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> Social Security, what to do
Donnie Darko
post Feb 3 2005, 02:48 PM
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It's sad that Mr. Bush is not going to follow the plan for Social Security outlined by his own conservative ex-Treasury Secretary, Paul O'Neill. This is a brilliant editorial by Paul O'Neill, which nails the social security issue and proposes real reform, not the wall street give away Dubya proposed last night.
Who Wants to be a Millionaire?

Rather than approaching Social Security reform as an optimistic opportunity to do something great, Bush is resorting to selling it through fear, and turning the program into a clone of England's failed program.

Also, Mr. Bush did not mention in his SOTU address that only the first $90,000 of income is taxed by Social Security, and that the best way to prevent bankruptcy is merely to demand his rich buddies pay their fare share by taxing ALL income, rather than just the first $90K.

And all those people in Red are still pretending King George is looking out for their best interests...
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Artemis
post Feb 3 2005, 03:49 PM
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Hopefully O'Neill can spell "wants" ...

It's amazing how you Libs who claim you want to stick to the argument can't function without shit-for-brains liberal buzzwords such as "wall street give away".

Bush proposed that a whopping 4% of the money confiscated from us by the government be invested, in THE SAME instruments as proposed by O'Neill. O'Neill wants 100% of the money to go. Who's proposing the greatest risk? What's being given to Wall Street in either case?

It's good that O'Neill at least twice reminds us that the government has no money unless it takes it from us first. That ought to be drilled into the heads of first-graders until they puke.

A better solution is to leave me the hell alone. I can invest my own money, thank you. I was disgusted with most of Bush's speech, and that piddly 4% thing made me want to slap him silly - O'Neil's plan is better in every way, except it should be voluntary. Those who don't volunteer should get no government funds in that plan or any other.

Personally, I welcome the moment when I go over the limit for the year and I stop getting robbed for that disgraceful ponzi scheme. You would too, once you get the taste for it. It's easy to play robbing hood with someone else's money.


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SnakeHead
post Feb 3 2005, 04:11 PM
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QUOTE
The next dickwad who says, "It’s your money, not the government's money" is gonna get their ass kicked. Nine of the ten states that get the most federal fucking dollars and pay the least... can you guess? Go on, guess. That’s right, motherfucker, they're red states. And eight of the ten states that receive the least and pay the most? It’s too easy, asshole, they’re blue states. It’s not your money, assholes, it’s fucking our money. What was that Real American Value you were spouting a minute ago? Self reliance? Try this for self reliance: buy your own fucking stop signs, assholes.


Read the whole thing at http://www.fuckthesouth.com/


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Abe said god you must be puttin’ me on,
God said no,
Abe said WHAT?
God said you can do what you want Abe, but, next time you see me, you better run.
Abe said where you want this killin’ done?
God said out on highway 61.
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Jaded Prole
post Feb 3 2005, 04:37 PM
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To bad the twerp's ideologically driven plan would rather spend 1 to 2 trillion dollars to destroy our SSI through privitization scams then to shore up the trust fund and replace the money that has been taken from it by his and previous administrations. A simple 2% increase in funding (from any source) would keep SSI solvent through this century.

His lies about the system being "in crisis" are about as accurate as his claims of Iraqi WMDs and his plan to "fix" the system will be as effective as his plans to fix Afghanistan and Iraq.

Maybe W stands for his being a weapon of mass destruction.

If I really hated this country, I'd have to love Bush!


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Donnie Darko
post Feb 3 2005, 04:46 PM
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QUOTE (Artemis @ Feb 3 2005, 08:49 AM)
O'Neill wants 100% of the money to go.  Who's proposing the greatest risk?  What's being given to Wall Street in either case?



The difference is that O'Neill wants the money to go into broad index funds which would require very little management from brokers. Little management=little cost.

Bush's plan would put less money into something that would require more management by brokers. More management=greater cost. They already tried this in England, and the management costs were so expensive that 15 cents on every dollar went to administrative, which is far more expensive than our current version of SS in America. Some savings!
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Breson
post Feb 3 2005, 06:02 PM
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First of all, Bush is not the first one to admit that Social Security is broken most likely beyond any salvation. Clinton warned us as well, just chose not to make it a priority item. At least Bush has the balls to paint the target on his chest and actually do something.

QUOTE
Bush's plan would put less money into something that would require more management by brokers. More management=greater cost. They already tried this in England, and the management costs were so expensive that 15 cents on every dollar went to administrative, which is far more expensive than our current version of SS in America. Some savings!

First, he suggested that this money could be put into secure bond and low risk investment funds. These historically require very little internvention and low maintenance costs. You don't even have to participate in these accounts if you don't want to!

The government will not force you to put it into any particular investment scheme, just to disqualify unscrupulous or exceptionally risky ones (ie:small cap stocks, low rated bonds, etc.). This is a standard proven tactic for managing retirement accounts. I have never seen any fund that 15 cents of every dollar goes to admin. But would be interested to review the prospectus of one if you know of any.

QUOTE
His lies about the system being "in crisis" are about as accurate as his claims of Iraqi WMDs and his plan to "fix" the system will be as effective as his plans to fix Afghanistan and Iraq.

Please call Bill Clinton and let him know he is wrong as well. Regardless of your political idealology, IT IS BROKEN AND WILL FAIL. This has been harbingered for decades now. The math Bush used for retirees vs payors is not flawed. Can we bail it out?? Sure we can. Someone raise their hand to be the first in the 60% tax bracket. Or actually explain it to your kids as it will affect them the most.

QUOTE
Read the whole thing at http://www.fuckthesouth.com/

Is this a news piece??? Not hardly. It is pathetic poop.gif and most inaccurate.

Hate Bush all you want, numbers don't lie. This is not an agenda, it is the problem that exists that needs to be fixed. I have no clue what you think Bush benefits if more money goes to "Wall Street" or why you think it is even all going to "Wall Street".

I would rather not wait in line at the stadium to get into the game after it is already long over.

If you are smart you have already started some sort of personal account years ago rather than banking on Social Security to do anything for you.

The White House Web page

click here and go read, there will be a quiz later


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SnakeHead
post Feb 3 2005, 06:42 PM
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QUOTE
Is this a news piece??? Not hardly. It is pathetic  and most inaccurate.


Never called it news. But it is funny as hell and highly accurate. Check the statistics yourself. Better yet prove any assertion wrong. You seem awfully lazy when it comes to doing research or citing facts to back your arguments.

Feel its inaccurate? Prove it!


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Well god said to Abraham, kill me a son,
Abe said god you must be puttin’ me on,
God said no,
Abe said WHAT?
God said you can do what you want Abe, but, next time you see me, you better run.
Abe said where you want this killin’ done?
God said out on highway 61.
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Breson
post Feb 3 2005, 08:05 PM
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Before you call me lazy based on your disagreement with my political ideals, I suggest you study your sources rather than just sniping surface statements
Full Report on Taxes by State
The information includes all taxes including customs duties, taxes on alcohol and tobacco and corporate income taxes to name a few. Much of this money ultimately comes from business done countrywide. Also the total expenditures by state will be an interesting read as well.Open up the pdf file and read rather than skimming its surface.

Might want to study some of the other source as well

The crime statistics factor in crime at Colleges and Universities yet the population of these schools is not considered on the states cencus figures.


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Donnie Darko
post Feb 3 2005, 08:13 PM
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QUOTE (Breson @ Feb 3 2005, 11:02 AM)
I have no clue what you think Bush benefits if more money goes to "Wall Street" or why you think it is even all going to "Wall Street".

Gollee sarge, you mean to tell me you didn't know rich people could buy political influence? Surely none of Bush's campaign contributors were investment bankers...

Who do you think is going to manage the investing, somebody other than Wall Street? Do you think they'll do it for free? I don't think "all" of it is going to wall street, but they'll be getting billions more under Bush's plan.
They'd get billions under O'Neill's plan too, but it would be far cheaper for the government and for you, since it would require far less management and would pay out far more than Bush's plan or current SS.

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Breson
post Feb 3 2005, 09:05 PM
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You are right, it is a damned conspiracy!!!



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Pataphysician
post Feb 3 2005, 09:37 PM
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To be a conspiracy it would have to be secret, wouldn't it?


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SnakeHead
post Feb 3 2005, 09:40 PM
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QUOTE
Before you call me lazy based on your disagreement with my political ideals, I suggest you study your sources rather than just sniping surface statements


I didn’t call you lazy because of your political Ideals, but rather because you seemed, up until this point unwilling to research, and cite the research to buttress the ideas you put forth. You also, in another thread appeared to refuse to do research on a particular topic discussed on this very forum. Those things justified the label in my opinion.

For your ideals, I would label you misinformed, or perhaps, if you earn the title, even a stupid redneck. It is not surprising however, that more republicans tend to be misinformed on key topics these days with the poor sources of "news" like Faux news and Rush Limburger that they tend to swallow hook-line-and-sinker. There are some very interesting studies done on this very topic, that have been posted here in the past, if you care to do the research.

Amusingly, the report you cite above after a brief review appears to support the argument that you were labeling inaccurate. Looking at the "blue" states they almost all had a greater tax burden than federal expenditure, with NJ getting only 57cents back on every dollar they are taxed, for example.




--------------------
Well god said to Abraham, kill me a son,
Abe said god you must be puttin’ me on,
God said no,
Abe said WHAT?
God said you can do what you want Abe, but, next time you see me, you better run.
Abe said where you want this killin’ done?
God said out on highway 61.
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Jaded Prole
post Feb 3 2005, 09:42 PM
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QUOTE
You are right, it is a damned conspiracy!!!


We don't need no stinkin' cornspiracy here in
Dumbfuckistan, that's South Dumbfuckistant to you, bwa'


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Donnie Darko
post Feb 3 2005, 10:47 PM
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QUOTE (Breson @ Feb 3 2005, 01:05 PM)
The crime statistics factor in crime at Colleges and Universities yet the population of these schools is not considered on the states cencus figures.

I read this sentence six times and I can't make heads or tails of it, nor can I deduce its relevance to what we are discussing.
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Breson
post Feb 3 2005, 10:47 PM
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Snake,

You seem to take great comfort in thinking that everything you read on the interent is
1. True
2. Unbiased

You embrace every bit of liberal horse shite you read to be true and every conservative thought you encounter to be either false or with some degree of malice involved. It is a sad state. As I mentioned before, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

As far as the tax report, read it, it is skewed. Although there is much more poverty in the South currently for lack of industry, the results are not indicative of personal taxes paid only. Read the same report you referenced, not the snippet, read the whole thing.

But here is some interesting reading on federal aid by state you might ,or might not be interested to review. I am sure if you disagree with it it must be poop.gif . The Cencus Bureau must have an agenda as well Cencus Bureau Per Capita Federal Aid By State

The crime report you referenced (fuck the south)was taken from Jet magazine. They wouldn't possibly have anything against any republican states or agenda would they? Although the statistics do prove out that the South as a group has more murders per capita, the Jet numbers are inflated over the actual statistics. And before you claim their agenda is pro minority, tell where were they when Condaleeza Rice was being attacked, or NOW for that matter? No where to be found as they are first pro democratic and democratic agenda however lame it may be. The actual statistics can be found FBI Murder Rates By State

I happen to think Rush Limbaugh is an asshole and don't listen to him. I do have my eyes wide open and make my own judgements.

And before you rush to judge me based on a disagreement, you might be lucky to be as dumb as this "stupid redneck"

I am sure we will have very little to agree on


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