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> Don Walsh
sixela
post Nov 12 2007, 12:45 AM
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QUOTE(eric @ Aug 22 2007, 02:53 AM) *

Thanks for finding that one Bob.

I think it provides interesting background reading for my artificial "colour" thread.


I see you've joined the imperial forces and have had your spelling brainwashing.



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The Standard Deviant
post Nov 12 2007, 01:40 AM
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traineraz
post Nov 13 2007, 05:06 PM
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QUOTE(jonathan_carfax @ Nov 10 2007, 11:22 PM) *
Unfortunately no slinky Thai doms in cat suits strutting around the house this time blink.gif

I didn't know Don was running a brothel for furries. blink.gif


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. . . and don't forget to read the FAQ and check out the Absinthe Buyer's Guide for brand reviews and distributor links!
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dr_ordinaire
post Dec 6 2007, 04:31 AM
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QUOTE(justabob @ Nov 1 2006, 11:09 PM) *

QUOTE(Artemis @ Nov 1 2006, 08:03 PM) *

Ted has indeed been remarkably consistent from day one - I've been saying that for years.


Regardless of what one thinks of the man or his absinthe, the above statement is most certainly true.


Oh, please. Only those who have not been paying ANY attention for the last seven years or more, can say that.

Let me quote what I posted on the subject years ago.

A little historical data and then I yield the podium to the Forum experts.

Chemists may have had problems measuring thujone', but nobody can seriously say that they couldn't measure the volume of essential oil extracted from an herb. Pernod tells us that their finished absinthe had 150 ppm of essential oil of wormwood. How much thoojone is that?

As per TABREAUX, June 2000:

"FWIW according to Sacco and Cialva (1988), oil of Artemisia absinthium typically is comprised (w/w) of 59.9% alpha and 2.3% beta, which equals 62.2% total. "

So it's 150ppm x .62 = 93 ppm (or mg/Kg)


93 mg/Kg coincides nicely with what Don Walsh (Ted's distiller) said in 2000:

"The EU allows absinthe of commerce to contain up to 10 mg/Kg -- equivalent to parts per million -- which is mild compared to the estimated 60-90 mg/Kg of premium Belle Epoch absinthes. "


This coincides also with what Ted had found about levels of thoojone in vintage absinthes, over many years of research and several analyses:

On June 5, 2000, TABREAUX said:

"Using every bit of information I've processed over the past seven years, my calculations indicate that quality original Pontarlier labels contained anywhere from 50-100mg/kg total thoojone. "

http://www.feeverte.net/archive/messages/16/138.html

Since they were making a faithful reproduction of Pernod, what levels of thoojone could we expect in Jade? Lets see what Don revealed on June 5, 2000:

"Yes, pre-ban Pernod was probably close to 100 mg/Kg. As we are preparing to market a (non-EU compliant) authentic recreation of Pernod, and as we have the original pre-ban products to comapre it to, our product will be in the 90 mg/Kg class."

http://www.feeverte.net/archive/messages/16/138.html

Of course they put 90mg/Kg, since TABREAUX declared in June 18, 2000

"Granted, a product with little thoojone is generally representative of a poorly crafted, non-authentic product,"


http://www.feeverte.net/archive/messages/16/42.html

But now, Feb. 8, 2004, Ted thinks different:

"If the concentrate is a properly distilled product, it will contain only a very tiny concentration of , and certainly nowhere near 100 mg/kg!! "


Excuse me? Jade's Authentic Pernod Absinthe, in 2000, had 90mg/kg of thoojone' but Jade's Authentic Pernod Absinthe, in 2004, has next to none. Will the authentic Authentic Pernod Absinthe please stand up? They cannot BOTH be authentic, you know.

Could it be that Ted is so horrendously incompetent as a researcher and a chemist that he spent 7 years researching and analysing vintage absinthes and only could come up with results that are wrong by a factor of TWENTY!

No way. Ted is a very competent chemist. And the numbers he posted on June 5, 2000 (50-100 mg/Kg) are the REAL numbers for thoojone' in vintage absinthe.

Don mentioned 90mg/Kg in Jade, not because he wanted to lure the "get-me-high" crowd, but because 90mg/Kg is what you get WHEN YOU MAKE AUTHENTIC ABSINTHE. Not a good or bad number, just what it is.

Were they bullshiting us in 2000 or are they bullshitting us now?

So what has actually changed in the last four years: the chemical composicion of vintage absinthe…or Jade's marketing plans?

< 10 mg/Kg = European Market Open > 10 mg/Kg = European Market Closed

You have to reach your own conclusions. Phil's indignation, though poorly expressed, is valid. This is an historical travesty. They are trying to sell us Premium Absente as Authentic Absinthe.

The history and the very essence of absinthe are being changed under our very noses.

Anyway, let's finish this post with a funny note. According to Ted on June 5, 2000, those who buy the new "thoojone-free" Jade looking for secondaries are shit-out-of-luck, because Ted thinks that:

"I do agree that I feel that thoojone is not the only player in the secondary effects, although I'm convinced it plays an important role. "



A little historical data and then I yield the podium to the Forum experts.

Chemists may have had problems measuring thujone', but nobody can seriously say that they couldn't measure the volume of essential oil extracted from an herb. Pernod tells us that their finished absinthe had 150ppm of essential oil of wormwood. How much thujone' is that?

As per TABREAUX, June 2000:

"FWIW according to Sacco and Cialva (1988), oil of Artemisia absinthium typically is comprised (w/w) of 59.9% alpha and 2.3% beta, which equals 62.2% total. "

So it's 150ppm x .62 = 93 ppm (or mg/Kg)


93 mg/Kg coincides nicely with what Don Walsh (Ted's distiller) said in 2000:

"The EU allows absinthe of commerce to contain up to 10 mg/Kg -- equivalent to parts per million -- which is mild compared to the estimated 60-90 mg/Kg of premium Belle Epoch absinthes. "


This coincides also with what Ted had found about levels of thujone in vintage absinthes, over many years of research and several analyses:

On June 5, 2000, TABREAUX said:

"Using every bit of information I've processed over the past seven years, my calculations indicate that quality original Pontarlier labels contained anywhere from 50-100mg/kg total thujone. "

http://www.feeverte.net/archive/messages/16/138.html

Since they were making a faithful reproduction of Pernod, what levels of thujone could we expect in Jade? Lets see what Don revealed on June 5, 2000

"Yes, pre-ban Pernod was probably close to 100 mg/Kg. As we are preparing to market a (non-EU compliant) authentic recreation of Pernod, and as we have the original pre-ban products to comapre it to, our product will be in the 90 mg/Kg class."

http://www.feeverte.net/archive/messages/16/138.html

Of course they put 90mg/Kg, since TABREAUX declared in June 18, 2000

"Granted, a product with little thujone is generally representative of a poorly crafted, non-authentic product,"


http://www.feeverte.net/archive/messages/16/42.html


But now, Feb. 8, 2004, Ted thinks different:

"If the concentrate is a properly distilled product, it will contain only a very tiny concentration of , and certainly nowhere near 100 mg/kg!! "


Excuse me? Jade's Authentic Absinthe, in 2000, had 90mg/kg of thujone'. Jade's Authentic Absinthe, in 2004, has next to none. Will the authentic Authentic Absinthe please stand up? They cannot BOTH be authentic, you know.

Could it be that Ted is so horrendously incompetent as a researcher and a chemist that he spent 7 years researching and analysing vintage absinthes and only could come up with results that are wrong by a factor of TWENTY!

No way. Ted is a very competent chemist. And the numbers he posted on June 5, 2000 (50-100 mg/Kg) are the REAL numbers for thujone' in vintage absinthe.

Don mentioned 90mg/Kg in Jade, not because he wanted to lure the "get-me-high" crowd, but because 90mg/Kg is what you get WHEN YOU MAKE AUTHENTIC ABSINTHE. Not a good or bad number, just what it is.

Were they bullshiting us in 2000 or are they bullshitting us now?

So what has actually changed in the last four years: The chemical composicion of vintage absinthe…or Jade's marketing plans?

< 10 mg/Kg = European Market Open > 10 mg/Kg = European Market Closed

You have to reach your own conclusions. Phil's indignation, though poorly expressed, is valid. This is an historical travesty. They are trying to sell us Premium Absente as Authentic Absinthe.

The history and the very essence of absinthe are being changed under our very noses.

Anyway, let's finish this post with a funny note. According to Ted on June 5, 2000, those who buy "thujone-free" Jade looking for secondaries are shit-out-of-luck, because:

"I do agree that I feel that thujone is not the only player in the secondary effects, although I'm convinced it plays an important role. "


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traineraz
post Dec 6 2007, 04:45 AM
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Once again, properly distill a wormwood maceration and demonstrate the high-thujone result.

Thanks.


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"Now that we've defined what marriage is, we need to take that further and say children deserve to be in that relationship." - Greg Quinlan of Ohio's Pro-Family Network, a conservative Christian group which apparently promotes pedophilia.

. . . and don't forget to read the FAQ and check out the Absinthe Buyer's Guide for brand reviews and distributor links!
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crosby
post Dec 6 2007, 08:03 AM
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In other words:


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eric
post Dec 6 2007, 12:52 PM
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There was no need to post all of that twice.



I really cannot see where any of it supports your accusations.



Oh and by the way, Hello Dr, O!

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Oxygenee
post Dec 6 2007, 04:06 PM
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He's BAAAAAAAAACK!

Welcome Dr O, always good to see you here.

I could explain the several fallacies in your argument, but that would spoil the fun, so I'll let it ride for a while…



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traineraz
post Dec 6 2007, 05:25 PM
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QUOTE(crosby @ Dec 6 2007, 12:03 AM) *

In other words:

Where the fuck do you FIND this stuff!?


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"Now that we've defined what marriage is, we need to take that further and say children deserve to be in that relationship." - Greg Quinlan of Ohio's Pro-Family Network, a conservative Christian group which apparently promotes pedophilia.

. . . and don't forget to read the FAQ and check out the Absinthe Buyer's Guide for brand reviews and distributor links!
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Oxygenee
post Dec 6 2007, 06:10 PM
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It's probably best not to ask.


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...et c’est l’absinthe enfin, la grande absinthe ou la petite, parure chaste des montagnes et des rivages marins, fille des grand vents purs, blé des espaces vierges, emblème de la liberté farouche.
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Steve
post Dec 6 2007, 06:16 PM
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QUOTE(dr_ordinaire @ Dec 5 2007, 08:31 PM) *
yammer yammer… blah blah…

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thegreenimp
post Dec 6 2007, 06:41 PM
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For newer members of Fee Verte.


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Donnie Darko
post Dec 6 2007, 06:48 PM
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I don't see what is inconsistent about anything Ted said there. When something was an estimate, he said it was an estimate. An estimate is not the same thing as actual measured t-jone content. He did make an error in his estimates, but anyone scientifically inclined is generally happy about making errors in their estimates, since when actual testing reveals those errors, that's how scientific discoveries are born!

You are criticizing Ted for approaching this scientifically, rather than just accepting everything based on calculated estimates only, as you and stupid Dr. Arnold apparently have done.

You are a word that rhymes with betarded.
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thegreenimp
post Dec 6 2007, 06:59 PM
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A little blast from the past of Dr. O, aka Yammering Nattering Nutjob.


Ordinaire's comments on the modern Pernod absinthe from Pernod-Ricard:

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A few comments from the archives on Ordiniare's skills:

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Ordinaire get's nailed by Marc Campbell

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All you are, and all you will ever be Ordinaire, is a joke.


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speedle
post Dec 6 2007, 07:09 PM
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Oh, thegreenimp, that is totally cruel. blink.gif

Who knew?



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