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The Fée Verte Absinthe Forum - The Oldest, Largest, Most Authoritative Absinthe Forum. _ Administrative News & Site Updates _ Home Distillation Discussion

Posted by: Admin Apr 30 2004, 08:00 AM

We have stated in the past that we cannot allow the discussion
of home distillation. We must now insist in more detail that
the discussion of, the (discussion of) purchasing of, posting
photos of, or the reviewing and adoration of any home distillation
product/experiment is STRICTLY PROHIBITED on FeeVerte.

Home distillation is a criminal activity. Purchasing home brew
is also a criminal activity.

We understand how this compromises your freedom of speech and
how it will affect the discussions of the get togethers and
Absinthe in general. However home distillation is a
highly monitored criminal activity.

If you feel obliged to discuss these things please do so privately
or elsewhere.

We have very sound reasons for such a drastic directive.
Kindly be mindful of this and please accept our sincere apologies.

Regards
Kallisti & Admin

Posted by: Hiram Apr 30 2004, 03:19 PM

Aye, aye, cap'ns. pirate2.gif

Do you think it might be appropriate to ammend the Forum Etiquette to read something to the effect of:

Due to recent events, as of May 2004 the Sepulchritude Forums cannot allow the technical discussion of the distillation of spirits, the discussion of, discussing the purchasing of, posting photos of, or the reviewing and adoration of any home distillation product/experiment, as such activities are illegal in the U.S. and carry severe penalties. This is in order to protect the forum participants from unwanted attention from such agencies as the ATF. Please be aware that this is a publicly read forum, and keep that in mind when making your posts. Inappropriate posts will be deleted. Please contact a moderator if you have any questions.

Also, it may be wise to give 'em a heads up (as it were) over at the Lounge.

Posted by: Artemis Apr 30 2004, 03:36 PM

QUOTE
Also, it may be wise to give 'em a heads up (as it were) over at the Lounge.


They know about it.

Posted by: Wolfgang May 1 2004, 02:55 AM

If I'm not mistaking, buying (importing) absinthe in the US is also in itself an illegal activity, which means we should stop talking about ANY absinthes poured in the US.

Just to be consistant you know...


Anyway, I understand and fully support this new rules update.

Posted by: tabreaux May 1 2004, 04:41 AM

QUOTE (Wolfgang @ Apr 30 2004, 06:55 PM)
If I'm not mistaking, buying (importing) absinthe in the US is also in itself an illegal activity, which means we should stop talking about ANY absinthes poured in the US.

But under ordinary circumstances that does not constitute criminal activity, and this should be clarified.

Posted by: Conju May 1 2004, 06:45 AM

Did something happen to provoke this? Or is it just precautionairy, as it were?

Posted by: Absomphe May 1 2004, 06:51 AM

oops

Posted by: dr_ordinaire May 1 2004, 11:14 AM

Kallisti, doesn't the Homebrewing section of the FAQ break this new rule?

Posted by: MrGreenGenes May 3 2004, 03:47 PM

To my knowledge it is not illegal to soak herbs in vodka, so referring to this technique should not be problematic.

Posted by: BlackJack May 3 2004, 11:28 PM

...except to the tastebuds...

Posted by: dr_ordinaire May 4 2004, 12:24 AM

Actually I was referring to the links to home distilling sites in the Homebrewing section and the description of the distilling process in the Historical Recipes section.

Mind you, I'm not critizicing, I thought this might have been overlooked by Admin.

Posted by: Kallisti May 4 2004, 01:20 AM

No, they haven't been overlooked. The direct references I supply are historical documents and I link to offsite resources for people to get practical data. I believe providing information of this nature neither endangers people here nor breaks the law.

I hope so anyway.

Posted by: Conju May 4 2004, 01:26 AM

I would save those pages on your hard drives, just in case.

Posted by: MrGreenGenes May 4 2004, 06:50 PM

One of the unintended effects of the DMCA was that websites could be shut down not only for posting copyrighted data but even providing links to copyrighted data on completely different sites!

But copyright is not an issue here. The links are just links to information, and should be no different that a public library that might carry a book about distillation. The position of the FAQ is "we don't talk about home distillation. If that's what you're looking for, go here."


Posted by: Trishymouse May 10 2004, 08:03 PM

absintheglass-glow2.gif
If anyone knows a link to the laws prohibiting Absinthe in general, and home brewing in particular, please post here.

I'll look myself and if I find it, I'll post it...

Posted by: Absomphe May 10 2004, 09:01 PM

Happy Birthday, Trishy!

There are no laws prohibiting home brewing, that refers to beermaking.

Home "macerating" of absinthe isn't illegal either.

You mean home distillation, which IS illegal, be it absinthe, or any other liquor!

Posted by: Trishymouse May 10 2004, 09:21 PM

I found some law about this online...

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/absinthe/absinthe_law.shtml

If I'm reading it right, homebrewing isn't illegal per se, but requires a license??



Posted by: Trishymouse May 10 2004, 09:27 PM

By the way, thank you for remembering my birthday, that is thoughtful. I shall spend my evening off of work doing what I normally do - trying to get as much writing done as possible...a never-ending task, but I enjoy the processes (online content mostly, but other venues, too...)

http://trishymouse.net
http://waitingplace.blogspot.com
http://writers_block.blogspot.com
http://ourmother.blogspot.com
http://trishymouse.blogspot.com

Posted by: Hiram May 10 2004, 09:45 PM

Hey Trish! You made it. Cheers!

abs-cheers.gif

Posted by: Conju May 10 2004, 09:49 PM

I told you I had healing powers! I could be the next doctor frankenstein!

Posted by: Hiram May 10 2004, 09:54 PM

http://www.retrostats.com/gb/gb.php?id=1109 conju.

Posted by: traineraz May 11 2004, 03:01 AM

offtopic2.gif

Welcome to NOT THE LOUNGE.

>hint, hint<

Posted by: Absomphe May 11 2004, 03:56 AM

QUOTE (Trishymouse @ May 10 2004, 02:21 PM)
I found some law about this online...

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/absinthe/absinthe_law.shtml

If I'm reading it right, homebrewing isn't illegal per se, but requires a license??

One doesn't require a license to homebrew...the only restriction placed upon the homebrewer, is a certain number of maximum gallons per household per year, but I've never heard of that being enforced.

Once again, we are talking home BREWING here, not absinthe macerating.

Posted by: I_B_Puffin May 11 2004, 05:00 AM

I think most of the laws about legal distillation can be found at www.atf.gov but that is only at the federal level. There are also state laws to consider.

Posted by: tabreaux May 11 2004, 05:03 PM

QUOTE (Trishymouse @ May 10 2004, 01:21 PM)
If I'm reading it right, homebrewing isn't illegal per se, but requires a license??

Some brief info...

Anyone can buy retailed alcohol and macerate it with herbs without legal implications, so long as it is for personal use and is not being resold (which is a big no-no).

Distillation opens up a virtual 'pandora's box' of applicable federal and state implications. Said implications begin with the mere ownership of a device that constitutes an unlicensed still (a criminal offense in itself), worsen with operation of the same, and become exceptionally damning if the product of such activity is bought/sold.

The 'license' mentioned refers to acquiring a license from the ATF to own/operate a still. While the concept seems simple enough, in actuality it's easier to acquire a license to own/operate fully automatic weapons.

Posted by: Lord Stanley May 11 2004, 10:41 PM

God Bless America

Posted by: Absomphe May 11 2004, 11:16 PM

sp_ike.gif

Posted by: Lord Stanley May 12 2004, 12:33 AM

tongue.gif

Posted by: Jaded Prol May 12 2004, 11:00 AM

In Virginia, it would be easier to obtain components for WMDs than to get permission to buy Everclear, though you can get it from eleswhere online.

Then again, in Virginian only the missionary position between legally married people is legal.

Posted by: Admin May 13 2004, 03:39 AM

Hmmmm?

It seems now, that not only are you not supposed
to discuss home distillation, you will also not be able
to discuss Spirits Corner.




Posted by: Head_prosthesis May 13 2004, 03:40 AM

Yeah! They raised the price of Serpis! DAMN!!!!

Posted by: absinthespoon May 13 2004, 03:49 AM

...

Posted by: thegreenimp May 13 2004, 04:37 AM

I was surprised by their "announcement". frusty.gif

Posted by: traineraz May 13 2004, 05:08 AM

Shocking, ain't it? shock.gif

Posted by: Lord Stanley May 13 2004, 05:21 AM

I'm sure that package would just fly through customs without a hitch.

Posted by: I_B_Puffin May 13 2004, 05:41 AM

Did anyone respond? I sent Federico an email telling him that owning a still in this country was a crime, and it would probably be best not to sell them here. I also told him that selling ingedients would ok.

Posted by: I_B_Puffin May 13 2004, 05:44 AM

Maybe I should have added that artemisia should be labeled, not for human consumption.

Posted by: traineraz May 13 2004, 06:40 AM

Nah, you can get it at the health food store.

Gets rid of tape worms, ya know.

Also an abortifacient, so if yer pregnant or nursing, don't use it.

Posted by: tabreaux May 13 2004, 03:12 PM

QUOTE (I_B_Puffin @ May 12 2004, 09:41 PM)
I also told him that selling ingedients would ok.

It may be ok...so long as it is accompanied by a legal phytosanitary certificate.

It's never as easy as it seems is it?

Posted by: I_B_Puffin May 14 2004, 04:46 AM

Is a phytosanitary certificate needed for dried spices?

Posted by: I_B_Puffin May 14 2004, 05:49 AM

Federico mailed me back.

QUOTE
Thank you very much for your information.

Owing a pot still for spirits distillation is also illegal in Spain, but the
stills we are thinking of are very small: 5, 10, 15 liters, so that they are
sold as decorative items. You can find them in some stores. What you cannot
find are bigger stills. It is similar to glass stills (if they are called
like this, the typical glass things in a chemistry laboratory), with which
you also can distill a spirit. This is the situation here in Spain.

I thank you for your comments on the herbs, we will include them a little
further on.

Posted by: Conju May 14 2004, 05:53 AM

Nevmind.

Posted by: Hiram May 16 2004, 05:35 PM

QUOTE (I_B_Puffin @ May 13 2004, 09:46 PM)
Is a phytosanitary certificate needed for dried spices?

Nothing spooky and mysterious. A phytosanitary certificate is required in the import/export of most plant matter - which plant matter varies from country to country. They just want to make sure that you're not importing something that could be the next kudzu and doesn't contain any nasties that will kill us all or adversely effect our argriculture: "Under the International Plant Protection Convention, it has been agreed that all signatory countries will carry out the required inspection and treatment to ensure that quarantine and other noxious pests are not disseminated along with plants and plant products exported from their respective countries. "

It's obvious that spices and herbs are a huge import/export commodity and it's no big deal so long as the necessary inspections have been made. http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ppq/pim/exports/basic_information.htm

Posted by: traineraz May 16 2004, 07:04 PM

Probably easier to buy them in the States, anyway.

Cheaper, too!

Posted by: I_B_Puffin May 18 2004, 02:23 AM

I thought some of the ingredients like Artemisia pontica weren't easily availables in the US, since Artemisia plants are generally banned for use in foods.

I checked the website and it looks like
QUOTE
SPICES BOTTLED OR PACKAGED FOR RETAIL
don't need phytosanitary certification, which I suspected, but wasn't sure. http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ppq/pim/exports/ineligible_commodities.html

Posted by: Conju May 18 2004, 05:05 AM

So is it legal to own a still for decorative purposes?

Posted by: Head_prosthesis May 18 2004, 05:20 AM

Decorative purposes should be illegal.

Form is bad. Function is good.

Long Live the New Flesh.

Posted by: Hiram May 18 2004, 05:36 AM

Fuck Mies Van der Rohe.

Posted by: Billynorm May 18 2004, 06:37 AM

QUOTE (conju @ May 18 2004, 12:05 AM)
So is it legal to own a still for decorative purposes?

I found this
user posted image
here: http://www.italiancookingandliving.com/store/accessories/distillery.html
Apparently it's used for making grappa.


Posted by: traineraz May 18 2004, 07:52 AM

Doesn't look like it'd make a whole helluvalot of grappa.

A grape's worth?

. . . and the Farnsworth House is stunning.

Posted by: Billynorm May 18 2004, 08:09 AM

QUOTE (traineraz @ May 18 2004, 02:52 AM)
Doesn't look like it'd make a whole helluvalot of grappa.

True. But even if it produced just a shot glass' worth of grappa, then it's not being used for decorative purposes is it? It seems to me that I'd seen a similar still in a Sharper Image (or somesuch) catalog several years ago with blurb saying it could be used to make whiskey or brandy.

Posted by: badger May 18 2004, 01:56 PM

QUOTE (I_B_Puffin @ May 17 2004, 06:23 PM)
I thought some of the ingredients like Artemisia pontica weren't easily availables in the US, since Artemisia plants are generally banned for use in foods.

I checked the website and it looks like
QUOTE
SPICES BOTTLED OR PACKAGED FOR RETAIL
don't need phytosanitary certification, which I suspected, but wasn't sure. http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ppq/pim/exports/ineligible_commodities.html

For decerative purposes I purchased Artemsea Pontica, Powus, Absinthium, and 2 others. I got them at an herb store a couple weeks ago and they are taking off at an icredible rate. The Artemesea Absinthium plant has grown to an enormous 3-4 ft. already and is still growing. I heard wormwood is a great too for the garden because it natrually repels insects from the garden.

Posted by: Conju May 18 2004, 03:14 PM

Six?

Posted by: Absomphe May 18 2004, 04:28 PM

Reading the above, makes me glad I ceded my title to him, Conju. Sometimes it's just not worth the effort.

Posted by: sixela May 19 2004, 03:58 PM

QUOTE (badger @ May 18 2004, 03:56 PM)
For decerative purposes I purchased Artemsea Pontica,

Artemsea is perfect for defecatory purposes -- at least you won't be polluting the North Sea.

Or did you mean something else?

Posted by: Hiram May 19 2004, 04:58 PM

You guys don't get it. Sixela's brain works differently from those of ordinary mortals. Let me illustrate:


What we see:

user posted image

What Sixela sees (artist's conception):

user posted image



And the Farnsworth House is a rectangular, stunning piece of shit. It's a goddamned shed. No wonder the Nazis ran the sons-of-bitches out of Germany.

Posted by: verbal_kraze May 19 2004, 05:05 PM

Classic.

Posted by: Balzdeep May 20 2004, 03:12 AM

Dammit Hiram, now all I see is my drink running down my screen! That is the funniest thing I have seen in a damned long time!

Posted by: Conju May 20 2004, 03:16 AM

EXACTLY!!

Posted by: Gertz May 21 2004, 11:43 AM

It's SixerVision™!!!

Posted by: Masque May 22 2004, 03:52 AM

Where does he get such wonderful toys...

Posted by: traineraz May 22 2004, 08:28 PM

How you do dat? blink.gif

Posted by: le Gimp May 26 2004, 12:38 AM

I wonder if I ring my garden with Artemisia Absinthium, would it keep the rabbits out, or would they just shimmy under it and hit the cabbage any way?

Little fuckers are going to get me pissed pretty soon. I'll get the RWS #36 our if they don't stay away.

We have a drainage pond not far fromt he house. I'm planting lemon balm around the back porch to see if it helps there. I read somwhere that it was a natural mosqueto repellant.

Posted by: justabob Jun 5 2004, 06:03 AM

QUOTE (Artemis @ Apr 30 2004, 07:36 AM)
QUOTE
Also, it may be wise to give 'em a heads up (as it were) over at the Lounge.


They know about it.

They may be aware of it, but it hasn't slowed activity any in the ole thoughts on making absinthe section.

Your sig line made me chuckle, as I have not read read the works of Frank Herbert in many years.

Posted by: Artemis Jun 5 2004, 01:08 PM

Absinthium keeps insects away; they won't touch it.

As for rabbits, I've read that you can use urine of animals that put the fear of God into rabbits, such as cats. How you milk the urine from the cats, I don't know. Maybe used cat litter? But then your garden would be less than fragrant. Rabbits are good diggers, not to mention leapers, so fences are iffy. You might just have to share with them.

As for the Lounge, what I meant was that one or more Lounge moderators participated in (private) discussions at this forum which revolved around the latest ban on THAT subject here - therefore it wasn't necessary for anybody to go and report to them or anything. Said moderators are members of this forum, after all. What came out of it, I couldn't say - I haven't read the Lounge in many moons.

You're the second person to mention Frank Herbert. He wrote "Dune", right? I never read it. I saw the TV production (part of it anyway), the one with Sting in it. A little bald-headed girl, talking about the apparent hero, says something like "For he IS the Cuisinart Shadarack" - a messiah of some sort, I guess.

Posted by: pierreverte Jun 5 2004, 06:16 PM

>Absinthium keeps insects away; they won't touch it.

not in france...there are little black bugs that love to hang out on the nice fresh shoots of my a.a. plant. they don't seem to do any damage, though...

Posted by: Artemis Jun 5 2004, 06:29 PM

I should have said "they won't EAT it" .... I was still thinking about the rabbits.

Posted by: Zman Jun 5 2004, 07:01 PM

The little black bugs are common aphids. Aphids LOVE absinthium. A healthy dose of ladybugs is often enough to get rid of the aphids. The aphids won't do much damage unless the infestation gets extreme.

Posted by: Icarus Jun 5 2004, 08:03 PM

I had a crazy outbreak of aphids last year on my A.A. I shook the hell outta the branches, sprayed on some soapy water, then washed liberally with the hose. viking_emoticon.gif

Suckers disappered after that.


Posted by: Lord Stanley Jun 5 2004, 10:39 PM

In this area, we get infested with those damn Asian Ladybugs every spring. Like Zman said, they are supposed to good at eliminating aphids. I could have sent you a few thousand, Icarus.

Posted by: Artemis Jun 6 2004, 12:25 AM

That's interesting; I've never seen bugs of any type near my wormwood except spiders. Of course, the presence of spiders means bugs are surely there. For sure I've never seen damage to as much as a single leaf from insects. Aphids are a nasty pain in the ass. So are the ladybugs when they invade the house in the autumn, but they do destroy aphids.

Posted by: hobgoblin Jul 4 2004, 02:21 PM

Aphids are usually crawling all over my Wormwood plant. Unfortunately the ladybugs don't tend to go near it, they usually spend there time on the honeysuckle (which is also usually crawling with aphids).

Posted by: le Gimp Jul 5 2004, 02:07 AM

Speaking of Artemesia, Here is a pix of the most common realted plant in the local area. It is called Dusty Miller, which is not strictly an Artemisia, but a Senecio Cineraria, which appears to be related. This is the first one I've seen bloom in the 20+ years I have lived here.

user posted image

Posted by: Icarus Jul 5 2004, 03:19 AM

Hmm, I've never seen one bloom either...
abs-cheers.gif

Posted by: le Gimp Jul 6 2004, 02:39 AM

Surprisingly enough, I saw some honey bees on the flowers today while I was working in the yard. I would not have expected honey bees to be attracted to it.

I checked a half dozen other plants round the area this weekend, and none are flowering.


Posted by: Ribosome Aug 6 2004, 12:02 PM

Did you know that homedistilling is legal in newzealand.

Posted by: G&C Aug 6 2004, 02:00 PM

Ummm, yes.

Posted by: Conju Aug 6 2004, 02:58 PM

You've been scheduled for BURNINATION!!!!

Posted by: Hiram Aug 6 2004, 03:04 PM

QUOTE (le Gimp @ Jul 4 2004, 08:07 PM)
Speaking of Artemesia, Here is a pix of the most common realted plant in the local area. It is called Dusty Miller, which is not strictly an Artemisia, but a Senecio Cineraria...

Weird. What gets sold for a "Dusty Miller" around here is Artemisia stelleriana.

user posted image
QUOTE
..there are little black bugs that love to hang out on the nice fresh shoots of my a.a. plant. 


Also I get "spittlebugs" on my A.a.

user posted image

Posted by: le Gimp Aug 6 2004, 03:14 PM

Interesting:

http://www.desert-tropicals.com/Plants/Asteraceae/Senecio_cineraria.html

And:

http://www.borealforest.org/world/herbs_shrubs/dusty_miller.htm


Posted by: Hiram Aug 6 2004, 03:24 PM

QUOTE (le Gimp @ Aug 6 2004, 09:14 AM)
Interesting:

http://www.desert-tropicals.com/Plants/Asteraceae/Senecio_cineraria.html

And:

http://www.borealforest.org/world/herbs_shrubs/dusty_miller.htm

Yep. That's what I found.

Posted by: WhyteKnight Aug 6 2004, 03:28 PM

The majority of my home state is pretty much covered with Artemisia

Posted by: le Gimp Aug 6 2004, 03:29 PM

No wonder nurseries can't keep straight what they are selling.

Posted by: Jack Batemaster Aug 6 2004, 04:51 PM

QUOTE (WhyteKnight @ Aug 6 2004, 08:28 AM)
The majority of my home state is pretty much covered with Artemisia

(Since you DIDN'T FINISH filling out your profile) And that would be?

Oh, and spitbugs are good. They kill aphids.

Posted by: Hiram Aug 6 2004, 05:42 PM

QUOTE (le Gimp @ Aug 6 2004, 09:29 AM)
No wonder nurseries can't keep straight what they are selling.

That's why you always buy by the botanical name.

Posted by: WhyteKnight Aug 6 2004, 06:30 PM

QUOTE (Jack Batemaster @ Aug 6 2004, 10:51 AM)
(Since you DIDN'T FINISH filling out your profile) And that would be?

Oh yeah. I should do that. Wyoming.

Artemisia tridentata and Artemisia wyomingensis (two of the about 10 or so varieties of sagebrush throughout the western US) are pretty thick statewide. Some of the other varieties grow here as well but I believe that those two are the most prevalent. I can recall having seen Artemisia tridentata upwards of 3 or 4 feet, whose main stalks were about as thick and as stout as a tree's.

Posted by: simon Aug 27 2004, 10:26 AM

Funny you should mention spiders and aphids...I have a field absolutely full of AA plants behind my house and whenever i have picked the plants they have been covered in those damn shiny little black bugs,which congregate in clusters here and there. But i must admit i havn't seen any damage to the plants though.

Posted by: Icarus Aug 27 2004, 04:16 PM

Some people have all the luck.

Posted by: Jaded Prol Aug 27 2004, 07:34 PM

Apparently some bugs too.

Posted by: Rabelais Aug 31 2004, 09:30 AM

Having just moved to Italy, guess what they sell in the local home and garden centers ?

Sized 1 to 50 liters, home distillation is legal in Italy.

I think I may do something I cant discuss here.

censored2.gif

Posted by: verbal_kraze Aug 31 2004, 03:32 PM

Well I have no idea what you could possibly be talking about, but you are one lucky bastard none the less.

Posted by: Jaded Prol Aug 31 2004, 04:22 PM

Hmmm, Italy could be a good place to move . . .
(Great Fennel!)

Posted by: Donnie Darko Aug 31 2004, 04:59 PM

The ironic thing is that in plenty of countries where it's legal, it's a pain in the ass because you have to get all these permits and register the still and they usually set the home still size limit at 2 liters.

Posted by: I_B_Puffin Sep 1 2004, 04:21 AM

New Zealand is another great country.

Posted by: BeerBrewer Sep 4 2004, 06:00 PM

It's legal to own a home distillery in the USA as long as it's only used for legal ditillation, such as "essential oils" or distilled water. Of course, the same setup could be used illegally to manufacture alcohol... but that would be wrong, wouldn't it?

It's sort of like owning a car capable of 200 MPH. It's legal to own it, but it's illegal to get caught driving that fast.

https://databasesrus.ws/scripts/storefronts/mybh/productdisplay.php?ProductRetail=0&ProductName=none&ProductNumber=none&Action=none&Category=HOME%20DISTILLERY%20for%20Oils%20only.&CatIndex=27&InvoiceNumber=0

Posted by: Hiram Sep 4 2004, 06:27 PM

They're required by law to let the feds know who buys them, too.

Edit: Fixed the weird copy/paste error. I was channeling Gimpy.

Posted by: BeerBrewer Sep 4 2004, 07:15 PM

QUOTE (Hiram @ Sep 4 2004, 02:27 PM)
They're required by law to give information on who let the feds know who buys them, too.

Actually, retailers aren't required to keep any records on sales of distilleries in the USA. I know this for a fact (I've sold 'em). Manufacturers may keep records on retailers, but they have no idea who the ultimate consumer is. As a retailer, I would never jeopardize a customer. That would be like shooting myself in the foot.

Posted by: Hiram Sep 4 2004, 07:46 PM

TITLE 27--ALCOHOL, TOBACCO PRODUCTS AND FIREARMS

CHAPTER I--ALCOHOL AND TOBACCO TAX AND TRADE BUREAU, DEPARTMENT OF THE
TREASURY

PART 29_STILLS AND MISCELLANEOUS REGULATIONS--Table of Contents

Subpart C_Stills

Sec. 29.47 Notice requirement; manufacture of stills.

(a) General. When required by letter issued by the appropriate ATF
officer and until notified to the contrary by the appropriate ATF
officer, every person who manufactures any still, boiler (double or pot
still), condenser, or other apparatus to be used for the purpose of
distilling shall give written notice before the still or distilling
apparatus is removed from the place of manufacture.
(b) Preparation. The notice will be prepared in letter form,
executed under the penalties of perjury, and show the following
information:
(1) The name and address of the manufacturer;
(2) The name and complete address of the person by whom the
apparatus is to be used, and of any other person for, by, or through
whom the apparatus is ordered or disposed of;

(3) The distilling purpose for which the apparatus is to be used
(distillation of spirits, redistillation of spirits or recovery of
spirits, including denatured spirits and articles containing spirits or
denatured spirits);

[[Page 785]]

(4) The manufacturer's serial number of the apparatus;
(5) The type and kind of apparatus;
(6) The distilling capacity of the apparatus; and
(7) The date the apparatus is to be removed from the place of
manufacture.
© Filing. The notice will be filed in accordance with the
instructions in the letter of the appropriate ATF officer. A copy of the
notice will be retained at the place of manufacture as provided by Sec.
29.59.

(Approved by the Office of Management and Budget under control number
1512-0341)

(Sec. 843, Pub. L. 98-369, 98 Stat. 818 (26 U.S.C. 5101))

[T.D. ATF-207, 50 FR 23682, June 5, 1985; 50 FR 28572, July 15, 1985;
T.D. ATF-439, 66 FR 8769, Feb. 2, 2001]

Posted by: BeerBrewer Sep 4 2004, 08:24 PM

QUOTE (Hiram @ Sep 4 2004, 03:46 PM)

of any other person for, by, or through ;
whom the apparatus is ordered or disposed of


That's all lovely, and certainly applies to COMMERCIAL ALCOHOL STILLS. Small stills designed for "home extraction of essential oils" are not traceable to the ultimate consumer. The manufacturers from whom we purchase, as retailers, certainly know who we are. But we are not required to keep, nor do we keep, any records of end consumers purchasing "essential oil extractors". It simply is not a requirement, nor an issue.

Posted by: le Gimp Sep 5 2004, 02:35 AM

I think the manufacturer and distributers are skirting the legalities by stating that the units are made for other purposes.

If it ever gets above the noise level and the appropriate govt agency decides to investigate they will not have a leg to stand on.


I'll stick to making Beer. And speaking of which, I need to brew again since the weather is cooling off.

Beer, natures perfect food (The Belgian Monistaries had it right for lent).

Posted by: Head_prosthesis Sep 5 2004, 03:56 AM

Wish I'd had my camera today. The most wonderful
bath tub still I've ever seen was at an antique store
in Martinez. "Found in a secret room in Pacific Heights
in San Francisco $275"


Posted by: le Gimp Sep 5 2004, 04:42 AM

I've seen some really nice old (small) stills on sale on e-bay. It makes one wonder how widespread it was 50 or more years ago.

The nicest copper pot still I've seen close up is at the Conch Republic Resturant in Key West. It is a Rum Still, and looks to beabout a 200L capacity unit. The lynn arm looked all wrong though.


Posted by: Grim Sep 5 2004, 06:52 AM

QUOTE
The lynn arm looked all wrong though...


Explain.

Posted by: WhyteKnight Sep 5 2004, 07:27 AM

The lyne arm is the toppy bit of the still, consisting mostly of the first section of the conduit that sends the vapourized alcohol to the condenser. I think its also called the swan's neck or somesuch. By looking "all wrong" I'm presuming what was meant was that it looked as though it didn't fit in with the rest of the setup or something.

We've got an old 5 gallon or so copper moonshine pot around somewhere with lead seams and patches all over it...yum yum. wacko.gif

Posted by: Conju Sep 5 2004, 07:39 AM

Remind me to never drink your absinthe.

Posted by: WhyteKnight Sep 5 2004, 08:05 AM

We don't actually use it harhar.gif Besides that I gave up when it wasn't bitter enough.

O-Bomb.gif

Posted by: G&C Sep 5 2004, 09:18 AM

Sure you did.



gun thug.gif

Posted by: Artemis Sep 5 2004, 02:53 PM

QUOTE
It's legal to own a home distillery in the USA as long as it's only used for legal ditillation, such as "essential oils" or distilled water.


It's not legal to USE a still in the U.S. to process ANYTHING that results in alcohol coming out the discharge end, even if you start with already-taxed alcohol.

QUOTE
That's all lovely, and certainly applies to COMMERCIAL ALCOHOL STILLS.


There are only two kinds of alcohol stills in the U.S.: COMMERCIAL alcohol stills and ILLEGAL alcohol stills. This is a fact, thoroughly hashed out here years ago - it's a dead horse that requires no further beating.

Posted by: traineraz Sep 5 2004, 09:13 PM

Not to nit-pick, but you CAN legally buy a water-distillation still. However, it's designed to boil water (212F) and not alcohol (about 160F, if I recall).

Posted by: Hiram Sep 6 2004, 03:00 AM

QUOTE (le Gimp @ Sep 4 2004, 07:35 PM)
I think the  manufacturer and distributers are skirting the legalities by stating that the units are made for other purposes.

You got that right. Besides, that legal "essential oil extractor" linked to is worse than useless for absinthe.

So what happens if the feds come by and want to know what you do with all that essential oil - or want to see some?

The "legal" schtick is totally transparent and just wouldn't "wash" if it came right down to it.

Posted by: le Gimp Sep 6 2004, 03:39 AM

When I say it didn't look right, I was refering to the size of the lynnh arm to the pot itself.

A 200 gallon pot (useable for 200L or slightly more) whould have a large take off port.

It looked like someone attached asection of 3/8" copper tubing to it like one would see in an Abby cap comic strip.

user posted image

Posted by: justabob Sep 6 2004, 03:45 AM

There is no way the diameter of that tubing could support the output of that still. It is simply a decorative representation.

I believe there was such a still pictured in an Andy cap comic.

Posted by: justabob Sep 6 2004, 03:54 AM

Not Andy cap, I meant Li'l Abner. Down in ole Dogpatch USA.

Posted by: Artemis Sep 6 2004, 11:55 AM

QUOTE
Not to nit-pick, but you CAN legally buy a water-distillation still.


Yes. But no way can you legally run alcohol through it, or run a mash through it to concentrate alcohol, unless you have a license. I should have said "licensed" vs. "commercial".

Hiram is right - the essential oil scam will only fly as long as nobody checks up on it. Once the cops arrive at your place, you're pretty much fucked no matter what the law says, in any case.

Posted by: Hiram Sep 6 2004, 05:44 PM

QUOTE (justabob @ Sep 5 2004, 08:54 PM)
Not Andy cap, I meant Li'l Abner. Down in ole Dogpatch USA.

Where they really know how to smack hogs.

user posted image

I loves me some Stupefyin' Jones!

You guys were confusing Al Capp, the author of the Li'l Abner strip, with Andy Capp, the Geordie character created by Reg Smythe.

Posted by: Absomphe Sep 6 2004, 06:45 PM

QUOTE (Hiram @ Sep 6 2004, 11:44 AM)
QUOTE (justabob @ Sep 5 2004, 08:54 PM)
Not Andy cap, I meant Li'l Abner. Down in ole Dogpatch USA.

Where they really know how to smack hogs.

I hear tell they do a purty fair job of that, in the Emerald City. worshippy.gif

Posted by: Jaded Prol Sep 6 2004, 06:54 PM

Pass that kickapoo joy juice.

Posted by: MrGreenGenes Sep 7 2004, 04:42 AM

This thread sure is a long-lived for one named after something we're not 'sposed to talk about.

Posted by: le Gimp Nov 3 2005, 06:26 PM

Just to dead-horse.gif , I really like the Aventinus Eisbock.

http://ratebeer.com/Ratings/Beer/Beer-Ratings.asp?BeerID=10514

Too bad I can't make any since the US Govt in it's infinite wisdom defines freezing beer and removing some of the ice to be distillation shock.gif .

Posted by: PDXAbsinthe Mar 25 2007, 05:14 AM

It is legal to distil alcohol at home in the USA for “fuel purposes” the permit is inexpensive and there are several still makers in the USA selling their wares.

http://www.ttb.gov/industrial/alcoholfuel_bg.shtml


This is an international forum it’s stupid distillation cannot be discussed here.

Posted by: crosby Mar 25 2007, 06:53 AM

Tell that to Agent Dressler.

Posted by: Kirk Mar 25 2007, 01:39 PM

This an international forum, it's stupid to discuss distillation here.

Posted by: Absomphe Mar 25 2007, 04:05 PM

Damn straight.

Posted by: Head_prosthesis Mar 25 2007, 05:12 PM

QUOTE(PDXAbsinthe @ Mar 24 2007, 11:14 PM) *

It is legal to distil alcohol at home in the USA for “fuel purposes” the permit is inexpensive and there are several still makers in the USA selling their wares.

http://www.ttb.gov/industrial/alcoholfuel_bg.shtml


This is an international forum it’s stupid distillation cannot be discussed here.



It's arrogant and selfish of you to think that we're being
"stupid" by not allowing you to talk about distillation. This forum
is privately owned by one person. This is not an "international" forum
that is untouchable by the long arm of the law.

This rule is not going to change on your account. If you don't like it
you know what you can do.


Posted by: justabob Mar 25 2007, 06:11 PM

Try this place

http://www.homedistiller.org/forum/index.php?sid=167082358084732f8c52eea20fddbae0

Posted by: PDXAbsinthe Mar 25 2007, 07:13 PM

Are you nimrods trying to tell me skilled distillation, the type of still, materials, is irrelevant to quality Absinthe and not worth talking about.... well that’s fucking brilliant!


cdog-plain.gif



It’s is not illegal to talk about home distillation as pointed out there are many countries where home distalation is legal and there are people on this forum from these countries. IF the owner of this site has some moral or personal objection to this discussion …fine It’s his/ her web site but let’s not bull shit people with a LIE that it’s Illegal to talk about it. To make the point more clear homedistiller.com is owned and operated out of California and there are people selling fully functioning stills in the USA the only thing that’s illegal is distilling without permit.


http://www.coppermoonshinestills.com/

http://www.revenoor.com/GenWebPage.ihtml?formid=9


Here's a still for sell on Ebay!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Moonshine-Still-Copper-Whiskey-Alcohol-Ethanol- Stills_W0QQitemZ190094350756QQcategoryZ38172QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewIte
m





Posted by: justabob Mar 25 2007, 08:09 PM

QUOTE(PDXAbsinthe @ Mar 25 2007, 12:13 PM) *

Are you nimrods trying to tell me skilled distillation, the type of still, materials, is irrelevant to quality Absinthe and not worth talking about.... well that’s fucking brilliant!
QcategoryZ38172QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem]http://cgi.ebay.com/Moonshine-Still-Copper...1QQcmdZViewItem[/url]


It is worth talking about, and it is if you search a bit you will see there is much discussion related to historical production methods as it relates to commercial operations. This after all is a forum dedicated to a distilled beverage. This sites owner does not want home distillation discussed. It is after all his playground.

Posted by: Ari Mar 25 2007, 08:25 PM

Last I knew talking about how absinthe was distilled 100+ years ago didn't require posting links to places selling stills.
But I could be wrong.

Posted by: Provenance Mar 25 2007, 08:27 PM

QUOTE(crosby @ Mar 24 2007, 11:53 PM) *

Tell that to Agent Dressler.

You want PDX to talk to himself?

Posted by: crosby Mar 26 2007, 12:34 AM

At least he'd have an audience that didn’t think he was a nimrod.

Posted by: Head_prosthesis Mar 26 2007, 03:48 AM

Wow. News flash.
Talking is not illegal.


Posted by: G&C Mar 26 2007, 06:57 AM

Not at this forum anyway.

Posted by: Head_prosthesis Mar 26 2007, 07:01 AM

Ok buddy, hands on the wall and spread 'em.

Posted by: G&C Mar 26 2007, 07:04 AM

Spread'em what?

Posted by: Head_prosthesis Mar 26 2007, 07:09 AM

You know the drill.

Posted by: hartsmar Mar 26 2007, 07:40 AM

So - he spreads 'em and you drill?

cdog-plain.gif

Posted by: Oxygenee Mar 26 2007, 12:09 PM

PDX:

Discussion of historical production methods, and for that matter modern commercial absinthe production is absolutely OK. Feel free to be as specific and technical as you want to be.

But discussion of home distillation of absinthe - something which at the moment is not legal under any circumstances in the US - is not allowed on this forum, even if couched in hypothetical terms or qualified by proforma disclaimers. The reason behind this prohibition is not some personal quirk, but rather the carefully considered judgement that to allow such discussions would not be in the overall best interests of our membership.

This is a decision taken in consultation with the senior members here, and one which we periodically review in private, but not one that I'm going to explain further at this stage, or debate in public.

Lastly PDX, your rudeness to my fellow admin displeased me. Displeasing me is unwise.

Posted by: MrsAbsomphe Mar 26 2007, 03:46 PM

QUOTE(Oxygenee @ Mar 26 2007, 06:09 AM) *

Displeasing me is unwise.


You can bank on that.

---Tish looking-up.gif

Posted by: Nymphadora Mar 26 2007, 05:17 PM

Don't get him angry. You wouldn't like him when he's angry.

Sorry, had to say it.

Posted by: thegreenimp Mar 26 2007, 10:24 PM

QUOTE(Oxygenee @ Mar 26 2007, 06:09 AM) *
Lastly PDX, your rudeness to my fellow admin displeased me. Displeasing me is unwise.


evill.gif



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Attached Image

Posted by: traineraz Mar 26 2007, 11:08 PM

What manner of schmuck bumps a year-and-a-half-dead thread to throw a temper tantrum, anyway? frusty.gif

Posted by: Head_prosthesis Mar 26 2007, 11:34 PM

No shit. Those people that started this
thread aren't even registered anymore!

Posted by: PDXAbsinthe Mar 27 2007, 06:16 AM

QUOTE(Oxygenee @ Mar 26 2007, 06:09 AM) *

PDX:

This is a decision taken in consultation with the senior members here, and one which we periodically review in private, but not one that I'm going to explain further at this stage, or debate in public.

Lastly PDX, your rudeness to my fellow admin displeased me. Displeasing me is unwise.



Ok I apologies for being so rude

The reasons given for a gag on distallation talk is inaccurate as I’ve pointed out discussions of home distillation is not illegal and is not a crime. truth be told, I’m more annoyed with the reason given than not being able to talk about distillation. Additionally members in New Zealand where home distillation and absinthe are legal would not be allowed to post their exploits here. In the end it is you forum and you make the rules.


QUOTE(traineraz @ Mar 26 2007, 05:08 PM) *

What manner of schmuck bumps a year-and-a-half-dead thread to throw a temper tantrum, anyway?



I would imagine the same manner of schmuck that would respond to a schmuck responding to a year-and-a-half-dead thread

Posted by: Kirk Mar 27 2007, 01:07 PM

Talking about doing something illegal is called conspiracy, conspiracy generally carries the same penalty as the crime itself.
Words are like those dirty pictures you took of yourself PDX, they last forever so you never know when or where they will turn up, why should we leave our words lying around?

Posted by: Jaded Prol Mar 27 2007, 01:27 PM

Everything you write will be used agaisnt you.

Posted by: Kirk Mar 27 2007, 02:21 PM

It's not that I give a xit, I'm not doing anything illegal and I don't want to encourage anyone else to do
anything illegal. If we discuss how it's done in detail, and you go out and do it, that could be construed as a conspiracy.

Posted by: PDXAbsinthe Mar 27 2007, 03:31 PM




QUOTE(Kirk @ Mar 27 2007, 07:07 AM) *

Talking about doing something illegal is called conspiracy, conspiracy generally carries the same penalty as the crime itself.
Words are like those dirty pictures you took of yourself PDX, they last forever so you never know when or where they will turn up, why should we leave our words lying around?



Sharing information about distillation, talking about the distillation processor or people sharing pics of illegal distillation operations does not constitute conspiracy.


Let me know if you want some of “those dirty pics” more than a few have your mom and sister in them




QUOTE(Kirk @ Mar 27 2007, 08:21 AM) *

It's not that I give a xit, I'm not doing anything illegal and I don't want to encourage anyone else to do
anything illegal. If we discuss how it's done in detail, and you go out and do it, that could be construed as a conspiracy.




Really ?


I’ll assume since you are in Virginia you’re not importing Absinth which violates US customs laws as is the web shop on this forum selling to clients in the USA


Posted by: sixela Mar 27 2007, 03:55 PM

There are no customs *laws*, merely regulations. Congress hasn't passed a law banning absinthe, and customs relies on the FDA's stance.

As for the "mother and sister" comment, it's a classic - welcome to the Hall of the Great Noroms™.

Posted by: Steyr850 Mar 27 2007, 03:58 PM

Have we exceeded the Winston cap for this year?

Posted by: mthuilli Mar 27 2007, 03:59 PM

GreenImp, we need a Winston™ here.

Edit: Steyr beat me to it

Posted by: crosby Mar 27 2007, 04:21 PM

I see the fuck-up fairy has visited us again.

Posted by: Oxygenee Mar 27 2007, 04:28 PM

PDX:

You're behaving like a troll.
3 options: Stop it, and start to contribute; leave and find a forum more to your liking; or continue as you are and risk exhausting my - and Head's - patience. Your call.

Posted by: Kirk Mar 27 2007, 04:43 PM

Thanks for the legal advice PDX, I'll keep that in mind.
As for the other, my dead mother and paraplegic sister thank you for the attention you gave them.

Posted by: thegreenimp Mar 27 2007, 07:19 PM

An idiot like pdxabsinthe is too stupid for a Winston, he rates a Fredie.


Attached image(s)
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Posted by: mthuilli Mar 27 2007, 07:36 PM

IPB Image

Posted by: Wild Bill Turkey Mar 27 2007, 07:49 PM

Oh, my Sweet Opaline that's funny!

Posted by: Kirk Mar 27 2007, 08:03 PM

PDX dreams of carrying on an intelligent conversation about distillation of absinthe.

Posted by: Jaded Prol Mar 27 2007, 08:21 PM

and that is OK -- but not online.

Posted by: Absomphe Mar 27 2007, 11:33 PM

QUOTE(Wild Bill Turkey @ Mar 27 2007, 01:49 PM) *

Oh, my Sweet Opaline that's funny!



As is that response.

Fookin' painfully hilarious, in fact.

Thanks for making my afternoon, gents! abs-cheers.gif

Posted by: peridot Mar 29 2007, 05:18 AM

QUOTE
An idiot like pdxabsinthe is too stupid for a Winston, he rates a Fredie.


That was so funny I just accidentally spit absinthe on myself. The laughs were worth the wasted sip.

Posted by: Donnie Darko Mar 29 2007, 08:27 PM

That was the hardest I've laughed in months.

Posted by: prattwink May 4 2007, 09:54 PM

Hold me please, mon chéri!

Anyhooo. About the distillation. This is kind of a chop.gify question, but I have to ask something a little more taboo, so feel free to kick my ass if I've crossed the line.
If one were to distill marijuana, not soak, but distill, would the resulting liquor have THC?
Or opium poppy, would the the liquor have opium?
I would think not...if that is true how could chop.gif wind up in absinthe...except maybe the coloring (soaking) process. And blanches would be down to zero, right?

Only the essence of the plant makes it over through the process, no solids.
Is this about right?


Posted by: absinthist May 5 2007, 11:44 AM

The amount of t h u j o n e in absinthe in mg/l varies according to the producer. After the distillation (in the end-product), a decrease may occur. Other factors that affect t h u j o n e final concentration are:
a) amount of t h u j o n e in cultivated wormwood plant
b) time of harvest (temperature and weather)
c) the process and conditions of drying
d) maceration (usually 12-48h)
e) distillation (especially which fraction is collected)

Still, you are free to use t h u j o n e-free wormwood plant chemotypes grown in France, Italy, Lithuania, etc and you do not have to worry if there is anything at whichever stage of production. Artemisia pontica used in colouration adds very little of t h u j o n e (up to 30% of essential oil).

AFAIK, but I am not dealing with that crap nor I am an expert, marijuana once distilled contains THC.

Posted by: G&C May 5 2007, 03:53 PM

QUOTE(absinthist @ May 5 2007, 04:44 AM) *


I really have no clue but have to comment, marijuana contains THC.



Posted by: Artemis May 5 2007, 04:20 PM

The ideal extraction methods for various plants varies from plant to plant. Just throwing something into liquid and adding heat doesn't guarantee anything. I wouldn't know about THC etc. but those answers are probably available elsewhere. Alcohol and water as the solvents, with heat, works for those plants that are used in absinthe.

Posted by: absinthist May 5 2007, 04:26 PM

QUOTE(G&C @ May 5 2007, 08:53 AM) *

QUOTE(absinthist @ May 5 2007, 04:44 AM) *


I really have no clue but have to comment, marijuana contains THC.



How did you know? harhar.gif If hashish distilled oil has THC in, why marijuana should not? Just speculating cluelessly abs-cheers.gif

Posted by: prattwink May 10 2007, 03:25 AM

Will someone point me to the thread or section where coloring absinthe is discussed?
I want to look into coloring the prototype 31 blanche myself.

Posted by: Grim May 11 2007, 09:03 AM

QUOTE(Artemis @ May 5 2007, 09:20 AM) *

The ideal extraction methods for various plants varies from plant to plant. Just throwing something into liquid and adding heat doesn't guarantee anything.

A while back I was browsin' through Boerhaave's Elementa Chemiae. Process LXI touches on this subject; extracting what is "saline and saponaceous" versus the parts "balsamic, oily and resinous." There's a hint of this passage that pops up in Fritsch.

Posted by: grey boy May 14 2007, 01:04 PM

I was at the garden shop this weekend getting herbs and tomato & pepper plants and was stuck behind a mental midget.
He was asking an employee where to get the mugwort "you know Artemisia vulgaris, I also need to buy Bronze fennel" in his cart he had melissa too, I asked him if he had any hyssop, he said "no, why". No reason, I just think it smells nice.
He then wiped his dripping nose with his sleeve.

Posted by: Jack Batemaster May 14 2007, 03:58 PM

QUOTE(Heady Pees @ Mar 25 2007, 11:12 AM) *


...It's arrogant and selfish of you to think that we're being
"stupid"...


Butt you are stupid, Stupid!

Posted by: absinthist May 14 2007, 05:27 PM

QUOTE(grey boy @ May 14 2007, 06:04 AM) *

I was at the garden shop this weekend getting herbs and tomato & pepper plants and was stuck behind a mental midget.
He was asking an employee where to get the mugwort "you know Artemisia vulgaris, I also need to buy Bronze fennel" in his cart he had melissa too, I asked him if he had any hyssop, he said "no, why". No reason, I just think it smells nice.
He then wiped his dripping nose with his sleeve.


Wait till he launches that assinth. A great pro, indeed het.gif

Posted by: prattwink May 14 2007, 07:11 PM

In the coloring step...does anyone here know what causes that blue-ish color like the Nouvelle-Orléans ?

Posted by: Jack Batemaster May 14 2007, 07:31 PM

Hills?

Posted by: absinthist May 14 2007, 07:37 PM

It's patent blue or brillant blue, not sure which is more blueish, btw. Still, a nice carcinogen to boost your absinthe wacko.gif

Posted by: traineraz May 14 2007, 08:18 PM

QUOTE(prattwink @ May 14 2007, 12:11 PM) *

In the coloring step...does anyone here know what causes that blue-ish color like the Nouvelle-Orléans ?

I bet Ted does.

Posted by: prattwink May 14 2007, 09:17 PM

I know...I asked, but I dont expect an answer due to trade secret clause.

Posted by: traineraz May 14 2007, 09:43 PM

I've heard mention of blue hibiscus for coloring. But I don't know if Ted uses it.

Posted by: Head_prosthesis May 15 2007, 02:24 AM

QUOTE(Jack Batemaster @ May 14 2007, 09:58 AM) *

QUOTE(Heady Pees @ Mar 25 2007, 11:12 AM) *


...It's arrogant and selfish of you to think that we're being
"stupid"...


Butt you are stupid, Stupid!



Thanks for the reminder, Corky.

Posted by: Absomphe May 15 2007, 12:44 PM

QUOTE(prattwink @ May 14 2007, 01:11 PM) *

In the coloring step...does anyone here know what causes that blue-ish color like the Nouvelle-Orléans ?



"Hills?"


Nope, it's a secret infusion of King George III's urine from his Blue Period.

Why do you think the stuff's so expensive, duh.

Posted by: dr_ordinaire May 31 2007, 09:55 AM

QUOTE(Artemis @ May 5 2007, 10:20 AM) *

The ideal extraction methods for various plants varies from plant to plant. Just throwing something into liquid and adding heat doesn't guarantee anything. I wouldn't know about THC etc. but those answers are probably available elsewhere. Alcohol and water as the solvents, with heat, works for those plants that are used in absinthe.


Hi, Arty, I guess you missed my question on another thread.

Do you actually believe, like Ted Breaux, that traditional absinthe had NO thujone in it?

Posted by: The Standard Deviant May 31 2007, 10:39 AM

I don't think he ever said that.

Posted by: Absomphe May 31 2007, 12:04 PM

What SD said.

Posted by: absinthist May 31 2007, 12:29 PM

Just taking thujon-free chemotype and the work is done. I have never heard that any traditional extrait d'absinthe contained NO thujon whatsoever, there seems to be some misleading assumption leaving a tail.

Posted by: traineraz May 31 2007, 03:56 PM

Where did Ted claim that any traditional absinthe had no thujone whatsoever?

Where, in fact, did he claim that Lucid has no thujone whatsoever?

Posted by: dr_ordinaire May 31 2007, 05:15 PM

"Where did Ted claim that any traditional absinthe had no thujone whatsoever?"

Where? Here, in the Lucid website's FAQ:

"Does Lucid contain thujone?

Lucid has been tested and it meets US and EU standards for content. It is worth noting that using modern equipment, T.A. Breaux, the distiller of Lucid, has analyzed dozens of bottles of traditional, high-quality vintage Absinthe from the Belle Époque period and has determined that quality Absinthe that was properly made typically did not have any significant thujone content- even 100 years ago."

"Where, in fact, did he claim that Lucid has no thujone whatsoever?"

C'mon, Trainer, you are not that dumb... By stating that Lucid can be sold in the USA, Ted is admitting that it has no thujone. Otherwise it would be banned. The reason he can sell it in the US is because it is NOT absinthe. It's Absente for those who think they know about absinthe.

Posted by: sixela May 31 2007, 06:44 PM

QUOTE(dr_ordinaire @ May 31 2007, 07:15 PM) *

By stating that Lucid can be sold in the USA, Ted is admitting that it has no chop.gif.

No. He's admitting it passes the US test for chop.gif content. There's a difference and you keep ignoring it, which makes you quite the ass (British English spelling).

But by now we're used to that.

Posted by: traineraz May 31 2007, 08:43 PM

frusty.gif What Sixer said.

Posted by: dr_ordinaire May 31 2007, 09:53 PM

QUOTE(sixela @ May 31 2007, 12:44 PM) *

QUOTE(dr_ordinaire @ May 31 2007, 07:15 PM) *

By stating that Lucid can be sold in the USA, Ted is admitting that it has no thujone.

No. He's admitting it passes the US test for thujone content. There's a difference and you keep ignoring it, which makes you quite the ass (British English spelling).

But by now we're used to that.


Maybe you can enlighten my ignorance, Sixela, because I cannot see the difference.

The only way Lucid can pass the US test for thujone content is by having no detectable levels of thujone.

Put it any way you want, the fact is that, for all practical purposes, Lucid has NO thujone.

Now, it may be argued whether a drink with those characteristics is absinthe or not, but that is a different thing.

Posted by: Head_prosthesis May 31 2007, 10:35 PM

There's an acceptable level of insect matter
in everything you eat. Likewise, an acceptable
amount of bullshit within each post Dr. O prescribes.

Posted by: sixela Jun 1 2007, 07:02 AM

There is not only an acceptable level of bullshit in Dr. O's posts. I think there's a minimum limit as well; in other words, a required level of bullshit.

Posted by: sixela Jun 1 2007, 07:07 AM

QUOTE(dr_ordinaire @ May 31 2007, 11:53 PM) *

Maybe you can enlighten my ignorance, Sixela, because I cannot see the difference.


That has more to do with what you want to see than with what's visible.

Well, read the different threads and you might be enlightened. Or not, because you don't wantto see the difference.

Once again: the FDA test isn't just any test that measures t-jone content accurately, and not even the test which produces the most accurate estimates these days.

It's a precise test protocol mandated by the FDA, using an antiquated test protocol (producing both false positives and negatives, not the least because it doesn't measure a numerical estimate of how much t-jone there is, but purports to simply judge the "presence" of t-jone).

The proper test (according to the FDA) does not use a well calibrated GLC analysis and determines whether the resulting estimate (which is, by the way, still an estimate) is 0 mg/l, 0.0 mg/l, 0.00 mg/l or 0 parts per million.

If it were using a more modern test protocol, I have no doubt the FDA would also give a precise limit for t-jone content just like the European rules do, and there's no way of knowing exactly what numerical value the FDA would come up with, although it wouldn't be zero - zero is something which simply does not exist in these matters, because one molecule of t-jone in a bottle is not zero molecules and because even far more toxic compounds (with extremely low lethal doses) don't have a limit that is set to zero when something like a GLC test is used for measuring the titrage.

Yes, the FDA position is, in these modern times, extremely silly, but that's the way it is. And that's because no one can be bothered to change it.

Hiram has posted a link to the exact description of the FDA test - I'm sure that if you want to be proven wrong you can find it wink.gif. But somehow, I'm not going to be holding my breath.


Posted by: dr_ordinaire Jun 1 2007, 07:21 AM

Yeah, sorry, Sixela.

Unlike you, I'm, not a chemist. I don't know what a "...antiquated test protocol (producing both false positives and negatives, not the least because it doesn't measure a numerical estimate of how much t-jone there is, but purports to simply judge the "presence" of t-jone).

I didn't know that:"...The proper test (according to the FDA) does not use a well calibrated GLC analysis and determines whether the resulting estimate (which is, by the way, still an estimate) is 0 mg/l, 0.0 mg/l, 0.00 mg/l or 0 parts per million."

If I were as knowleadgeable about chemistry as you are, I would know that:"...If it were using a more modern test protocol, I have no doubt the FDA would also give a precise limit for t-jone content just like the European rules do, and there's no way of knowing exactly what numerical value the FDA would come up with, although it wouldn't be zero - zero is something which simply does not exist in these matters, because one molecule of t-jone in a bottle is not zero molecules and because even far more toxic compounds (with extremely low lethal doses) don't have a limit that is set to zero when something like a GLC test is used for measuring the titrage.

OK, Sixela, since you are not a chemist or a scientist, and you have not the foggiest idea of the stuff that is posted under your name, you are the Forum equivalent of a condom.

Posted by: sixela Jun 1 2007, 07:37 AM

QUOTE(dr_ordinaire @ Jun 1 2007, 09:21 AM) *

OK, Sixela, since you are not a chemist or a scientist,


When you assume, you make an ass of you and me - but in this case, only of you. Somehow, I don't think you actually know one bit about either my education or even my professional career (and minor details like my score on organic chemistry exams, or how recently I worked with people in pharmaceutical research).

It's also ad hominem and beside the point, as you can find my sources with a modicum of research, and you'd have to cast doubts on the authority of the sources, not on mine. You'd better have some peer-reviewed articles of your own.

QUOTE
you are the Forum equivalent of a condom.

I'll take that as a compliment, given you usually start abusing only when you've lost an argument.

And there are far worse things to be than a sentient condom.

Posted by: dr_ordinaire Jun 1 2007, 07:57 AM

"It's also ad hominem and beside the point, as you can find my sources with a modicum of research, and you'd have to cast doubts on the authority of the sources, not on mine. You'd better have some peer-reviewed articles of your own."

Ad hominem my ass!

Where are your sources? That bullshiter (Ted, in case you haven't noticed it) has been bullshitting people with no critical thinking for years.

So name SOME sources.

Do I have to remind the Forum of the day when I asked for Ted's "peer reviewed" papers?.

Guess how many papers, peer-reviewed, Ted has?

Right. Zero. Nada. He may be a media personality, but as absinthe credibility, he has zero.

If that guy wants to make money out of absinthe newbies, that's his deal. Changing absinthe history, that's another matter.

Posted by: sixela Jun 1 2007, 10:01 AM

QUOTE(dr_ordinaire @ Jun 1 2007, 09:57 AM) *

Where are your sources?
Do I have to remind the Forum of the day when I asked for Ted's "peer reviewed" papers?

Do we have to remind you of the countless times peer-reviewed articles have been pointed out to you (to no avail)? I think someone quoted the most recent Emmert paper to you just this week, no?

By now you know exactly who has written what - you simply pretend not to know when it's convenient for you to do so.

By the way, these days GLC tests are common (given they're mandated by the EU), so I doubt a single test result for a given brand would be worth a peer reviewed article; this means that even if Veridian and Ted have done perfectly valid GLC testing for t-jone in Lucid, it's hardly going to be headline news, or even get published.

Testing absinthes for t-jone is now commonplace, and the world has moved on.

Only you haven't.

QUOTE

Guess how many papers, peer-reviewed, Ted has?

Right. Zero. Nada. He may be a media personality, but as absinthe credibility, he has zero.

We weren't quoting Ted. None of the papers on chop.gif.info is from Ted. Most of the papers are conveniently referenced on www.chop.gif.info, except for Emmert's latest paper.

You keep yammering about Ted, we don't. You shoot a hole in the side of a barn and then draw a bull's-eye around the bullet hole.

Posted by: Absomphe Jun 1 2007, 12:11 PM

QUOTE(sixela @ Jun 1 2007, 01:37 AM) *


And there are far worse things to be than a sentient condom.


That reminds me of that terrible old standard...

"Don't argue with that guy, he's a real pro."

"What kind of pro?"

"Why, a prophylactic, of course."

Posted by: Jaded Prol Jun 1 2007, 01:12 PM

The I Ching says "Even one small passion lurking in the heart has the power to obscure all reason." O's irrational hatred of Ted seems to prove the ancient Chinese dictum.

Posted by: Steyr850 Jun 1 2007, 01:44 PM

At least O's heart is in the right place. So much time and effort spent just to keep us from drinking fake absinthe. Thanks for saving us from ourselves.

Posted by: Artemis Jun 1 2007, 09:26 PM

QUOTE
Hi, Arty, I guess you missed my question on another thread.

Do you actually believe, like Ted Breaux, that traditional absinthe had NO chop.gif in it?


I might have missed it, or seen it and ignored it, but I do remember responding to you in some thread, that Ted never SAID that. What he BELIEVES, there's no way for me to know. What I myself believe is that it doesn't make a damn bit of difference whether any absinthe contains or ever contained chop.gif.

Posted by: dr_ordinaire Jun 2 2007, 12:50 AM

There must be some correlation between drinking absinthe and the onset of Alzheimer's, because in this Forum people seem to be "memory challenged" and then they get their panties all bunched up when I remind them of "REAL reality".

So, let's try a little memory test. How many people remember when Absente appeared? Good. Some of you still have two neurons connected.

Now, how many people remember WHY everybody in this Forum laughed at Absente? Nope, it was not the taste. (The taste was crap, but that was not the issue.)

It was because it had no thujone. Yep. The Forumites would evaluate crappy absinthe, but everybody here refused to consider Absente absinthe at all. What is totally acceptable with Lucid, was totally unacceptable then.

At least SOME of you have to remember that.


About my "irrational hatred" of Ted, I would like to remind you that I'm not quoting his enemies, I'm quoting him. If his story has changed over and over through the years, that is not my problem.

And, Arty, to answer you:

"I might have missed it, or seen it and ignored it, but I do remember responding to you in some thread, that Ted never SAID that. What he BELIEVES, there's no way for me to know. "

Go to the Lucid site and see for yourself what Ted believes.

Posted by: Head_prosthesis Jun 2 2007, 01:10 AM

QUOTE
It was because it had no thujone. Yep.


In this passage Dr. O is substituting "thujone"
where "Roman Wormwood" should be used.

No surprise there. As he's been known
to mistake Grand Wormwood for Roman
Wormwood.

Never one to let the past be the past.

Posted by: Head_prosthesis Jun 2 2007, 01:31 AM

Note: Absente is a pastis and not an absinthe.
For more reasons than the "threat" of thujone.

An Old Timer Forumite (Abisntheur) reviews Absente:
http://www.feeverte.net/guide/country/france/absente_pastis/

Posted by: Kirk Jun 2 2007, 01:48 AM

QUOTE
There must be some correlation between drinking absinthe and the onset of Alzheimer's,

I was gonna kick yer ass for that, but I forgot why.
I'm sure I owe you one though.

Posted by: dr_ordinaire Jun 2 2007, 02:00 AM

QUOTE(Head_prosthesis @ Jun 1 2007, 07:31 PM) *

Note: Absente is a pastis and not an absinthe.
For more reasons than the "threat" of chop.gif.

An Old Timer Forumite (Abisntheur) reviews Absente:
http://www.feeverte.net/guide/country/france/absente_pastis/


Note: Lucid is also a pastis.

Only a lot more expensive...

Posted by: Head_prosthesis Jun 2 2007, 02:19 AM

I'll be awaiting your review for the guide.


Posted by: dr_ordinaire Jun 2 2007, 02:48 AM

I'm not paying 70 bucks for pastis, thank you very much.

I'll leave that for the more enlightened members of the Forum.

So... who's jumping on the grenade? You? Kallisti? Sixela?

Posted by: Head_prosthesis Jun 2 2007, 03:00 AM

I'm sure I'll get mine probono.
Payola if you will.
Obviously.

Posted by: dr_ordinaire Jun 2 2007, 03:13 AM

One interesting thing, and different this time, is that so few people opposed me.

Usually, when I said something against one of the Sacred Cows (Ted, Arty, Sixela) I got shit from every quadrant.

This time, only the Sacred Cows themselves came on their own defense.

Could it be that the vast majority of the Absinthe community has finally realized, with this Lucid stunt, that Ted is full of shit?


Posted by: Head_prosthesis Jun 2 2007, 03:44 AM

The only thing I'm sure of is how bored you are.

Posted by: dr_ordinaire Jun 2 2007, 05:30 AM

Bored? No way...

Unlike you, I don't spend here all the time.

As a matter of fact, I was away for some four months before coming back and discovering that Traditional Absinthe had NO thujone.

Wow!


Posted by: sixela Jun 2 2007, 07:41 AM

QUOTE(dr_ordinaire @ Jun 2 2007, 05:13 AM) *

Could it be that the vast majority of the Absinthe community has finally realized, with this Lucid stunt, that Ted is full of shit?


So, if you get comments you must be on to something, and if you don't then everybody must be agreeing?

Could it be that we aren't always in the mood for yanking your chain?

Posted by: Kirk Jun 2 2007, 12:24 PM

I ignore all but your initial statement
which I usually laugh my ass off at.

Posted by: Artemis Jun 2 2007, 02:39 PM

It's good to have a joust at the sacred cows, and I'm honored to be included in the herd, but I said nothing in defense of myself, as there's nothing to defend. Dr. O has always twisted words to put things into people's mouths that they never said. The only reason I ever got into the chop.gif debate was to help demonstrate that chop.gif is a non-issue. Enough people should have tried absinthe for themselves by now to have demonstrated that for themselves in personal way that's beyond debate.

I will not visit the Lucid website because I'm not interested in it. What is said there is not necessarily what Ted believes, it's what is necessary to sell that product. From the beginning, it has been possible to obtain absinthe that is absinthe, and that is all it claims to be, with that one word, and it didn't take me long to validate that word for myself, using only lips and tongue. As for Ted, he's still alright with me.

Posted by: Head_prosthesis Jun 2 2007, 03:11 PM

QUOTE(dr_ordinaire @ Jun 1 2007, 11:30 PM) *

Bored? No way...

Unlike you, I don't spend here all the time.



You forget your own claims so soon.
I spend here all the time as it my solemn
doody to supress the truth. To change
the course of history and promote the will
of the almighty Ted. Praise to be his name.

DOWN THE GULLET, UP THE PROPHET!


Posted by: sixela Jun 2 2007, 03:20 PM

QUOTE(Head_prosthesis @ Jun 2 2007, 05:11 PM) *

I spend here all the time as it my solemn
doody to supress the truth.


And to change words in Dr. O's posts to something else. Censorship!


Posted by: Head_prosthesis Jun 2 2007, 03:24 PM

And I'm not a big watcher of television.
It's beyond me, that t.v.
I just don't GET IT.

Posted by: Absinthesizer Jun 2 2007, 06:06 PM

QUOTE(dr_ordinaire @ Jun 1 2007, 10:13 PM) *
Could it be that the vast majority of the Absinthe community has finally realized, with this Lucid stunt, that Ted is full of shit?
Actually, I finally realized that someone who claims he cannot tell the difference between the two phrases "no thüjone" and "no significant thüjone" is not worth replying to. But here I am, doing it anyway. frusty.gif

Call "significant" a weasel word. (It is.) Call it a deliberate attempt to mislead people. (It could be, though it doesn't sound like it to me in this context.) But don't claim that TAB said something that he very clearly did not say.

Posted by: Oxygenee Jun 3 2007, 05:11 PM

QUOTE(Grim @ May 11 2007, 01:03 PM) *

A while back I was browsin' through Boerhaave's Elementa Chemiae.


As one does.

Posted by: Oxygenee Jun 3 2007, 05:25 PM

QUOTE(Grim @ May 11 2007, 01:03 PM) *

A while back I was browsin' through Boerhaave's Elementa Chemiae.


Oh that Elementa Chemiae...

Posted by: Oxygenee Jun 3 2007, 05:28 PM

QUOTE(Grim @ May 11 2007, 01:03 PM) *

A while back I was browsin' through Boerhaave's Elementa Chemiae.


That's some good browsin' y'all got there...

Posted by: Oxygenee Jun 3 2007, 05:32 PM

QUOTE(Grim @ May 11 2007, 01:03 PM) *

A while back I was browsin' through Boerhaave's Elementa Chemiae.


I just caught the podcast.

Posted by: absinthist Jun 3 2007, 08:09 PM



QUOTE
Note: Lucid is also a pastis.


It cannot be for its colour, abv, and presumably some ingredients not involved. And pastis, if al'ancienne or d'antan does have thujon but much less than the allowable limit per absinthes.


Posted by: Le Gimp Jun 6 2007, 08:16 PM

Ah yes, life goes on.

Posted by: Provenance Jun 6 2007, 09:42 PM

For those who don't have one.

Posted by: louched liver Jun 6 2007, 10:20 PM

Or want one.

Posted by: absinthist Jun 7 2007, 09:50 AM

La vie est faite de miel et d'absinthe; et plus d'absinthe pour toujours.

Posted by: dr_ordinaire Jun 12 2007, 08:19 AM

'OK, so it has now been PROVED that original absinthe had between 1 and 10 mg/Kg of thujone.

What am I going to do with this information? Nothing. Except remembering it. Saving it.

So next time Ted presents IRREFUTABLE proof that original absinthe had between 10 and 35 mg/Kg of thujone (so he can sell Amers), I'll just ... tell you that I disagree...

Posted by: absinthist Jun 12 2007, 08:59 AM

Nothing has been proved so far.

Posted by: dr_ordinaire Jun 12 2007, 09:25 AM

Have to agree with you, Absinthist.

That the U.S. F.D.A and D.E.A. or whatever set an abstract limit on thujone means absolutely nothing on what absinthe originally had.

Some people here understand the new relaxed limits as something having to do with traditional absinthe.

NO.

We do not trust the CADs (Commercial Absinthe Distillers) or their groupies as far as the content of thujone in traditional absinthe. They want to sell absinthe. Not in the past, but now.

We want the truth.

Posted by: absinthist Jun 12 2007, 09:37 AM

Maximum and minimum thujon concentrations are just EU's imbecile inventions and have nothing to do with reality, just as their definitions for various spirits found in COUNCIL REGULATION (EEC) No 1576/89. Not counting, the irritating control of the pigments I am using (some of them them have been already banned in Europe ane nothing seems as if the ban would be lifted).

Absinthe fitting their line is perfectly makeable but absinthes of the heyday is another story and here the research is being continued so nothing can be said that is definite. Even today using Pernod fils recipe you can make a copy of that extrait that will be thujon-free or really low, or on the other hand, much higher than its predecessor could be at maximum. Still, it is part of marketing and the clientele it is aimed at.

I would not trust fda, either, people who have never had absinthe in their whole life, shall never be allowed to give opinions about.

Posted by: Absomphe Jun 12 2007, 12:24 PM

QUOTE(dr_ordinaire @ Jun 12 2007, 03:25 AM) *

We want the truth.


Well, you do, anyway.

I think the rest of just like to indulge your obsession. wink.gif

Posted by: absinthist Jun 12 2007, 12:40 PM

And the truth is out there wink.gif . I am wondering why X-files has not released any series dealing with absinthe at all? At least we could see professeurs de FDA at work hand in hand with Scully and Mulder...

Posted by: louched liver Jun 12 2007, 01:11 PM

Laws that deal w/reality?

Ha!

Laws are political
instruments.


I'd like to work my hand
on Scully.

Posted by: absinthist Jun 12 2007, 01:48 PM

Exactly, politics has nothing to do with real world. Whereas coming back to the truth Dr O. is demanding.

Below are 4 thujon concentrations of Absinthe Suisse de Neuchatel re-created for the purpose of science in various labs:

1# 8.2 mg/l
2# 2.2 mg/l
3# 1.4 mg/l
4# 4.5 mg/l

does this suggest that any absinthe made according to Neuchatel recipe will be in the range 1.4-8.2 mg/l? Of course, not.

Posted by: Le Gimp Jun 12 2007, 05:15 PM

No, but it does say roughly 63% of absinthe made by that recipe and process will.

It also says that 93% of all absinthe made by same will be between <1mg/L and 13.21mg/L (three standard deviations plus mean).

6sigma would be around 23.1mg/L

So we can conclude that absinthe produced by this method and process will have less than 23.1mg/L.

Albeit it is a small sample and the numbers aren't exact.

50 Samples would probably be necessary to really nail down the process and recipe given that the samples were truly representative of the variations in herb quality and consistent operation of the apperatus.

Posted by: absinthist Jun 12 2007, 05:40 PM

Glad you got my point. Obviously, I have given just 5 to suggest that it is a long way to state that Neuchatel shall be at this and that.

If all samples prove to be made with exactly the same wormwood (I mean 50 different labs are following the same process without the slightest modification, neither in preparation of the herbs, nor maceration-distillation-assemblage-colouration whatever is required) we could approximately get them at circa 20.04-22.08 mg/l, assuming of course in the wormwood oil thujon is between 67%-70% as it is in case of high quality plants.

Posted by: louched liver Jun 12 2007, 09:00 PM

Can't we just drink it?

Posted by: Jaded Prol Jun 12 2007, 09:09 PM

That's the bottom line!


QUOTE
We want the truth.


I want good absinthe and the "truth" is self-evident in the drinking.

Posted by: absinthist Jun 12 2007, 09:15 PM

QUOTE(louched liver @ Jun 12 2007, 02:00 PM) *

Can't we just drink it?


Which sample? harhar.gif Nah, seriously, none of the five quoted proved to be detrimental to human health and not recommended for consumption, so abs-cheers.gif

Posted by: louched liver Jun 12 2007, 09:17 PM

Who the fuck ever
said I was human?

Posted by: absinthist Jun 12 2007, 09:23 PM

If you are an animal they tolerate absinthe well as well, some of them wink.gif

Posted by: louched liver Jun 12 2007, 09:55 PM

I have a proven
track record as
far as consuming
absinthe.

Posted by: Icarus Jun 13 2007, 05:06 AM

He is not animal,
He is not Human,
He is but part human.

He is.
Undoubtedly, Liver.
A louched Liver to be exact.


Posted by: crosby Jun 13 2007, 07:05 AM

Louched Liver was my friend. Dr. O is no Louched Liver.

Posted by: absinthist Jun 13 2007, 08:00 AM

Thanks for clarification. Now, I see.

Posted by: speedle Jun 16 2007, 10:05 PM

QUOTE(louched liver @ Jun 12 2007, 08:11 AM) *
Laws that deal w/reality?

Ha!



I'd like to work my hand
on Scully.


You're sure you know which is which, right?

Posted by: louched liver Jun 16 2007, 10:20 PM

I don't bother to
differentiate.

Posted by: speedle Jun 17 2007, 12:01 AM

Clearly.

Posted by: louched liver Jun 17 2007, 04:14 AM

Not to me.

Posted by: speedle Jun 17 2007, 05:19 AM

Sorry, Charlie.

Posted by: louched liver Jun 17 2007, 01:55 PM

Why, I'm not.

Multiple realities=
multiple fun.

Posted by: Jaded Prol Jun 17 2007, 02:31 PM

Reality needs all the help it can get --

especially in the South!

Posted by: louched liver Jun 17 2007, 03:29 PM

Some xit's too
real down here.


Like the fact
it's the South.

Posted by: Nymphadora Jun 17 2007, 05:54 PM

There are a few things I actually like about the South.

Complete strangers smile and wave at you as you pass them in your car.

Strangers look you in the eye and say, "Howdy, how ya doin?"

Strangers open my door for me.

Yeah, we'll lynch a few and make 'em ride in the back of the bus. But darn it, we're friendly while we're at it.

Posted by: absinthist Jun 17 2007, 06:26 PM

Konquer we must for our kause is just

Posted by: Absomphe Jun 17 2007, 11:36 PM

You missed the third 'K', buddy.

Posted by: louched liver Jun 18 2007, 01:02 AM

YikesX2.

Posted by: absinthist Jun 18 2007, 07:58 AM

QUOTE(Absomphe @ Jun 17 2007, 04:36 PM) *

You missed the third 'K', buddy.


'Twas intentional, but no wonder you have spotted, friend abs-cheers.gif

Posted by: sixela Jun 18 2007, 11:59 AM

QUOTE(Nymphadora @ Jun 17 2007, 07:54 PM) *

Strangers look you in the eye

I didn't know you were going for the Moshe Dayan look.

Posted by: absinthist Jun 18 2007, 01:20 PM

One-eyed monster=Cyclops (or I should say Kyklops biggrin.gif )

Posted by: Jaded Prol Jun 18 2007, 01:31 PM

You needn't . . .

Posted by: Absomphe Jun 18 2007, 01:53 PM

Just don't call Moshe Dyan a Kikelops, or my friends from the southern MOSAD will lynch you.

Posted by: absinthist Jun 18 2007, 02:05 PM

KIKE lops biggrin.gif Who would suspect Mossad to conspire in the good olde Confederate States of America???

Posted by: Absomphe Jun 18 2007, 02:08 PM

They're quite easy to tell apart, however.

They lynch with Uzis.

Posted by: absinthist Jun 18 2007, 02:16 PM

Like that one?

http://img105.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01344faw2.jpg

Posted by: Provenance Jun 18 2007, 02:57 PM

QUOTE(Nymphadora @ Jun 17 2007, 10:54 AM) *

Strangers open my door for me.

I used to get arrested for stuff like that.

Posted by: absinthist Jun 18 2007, 02:58 PM

shock.gif Where do you live?

Posted by: Provenance Jun 18 2007, 03:03 PM

In strangers' houses most of the time.

Posted by: Absomphe Jun 18 2007, 03:18 PM

I'll bet you hide their canes and tin cups, just for spite.


Posted by: Provenance Jun 18 2007, 03:23 PM

No, but some girls misunderstand when I open their door for them and offer the traditional greeting of Saran Wrap and cool whip.

Posted by: Absomphe Jun 18 2007, 03:26 PM

I thought everybody knew that's what real Jehovah's Witnesses use as bait.

Posted by: Provenance Jun 18 2007, 03:27 PM

I prefer no witnesses.

Posted by: Absomphe Jun 18 2007, 03:31 PM

Then you ought to remember to park that telltale van a little farther down the street.

Posted by: Provenance Jun 18 2007, 03:34 PM

The one marked Free Candy?

Posted by: Nymphadora Jun 18 2007, 09:44 PM

Sixela: Girls with eyepatches are sexy. Don't you remember Barbarella, 'pretty, pretty'?

Posted by: rjordan Jun 18 2007, 09:48 PM

Um, no.

Girls should look like this
hula-1.gif bet.gif mrsp.gif fairy.gif queen_vic.gif queen_vic2.gif or vagina.gif

gun thug.gif

Posted by: sixela Jun 18 2007, 09:51 PM

QUOTE(Nymphadora @ Jun 18 2007, 11:44 PM) *

Sixela: Girls with eyepatches are sexy. Don't you remember Barbarella, 'pretty, pretty'?


I'm not old enough to remember Barbarella /begin{sarcasm}evill.gif/end{sarcasm}.

Apart from that, I'm entirely agnostic about the matter as long as any eyepatch doesn't cover a functional eye.

With the exception of girls covering their observing eye to preserve night vision and to allow observation through a monocular eyepiece with both eyes open.

These are DEFINITELY sexy, even though you usually can't see them at all in suitably dark skies.

Posted by: rjordan Jun 18 2007, 09:55 PM

Yes, I suppose girls are a religion. So agnosticism would be appropriate.

(btw, this is my 700th post....not that I'm counting or anything. 700 nuggets of wisdom, dumbdom, or whatever else I felt like shooting into cyberspace. Yeah me!)

gun thug.gif

Posted by: Nymphadora Jun 18 2007, 10:02 PM

Sixela: Barbarella was made before I was born, Mr. Smarty Pants!

I tried to upload a picture of Anita Pallenburg as the eye patched Black Queen, but I couldn't. Hrumph!

Posted by: sixela Jun 18 2007, 10:25 PM

QUOTE(Nymphadora @ Jun 19 2007, 12:02 AM) *

Sixela: Barbarella was made before I was born, Mr. Smarty Pants!


Sorry - I forgot you were from 'bama. Let me add some sarcasm tags.


Posted by: sixela Jun 18 2007, 10:28 PM

No need to upload anything.

I'm just figuring out if Emma Peel would look better with an eyepatch or not, and then I'll know.

Posted by: Absomphe Jun 18 2007, 10:57 PM

QUOTE(rjordan @ Jun 18 2007, 03:48 PM) *

Um, no.

Girls should look like this
hula-1.gif bet.gif mrsp.gif fairy.gif queen_vic.gif queen_vic2.gif or vagina.gif

gun thug.gif


An emphatic um, no to five and six.

Posted by: rjordan Jun 18 2007, 10:59 PM

Awww, what do you know. Your old and crotchety. I thought that's how they looked back in your day.

gun thug.gif

Posted by: sixela Jun 18 2007, 11:10 PM

QUOTE(Absomphe @ Jun 19 2007, 12:57 AM) *

An emphatic um, no to five and six.

Number Six doesn't take no for an answer.

IPB Image

Posted by: Nymphadora Jun 18 2007, 11:13 PM

I concur (only because she is a blonde).

Posted by: rjordan Jun 18 2007, 11:15 PM

Look at her eyebrows.

gun thug.gif

Posted by: Nymphadora Jun 18 2007, 11:16 PM

I said it once, I'll say it again. EYEBROW PENCIL!!!!!!

Posted by: rjordan Jun 18 2007, 11:18 PM

Yeah, that's what EYE use.

gun thug.gif

Posted by: sixela Jun 18 2007, 11:21 PM

They'll never learn, will they, Nymph?

You'd think a man of the world would at least casually consult his documentation (aka the February 2007 edition of Playboy magazine) before putting his foot in his mouth in a post about Tricia Helfer.

But no...

Posted by: rjordan Jun 18 2007, 11:22 PM

Why, you use the eyebrow pencil too?

gun thug.gif

Posted by: sixela Jun 18 2007, 11:24 PM

PTFA - I'm Six.

Posted by: Absomphe Jun 18 2007, 11:30 PM

QUOTE(sixela @ Jun 18 2007, 05:10 PM) *


Number Six doesn't take no for an answer.

IPB Image


Unlike Patrick McGoohan's Prisoner, I'm sure she doesn't have to. chickawow.gif

Posted by: Absomphe Jun 18 2007, 11:33 PM

QUOTE(rjordan @ Jun 18 2007, 04:59 PM) *


I thought that's how they looked back in your day.



Um, no.

The rest of us were starving wraiths onacuz that bitch ate all the food.

Posted by: rjordan Jun 18 2007, 11:35 PM

But that was still BACK in your day?

gun thug.gif

Posted by: Nymphadora Jun 18 2007, 11:45 PM

The number six model does require a tune up and oil change every few hundred years.

And, oh, she has a few homocidal tendencies.

Posted by: Provenance Jul 14 2012, 04:57 AM

QUOTE(Admin @ Apr 30 2004, 12:00 AM) *
We have stated in the past that we cannot allow the discussion
of home distillation. We must now insist in more detail that
the . . . reviewing and adoration of any home distillation
product/experiment is STRICTLY PROHIBITED on FeeVerte.

Fuck that.

Besançon!

Posted by: Stroller Jul 14 2012, 05:25 AM

Viva la Besançon!

Posted by: Tibro Jul 14 2012, 09:45 AM

I like that when everyone finally reaches the point of understanding that talking about commercial absinthe is a losing endeavor there's still something more to be said to drive the point home.

Posted by: Jaded Prole Jul 14 2012, 10:30 AM

There are so many commercial absinthe names that it would be impossible to distinguish that any name isn't a commercial brand. Discussion of home distillation is another thing. I prefer the uncompromising brands.

Posted by: Bruno Rygseck Jul 14 2012, 08:50 PM

Home maceration is sufficient for me.

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