rights abridged because of the actions of the terrorists. I haven't said a thing about what I think should be done to the GUILTY parties...

By _Blackjack on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 07:43 pm: Edit


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Oh civil rights is not a protection from other individuals or groups?



I said the purpose of ENUMERATING civil rights was not for protection from individuals. The government's power to enforce its will is so much greater than that of individuals that it must be expressly limited and controlled. That is why there are specific enumerations of the rights of those accused of crimes, but not of those of the victim: the rights of the victim are not in danger of being abridged BY THE GOVERNMENT.

By Pikkle on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 07:34 pm: Edit

Oh civil rights is not a protection from other individuals or groups? You'd better whip out your law books then, or would like me to cite the volumes of laws regarding this topic? Please take your ill informed left wing rhetoric over to Iran, I'm sure they'd be happy to accomodate you in any way you please... nice to know whose side your on in this war.

By _Blackjack on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 07:32 pm: Edit


Quote:

The fact is ethnicity does provide a good benchmark for this particular threat because they do not have a lot of non-middle easteren operatives willing to die.



Been in the South Phillipines lately?

Anyway, as I said, the anthrax killings are proof enough that not all of our enemies are external.

By _Blackjack on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 07:30 pm: Edit


Quote:

as for internment camps, if it can prevent another episode like 9/11 or worse, I'm all for it.



If you want to live in a country where the basic rights of the individual are sacrficed in the name of preserving order, I can suggest quite a few in the Middle East.

I am doing my best not to invoke Godwin's Law here, so I will posit this: how far would you go to prevent another 9/11? What measures would you consider justified?


Quote:

Let me know when a member of your family get's whacked by terrorists how you feel about civil rights.



I nearly lost the father of a dear friend, and did lose friends-of-friends. And I can guarantee you that nothing, not even the threat of my own death, would change my position on human rights.


Quote:

Yeah, what happened to the civil rights of the people who were killed?



Um, the purpose of enumerating rights is to protect people from the actions of the GOVERNMENT, not to protect them from actions of individuals.

By Mr_Rabid on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 07:27 pm: Edit

The fact is ethnicity does provide a good benchmark for this particular threat because they do not have a lot of non-middle easteren operatives willing to die.

Thank god they didn't make better use of their Englishman or their Australian, huh?

The question is, while this is a good measurement, do we want to pay the price of it's use?

What if your wife was from Iran? Your adopted kid from Pakistan? That interment camp still sound like a good idea?

By Elbongo on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 07:23 pm: Edit

Your comparison is ridiculous and to quote a fellow poster who's opinion I agree with,
You are


Quote:

naïve buddy, get off your computer and go out in the world once in a while


By _Blackjack on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 07:12 pm: Edit

I am unsure of what "facts" I am ignoring. Do you have some documentary evidence that dark-skinned people are somehow more prone to acts of violence?

Let's simplyfy the question a bit. Let's assume the situation was the same, except, instead of Arab and Egyptian, the hijackers were red-haired, blue-eyed Afghans, blonde Albanians (I knew a guy named Fatmir in college who looked like a Nordic god), black Sudanese, and Malays from the Phillipines and Indonesia, all groups with plenty of Islamist extremism and anti-American sentiment. Would we then be justified in singling out people fitting all of THESE descriptions? That's almost everybody.

By Alphasoixante on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 07:02 pm: Edit

"And who were the perps of 9/11? Middle Eastern men."

Shouldn't that be: "WHAT were the 'perps'of 9/11?"?

Somehow your phrasing seems to indicate that Middle Eastern Man (en masse) did it. But then your attitude indicates that as well, so...

By Elbongo on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 06:59 pm: Edit

I have mixed feelings about the US dealings with the Chinese. After much debate with my Taiwanese friend and some reading on how the Chinese economy historically works, I have swayed a little more towards the side that the best solution is to engage in commerce. Still not 100% sold yet.

By Pikkle on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 06:58 pm: Edit

Ethnicity had everything to do with this... to think otherwise is naïve buddy, get off your computer and go out in the world once in a while... and as for internment camps, if it can prevent another episode like 9/11 or worse, I'm all for it. Let me know when a member of your family get's whacked by terrorists how you feel about civil rights. Yeah, what happened to the civil rights of the people who were killed? Their families? Their friends? They had none. Eye for and eye, this is what 'these people' understand. If you don't, read the Koran sometime, talk to an Iranian or Yemenese like I have to everyday, you'll see how much ethnicity has to do with it...

By Destiny on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 06:49 pm: Edit

It's funny how the US is in bed with the Chinese because we want their markets soooooo bad!

By Elbongo on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 06:46 pm: Edit


Quote:

Let's start with the Germans, Russians and Japanese!

No "ethnicity" is involved in the WTC/P attacks. Specific individuals with a specific agenda were involved. Their ethnicity had nothing to do with it.




You sir are about 60 years too late with the former and ignoring the facts with the latter.

By Heiko on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 06:43 pm: Edit

That is the main problem about fighting a war against an abstract noun like "terrorism" - you can't say who is your enemy and who is not...

Just like in case of cancer, the enemy comes from within and all you can do is apply chemotherapy which might as well kill all your good cells...

Of course in this case, the security personnel must have been plain stupid - unfortunately stupidity is something you will often be faced with when dealing with security personnel...

By _Blackjack on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 06:41 pm: Edit


Quote:

Personally, I don't care who gets offended or bothered if a particular ethnicity identified as being involved with one of the most heinous crimes ever gets harassed, searched, seized, etc. to no end.



Cool. Let's start with the Germans, Russians and Japanese!

No "ethnicity" is involved in the WTC/P attacks. Specific individuals with a specific agenda were involved. Their ethnicity had nothing to do with it.


Quote:

Fuck that shit, it's war and civil rights mean very little in time of war...



And thus, you get internment camps. Or worse.

By Destiny on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 06:35 pm: Edit

True, air travel is not a "civil right". However, as society forces us into particular lifestyles, certain things should be given status akin to a right. Personally, I think that driving should be a right, not a "privilege" as the DMV loves to point out. Fuck that, in California, mass transportation is a joke and a car is almost vital to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Therefore, it should be a right or have similar status.

I thought that it was an outrage when those middle easterners were kicked off that plane a couple of months ago because a couple of people were uncomfortable. If someone felt uncomfortable, then *they* should have left the plane. Would that work with a black guy in baggy pants and a bandana?

More security at the airports is a good idea, it always has been. X-ray luggage, scan for weapons or bomb chemicals, great. But the crap they're putting people through now is just for show and it's bullshit. I'm sure people wouldn't mind packing their pens and nail files in their luggage if the dumb ass airlines wouldn't lose baggage.

By _Blackjack on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 06:33 pm: Edit

"The son of an English mother and Jamaican father, Mr Reid was born in 1973 in the London suburb of Bromley."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1731000/1731568.stm

I seem to recall he was incorrectly identified as Sri Lankan early in the case. I don't deny that he seems to have been involved in Al Qua'eda, but racial profiling wouldn't have stopped him.

The Yemenis were detained because they had purchased one-way tickets at the same travel agent. It was not until after they were detained that it was discovered that SOME of them did not have visas to enter Yemen. I somehow doubt that a European going to a European country would have been stopped for having a one-way ticket.

By Pikkle on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 06:33 pm: Edit

Personally, I don't care who gets offended or bothered if a particular ethnicity identified as being involved with one of the most heinous crimes ever gets harassed, searched, seized, etc. to no end. I don't care. I had family in that fucking building when those idiots hit it, it's personal with me and I've flown enough since then to tell you for a fact that not one single person of Middle Eastern descent or even dark skin was stopped and searched, questioned or otherwise. And this is Detroit Metro, an area with the highest concentration of persons of Middle Eastern descent in the whole fucking United States. Believe what the media tells you you fucking sheep... scrutiny my ass, it's gonna be up to the passengers on those planes to defend themselves the next time they take some old man's medals away because the powers that be don't want to hurt anyone's feelings yet show their on the job. Fuck that shit, it's war and civil rights mean very little in time of war, especially for the enemy or their potential allies. Remember the reports about cheering in the streets when the planes hit? You can believe those...

By Elbongo on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 06:30 pm: Edit

Gen. Foss is an American Hero. Including and since WWII there have a little over 800 Medal of Honor winners, with about 60% of them being awarded posthumous.

Any US soldier is required to salute a Medal of Honor recipient when they are wearing the award. Only then would it be possible to see a 5 star General saluting a Private.

By Don_Walsh on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 06:23 pm: Edit

Oh. What about the connections to the Brixton mosques, etc?

By Don_Walsh on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 06:21 pm: Edit

He's an 86 yr old retired general, CMH winner, and they tried to take his Congressional Medal of Honor away from him -- and DESTROY -- it because it has 'sharp edges'?

Hell, Gen.Foss, maybe you should have been flying for Japan instead...

I've got news for you, they don't give away the CMH for shits and grins. It's not the Green Weenie (Army Commendation Medal). A whole lot of them are awarded posthumously, and all of them were paid for by the wearer's blood, sweat and tears.

By Elbongo on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 06:18 pm: Edit

Don,

The initial news reports identified Reid as a Sri Lankan, but were later corrected to say Reid was a British citizen with British and Jamaican parents.

By Don_Walsh on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 06:12 pm: Edit

The shoe bomber is half Sri Lankan not Jamaican and he is Al-Qaeda.

Where's all this 'Jamaican' shit come from?

By Elbongo on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 06:08 pm: Edit

"There was a recent case where a whole plane-load of Yemanis weren't allowed to board because they were (gasp!) going to Yemen! "

The Yemeni passengers were not allowed to board cause they did not have the proper visas, not because of who they were or where they were going.

By _Blackjack on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 05:56 pm: Edit


Quote:

getting stopped at the airports? White people...



Bullshit. Sure, white people are getting stopped, because most of the people in this country are white. But Middle Eastern and South Asian people are getting MUCH more scrutiny. There was a recent case where a whole plane-load of Yemanis weren't allowed to board because they were (gasp!) going to Yemen! Not to mention Hispanics, Itlian-Americans, and even a Polish-American, who have gotten kicked off of planes for being "dark".

There are plenty of white terrorists, m'boy. The Shoe Bomber guy, for one (OK, he is half Jamaican, but he isn't Middle Eastern). The law-abiding Middle-Eastern (and people who might be mistaken for Middle-Eastern) people in this country had nothing to do with the attacks on us, and should not be punished for them.

If the attacks had been carried out by white supremacists or other right wing whackos (who have been known to blow up innocent people too, you know), would you be calling for more intensive searches of crackers? How about the Irish? We know THEY'RE a bunch of bomb-tossing drunks...

I have no problem with increased security; air travel is not a civil right. However, when you start singling people out for a percieved religious or ethnic affiliation, that bothers me.

By Mvario on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 05:12 pm: Edit

I'm angry, but also glad to see it happen to see it happen to someone who can maybe bring some light upon this bullshit. That kind of stuff has been happening way too often

A few have gotten exposure...

Man was kept off flight because of a book he was carrying
http://www.ufoxfiles.com/newsitem.asp?newskey=25
http://www.citypaper.net/articles/101801/news.godfrey.shtml

Green Party Activist Denied Chicago Flight
http://www.bushnews.com/airline.htm

Arab-American Secret Service agent removed from American Airlines flight
http://detnews.com/2001/nation/0112/27/nation-376943.htm

but way too many go unmentioned in the press. And it keeps happening. And if your a leftist or a young rebel type or, god forbid, arabic descent no one gives a shit.

And the thing is 99% of the so-called security measures do NOTHING to increase security, they're window dressing, smoke and mirrors, only there to "make people ~feel~ saver.

I've hear firsthand accounts of people stripped of nail clippers, pens, tweazers... it's beyond ludicrous. And most people, at least when they show reports interviewing people at the airport, put up with it because they ~feel~ safer. Aarrgghh!

And until they start pulling rich white guys out of the line and making them take off their belts and shoes it's going to keep on happening.

Remember the shoe bomb guy. Well if the terroristcommunity really wanted to accomplish anything and piss everyone off he would have hid the explosives up his butt instead of in his shoe. Then, in their close-the-barn-door-after-the-cows-are-gone mentality, the airlines would start making passengers drop trou. See how long this crap goes on when some minimum-wage airport security drone tell the CEO of GM that he's sobject to a full body cavity search!

By Pikkle on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 04:44 pm: Edit

yeah, sure, if the 9/11 incident never happened, you'd have seen no increased airport security whatsoever. And who were the perps of 9/11? Middle Eastern men. Who's getting stopped at the airports? White people... I've flown many times since 9/11 and not once have I seen any other ethnicity get extra scrutiny. Why? Because not to do so would be insensitive to Arab Americans... give me a fucking break, this is a war and I could give two rats asses if every single person of Middle Eastern decent gets the thrice around before boarding the plane, we didn't invite this thing, it was propelled upon us, and by whom? Persons of Middle Eastern decent. Ask me if I really care if they feel insulted...

By Dutch on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 04:43 pm: Edit

It doesn't surprise me. Airport security personnel are only the messengers of the raging hysteria that is permeating every facit of American life.
I am a nurse and work in a large metropolitan hospital. After the series of anthrax mail incidents, all nurses and doctors attended a series of 'safety' meetings. The expert clinician on communicable disease ended her presentation by telling us that 'you can never be TOO safe...' and that she never opens envelopes without first putting on surgical gloves, and using a pair of tweezers, to open the envelope. Some of my colleagues actually took this paranoid load of crap to heart and began opening their own mail with gloves and tweezers!
This isn't the only example I can site (for instance the War on Drugs is another) that signifies our mass stampede away from individual responsibility and freedom of speech, movement, and thought.
Home of the Brave, Land of the Free.
Pathetic. Sad.

By _Blackjack on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 04:37 pm: Edit


Quote:

I love that as an act of sensitivity towards certain minorities, airport security now gives the once overs to little old ladies and business men in Armani suits too... that's really fucking swell...



That's funny. I love that Americans don't get outraged about trangressions of their rights until it happens to a white person. Obviously this was an absurd situation, but this guy was in no danger of being unfairly arrested, detained or deported, which cannot be said for members of "certain minorities".

Listen: we have every reason to think that the person sending anthrax around is a well-educated white man. Business men in Armani suits are just as capable of acts of violence as those swarthy, middle eastern types.

By Meat_Nipples on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 04:25 pm: Edit

That is very ironic. They stop this guy and treat him like some kind of terrorist and then find out he is your prototypical perfect American. Maybe after that incident they will be more tactful in how they treat people when they have to search them. But I sincerley doubt it. I fear this kind of mistreatment in the name of security is only going to worsen in the years to come.

By Pikkle on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 04:21 pm: Edit

I love that as an act of sensitivity towards certain minorities, airport security now gives the once overs to little old ladies and business men in Armani suits too... that's really fucking swell...

By Perruche_Verte on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 04:04 pm: Edit

So -- a bolo tie, Western hat and gun collectors' belt buckle put you on some kind of security alert?

Next time I fly, I'm wearing a kaffiyeh, black beret and sunglasses, just to see what happens.

By Destiny on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 04:02 pm: Edit

That really sucks. What makes me just as angry is that if it was an average Joe like any of us, the incident would go by unnoticed. No news report, no phone call from the VP, nothing.

By Petermarc on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 03:30 pm: Edit

morons

By Pikkle on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 03:28 pm: Edit

War is hell man...

By Don_Walsh on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 03:25 pm: Edit

http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/02/27/war.hero.cnna/index.html

And I hope it makes you angry, too.

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