We have stated in the past that we cannot allow the discussion
of home distillation. We must now insist in more detail that
the discussion of, the (discussion of) purchasing of, posting
photos of, or the reviewing and adoration of any home distillation
product/experiment is STRICTLY PROHIBITED on FeeVerte.
Home distillation is a criminal activity. Purchasing home brew
is also a criminal activity.
We understand how this compromises your freedom of speech and
how it will affect the discussions of the get togethers and
Absinthe in general. However home distillation is a
highly monitored criminal activity.
If you feel obliged to discuss these things please do so privately
We have very sound reasons for such a drastic directive.
Kindly be mindful of this and please accept our sincere apologies.
Kallisti & Admin
Aye, aye, cap'ns.
Do you think it might be appropriate to ammend the Forum Etiquette to read something to the effect of:
Due to recent events, as of May 2004 the Sepulchritude Forums cannot allow the technical discussion of the distillation of spirits, the discussion of, discussing the purchasing of, posting photos of, or the reviewing and adoration of any home distillation product/experiment, as such activities are illegal in the U.S. and carry severe penalties. This is in order to protect the forum participants from unwanted attention from such agencies as the ATF. Please be aware that this is a publicly read forum, and keep that in mind when making your posts. Inappropriate posts will be deleted. Please contact a moderator if you have any questions.
Also, it may be wise to give 'em a heads up (as it were) over at the Lounge.
|Also, it may be wise to give 'em a heads up (as it were) over at the Lounge.|
If I'm not mistaking, buying (importing) absinthe in the US is also in itself an illegal activity, which means we should stop talking about ANY absinthes poured in the US.
Just to be consistant you know...
Anyway, I understand and fully support this new rules update.
|QUOTE (Wolfgang @ Apr 30 2004, 06:55 PM)|
|If I'm not mistaking, buying (importing) absinthe in the US is also in itself an illegal activity, which means we should stop talking about ANY absinthes poured in the US.|
Did something happen to provoke this? Or is it just precautionairy, as it were?
Kallisti, doesn't the Homebrewing section of the FAQ break this new rule?
To my knowledge it is not illegal to soak herbs in vodka, so referring to this technique should not be problematic.
...except to the tastebuds...
Actually I was referring to the links to home distilling sites in the Homebrewing section and the description of the distilling process in the Historical Recipes section.
Mind you, I'm not critizicing, I thought this might have been overlooked by Admin.
No, they haven't been overlooked. The direct references I supply are historical documents and I link to offsite resources for people to get practical data. I believe providing information of this nature neither endangers people here nor breaks the law.
I hope so anyway.
I would save those pages on your hard drives, just in case.
One of the unintended effects of the DMCA was that websites could be shut down not only for posting copyrighted data but even providing links to copyrighted data on completely different sites!
But copyright is not an issue here. The links are just links to information, and should be no different that a public library that might carry a book about distillation. The position of the FAQ is "we don't talk about home distillation. If that's what you're looking for, go here."
If anyone knows a link to the laws prohibiting Absinthe in general, and home brewing in particular, please post here.
I'll look myself and if I find it, I'll post it...
Happy Birthday, Trishy!
There are no laws prohibiting home brewing, that refers to beermaking.
Home "macerating" of absinthe isn't illegal either.
You mean home distillation, which IS illegal, be it absinthe, or any other liquor!
I found some law about this online...
If I'm reading it right, homebrewing isn't illegal per se, but requires a license??
By the way, thank you for remembering my birthday, that is thoughtful. I shall spend my evening off of work doing what I normally do - trying to get as much writing done as possible...a never-ending task, but I enjoy the processes (online content mostly, but other venues, too...)
Hey Trish! You made it. Cheers!
I told you I had healing powers! I could be the next doctor frankenstein!
Welcome to NOT THE LOUNGE.
|QUOTE (Trishymouse @ May 10 2004, 02:21 PM)|
| I found some law about this online...|
If I'm reading it right, homebrewing isn't illegal per se, but requires a license??
I think most of the laws about legal distillation can be found at www.atf.gov but that is only at the federal level. There are also state laws to consider.
|QUOTE (Trishymouse @ May 10 2004, 01:21 PM)|
|If I'm reading it right, homebrewing isn't illegal per se, but requires a license??|
God Bless America
In Virginia, it would be easier to obtain components for WMDs than to get permission to buy Everclear, though you can get it from eleswhere online.
Then again, in Virginian only the missionary position between legally married people is legal.
It seems now, that not only are you not supposed
to discuss home distillation, you will also not be able
to discuss Spirits Corner.
Yeah! They raised the price of Serpis! DAMN!!!!
I was surprised by their "announcement".
Shocking, ain't it?
I'm sure that package would just fly through customs without a hitch.
Did anyone respond? I sent Federico an email telling him that owning a still in this country was a crime, and it would probably be best not to sell them here. I also told him that selling ingedients would ok.
Maybe I should have added that artemisia should be labeled, not for human consumption.
Nah, you can get it at the health food store.
Gets rid of tape worms, ya know.
Also an abortifacient, so if yer pregnant or nursing, don't use it.
|QUOTE (I_B_Puffin @ May 12 2004, 09:41 PM)|
|I also told him that selling ingedients would ok.|
Is a phytosanitary certificate needed for dried spices?
Federico mailed me back.
|Thank you very much for your information.|
Owing a pot still for spirits distillation is also illegal in Spain, but the
stills we are thinking of are very small: 5, 10, 15 liters, so that they are
sold as decorative items. You can find them in some stores. What you cannot
find are bigger stills. It is similar to glass stills (if they are called
like this, the typical glass things in a chemistry laboratory), with which
you also can distill a spirit. This is the situation here in Spain.
I thank you for your comments on the herbs, we will include them a little
|QUOTE (I_B_Puffin @ May 13 2004, 09:46 PM)|
|Is a phytosanitary certificate needed for dried spices?|
Probably easier to buy them in the States, anyway.
I thought some of the ingredients like Artemisia pontica weren't easily availables in the US, since Artemisia plants are generally banned for use in foods.
I checked the website and it looks like
|SPICES BOTTLED OR PACKAGED FOR RETAIL|
So is it legal to own a still for decorative purposes?
Decorative purposes should be illegal.
Form is bad. Function is good.
Long Live the New Flesh.
Fuck Mies Van der Rohe.
|QUOTE (conju @ May 18 2004, 12:05 AM)|
|So is it legal to own a still for decorative purposes?|
Doesn't look like it'd make a whole helluvalot of grappa.
A grape's worth?
. . . and the Farnsworth House is stunning.
|QUOTE (traineraz @ May 18 2004, 02:52 AM)|
|Doesn't look like it'd make a whole helluvalot of grappa.|
|QUOTE (I_B_Puffin @ May 17 2004, 06:23 PM)|
| I thought some of the ingredients like Artemisia pontica weren't easily availables in the US, since Artemisia plants are generally banned for use in foods.|
I checked the website and it looks like
Reading the above, makes me glad I ceded my title to him, Conju. Sometimes it's just not worth the effort.
|QUOTE (badger @ May 18 2004, 03:56 PM)|
|For decerative purposes I purchased Artemsea Pontica,|
You guys don't get it. Sixela's brain works differently from those of ordinary mortals. Let me illustrate:
What we see:
What Sixela sees (artist's conception):
And the Farnsworth House is a rectangular, stunning piece of shit. It's a goddamned shed. No wonder the Nazis ran the sons-of-bitches out of Germany.
Dammit Hiram, now all I see is my drink running down my screen! That is the funniest thing I have seen in a damned long time!
Where does he get such wonderful toys...
How you do dat?
I wonder if I ring my garden with Artemisia Absinthium, would it keep the rabbits out, or would they just shimmy under it and hit the cabbage any way?
Little fuckers are going to get me pissed pretty soon. I'll get the RWS #36 our if they don't stay away.
We have a drainage pond not far fromt he house. I'm planting lemon balm around the back porch to see if it helps there. I read somwhere that it was a natural mosqueto repellant.
|QUOTE (Artemis @ Apr 30 2004, 07:36 AM)|
They know about it.
Absinthium keeps insects away; they won't touch it.
As for rabbits, I've read that you can use urine of animals that put the fear of God into rabbits, such as cats. How you milk the urine from the cats, I don't know. Maybe used cat litter? But then your garden would be less than fragrant. Rabbits are good diggers, not to mention leapers, so fences are iffy. You might just have to share with them.
As for the Lounge, what I meant was that one or more Lounge moderators participated in (private) discussions at this forum which revolved around the latest ban on THAT subject here - therefore it wasn't necessary for anybody to go and report to them or anything. Said moderators are members of this forum, after all. What came out of it, I couldn't say - I haven't read the Lounge in many moons.
You're the second person to mention Frank Herbert. He wrote "Dune", right? I never read it. I saw the TV production (part of it anyway), the one with Sting in it. A little bald-headed girl, talking about the apparent hero, says something like "For he IS the Cuisinart Shadarack" - a messiah of some sort, I guess.
>Absinthium keeps insects away; they won't touch it.
not in france...there are little black bugs that love to hang out on the nice fresh shoots of my a.a. plant. they don't seem to do any damage, though...
I should have said "they won't EAT it" .... I was still thinking about the rabbits.
The little black bugs are common aphids. Aphids LOVE absinthium. A healthy dose of ladybugs is often enough to get rid of the aphids. The aphids won't do much damage unless the infestation gets extreme.
I had a crazy outbreak of aphids last year on my A.A. I shook the hell outta the branches, sprayed on some soapy water, then washed liberally with the hose.
Suckers disappered after that.
In this area, we get infested with those damn Asian Ladybugs every spring. Like Zman said, they are supposed to good at eliminating aphids. I could have sent you a few thousand, Icarus.
That's interesting; I've never seen bugs of any type near my wormwood except spiders. Of course, the presence of spiders means bugs are surely there. For sure I've never seen damage to as much as a single leaf from insects. Aphids are a nasty pain in the ass. So are the ladybugs when they invade the house in the autumn, but they do destroy aphids.
Aphids are usually crawling all over my Wormwood plant. Unfortunately the ladybugs don't tend to go near it, they usually spend there time on the honeysuckle (which is also usually crawling with aphids).
Speaking of Artemesia, Here is a pix of the most common realted plant in the local area. It is called Dusty Miller, which is not strictly an Artemisia, but a Senecio Cineraria, which appears to be related. This is the first one I've seen bloom in the 20+ years I have lived here.
Hmm, I've never seen one bloom either...
Surprisingly enough, I saw some honey bees on the flowers today while I was working in the yard. I would not have expected honey bees to be attracted to it.
I checked a half dozen other plants round the area this weekend, and none are flowering.
Did you know that homedistilling is legal in newzealand.
You've been scheduled for BURNINATION!!!!
|QUOTE (le Gimp @ Jul 4 2004, 08:07 PM)|
|Speaking of Artemesia, Here is a pix of the most common realted plant in the local area. It is called Dusty Miller, which is not strictly an Artemisia, but a Senecio Cineraria...|
|..there are little black bugs that love to hang out on the nice fresh shoots of my a.a. plant.|
|QUOTE (le Gimp @ Aug 6 2004, 09:14 AM)|
The majority of my home state is pretty much covered with Artemisia
No wonder nurseries can't keep straight what they are selling.
|QUOTE (WhyteKnight @ Aug 6 2004, 08:28 AM)|
|The majority of my home state is pretty much covered with Artemisia|
|QUOTE (le Gimp @ Aug 6 2004, 09:29 AM)|
|No wonder nurseries can't keep straight what they are selling.|
|QUOTE (Jack Batemaster @ Aug 6 2004, 10:51 AM)|
|(Since you DIDN'T FINISH filling out your profile) And that would be?|
Funny you should mention spiders and aphids...I have a field absolutely full of AA plants behind my house and whenever i have picked the plants they have been covered in those damn shiny little black bugs,which congregate in clusters here and there. But i must admit i havn't seen any damage to the plants though.
Some people have all the luck.
Apparently some bugs too.
Having just moved to Italy, guess what they sell in the local home and garden centers ?
Sized 1 to 50 liters, home distillation is legal in Italy.
I think I may do something I cant discuss here.
Well I have no idea what you could possibly be talking about, but you are one lucky bastard none the less.
Hmmm, Italy could be a good place to move . . .
The ironic thing is that in plenty of countries where it's legal, it's a pain in the ass because you have to get all these permits and register the still and they usually set the home still size limit at 2 liters.
New Zealand is another great country.
It's legal to own a home distillery in the USA as long as it's only used for legal ditillation, such as "essential oils" or distilled water. Of course, the same setup could be used illegally to manufacture alcohol... but that would be wrong, wouldn't it?
It's sort of like owning a car capable of 200 MPH. It's legal to own it, but it's illegal to get caught driving that fast.
They're required by law to let the feds know who buys them, too.
Edit: Fixed the weird copy/paste error. I was channeling Gimpy.
|QUOTE (Hiram @ Sep 4 2004, 02:27 PM)|
|They're required by law to give information on who let the feds know who buys them, too.|
TITLE 27--ALCOHOL, TOBACCO PRODUCTS AND FIREARMS
CHAPTER I--ALCOHOL AND TOBACCO TAX AND TRADE BUREAU, DEPARTMENT OF THE
PART 29_STILLS AND MISCELLANEOUS REGULATIONS--Table of Contents
Sec. 29.47 Notice requirement; manufacture of stills.
(a) General. When required by letter issued by the appropriate ATF
officer and until notified to the contrary by the appropriate ATF
officer, every person who manufactures any still, boiler (double or pot
still), condenser, or other apparatus to be used for the purpose of
distilling shall give written notice before the still or distilling
apparatus is removed from the place of manufacture.
(b) Preparation. The notice will be prepared in letter form,
executed under the penalties of perjury, and show the following
(1) The name and address of the manufacturer;
(2) The name and complete address of the person by whom the
apparatus is to be used, and of any other person for, by, or through
whom the apparatus is ordered or disposed of;
(3) The distilling purpose for which the apparatus is to be used
(distillation of spirits, redistillation of spirits or recovery of
spirits, including denatured spirits and articles containing spirits or
(4) The manufacturer's serial number of the apparatus;
(5) The type and kind of apparatus;
(6) The distilling capacity of the apparatus; and
(7) The date the apparatus is to be removed from the place of
© Filing. The notice will be filed in accordance with the
instructions in the letter of the appropriate ATF officer. A copy of the
notice will be retained at the place of manufacture as provided by Sec.
(Approved by the Office of Management and Budget under control number
(Sec. 843, Pub. L. 98-369, 98 Stat. 818 (26 U.S.C. 5101))
[T.D. ATF-207, 50 FR 23682, June 5, 1985; 50 FR 28572, July 15, 1985;
T.D. ATF-439, 66 FR 8769, Feb. 2, 2001]
|QUOTE (Hiram @ Sep 4 2004, 03:46 PM)|
of any other person for, by, or through ;
whom the apparatus is ordered or disposed of
I think the manufacturer and distributers are skirting the legalities by stating that the units are made for other purposes.
If it ever gets above the noise level and the appropriate govt agency decides to investigate they will not have a leg to stand on.
I'll stick to making Beer. And speaking of which, I need to brew again since the weather is cooling off.
Beer, natures perfect food (The Belgian Monistaries had it right for lent).
Wish I'd had my camera today. The most wonderful
bath tub still I've ever seen was at an antique store
in Martinez. "Found in a secret room in Pacific Heights
in San Francisco $275"
I've seen some really nice old (small) stills on sale on e-bay. It makes one wonder how widespread it was 50 or more years ago.
The nicest copper pot still I've seen close up is at the Conch Republic Resturant in Key West. It is a Rum Still, and looks to beabout a 200L capacity unit. The lynn arm looked all wrong though.
|The lynn arm looked all wrong though...|
The lyne arm is the toppy bit of the still, consisting mostly of the first section of the conduit that sends the vapourized alcohol to the condenser. I think its also called the swan's neck or somesuch. By looking "all wrong" I'm presuming what was meant was that it looked as though it didn't fit in with the rest of the setup or something.
We've got an old 5 gallon or so copper moonshine pot around somewhere with lead seams and patches all over it...yum yum.
Remind me to never drink your absinthe.
We don't actually use it Besides that I gave up when it wasn't bitter enough.
Sure you did.
|It's legal to own a home distillery in the USA as long as it's only used for legal ditillation, such as "essential oils" or distilled water.|
|That's all lovely, and certainly applies to COMMERCIAL ALCOHOL STILLS.|
Not to nit-pick, but you CAN legally buy a water-distillation still. However, it's designed to boil water (212F) and not alcohol (about 160F, if I recall).
|QUOTE (le Gimp @ Sep 4 2004, 07:35 PM)|
|I think the manufacturer and distributers are skirting the legalities by stating that the units are made for other purposes.|
When I say it didn't look right, I was refering to the size of the lynnh arm to the pot itself.
A 200 gallon pot (useable for 200L or slightly more) whould have a large take off port.
It looked like someone attached asection of 3/8" copper tubing to it like one would see in an Abby cap comic strip.
There is no way the diameter of that tubing could support the output of that still. It is simply a decorative representation.
I believe there was such a still pictured in an Andy cap comic.
Not Andy cap, I meant Li'l Abner. Down in ole Dogpatch USA.
|Not to nit-pick, but you CAN legally buy a water-distillation still.|
|QUOTE (justabob @ Sep 5 2004, 08:54 PM)|
|Not Andy cap, I meant Li'l Abner. Down in ole Dogpatch USA.|
|QUOTE (Hiram @ Sep 6 2004, 11:44 AM)|
Where they really know how to smack hogs.
Pass that kickapoo joy juice.
This thread sure is a long-lived for one named after something we're not 'sposed to talk about.
Just to , I really like the Aventinus Eisbock.
Too bad I can't make any since the US Govt in it's infinite wisdom defines freezing beer and removing some of the ice to be distillation .
It is legal to distil alcohol at home in the USA for “fuel purposes” the permit is inexpensive and there are several still makers in the USA selling their wares.
This is an international forum it’s stupid distillation cannot be discussed here.
Tell that to Agent Dressler.
This an international forum, it's stupid to discuss distillation here.
Try this place
Are you nimrods trying to tell me skilled distillation, the type of still, materials, is irrelevant to quality Absinthe and not worth talking about.... well that’s fucking brilliant!
It’s is not illegal to talk about home distillation as pointed out there are many countries where home distalation is legal and there are people on this forum from these countries. IF the owner of this site has some moral or personal objection to this discussion …fine It’s his/ her web site but let’s not bull shit people with a LIE that it’s Illegal to talk about it. To make the point more clear homedistiller.com is owned and operated out of California and there are people selling fully functioning stills in the USA the only thing that’s illegal is distilling without permit.
Here's a still for sell on Ebay!
Last I knew talking about how absinthe was distilled 100+ years ago didn't require posting links to places selling stills.
But I could be wrong.
At least he'd have an audience that didn’t think he was a nimrod.
Wow. News flash.
Talking is not illegal.
Not at this forum anyway.
Ok buddy, hands on the wall and spread 'em.
You know the drill.
So - he spreads 'em and you drill?
Discussion of historical production methods, and for that matter modern commercial absinthe production is absolutely OK. Feel free to be as specific and technical as you want to be.
But discussion of home distillation of absinthe - something which at the moment is not legal under any circumstances in the US - is not allowed on this forum, even if couched in hypothetical terms or qualified by proforma disclaimers. The reason behind this prohibition is not some personal quirk, but rather the carefully considered judgement that to allow such discussions would not be in the overall best interests of our membership.
This is a decision taken in consultation with the senior members here, and one which we periodically review in private, but not one that I'm going to explain further at this stage, or debate in public.
Lastly PDX, your rudeness to my fellow admin displeased me. Displeasing me is unwise.
Don't get him angry. You wouldn't like him when he's angry.
Sorry, had to say it.
What manner of schmuck bumps a year-and-a-half-dead thread to throw a temper tantrum, anyway?
No shit. Those people that started this
thread aren't even registered anymore!
Talking about doing something illegal is called conspiracy, conspiracy generally carries the same penalty as the crime itself.
Words are like those dirty pictures you took of yourself PDX, they last forever so you never know when or where they will turn up, why should we leave our words lying around?
Everything you write will be used agaisnt you.
It's not that I give a xit, I'm not doing anything illegal and I don't want to encourage anyone else to do
anything illegal. If we discuss how it's done in detail, and you go out and do it, that could be construed as a conspiracy.
There are no customs *laws*, merely regulations. Congress hasn't passed a law banning absinthe, and customs relies on the FDA's stance.
As for the "mother and sister" comment, it's a classic - welcome to the Hall of the Great Noroms.
Have we exceeded the Winston cap for this year?
GreenImp, we need a Winston™ here.
Edit: Steyr beat me to it
I see the fuck-up fairy has visited us again.
You're behaving like a troll.
3 options: Stop it, and start to contribute; leave and find a forum more to your liking; or continue as you are and risk exhausting my - and Head's - patience. Your call.
Thanks for the legal advice PDX, I'll keep that in mind.
As for the other, my dead mother and paraplegic sister thank you for the attention you gave them.
An idiot like pdxabsinthe is too stupid for a Winston, he rates a Fredie.
Oh, my Sweet Opaline that's funny!
PDX dreams of carrying on an intelligent conversation about distillation of absinthe.
and that is OK -- but not online.
That was the hardest I've laughed in months.
Hold me please, mon chéri!
Anyhooo. About the distillation. This is kind of a y question, but I have to ask something a little more taboo, so feel free to kick my ass if I've crossed the line.
If one were to distill marijuana, not soak, but distill, would the resulting liquor have THC?
Or opium poppy, would the the liquor have opium?
I would think not...if that is true how could wind up in absinthe...except maybe the coloring (soaking) process. And blanches would be down to zero, right?
Only the essence of the plant makes it over through the process, no solids.
Is this about right?
The amount of t h u j o n e in absinthe in mg/l varies according to the producer. After the distillation (in the end-product), a decrease may occur. Other factors that affect t h u j o n e final concentration are:
a) amount of t h u j o n e in cultivated wormwood plant
b) time of harvest (temperature and weather)
c) the process and conditions of drying
d) maceration (usually 12-48h)
e) distillation (especially which fraction is collected)
Still, you are free to use t h u j o n e-free wormwood plant chemotypes grown in France, Italy, Lithuania, etc and you do not have to worry if there is anything at whichever stage of production. Artemisia pontica used in colouration adds very little of t h u j o n e (up to 30% of essential oil).
AFAIK, but I am not dealing with that crap nor I am an expert, marijuana once distilled contains THC.
The ideal extraction methods for various plants varies from plant to plant. Just throwing something into liquid and adding heat doesn't guarantee anything. I wouldn't know about THC etc. but those answers are probably available elsewhere. Alcohol and water as the solvents, with heat, works for those plants that are used in absinthe.
Will someone point me to the thread or section where coloring absinthe is discussed?
I want to look into coloring the prototype 31 blanche myself.
I was at the garden shop this weekend getting herbs and tomato & pepper plants and was stuck behind a mental midget.
He was asking an employee where to get the mugwort "you know Artemisia vulgaris, I also need to buy Bronze fennel" in his cart he had melissa too, I asked him if he had any hyssop, he said "no, why". No reason, I just think it smells nice.
He then wiped his dripping nose with his sleeve.
In the coloring step...does anyone here know what causes that blue-ish color like the Nouvelle-Orléans ?
It's patent blue or brillant blue, not sure which is more blueish, btw. Still, a nice carcinogen to boost your absinthe
I know...I asked, but I dont expect an answer due to trade secret clause.
I've heard mention of blue hibiscus for coloring. But I don't know if Ted uses it.
I don't think he ever said that.
What SD said.
Just taking thujon-free chemotype and the work is done. I have never heard that any traditional extrait d'absinthe contained NO thujon whatsoever, there seems to be some misleading assumption leaving a tail.
Where did Ted claim that any traditional absinthe had no thujone whatsoever?
Where, in fact, did he claim that Lucid has no thujone whatsoever?
"Where did Ted claim that any traditional absinthe had no thujone whatsoever?"
Where? Here, in the Lucid website's FAQ:
"Does Lucid contain thujone?
Lucid has been tested and it meets US and EU standards for content. It is worth noting that using modern equipment, T.A. Breaux, the distiller of Lucid, has analyzed dozens of bottles of traditional, high-quality vintage Absinthe from the Belle Époque period and has determined that quality Absinthe that was properly made typically did not have any significant thujone content- even 100 years ago."
"Where, in fact, did he claim that Lucid has no thujone whatsoever?"
C'mon, Trainer, you are not that dumb... By stating that Lucid can be sold in the USA, Ted is admitting that it has no thujone. Otherwise it would be banned. The reason he can sell it in the US is because it is NOT absinthe. It's Absente for those who think they know about absinthe.
What Sixer said.
There's an acceptable level of insect matter
in everything you eat. Likewise, an acceptable
amount of bullshit within each post Dr. O prescribes.
There is not only an acceptable level of bullshit in Dr. O's posts. I think there's a minimum limit as well; in other words, a required level of bullshit.
Yeah, sorry, Sixela.
Unlike you, I'm, not a chemist. I don't know what a "...antiquated test protocol (producing both false positives and negatives, not the least because it doesn't measure a numerical estimate of how much t-jone there is, but purports to simply judge the "presence" of t-jone).
I didn't know that:"...The proper test (according to the FDA) does not use a well calibrated GLC analysis and determines whether the resulting estimate (which is, by the way, still an estimate) is 0 mg/l, 0.0 mg/l, 0.00 mg/l or 0 parts per million."
If I were as knowleadgeable about chemistry as you are, I would know that:"...If it were using a more modern test protocol, I have no doubt the FDA would also give a precise limit for t-jone content just like the European rules do, and there's no way of knowing exactly what numerical value the FDA would come up with, although it wouldn't be zero - zero is something which simply does not exist in these matters, because one molecule of t-jone in a bottle is not zero molecules and because even far more toxic compounds (with extremely low lethal doses) don't have a limit that is set to zero when something like a GLC test is used for measuring the titrage.
OK, Sixela, since you are not a chemist or a scientist, and you have not the foggiest idea of the stuff that is posted under your name, you are the Forum equivalent of a condom.
"It's also ad hominem and beside the point, as you can find my sources with a modicum of research, and you'd have to cast doubts on the authority of the sources, not on mine. You'd better have some peer-reviewed articles of your own."
Ad hominem my ass!
Where are your sources? That bullshiter (Ted, in case you haven't noticed it) has been bullshitting people with no critical thinking for years.
So name SOME sources.
Do I have to remind the Forum of the day when I asked for Ted's "peer reviewed" papers?.
Guess how many papers, peer-reviewed, Ted has?
Right. Zero. Nada. He may be a media personality, but as absinthe credibility, he has zero.
If that guy wants to make money out of absinthe newbies, that's his deal. Changing absinthe history, that's another matter.
The I Ching says "Even one small passion lurking in the heart has the power to obscure all reason." O's irrational hatred of Ted seems to prove the ancient Chinese dictum.
At least O's heart is in the right place. So much time and effort spent just to keep us from drinking fake absinthe. Thanks for saving us from ourselves.
There must be some correlation between drinking absinthe and the onset of Alzheimer's, because in this Forum people seem to be "memory challenged" and then they get their panties all bunched up when I remind them of "REAL reality".
So, let's try a little memory test. How many people remember when Absente appeared? Good. Some of you still have two neurons connected.
Now, how many people remember WHY everybody in this Forum laughed at Absente? Nope, it was not the taste. (The taste was crap, but that was not the issue.)
It was because it had no thujone. Yep. The Forumites would evaluate crappy absinthe, but everybody here refused to consider Absente absinthe at all. What is totally acceptable with Lucid, was totally unacceptable then.
At least SOME of you have to remember that.
About my "irrational hatred" of Ted, I would like to remind you that I'm not quoting his enemies, I'm quoting him. If his story has changed over and over through the years, that is not my problem.
And, Arty, to answer you:
"I might have missed it, or seen it and ignored it, but I do remember responding to you in some thread, that Ted never SAID that. What he BELIEVES, there's no way for me to know. "
Go to the Lucid site and see for yourself what Ted believes.
Note: Absente is a pastis and not an absinthe.
For more reasons than the "threat" of thujone.
An Old Timer Forumite (Abisntheur) reviews Absente:
I'll be awaiting your review for the guide.
I'm not paying 70 bucks for pastis, thank you very much.
I'll leave that for the more enlightened members of the Forum.
So... who's jumping on the grenade? You? Kallisti? Sixela?
I'm sure I'll get mine probono.
Payola if you will.
One interesting thing, and different this time, is that so few people opposed me.
Usually, when I said something against one of the Sacred Cows (Ted, Arty, Sixela) I got shit from every quadrant.
This time, only the Sacred Cows themselves came on their own defense.
Could it be that the vast majority of the Absinthe community has finally realized, with this Lucid stunt, that Ted is full of shit?
The only thing I'm sure of is how bored you are.
Bored? No way...
Unlike you, I don't spend here all the time.
As a matter of fact, I was away for some four months before coming back and discovering that Traditional Absinthe had NO thujone.
I ignore all but your initial statement
which I usually laugh my ass off at.
It's good to have a joust at the sacred cows, and I'm honored to be included in the herd, but I said nothing in defense of myself, as there's nothing to defend. Dr. O has always twisted words to put things into people's mouths that they never said. The only reason I ever got into the debate was to help demonstrate that is a non-issue. Enough people should have tried absinthe for themselves by now to have demonstrated that for themselves in personal way that's beyond debate.
I will not visit the Lucid website because I'm not interested in it. What is said there is not necessarily what Ted believes, it's what is necessary to sell that product. From the beginning, it has been possible to obtain absinthe that is absinthe, and that is all it claims to be, with that one word, and it didn't take me long to validate that word for myself, using only lips and tongue. As for Ted, he's still alright with me.
And I'm not a big watcher of television.
It's beyond me, that t.v.
I just don't GET IT.
Ah yes, life goes on.
For those who don't have one.
Or want one.
La vie est faite de miel et d'absinthe; et plus d'absinthe pour toujours.
'OK, so it has now been PROVED that original absinthe had between 1 and 10 mg/Kg of thujone.
What am I going to do with this information? Nothing. Except remembering it. Saving it.
So next time Ted presents IRREFUTABLE proof that original absinthe had between 10 and 35 mg/Kg of thujone (so he can sell Amers), I'll just ... tell you that I disagree...
Nothing has been proved so far.
Have to agree with you, Absinthist.
That the U.S. F.D.A and D.E.A. or whatever set an abstract limit on thujone means absolutely nothing on what absinthe originally had.
Some people here understand the new relaxed limits as something having to do with traditional absinthe.
We do not trust the CADs (Commercial Absinthe Distillers) or their groupies as far as the content of thujone in traditional absinthe. They want to sell absinthe. Not in the past, but now.
We want the truth.
Maximum and minimum thujon concentrations are just EU's imbecile inventions and have nothing to do with reality, just as their definitions for various spirits found in COUNCIL REGULATION (EEC) No 1576/89. Not counting, the irritating control of the pigments I am using (some of them them have been already banned in Europe ane nothing seems as if the ban would be lifted).
Absinthe fitting their line is perfectly makeable but absinthes of the heyday is another story and here the research is being continued so nothing can be said that is definite. Even today using Pernod fils recipe you can make a copy of that extrait that will be thujon-free or really low, or on the other hand, much higher than its predecessor could be at maximum. Still, it is part of marketing and the clientele it is aimed at.
I would not trust fda, either, people who have never had absinthe in their whole life, shall never be allowed to give opinions about.
And the truth is out there . I am wondering why X-files has not released any series dealing with absinthe at all? At least we could see professeurs de FDA at work hand in hand with Scully and Mulder...
Laws that deal w/reality?
Laws are political
I'd like to work my hand
Exactly, politics has nothing to do with real world. Whereas coming back to the truth Dr O. is demanding.
Below are 4 thujon concentrations of Absinthe Suisse de Neuchatel re-created for the purpose of science in various labs:
1# 8.2 mg/l
2# 2.2 mg/l
3# 1.4 mg/l
4# 4.5 mg/l
does this suggest that any absinthe made according to Neuchatel recipe will be in the range 1.4-8.2 mg/l? Of course, not.
No, but it does say roughly 63% of absinthe made by that recipe and process will.
It also says that 93% of all absinthe made by same will be between <1mg/L and 13.21mg/L (three standard deviations plus mean).
6sigma would be around 23.1mg/L
So we can conclude that absinthe produced by this method and process will have less than 23.1mg/L.
Albeit it is a small sample and the numbers aren't exact.
50 Samples would probably be necessary to really nail down the process and recipe given that the samples were truly representative of the variations in herb quality and consistent operation of the apperatus.
Glad you got my point. Obviously, I have given just 5 to suggest that it is a long way to state that Neuchatel shall be at this and that.
If all samples prove to be made with exactly the same wormwood (I mean 50 different labs are following the same process without the slightest modification, neither in preparation of the herbs, nor maceration-distillation-assemblage-colouration whatever is required) we could approximately get them at circa 20.04-22.08 mg/l, assuming of course in the wormwood oil thujon is between 67%-70% as it is in case of high quality plants.
Can't we just drink it?
That's the bottom line!
Who the fuck ever
said I was human?
If you are an animal they tolerate absinthe well as well, some of them
I have a proven
track record as
far as consuming
He is not animal,
He is not Human,
He is but part human.
A louched Liver to be exact.
Louched Liver was my friend. Dr. O is no Louched Liver.
Thanks for clarification. Now, I see.
I don't bother to
Not to me.
Why, I'm not.
Reality needs all the help it can get --
especially in the South!
Some xit's too
real down here.
Like the fact
it's the South.
There are a few things I actually like about the South.
Complete strangers smile and wave at you as you pass them in your car.
Strangers look you in the eye and say, "Howdy, how ya doin?"
Strangers open my door for me.
Yeah, we'll lynch a few and make 'em ride in the back of the bus. But darn it, we're friendly while we're at it.
Konquer we must for our kause is just
You missed the third 'K', buddy.
One-eyed monster=Cyclops (or I should say Kyklops )
You needn't . . .
Just don't call Moshe Dyan a Kikelops, or my friends from the southern MOSAD will lynch you.
KIKE lops Who would suspect Mossad to conspire in the good olde Confederate States of America???
They're quite easy to tell apart, however.
They lynch with Uzis.
Like that one?
Where do you live?
In strangers' houses most of the time.
I'll bet you hide their canes and tin cups, just for spite.
No, but some girls misunderstand when I open their door for them and offer the traditional greeting of Saran Wrap and cool whip.
I thought everybody knew that's what real Jehovah's Witnesses use as bait.
I prefer no witnesses.
Then you ought to remember to park that telltale van a little farther down the street.
The one marked Free Candy?
Sixela: Girls with eyepatches are sexy. Don't you remember Barbarella, 'pretty, pretty'?
Girls should look like this
Yes, I suppose girls are a religion. So agnosticism would be appropriate.
(btw, this is my 700th post....not that I'm counting or anything. 700 nuggets of wisdom, dumbdom, or whatever else I felt like shooting into cyberspace. Yeah me!)
Sixela: Barbarella was made before I was born, Mr. Smarty Pants!
I tried to upload a picture of Anita Pallenburg as the eye patched Black Queen, but I couldn't. Hrumph!
No need to upload anything.
I'm just figuring out if Emma Peel would look better with an eyepatch or not, and then I'll know.
Awww, what do you know. Your old and crotchety. I thought that's how they looked back in your day.
I concur (only because she is a blonde).
Look at her eyebrows.
I said it once, I'll say it again. EYEBROW PENCIL!!!!!!
Yeah, that's what EYE use.
They'll never learn, will they, Nymph?
You'd think a man of the world would at least casually consult his documentation (aka the February 2007 edition of Playboy magazine) before putting his foot in his mouth in a post about Tricia Helfer.
Why, you use the eyebrow pencil too?
PTFA - I'm Six.
But that was still BACK in your day?
The number six model does require a tune up and oil change every few hundred years.
And, oh, she has a few homocidal tendencies.
Viva la Besançon!
I like that when everyone finally reaches the point of understanding that talking about commercial absinthe is a losing endeavor there's still something more to be said to drive the point home.
There are so many commercial absinthe names that it would be impossible to distinguish that any name isn't a commercial brand. Discussion of home distillation is another thing. I prefer the uncompromising brands.
Home maceration is sufficient for me.
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