Archive through March 19, 2002

Sepulchritude Forum: The Absinthe Forum Archive Thru March 2002: Archive thru March 2002:Where is the king of hellfire?:Archive through March 19, 2002
By Head_Prosthesis on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 04:13 pm: Edit

What a bunch of Kitten Killers.

By Chevalier on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 04:07 pm: Edit

"... the young eastern european lady ..."

Etienne, your politeness and discretion is most admirable. ;-)

In that spirit, let us find new words for the old:

C*cks*cker = Memberpleaser
*sshole = Rearguard evacuator
Nazi = National Socialism supporter
C*nt = Heaven's door
F*cker = Knocker on Heaven's door
B*tch = Milady is unpleasant

Etc., etc.

By Mr_Rabid on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 04:03 pm: Edit

It's like this: Web forums tend to be a whole lotta nothing. In other words, an insipid way to waste some time.

This board is like nothing I have seen- people here get together in the real world. They start businesses together, do each other favors, hang out. They inspire one another to make art, poetry, they trade ideas that actually sometimes change minds.

In other words, this place is not an insipid waste of time.

It's the digital equivalent of the Paris cafe scene- artists, thinkers, drunks, reflecting each other's light into something different and often brighter.

If the actions of one person, Don in this case, tend to diminish the forum overall by scaring people off, fuck it and ban him. Same would go for me.

As to Don's rants- sometimes they entertain, sometimes they bore me. I love his stories. His absinthe knowledge is worth hearing.

And sometimes he's a fucking jerk. I don't know if he doesn't realize that some of the things he says can genuinely hurt people's feelings or doesn't care.

Bottom line- if there's a guy in the bar chasing away the customers by behaving in an ungentalmanly way, the bartender should bounce his ass.

I hope Don comes back. And I hope he's not going to act like a jerk when he does.

By Rowl on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 03:54 pm: Edit

As a newbie who had just recently read the forum rules and then witnessed Don's behaviour I asked myself several times why the hell this guy still had an account.

If he could just keep his language polite I'd have no problem with him. I like having a curmudgeon around, they're good for laughs and Don has a lot of exceptional information as well. He may have been overdue for a paddling but I hope he comes back.

By Etienne on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 03:23 pm: Edit

LordH;

My friend, you misunderstand my meaning. I was refering to the two occasions when the young eastern european lady demanded your removal from the forum.

I agree with you, it is a scummy thing to do.

By Angryp on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 02:39 pm: Edit

I'm a little conflicted. On one hand, Don is a great asset to the form insofar as he does know quite a bit about the fairy.

On the other hand, in the nine or 10 months I've been lurking on the board, his behavior has often been abrasive far beyond what I would consider appropriate for an open forum.

Several times he has been provoked, and one can hardly fault him for a tart rejoinder now and then. However, much of his ire has been directed at what would seem to be quite innocent questions and opinions. Overall, the amount of vitriol directed at various people here have made these forums a lot less hospitable than they could be.

Don seems to have the habit of posting when his blood's up. That might not be a problem when he's replying to folks he already knows and is (at least moderately) friendly with. I call my friends assholes all the time. They know I don't mean anything by it, and there's no harm, no foul. Directing contemptuous replies and flames against new members and first time posters is out of bounds, IMHO.

If I had to come up with one bit of advice for Don (and if he were inclined to listen to me :) ), I'd say that he's the one who should grow a thicker skin and not leap to take offense as quickly as he does. Also, the gentlemanly response to being baited is to ignore it or to reply civilly. Even if the person doing the baiting or flaming isn't acting in a civilized manner, that's no excuse to fly off the handle and start cussing back.

I've been doing computer conferencing since the early 80's. The only thing that keeps boards like this one useable is if its users behave, act in a civilized manner and censor themselves. Anything else, and things rapidly devolve into viscous name calling and kindergarten-like behavior.

My interactions with Don have been pretty civil, and I have no complaint on that account. Any disagreements he and I may have had have been pretty low-key and were never that unpleasant, even if I continue to disagree with him about Verisinthe! ;)

I would like to see him return to the forums. His posts are usually very informative and I'd like to continue to benefit from his experience.

By Lordhobgoblin on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 02:22 pm: Edit

Ettiene,

Who has demanded that Don be run off the forum? Demanding that people be run off the forum is a scummy thing to do.

When Kallisti introduced the rule I agreed with her. A few people vocally disagreed with her but not many. If one agreed with her when she introduced the rule (or didn't vocally oppose it) then one becomes a hypocrite if one then opposes it when the rule is applied to someone they like. It should make no difference whether the transgressor is a good guy or an arsehole, whether he has a lot to contribute here or not, whether he is an old-timer or a newbie, whether we like him or not.

Kallisti has the right to make the rules around here. If you are aware of the rules then when posting here you are under the jurisdiction of her rules. If you then break the rules you recieve a sanction. I recently got a parking ticket for parking illegaly, I knew I was parking illegaly and I got caught. Whose fault was it? Mine. Have I been treated unfairly? No. Am I pissed off? A bit, but that's the way it goes.

It's not about Don and I don't want to be highlighted as supporting the banning of Don. My stance here has absolutely nothing to do with Don or anything that he has said. It's not about personalities and has nothing to do with the actions of any forumite. I supported Kallisti when she introduced the rule so I have to support her when she applies it (regardless of who she applies it to).

Hobgoblin
(Don, I look forward to your return)

By Timk on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 02:22 pm: Edit

"Don never demanded that someone he didn't like be run off the forum."

no, he ran them off himself, what about Absintheur?

And if Don is not man enough to admit he was out of line, and to return to the forum and start posting, then thats his loss, not ours, and it really says something about him.

By Louched_Liver on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 02:20 pm: Edit

I thought Don's rants were usually boring and uncalled for, which made them even more boring. I thought he should be more civil, guess that makes me Hitler, or not "rock and roll". When he was obviously making an effort to abide by the rules, he was pretty damn entertaining.
I doubt if the little fund drive for Kallisti netted much of anything in the way of defraying her costs, not to mention the cost of her time. Once again, it's rightly her joint, live w/it or take it on the arches. Try to find a better place to do this here thing we do. Come back and tell us when you find it.
Why don't you guys give it up about Vera? You don't like her shit, ignore it. It has her name on it. Pass on by. I don't care for everything everyone posts here, her stuff included, nobody does. It's too wide ranging in scope and quality.
I never said censor or boot Don, I said I wished he'd censor himself to some extent, that is being civil. If someone acted like him in a bar or party, he'd be all by his lonesome, or with a foot up his ass. Yeah, this is cyberspace, but why use that flimsy excuse to be a jerk? Especially when the host has said she doesn't want that kind of behavior?

By Head_Prosthesis on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 01:37 pm: Edit

Marc,

The Fear? Acid heads get "the fear".

You can be mean and get your point across without being an asshole, listen to Car Talk and
you'll see what I'm saying.

By Admin on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 01:28 pm: Edit

heh, no, I want more of a paragraph. I'm not stupid, just silly.

By Baz on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 01:24 pm: Edit

Kallisti-
So you really want to waste all the space it would take to convert "don't be an asshole" into lawyer speak? It would take about a page, and nobody would read it, understand it, or care about it.

By Admin on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 01:15 pm: Edit

Thank you, Marc ... all ya'll need to know that these decisions don't happen in a vacuum. I've resisted formal rules for years because basically I feel the same as you do. But during all those years I have been bombarded with these issues behind the scenes over and over again. Trust me, this is my last ditch effort, and done with a balance tilting towards more control in the forum from forumites. I'm a very unsophisticated thermometer, I admit ...

Any lawyers out there? I'd like to convert the "don't be an asshole" etc rule to lawyer speak. heh.

By Admin on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 01:08 pm: Edit

Also, I think you're overlooking that Don is not banned for good. He could post now if he wanted to. But he's decided that he doesn't want to play by my very basic rules.

*shrug*

By Marccampbell on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 01:07 pm: Edit

behave?

what the fuck does that mean?

I left home and school because I didn't want to "behave".

is that really you head?
and when did you get the fear?

By Etienne on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 01:06 pm: Edit

Don never demanded that someone he didn't like be run off the forum.

I know who I'd rather have as a house guest.

By Marccampbell on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 01:05 pm: Edit

I'm looking forward to reading what Don has to say about all this. If and when he returns.

By Head_Prosthesis on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 01:04 pm: Edit

If people don't want to behave. Fuck'em.
Go away or pay the consequences.

By Marccampbell on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 01:02 pm: Edit

kallisti,

I don't envy your position. Do what you must.
I love and respect you. This is a great website, a work of art really. You've taken it this far and I trust that under your guidance it will outlast all of these dramas.

By Chevalier on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 12:58 pm: Edit

Head wrote:
"Like you once said...
Who cares?"

Well, for starters, your friend Marc Campbell does.

By Head_Prosthesis on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 12:57 pm: Edit

I have no problem with what Kallisti did.

You folks can't control yourselves? Momma said knock you out.

By Admin on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 12:53 pm: Edit

I'm sorry, it's not about me banning Don, it's about Don breaking the rules. The rules are "don't be an asshole" and if you are, you get to stand in the corner for awhile. If you are repeatedly an asshole, then you get to go bye-bye.

Ya know, if *my* house was stinky filthy, and my closest friends started saying they wouldn't come over because it was disgusting, I might consider cleaning it up before telling them to take a hike. Perhaps you're different ... but personally it matters a great deal to me why people find it inhospitable here. If all that is left here is the "don's antics are cute and interesting like a car crash" then I think that is rather sad.

By Marccampbell on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 12:52 pm: Edit

the difference between getting in someone's face in a bar and doing it online is that in a bar there is a real threat of violence. here on the internet, its just words. I'm against banning.
I find vera's inane posts more offensive than all
of Don's bilious poesy. Love him or hate him, Don's got style. Bukowski had style. Lenny Bruce had style. Artaud had style. There are two folks who post here that I think have the potential to write a great novel; head prosthesis and Don.
I always look forward to their posts. The only bones I have to pick with Don is concerning guns and politics. But, I avoid those discussions.

artemis is also a really fine writer and I miss his posts.

By Head_Prosthesis on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 12:48 pm: Edit

Like you once said...
Who cares?

By Chevalier on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 12:36 pm: Edit

Kallisti wrote:
"The people who agree with me can't speak up because they're GONE. they don't post here, they've found a life beyond this measley little cyber-haunt, and chose to because of the sometimes vicious and reactionary atmosphere that often prevails."

It's a shame when certain people (and not others) choose to leave. But if they choose to, then they must be responsible for their choice. By leaving, they forfeit the perogative to influence the direction of the forum. It doesn't matter whether they agree with you at this moment or in the future (unless they return and start posting). These people, great though they may be, are offline, neither adding to nor distracting from today's Absinthe Forum. The question is, do the forumites who post here today, in 2002, agree with you in banning Don? Lord Hobgoblin does; any others?

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