Archive through March 26, 2002

Sepulchritude Forum: The Absinthe Forum Archive Thru March 2002: BETINA ELIXIRS ANNOUNCEMENT...NEW PERNOD ABSINTHE:Archive through March 26, 2002
By Don_Walsh on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 08:08 am: Edit

And what has already been done is the replication of two specific antique absinthe, with variations already in hand and more specific replications under way.

Those who have tasted them, and the originals, pronounce them a success.

Those who have tasted them without tasting the originals pronounce them splendid in their own right.

YOU have not tasted them and all you do is nay-say.

You are a jealous petty little chickenshit and all the forum is here to see that for themselves.

Get a life!

By Don_Walsh on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 08:04 am: Edit

Timk, FUCK OFF. You are the pathetic one. You know that Ted will only release what he chooses to release and no amount of prodding from your pathetic butt will achieve anything. You couldn't even be bothered to cross town to sample Jade when you had the chance so how can you expect anyone to take you seriously? You had to take care of your sick granny. Wow. How credible.

This is not a peer reviewed scientific journal, and you are not a chemist.

You are an obnoxious interloper with your own agenda, not a seeker after truth. Piss off, liar.

By Timk on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 07:29 am: Edit

"construct specious arguments as to why we can't possibly do what we have ALREADY in fact done."

Then, Don, please tell me, what have you infact done? a simple question.

By Timk on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 07:27 am: Edit

"So if you are interested in all that testing stuff sit down and solve that problem yourself.
Don´t ask a person who has invested a lot of
time and money in solving this problem to give
you the information for free."

Plus, I did not ask for his results, I just asked him what he had tested for, do you understand that? I didnt even ask for his method, just what he analysed for.

Ted says he has solved a problem, but he wont even tell us what the problem is. Ted is not the only person qualified to chemically analyse mixtures of essential oils, there are hundreds of labs capeable of soing so.

All I am asking is what has he analysed the fucking samples for. You butting in saying he wont tell me because it is a secret is just rediculous. Its like me designing and carrying out an experiment, then telling people that it worked out well, but never telling them what the experiment was.

Untill the data and method is released it has no credibility, all I did was speculate from the avaliable information, and then ask him to clarify, then you and Don jump in.

And regarding the antigravity car, i cant tell you what it is, you just have to believe me it works and i tested it.

By Aion on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 06:51 am: Edit

"Kallisti, how many people on this forum have more than one posting account?"

I have only one account with the name Aion,
there is my real name in my profile, some
people here can confirm that I am a real person. Don´t be paranoid.

I did not attack you, I did not insult you,
I just asked a question, like you ask many
questions.
So if you are interested in all that testing stuff
sit down and solve that problem yourself.
Don´t ask a person who has invested a lot of
time and money in solving this problem to give
you the information for free.

I know that Ted has solved the problems as I
had the chance to sample 2 of the Jade absinthes
against 2 vintage samples of the same brands.

As unfortunately the Jade samples were not
provided by the Jade crew, but another very
generous individual, I didn´t feel any need
of posting a review here.
But one thing is for sure, Ted HAS solved
the problems.


What on earth is an antigravity car???

By Timk on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 06:20 am: Edit

Aion, your post really pisses me off, why would you want me to blindly follow everything that someone says, ok, im going to make a statement. I expect you to believe me, and if you question me, I will personally attack you, and get offended.

I have made an antigravity car in my back yard, I have done extensive testing on the car.

By Timk on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 06:16 am: Edit

Jesus, you ask someone who says they are a scientist how they carry out testing and they get offended when you ask them, then you butt in saying I have some alterior motives.

You have no idea. Some people just find such things interesting, as is obvious the chemical testing is only a small part of producing a replica, and not strictly necessary, however when someone states they have carried out a detailed chemical analysis of a complicated mixture, I would like to know how, and what they analysed it for, any scientist making unsubstantiated claims without disclosing their methods can expect nothing less.

Kallisti, how many people on this forum have more than one posting account?

By Aion on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 05:38 am: Edit

TimK,
Maybe it is time, that you unveil a little
secret, your secret.
What is the real purpose you are planning
to use the information for, that information
you are whining for, that information Ted and
Don will never give you.
A.

By Timk on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 04:58 am: Edit

Don, piss off, I ask a scientist how he did what he did, and you get offended. You are pathetic. Ted said many times, that he had done complex chemical analysis on absinthe, and that he would release his research at a later date.

So far, all i have done is ask him what he has analysed, and he hasnt even answered that. All we know is that he has used a GC.

Basically this is like me saying, I have done some research into coke a cola.

You have no idea of even what I have looked at, did I look at sugar content, did I look at the chemical constituents, how did I analyse it, what did I conclude etc.

Anyone can say they have done complicated and detailed analysis of a complicated mixture of essential oils, they have absolutely no credibility unless they give details of how it was done.

There is so little (of use to recreating a vintage absinthe) you could gain from GC analysis of a sample like that that we can probably work out what information that he has gained, but saying it is an industrial secret is rediculous.

The research also has no validity unless the full method is disclosed, and can be repeated by others. FIne if he wants to wait till releasing it, but I dont expect his cronies to start at me when I question him on it or speculate as to his results.

By Don_Walsh on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 03:14 am: Edit

Yeah. Anything we say either gets used to compete against us, copy us, or construct specious arguments as to why we can't possibly do what we have ALREADY in fact done.

Not much incentive to talk about it much, then, is there?

By Pablo on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 12:35 am: Edit

I don't know dick about chemistry, herbs, distillation, analysis of old liquors, and very little about the history of absinthe. I do know that if Jade was my product I wouldn't say shit about how it was made, what it was made of or anything that someone could use to rip off my product. Thats basic business sense.

Also, "vintage" is a relative term. For a wine to be truely vintage the grapes would have to be crushed by a syphalitic peasants feet while she was dealing with a bad gastrointestinal problem from the rancid meat she ate. Modern techniques do have some advantages.

By Marccampbell on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 11:13 pm: Edit

Don,

you're goddamned loveable when you let your humor prevail. Keep me laughing, brother.

By Head_Prosthesis on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 10:53 pm: Edit

Aren't we all Don, aren't we all? Maybe it's the thujone?

By Don_Walsh on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 10:42 pm: Edit

timk's been yapping the same yap for years. I'm developing a Herbert Lom-like tic, a la Inspector Dreyfuss in RETURN OF THE PINK PANTHER.

By Wolfgang on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 05:53 pm: Edit

When will Mr K send some samples to at least one knowledgable hausgematchers here so that we could have an idea of the extend of his practical knowledge ?

That being said, I think Don is overreacting and that TimK is just yapping.

By Don_Walsh on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 04:50 pm: Edit

I'm getting tired of rewriting a "Critique of Pure Unreason"

timk needs to change his handle to Emmanuel Can't.

By Don_Walsh on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 04:08 pm: Edit

timk wants to talk analytical chemistry to death instead of actually ever DOING any.

Most of his "conclusions" are wrong. This is not surprising because he is not competent in the subject matter, and it is obvious to most observers here that he merely has an ax to grind, a la Ordinaire. Besides, like Ordinaire he proceeds from false assumptions.

timk has "established" NOTHING. Ted has, but what Ted has established is confidential, and is no one else's business but his and mine.

timk and Ordinaire seek to merely repeat their bullshit often enough that some credulous newbies believe it. This is Goebbels' old Big Lie technique, which served him well enough that he ended up feeding prussic acid to his wife and children in a bunker while Mongolian troops ravaged his capitol.

By Timk on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 11:40 am: Edit

"Not neccessary. All you need to know is how much essential oil is in the final product, which is determinable.

Compare this result to the amount of oil per ounce yeilded from the herbs available to you.

You now know how much anise to use, and it doesn't matter if it's the same amount of raw herb that used to be used because the oil output is all that matters."

This is flawed, as the constituent parts of the essential oil are found in vastly differing amounts from plant to plant, for example the essential oil extracted from fennel has more than 15 major constituents, which vary from plant to plant by a large degree.

By Mr_Rabid on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 11:28 am: Edit

" but gaining any idea of the amount of essential oil of anise extracted, or extrapolating this to the amount of herb used is surely fruitless. "

Not neccessary. All you need to know is how much essential oil is in the final product, which is determinable.

Compare this result to the amount of oil per ounce yeilded from the herbs available to you.

You now know how much anise to use, and it doesn't matter if it's the same amount of raw herb that used to be used because the oil output is all that matters.

Of course, that's only good for a guesstimate- the art of the thing comes from picking up and tasting, smelling an herb and getting an idea how much to use in your pot.

Which is why you gotta give props to people who distill their absinthe rather than mix from oils- it takes time to master that, and the only alternative would be exhaustive analysis of every batch of herbs you got in to figure out the amount to use, rather than going with your gut feeling. It would still be less efficient to do so.

Of course, I'm talking out of my ass here, but I do have a very erudite sphincter.

By Tabreaux on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 11:10 am: Edit

[You have stated that you have performed detailed chemical analysis of various vintage absinthes, so my question is what have you analysed them for?]

I cannot elaborate much further, as this is proprietary art, and is part of what makes Jade what it is. I can vouch however, that even with all the critical information in place, the process of successfully creating the desired result is quite tedious.


[...but gaining any idea of the amount of essential oil of anise extracted, or extrapolating this to the amount of herb used is surely fruitless.]

It is not fruitless, but is part of a complex problem that must be resolved from different angles, requiring a multidisciplinary approach. In any case, one can now understand the limitations of absinthe 'recipes'.

By Timk on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 08:34 am: Edit

So, we have established that there is vast variety in herb essential oil content, and we cannot know the essential oil content of the original herbs used via chemical analysis.

You have stated that you have performed detailed chemical analysis of various vintage absinthes, so my question is what have you analysed them for?

Absinthe is a highly complex mixture of different compounds.

Many of these compounds will be shared between different plant essential oil extracts.

Yes, there are many things that will allow you to identify that anise was used, for example, but gaining any idea of the amount of essential oil of anise extracted, or extrapolating this to the amount of herb used is surely fruitless.

All that I can see that could be gained from chemical analysis of the samples would be to say that certain herbs were used, if, as I now realise they do, essential oil contents vary so much from one plant to another of the same type, then it is surely not possible to extrapolate this to give some value to the amount of extract present in a bottle of absinthe.

Sorry if you dont like it Lordh, but to me this is interesting

By Timk on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 08:29 am: Edit

So, we have established that there is vast variety in herb essential oil content, and we cannot know the essential oil content of the original herbs used via chemical analysis.

You have stated that you have performed detailed chemical analysis of various vintage absinthes, so my question is what have you analysed them for?

Absinthe is a highly complex mixture of different compounds.

Many of these compounds will be shared between different plant essential oil extracts.

Yes, there are many things that will allow you to identify that anise was used, for example, but gaining any idea of the amount of essential oil of anise extracted, or extrapolating this to the amount of herb used is surely fruitless.

All that I can see that could be gained from chemical analysis of the samples would be to say that certain herbs were used, if, as I now realise they do, essential oil contents vary so much from one plant to another of the same type, then it is surely not possible to extrapolate this to give some value to the amount of extract present in a bottle of absinthe.

Sorry if you dont like it Lordh, but to me this is interesting

By Petermarc on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 07:12 am: Edit

i believe the marked difference in strength of absinthe grown in spain and that grown in northern france/switzerland helped create the mutant monster that is absenta today...may have also aided the eventual demise of pernod terragona, by switching over to local harvests instead of imported ones (statement based on my assumption that this happened)...

By Tabreaux on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 07:10 am: Edit

I can demonstrate two samples of A. absinthium (and many other herbs) that although appear to be identical in age, exhibit vastly different essential oil composition and content. This is not unusual. Consider that the same variety of grape grown in different soils exhibits surprisingly diverse differences in juice content.

By Timk on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 06:52 am: Edit

Sure im probably wrong but the way I look at it is anyone growing herbs for commercial sale is going to attempt to give them the best growing conditions avaliable, therefore the differences between sya for example absinthe grown in one region as oppssed to another would be minimised.

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