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> Modern Filteration vs Distillation, Which is better?
Perruche_verte
post Apr 18 2005, 02:41 AM
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I hope Kyle takes us up on that sample challenge. Send it out and let the chips fall where they may. Without tasting it, we can argue methods of manufacture until we turn blue and not reach any conclusion.


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Lord Stanley
post Apr 18 2005, 03:13 AM
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I'll try it but I won't buy it.
Czech absinth will not get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to shelling out money.
If it's good then so be it.


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Hiram
post Apr 18 2005, 03:35 AM
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I may be wrong, but I'm under the impression that he's saying this is how Sebor is currently produced.


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Ari
post Apr 18 2005, 03:45 AM
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That's the way I read it too.

I also get the feeling that "Herbal properties" = chop.gif and superior = higher concentrations of ball trippage.


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Lord Stanley
post Apr 18 2005, 03:45 AM
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Except that he hasn't really said anything about how anything's produced. Some new filtration method is better than distillation. I can hardly wait to hear the details.

Who needs distillation for ball trippage? You only need one herb, some rolling paper and a match.


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Selmac
post Apr 18 2005, 04:05 AM
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Hey Kyle: Elaboration, please........?


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Hiram
post Apr 18 2005, 06:51 AM
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I doubt Kyle will be back. He knows we've got his number.

I wonder how he managed to get a hold of Sebor (if he did) after Martin died.

Interesting reading.


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kyle
post Apr 18 2005, 07:40 AM
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It is nice to see that there are actually intelligent people in this discussion. As those who simply denounce this discussion, you are the modern day equivalent of those who lambasted Copernicus who said the Earth wasn’t the center of the Universe, or Darwin, who proposed Evolution as opposed to Creationism.
Good question: What are herbal properties?

This gets to the root of the discussion. Herbal properties are those compounds that are released into the alcohol and/or water during the maceration. And let it be made know once and for all that ALL ABSINTHE IS STARTS ITS LIFE AS A MACERATE: AS A MIXTURE OF ALCOHOL AND HERBS. So to regard un-distilled absinth as a macerate and macerated absinth and un-distilled it false. A look at vintage absinth recipes will prove this. What should not be considered an absinth is alcohol mixed with essential oils and artificial colours, this is just crap.

Herbal properties are chop.gif, chlorophyll (not present in the final product of the distillation and is thus added before bottling by mixing green herbs with the distillate - see historical recipes), flavours, oils, etc. (See the Scientific American art. about absinth chemical properties.)

We know that chlorophyll is filtered (separated) by distillation, what else is also separated and not passed to the distillate? Could the final product taste better or have medicinal qualities if these compounds were not removed?

Good point about distilled water, as pointed out distilled water is pure H20, and nothing else, but drinking only distilled water would lead to health problems because there are trace minerals in water that we need , Humans didn’t evolve these last million years drinking pure H20. If the macerate used in Vintage Absinth is distilled enough, one could filter out / separate the ethanol from the rest of the mixture and be left with pure ethanol would that be considered Absinth?

I propose that by use of mass spectrometry to detect the levels of all compounds present in a macerate before and after distillation would provide empirical evidence of what is being filtered/separated. In addition, by filtering the same macerate and comparing its results from mass spectrometry would show which absinth has more herbal compounds.

Filters used during Vintage absinth, based on historical recipes were made of felt cloth, which is in turn made of pressed animal hair, also asbestos was used. In light of these two very unappetizing methods, distillation was by far the best method at the time, but times change.
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Ari
post Apr 18 2005, 09:10 AM
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Ok more questions,
-What herbal compounds do you think are being removed by distilling that would make the absinthe taste better?

-Do these modern filters also remove the things in absinth that makes it taste bad?

-How many people do you think drink absinthe for medicinal properties?

-And the most important question, would these new fangled absinths pass the taste test? (Obviously to be answered at a later date, unless samples are available now).


On a side, both Copernicus and Darwin were wrong when it came to the details of their respective theories, and also spent time searching for evidence so they wouldn't appear completely crazy. I wouldn't compare yourself to them yet.


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BigMike
post Apr 18 2005, 09:25 AM
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Ok I need someone who can supply me with some crude oil and one of these miracle filters. I'm fed up of paying for petrol (gasoline for the yanks)!


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Jaded Prole
post Apr 18 2005, 10:05 AM
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QUOTE
If the macerate used in Vintage Absinth is distilled enough, one could filter out / separate the ethanol from the rest of the mixture and be left with pure ethanol

Untrue. Without using a toxic "dryer" ditillation cannot get beyond about 98% ehtanol but it would still be absinthe.

More herbal content would not necessarily make absinthe better and may make it undrinkable, especially if the negative parts of wormwood are present and filtration alone cannot remove them, at least thus far.

Macererate may make "absinth" but it does not equal absinthe. Nevertheless, put your discovery to the test and, in the name of science, subject it to peer review.


By the way -- the question of whether this is Sebor was never answered. Is it or does your new concoction have a name?


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Kirk
post Apr 18 2005, 02:06 PM
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QUOTE (kyle @ Apr 18 2005, 03:40 AM)
you are the modern day equivalent of those who lambasted Copernicus who said the Earth wasn’t the center of the Universe, or Darwin, who proposed Evolution as opposed to Creationism.


You are comparing yourself to Darwin? That's like comparing Sebor to Jade.


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kyle
post Apr 18 2005, 02:29 PM
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Why would the Frankenstien absinth called Jade be elevated? No sees it for the over marketed farce that it is? No one has questioned the effects of age on detection of organic compounds claimed to be found and used to resurrect vintage absinth from hundred year old bottles? Everybody is obvivious to the fact that compounds breakdown over time thus a test of real vintage absinth would not reveal the levels of the actual ingredients when made?

I feel relieved that I am not in the same category as the naked emperor or those blinded by the spin, did you all also believe Sadam has WMD? Based on your blind faith in unfounded "facts" it would seems so.
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Grim
post Apr 18 2005, 02:40 PM
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Alcohols to aldehydes and ketones, aldehydes to acids, acids to esters. Compounds in a closed bottle of vintage absinthe don't appear and disappear at random. It's not spooky action that inferences can and are guided by physical data and a little proven science, Copernicus.


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Grim
post Apr 18 2005, 02:45 PM
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Two points you need to consider, Kyle. Nearly every historical reference, and those at present that guide the extraction of volatile oils in other fields recognize that there are methods to avoid that destructiveness of distillation that you initially mentioned. Duplais, de Brevans, Fritsch, Bedel, they all cite the benefits of utilizing a "Bain-Marie" and also extol the benefits of steam distillation. These methods can and do produce distillates that do not carry an empyreumatic or burnt character.

Plus, you completely avoided my question about distillation in vacuo...


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