Archive through March 27, 2002

Sepulchritude Forum: The Absinthe Forum Archive Thru March 2002: BETINA ELIXIRS ANNOUNCEMENT...NEW PERNOD ABSINTHE:Archive through March 27, 2002
By Lordhobgoblin on Wednesday, March 27, 2002 - 11:02 am: Edit

Timk,

Hang about here, I for one have no gripe with you. I like it when people here get others all riled and hot under the collar (even by just asking straightforward questions) it generates discussion. It's a lot better than everybody just agreeing with each other. It's good to have people to disagree with, life get's fucking boring otherwise. Stand your ground and speak as you feel.

Hobgoblin

By Dr_Ordinaire on Wednesday, March 27, 2002 - 10:48 am: Edit

"...just harrasing his betters."

Tell me, Don, whose "betters" are you and Ted? TimK and me? Vera? Oxygenee? Chevalier? Head?

This must be the weirdest marketing strategy in the world. To make your customers feel inferior...

By Don_Walsh on Wednesday, March 27, 2002 - 06:46 am: Edit

It's especially difficult for timk to get a point across when he is talking through his ass and just harrasing his betters.

It's most especially difficult when he has NO POINT to get across in the first place.

Get a life, and get a brain, Kelvinator.

By Timk on Wednesday, March 27, 2002 - 05:00 am: Edit

Oh, dont worry, Im not going anywhere for a while, I just cant be bothered with the argument anymore, arguing textually is very frustrating, as it is so hard to effectively get a point across, and react to what others say maybe we need an online voice confrence :)

By Pablo on Wednesday, March 27, 2002 - 03:03 am: Edit

Timk. I shouldnt bother with this but what the hell.

Im nobodys "crony". I was stating my opinion that if I had done the reasearch, invested the money, and was trying to launch a business I would keep my cards close. I wouldnt be saying "here is how I'm doing it everyone!"

Thats what I was saying. I was not attacking you. I was not defending Don.

This said, its pretty fucking clear that Ted and Don arn't going to say shit about it. So at this point you either are too stupid to realize this and stop asking, or you are trying to discredit them for your own purposes. Either way you just come out of it looking like an asshole.

(and no. I wont release the scientific data that proves any of the above statement, so dont ask!)

By Dr_Ordinaire on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 11:36 pm: Edit

I mean, dogs only see in black and white.

I guess some people only read what they want to hear...

By Dr_Ordinaire on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 11:34 pm: Edit

Sorry, Marc, they maybe go beyond your aural capacity...?

By Marccampbell on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 11:22 pm: Edit

ordinaire

are you losing your ability to speak? I didn't understand a thing you just said.

By Dr_Ordinaire on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 11:11 pm: Edit

Marc:

I asked Tim to stay without knowing his position on anything. Just that he would defy the status quo. Unlike you, a well known conservative.... OK?

Listen, I know you and Don are...or...come from a long time ago. But their position about absinthe is just ridiculouos. You know it. YOU KNOW IT, OK? If you weren't their friend, if they were Pernod in their position, you would slam them.

C'mon. Tell them not to be in a position they may regret some day.

By Marccampbell on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 10:50 pm: Edit

ordinaire,

do you really think that timk is up to the job of slaughtering Don Walsh, myself, ted, justin, hobgoblin, head or anyone in this forum? If so, I'm shocked. timk is a know-nothing. Even you, an adult with a bit of intelligence, have been unable to bring the so-called "sacred cows" to their knees. I'm shocked that you would align yourself with a twit as feeble as the pathetic timk. Or perhaps you've finally found your boytoy

By Dr_Ordinaire on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 10:43 pm: Edit

Stay, Tim.

I don't know you, but there are too many fat Sacred Cows in this Forum that are ready for the slaughtering...

By Marccampbell on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 07:59 pm: Edit

good.
now get the fuck out of here, you're boring.

By Timk on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 04:59 pm: Edit

oh, I cant be bothered

By Mr_Carfax on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 04:16 pm: Edit

For my mind, when one trawls through the archives, I think Don and Ted have generally been quite generous with information- perhaps not so much with exactly what Jade is, but more what it isn't.

Commonly in the pharmaceutical industry it is not unusual for rival companies to be able to work out the proprietary processes and formulations of competitive products from "peripheral" information to facilitate the development bioequivalent products-the generics manufacturing industry are very skilled in doing this.

I would not expect anything different from experienced professional distillers - process of elimination and what is not said sometimes provides just as much information as what is said - if it is double dutch and obscure to us that is because we are not all well versed in commercial scale distillation - although I imagine there are a few on the board who are...hence it is not surprising that academic debate on absinthe making could be a commercially dangerous activity for some.....just because some make a crappy product now, doesn't mean they wouldn't investigate opportunities to improve the taste profile and quality of their product if they can work out techniques used by others that do not add expense to their own production methods.

By Destiny on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 02:14 pm: Edit

I'm gonna play a little devil's advocate. I respect Ted and Don, their business and all the money and hard work that they have gone through to produce a product that is an accurate reproduction of premium vintage absinthe. I also think that they certainly should not be expected to disclose proprietary information.

However, I have noticed that occasionally they will dangle the Jade carrot in front of the forum and then claim "proprietary information" when questioned further about their statements or get angry or appear frustrated when people ask about the release date. When someone claims they alone have produced the world's best and only authentic absinthe, and when that absinthe is still not publicly available, there will be questions and challenges, rightfully so.

I believe Ted and Don to be honst and knowlegable and so I will accept Jade's authenticity based on their word. But it's foolish to not expect questions and challenges, particularly when the product is still a myth to most people.

By Dr_Ordinaire on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 01:46 pm: Edit

Don:

How can you compare me with Goebbels? Don't you know I'm not Aryan enough...?

C'mon, Don, lighten up. I don't need to lie to poke fun at your (and Ted's) unsubstantiated claims.

By Admin on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 01:14 pm: Edit

It matters to me, not from a snob perspective, but because it is fucking cool.

I am also a likely re-enactor candidate.

I understand Tim's curiosity, but no one is obligated to disclose what they spent blood, sweat & tears on. Hell, I jealously guard my crappy ass maceration recipe. I feel I did the work to make it taste not-like-ass, so can someone else.

Yes, this forum is a free-for-all, but it does not stand that folks who frequent it are obligated to disclose.

Like, if ya heard Spielberg has got a dinosaur movie in the works 2 years down the road, and you wanna know how are they gonna make it look believable ... like they're gonna tell ya!

Not to say that folks aren't over-reacting to Tim's zealous curiosity, or misreading his motives, but lets get some perspective here.

By Lordhobgoblin on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 01:01 pm: Edit

Chevalier is correct.

If it tastes good people will drink it. People will not drink it because it replicates something that was drunk at the start of the 20th century. I certainly wouldn't fork out money just to drink something that tasted like something people drank back in 1900. All that matters is how it pleases the taste buds right here and now, everything else is just mildly interesting window-dressing.

Hobgoblin

By Tabreaux on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 09:41 am: Edit

My statement was not intended to be derogatory in the least, and is very simple:

I have a financial interest staked in my proprietary art. Therefore, I am not about to make an effort to publicize it via free forums or anywhere else. Furthermore, I didn't bring it up. Enough said.


[...but maybe you should refrain from using said research to promote your products, because the public will be far more inquisitive than I am.]

I hope you are correct. If only the public were so inquisitive about the claims of the current products.


I've done my best to answer queries as plainly as I can, and I would be delighted if the topic were dropped indefinitely. I have no flag to wave, and I have nothing more to say about it.

By Chevalier on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 09:16 am: Edit

The public will be far more acquisitive than inquisitive. If Jade tastes good, is affordable and has an interesting story to it, consumers will come. Very few of them will care about (or understand) the hard science.

By Timk on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 09:07 am: Edit

You may make a fine, and accurate product, but the scientific research you say has gone into it was of more interest to me. You have in the past stated you have done extensive research on Vintage absinthes, you have stated that you have come up with new methods for identifying herbal essences, and you stated that you have had several offers from universities wrt. a phd to be gained on the merits of this research, but whenever you are questioned about it, all you give is fluff. My questions were entirely reasonable, untill Don started at me, fine if you do not want to release any information on them, but maybe you should refrain from using said research to promote your products, because the public will be far more inquisitive than I am.

By Timk on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 09:01 am: Edit

"As you well know, this business is full of shmucks (some of whom lurk here for free info), and I don't care to entertain them with something which they certainly would not deserve, appreciate, or even understand."

I was under the impression, Mr Breaux, that most of us were here for 'free' information. I dont know if this is how your comment was intended, but i feel two words adequately describe the following sentence:

"I don't care to entertain them with something which they certainly would not deserve, appreciate, or even understand"

Up yourself

By Tabreaux on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 08:45 am: Edit

With respect to lingering questions:

[Ted said many times, that he had done complex chemical analysis on absinthe, and that he would release his research at a later date.]

Actually, the data I intend to release represents a very basic glimpse into modern absinthes, and has no bearing or relevence to anything Jade-related. It will make for interesting reading, and that is about the extent of its value.


[The research also has no validity unless the full method is disclosed, and can be repeated by others.]

Which is reason enough why I have no intention of publicizing it. Regardless, a full-length book would be required to describe the essential facets and progression of the research.


[Ted says he has solved a problem, but he wont even tell us what the problem is.]

Like many scientific problems, understanding and delineating the problem is part of the solution.


[Ted is not the only person qualified to chemically analyse mixtures of essential oils, there are hundreds of labs capeable of soing so.]

Even if one spells out the protocol for baking a cake, there are at least a hundred ways to screw it up. With absinthe, one can double that number. Heck, many such labs cannot even reliably test for thujone, much less something far more involved. Nevertheless, this information is of far more commercial value than genuine scientific value, which is why it remains proprietary art.....not to mention, it cost me an arm and a leg to derive.


In summmary, I made a big decision 2 years ago. I could either write an interesting book, or invest in recreating something unique and of value. I decided the latter would be far more interesting to many more people, and therefore I chose that option. My choice to pursue the latter makes creation of the former unwise for obvious reasons. As you well know, this business is full of shmucks (some of whom lurk here for free info), and I don't care to entertain them with something which they certainly would not deserve, appreciate, or even understand.

This being said, I have offered about all I can on this subject.

By Timk on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 08:19 am: Edit

"This is not a peer reviewed scientific journal, and you are not a chemist."

THen kindly do not hint at cloak and dagger unsubstantiated scientific research if you dont want people to enquire about it.

By Timk on Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 08:17 am: Edit

"Those who have tasted them without tasting the originals pronounce them splendid in their own right.

YOU have not tasted them and all you do is nay-say.

You are a jealous petty little chickenshit and all the forum is here to see that for themselves."

When have I 'nay said'

all I asked for is what you tested for chemically, and I get blasted with your idiotic rantings.

I have not once commented on their historical accuracy, that was not in question, all i have asked is what you analysed for in the vintage absinthes, cant you read?

For fucks sake, if you take offence at any questions put your way, maybe you are in the wromng business, I cant see how the fuck you read anything negative into me questioning Ted on what he analysed vintage absinthe for, and what use this would be in producing a recreation. For all we know, his analysis may not have even been used in producing Jade, it may have been done purely to satisfy his curiosity. But again, all I fucking asked , NOW LISTEN FOR FUCKS SAKE, is what Ted tested for.

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