Archive through March 27, 2002

Sepulchritude Forum: The Absinthe Forum Archive Thru March 2002: The real recipe for original Pernod 68:Archive through March 27, 2002
By Dr_Ordinaire on Wednesday, March 27, 2002 - 09:22 am: Edit

Thanks for the offer, Don, but I did not accuse YOU of being a fake. You are an asshole.

I think that Ted is a fake, and I'm still waiting for HIS published, peer-reviewed papers.

By Don_Walsh on Wednesday, March 27, 2002 - 05:30 am: Edit

And by the way, timk you asshole, Yes, Ted worked out the protocols, but I worked out the production methods, which Ted approves, so no thanks, I am not some inconsequential technician.

I also happen to be the financial backer of the project, that is MY money out there.

By Don_Walsh on Wednesday, March 27, 2002 - 05:26 am: Edit

Actually, timk, I merely had about 25 years of practical experience, and formal training, in organic chemistry to help me. Ted and I responded to each other as chemists and not merely as absinthe fanciers.

You wouldn't know anything about 25 years experience about anything, except for puling, as you are what, 27 or 29 yrs old?

Now as to Ordinary:

Ordinary said:

"Admin, Ted, Don and Marc:

Prove me an asshole and I'll leave the Forum forever.

Show me a peer-reviewed (by PhDs) scientific paper by Ted and I'm gone forever.

If you can't, then Admin, Ted, Don and Marc have to shut up forever.

Deal?"

How's this? A peer reviewed (by PdD's) scientific paper by ME:

"Quantitative Studies in Stereochemistry. 16. The Ratio of Diastereomeric Pinacols Produced in the Aluminum Amalgam Bimolecular Reduction of Acetophenone"

Jack H.Stocker and Donald J.Walsh

Journal of Organic Chemistry (American Chemical Society) Volume 44, No.20, pp 3589-3591, (1979)

J.Org Chem. is absolutely peer reviewed, and absolutely by Ph.D.'s

The citation for the authors reads:

"Department of Chemistry, University of New Orleans, New Orleans. LA 70122"

Jack H.Stocker was Professor Emeritus of Organic Chemistry at UNO and once upon a time I was his research assistant for five years or so.

By Timk on Wednesday, March 27, 2002 - 05:09 am: Edit

"Ordinaire has not tasted any absinthe from Ted.

TimK has not tasted any absinthe from Ted.

And that's enough to know.

One is a jealous wannabe with an ax to grind.

The other is a petty prick with an ax to grind.

Fuck them both. Sorry about that, rowl. Netiquette be damned."

Have I ever said anything to the effect of Jade is a crap reproduction? NO!
Many people have tried it, the reviews are favourable, etc.

However you take any questioning of your methods, the way you go about business, etc. as an attack.

If i want to attack you, I will.
If I want to ask you questions dont act like a prick if you dont like them.

Out of the two of you, Ted seems to be the only professional one. As you have said Don, you knew shit before Ted taught you how to make absinthe. He did the research, he worked out how to produce it. You, by your own admission were spoonfed. So stop fucking moaning when people ask you about what you are doing. All I can say is that for the companys sake, I hope you are kept well away from the public eye.

By Pablo on Wednesday, March 27, 2002 - 03:52 am: Edit

Dr. O "We want the list of your published, peer-reviewed, works."

Curious. Who is "we"?

Also, I've read alot of Ted and Don's "peer reviews" here on the forum. They all rave about Jade.
Do they all have PhD's? Who fucking cares!

By Don_Walsh on Wednesday, March 27, 2002 - 02:54 am: Edit

Ordinaire has not tasted any absinthe from Ted.

TimK has not tasted any absinthe from Ted.

And that's enough to know.

One is a jealous wannabe with an ax to grind.

The other is a petty prick with an ax to grind.

Fuck them both. Sorry about that, rowl. Netiquette be damned.

By Marccampbell on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 11:43 pm: Edit

whats your agenda?

By Dr_Ordinaire on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 11:29 pm: Edit

Marc, even through our differences, I never gave you a reason not to trust me.

By Marccampbell on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 11:26 pm: Edit

I don't make deals with people I don't trust.

By Dr_Ordinaire on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 11:25 pm: Edit

Admin, Ted, Don and Marc:

Prove me an asshole and I'll leave the Forum forever.

Show me a peer-reviewed (by PhDs) scientific paper by Ted and I'm gone forever.

If you can't, then Admin, Ted, Don and Marc have to shut up forever.

Deal?

By Marccampbell on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 11:24 pm: Edit

ordinaire,

why do you think you have a RIGHT to see them? Who the fuck are you?

I am not defending Don and Ted. I am attacking your motives and lies.

By Dr_Ordinaire on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 11:22 pm: Edit

Marc:

Would you mind letting Ted and Don defend themselves?

And yes, since Ted mentioned published works and PhDs, I believe I have a right to see them.

By Admin on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 11:20 pm: Edit

Ted is not a fake, you're blowin up the wrong a-hole (sorry, had to keep with today's theme). I've witnessed and sampled many of his accomplishments over the years. He is what he says.

By Marccampbell on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 11:19 pm: Edit

ordinaire

who gives a shit about published works!
ted has actually produced absinthe and delivered it to absinthe afficianados in New Orleans, Paris and London. Yes! The man walks it like he talks it. People have enjoyed the fruits of his labor.
So, what the fuck are you trying to accomplish by incessently attacking one of the only members of this forum to produce the very thing we are all here to discuss and enjoy: absinthe!
You clearly have an agenda and it is a destructive one. Clearly you aim to ascend to some imaginary forum throne. Get over it. The members of this forum are too smart to let anyone, and that includes Don and Ted, to assume
the role of forum king. You are on a power trip,
but listen friend, your bullshit doesn't fly here ,never has and never will. The fact that you think that there are sacred cows to be slaughtered here reveals more about your mode of thinking than it does forum reality. There are no sacred cows. Just a mix of different people who have their own opinions about a myriad of things.

By Dr_Ordinaire on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 11:16 pm: Edit

Stop bullshitting, Ted.

We want the list of your published, peer-reviewed, works.

Otherwise we may think you are a fake...

By Tabreaux on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 11:13 pm: Edit

Longer than yours.

By Dr_Ordinaire on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 11:03 pm: Edit

Ted:

And the list of your published works is?

By Tabreaux on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 10:58 pm: Edit

[I never said I was an "experienced distiller"...]

That much we all know.


We've created something interesting and innovative.

You've done.........nothing.

By Marccampbell on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 10:51 pm: Edit

ordinaire ain't worth the firepower.

By Mr_Rabid on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 10:48 pm: Edit

There, friends, you can see the shadow of one Doctor Ordinaire, burned into the wall where he sat at his computer, back at the turn of the century.

Historians disagree on the precise nature of the remark which precipitated the flame that left this indelible silhouette.

Whatever the cause, not since Hiroshima has the world seen such an explosion. Several hundred bystanders or 'lurkers' if you will are also reported to have been vaporized.

The forum in which the shadow sits was too radioactive for human posting for some 28 years, and even now protective gear is reccommended.

By Dr_Ordinaire on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 10:05 pm: Edit

"Do you consider yourself to be an 'experienced distiller'?"

Ted, what could have possibly given you this idea? I never said I was an "experienced distiller" All I have shown to the Forumites is that (my friend Dr. O) has made 2 good Hausgemachts.

Wait a sec. Jeez. That's ALL... YOU have shown too.

Then...why the superior attitude, Ted? Is it all the peer-reviewed (by PhDs, no less), published works )? Would you care to post a list of your published works here, Ted?

What I find boring is that unsubstantiated superior attitude by someone who has done very little (Ted) and someone who has done nothing (Don).

By Don_Walsh on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 09:48 pm: Edit

Oh, fuck you as usual, Very Ordinary. That is ancient news, and to be taken with a grain of salt approx the size of Gibraltar.

As usual all you are doing is slinging mud.

Get a life. Get a job. Stop being boring.

By Aion on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 09:01 pm: Edit

Dr. O

All these ingredients were for sure in Pernod (and other vintage brands), but there were
(albeit small amounts) of other spices,
very powerful spices, which were never mentioned
in any recipie (I can only assume, but nutmeg,
clove and cinnamon are realistic possibilities).

And the spirit was without any shadow of doubt
essential as it was NOT neutral in taste and
scent and added a lot of additional undertones.

A.

By Tabreaux on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 08:56 pm: Edit

[It has come to my attention that a certain Forumite is trying to reproduce Pernod 68 circa 1900.]

Who might that be? It isn't me.

You act as if this is a revelation of sorts. This document is old news, and its protocol is basically identical to the venerable 'Arnold recipe'.


[Pernod knew very well that for an experienced distiller finding out how to make absinthe was a cinch.]

Do you consider yourself to be an 'experienced distiller'?

By Dr_Ordinaire on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 08:23 pm: Edit

It has come to my attention that a certain Forumite is trying to reproduce Pernod 68 circa 1900.

That would normally not have called my attention, but his methods have. This person is trying to reproduce this quite ordinary (at the time) liqueur by analyzing 100+ years old samples and using some black magic of his own, spending large amounts of time and money in the process. A chacun son gout. (I understand his next project is to re-invent the recipe for bread starting with the analysis of 3000 years old Assyrian crumbs.)

So that no other misguided Forumite will follow this tortuous and ultimately futile route, I will tell you the original recipe of Pernod 68.

Rather, I will point you at it, since it was always there.

Go to www.frenchmanltd.com

Once there, go to: Pernod Catalogue 1896 (click on the Union Jack for Artemis' excellent translation). Between pages 10 and 14 you will find what herbs were used, when planted and when harvested, why were they there, the distillation procedure, the works.

Isn't this a breath of fresh air comparing to the pathetic attempts at secrecy by people who are not worthy of kissing Monsieur Pernod's heel?

Was ol' Pernod a fool revealing all these "secrets"? No. Pernod knew very well that for an experienced distiller finding out how to make absinthe was a cinch. (Now, INEXPERIENCED distillers may take a long time and believe that this is a very hard task.)

So he did not say something as ridiculous as: "I'm the only one who knows how to make real absinthe". Instead, he pressed the point that he would only use the best herbs and WINE ALCOHOL.

He competed on quality, not on mumbo jumbo.

But back to the herbs. They were:

Wormwood
Anise
Fennel
Roman (Petit) wormwood
Hyssop
Lemon Balm (Melissa)

Now, back to the website and click on: Absinthe Recipes 1899 Look for Swiss Absinthe of Pontarlier. (Pontarlier, where Pernod was).

Check the herbs in the recipe. Guess what? They are:

Wormwood
Anise
Fennel
Roman (Petit) wormwood
Hyssop
Lemon Balm (Melissa)

The quantities are there, the procedure is there.

I anticipate an objection. It cannot be proved that this formula correspond to Pernod 68. Despite all the similarities, correlation is not proof.

But then, proof has not been offered by EITHER side...

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