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> Question to FV, -- not sure if this is the right place to post this topic --
speedle
post Apr 16 2010, 11:58 PM
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Stroller, you left out at least two.

Otherwise, here goes. I wasn't going to wade into this, but I'm trying a new approach to life, and instead of beating my boss with a baseball bat, I'll just throw out an opinion or two here.

I feel like FV is the motherlode, the well, the root. It's where it started for me (if you don't count lurking 'round the Erowid site, ha!), and, I'll admit, where I come back to for the serious heavy hitting lowdown on the global perspective.

On the other hand, I think that WS, far from being La Fee (which is, after all, a low quality product), is more like Lucid (a well made product that just doesn't taste as good as some others). No, I don't like that analogy either, so fuck that. Better to just say that the Wormwood Society is, and is trying to be, the "Consumer Reports" of absinthe and absinthe education. Accessible, mostly non-confrontational, somewhat rigidly controlled, and having a consistent editorial vision that is partly Shabba's job.

I think we're WAY, WAY past comparing fora, forumites, and personal experiences at them. To me, anyway, they no longer serve totally overlapping purposes, and I like being at both, very much. I rely on both, just for different things these days.



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dakini_painter
post Apr 17 2010, 12:00 AM
Post #62


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QUOTE(Provenance @ Apr 16 2010, 11:04 AM) *

QUOTE(Shabba53 @ Apr 15 2010, 08:38 AM) *
We're trying to educate the public.

You place great importance on education and appearing "respectable" to enhance site popularity with newbies and the media.

Both goals are ultimately irrelevant. Absinthe is a drink, not a cause.


Absinthe certainly is just a drink. Unfortunately, many otherwise intelligent people are just as you say Prov "don't have a clue" when it comes to absinthe. I think it's a good thing that there are places on the internet whether it be WS or FV where they can find information of different brands, on proper preparation, history of the spirit.

Some of the memes surrounding absinthe are

o you hallucinate when you drink it (maybe people are referring to secondaries, I've never had one)
o you dip the sugar cube in the absinthe and light it on fire (well it looks cool)
o you drink it straight (or with little water, perhaps on the rocks)
o it tastes like sambuca or ouzo or licorice

At least the last one is closer to being accurate.

I know when I discovered absinthe and went to learn more, the main FV site was very useful. I remember looking over the reviews, the history, all that stuff. I lurked at the forums looking at what people were talking about. I didn't have an account at any of them for months. People don't need any forum in order to learn about absinthe. But they certainly were useful when none of my friends were interested in absinthe.

So much of what I learned when I got started I learned from FV and WS, and members at all the forums. So thank you!

Sadly, if people have the preconceived notions, they don't want to be told otherwise.


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EdouardPerneau
post Apr 17 2010, 12:09 AM
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QUOTE(Shabba53 @ Apr 16 2010, 07:11 PM) *



Oh, and Stroller, without the WS, you never would have found that bottle of PF White. wink.gif



Indeed ™


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Si tu veux t’aventurer dans la recherche sur l’absinthe c’est triste mais c’est en français que ça se passe .
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Stroller
post Apr 17 2010, 12:16 AM
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Speedle, I chose La Fee because some really like it while others detest it. I thought about Lucid but I hate the damn label.



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Shabba53
post Apr 17 2010, 12:47 AM
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QUOTE(Artemis @ Apr 16 2010, 07:47 PM) *
The "you" was a generic you, not you, Shabba.
Understood. Which is why I didn't necessarily point out your post specifically, because there were others that were bashing me personally for reporting what journalists have told me.

QUOTE
It seems to me that people with the attitude ascribed to the press and industry types by Shabba value the superficial over the essential.
Absolutely no argument there.
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Patlow
post Apr 17 2010, 06:35 AM
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You are the most annoying nice guy I never met.

"All of the comments smack of killing the messenger"

I just don't feel like you are the messenger.


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Marc
post Apr 17 2010, 09:02 AM
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Very interesting topic.
Artemis, I enjoy reading each of your words, you have the talent to phrase thoughts nicely.

Could someone please point me to the same topic at WS? (yes I'm lazy)


(where are the damn popcorns!)
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sixela
post Apr 17 2010, 01:01 PM
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QUOTE(Shabba53 @ Apr 15 2010, 07:24 PM) *

Fair enough.

But I guess that's where the difference between you and I lies. I'm a total proponent of caviat emptor,


Only people who eat cavear are.



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sixela
post Apr 17 2010, 01:07 PM
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QUOTE(Shabba53 @ Apr 16 2010, 12:15 AM) *

How many times have you seen Fee Verte referenced in an article?


How many times have I read Gwydion's name as the author of a peer-reviewed article?

Horses for courses. I'm sure many people like to read Peace and War in the Reader's Digest version. I don't.

QUOTE
The problem is wading through all of the flaming and vitriol.

They don't even have to touch the forum to get information.

What I like about the forum, though, is the fact that you can see different opinions. A clash of ideas is to me much more enlightening than a pre-chewn statement derived from some orthodoxy (even if the orthodoxy is actually right).

But then, I usually like questions that don't have trivial answers.

Yeah, I'm not "the public". But then, I like the fact the world also has bar stools for people like me.


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Marlow
post Apr 17 2010, 01:43 PM
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QUOTE(Provenance @ Apr 16 2010, 11:04 AM) *

QUOTE(Shabba53 @ Apr 15 2010, 08:38 AM) *
We're trying to educate the public.

You place great importance on education and appearing "respectable" to enhance site popularity with newbies and the media.

Both goals are ultimately irrelevant. Absinthe is a drink, not a cause.


I would argue that absinthe is a cause, at least for now. In most of the world, as best I can tell, there is no legal definition of absinthe and thus no protection for the identity of the drink (the recent Swiss faux pas notwithstanding). As it stands now, one could dissolve green crayon in Everclear and sell it as "absinthe," and there is a lot of economic muscle out there with a stake in ensuring that this situation continues. It is in the interest of every true absinthe enthusiast that accurate information be propagated…the less of a following there is for LTV, the better. Does anyone want to see liquor store shelves populated with LTV and Absentee, to the exclusion of Delaware Phoenix or Pacifique? Educating the public is one of the few things we can do to prevent that.

Additionally, there are a lot of modern day temperance advocates (at least in the States) who, though they may not have woken up to the absinthe revival yet, in time can be counted upon to come out in force for a new ban. Ignorance, myths about hallucinations…these things do us no good.

As for the press, love them or hate them, it is in our interest that they come to sites like WS and FV for information, as opposed to reprinting press releases from LTV. If reporters find the atmosphere at FV off-putting, then it's a good thing that WS provides a "less rowdy" alternative.

For the record, I like the atmosphere at WS. I've always felt I could say whatever I wanted to there, and I've never been censured for disagreeing with Hiram or anyone else.


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Jaded Prole
post Apr 17 2010, 01:56 PM
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Good for you but as Sixela pointed out, "They don't even have to touch the forum to get information." Though I too am irritated by the many varieties of swill that can and will pass themselves off as absinthe, I do not want the government (no doubt with the help of powerful businesses) to narrowly define what can be called "absinthe."
There is not and will probably never be enough Walton Waters, Pacifique, or Jade Eddie to satisfy mass consumption. Just as with beer, scotch or wines, there will always be better and worse with a high end small batch artisinal presence. Yes, education is important and the information here and on Oxy's site are available to all. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with being a member of any club or society but that is not what this is.


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A fine absinthe is the product of knowledge, craftsmanship, and talent. An exceptional absinthe is the product of those things plus obsession. Most absinthe is the product of marketing.
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Absomphe
post Apr 17 2010, 02:13 PM
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QUOTE(speedle @ Apr 16 2010, 04:58 PM) *

I feel like FV is the root.


I'll grant you, this forum has seen its share of swinging dicks come and go, but I'm not sure I'd go so far as to denigrate it like that. harhar.gif


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Marlow
post Apr 17 2010, 03:14 PM
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QUOTE(Jaded Prole @ Apr 17 2010, 09:56 AM) *

Good for you but as Sixela pointed out, "They don't even have to touch the forum to get information."


Agreed, but if because of the forum they choose not to touch the main site as well, then FV as a whole is less effective. I suspect that good reporters would make use of the main FV site regardless of their opinion of the forums, but I also think that good reporters are few and far between.

QUOTE
Though I too am irritated by the many varieties of swill that can and will pass themselves off as absinthe, I do not want the government (no doubt with the help of powerful businesses) to narrowly define what can be called "absinthe."


To be sure, the devil is always in the details. Still, the greater danger is that absinthe be defined too broadly. Because of legal definitions, even bad whiskey is still recognizable as whiskey. We can't say that about absinthe.


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La Fee Verte -- where the absinthe renaissance was blasted into a cloud of radioactive dust.
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sixela
post Apr 17 2010, 03:48 PM
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QUOTE(Marlow @ Apr 17 2010, 04:14 PM) *

QUOTE(Jaded Prole @ Apr 17 2010, 09:56 AM) *

Good for you but as Sixela pointed out, "They don't even have to touch the forum to get information."


Agreed, but if because of the forum they choose not to touch the main site as well,


Avec des "si", on met Paris dans une bouteille.

And why would tthat premise hold? The non-forum part is in the "antichambre" of the forum, not the other way around. Do you have any evidence of such behaviour?



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Shabba53
post Apr 17 2010, 04:20 PM
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QUOTE(sixela @ Apr 17 2010, 09:07 AM) *
How many times have I read Gwydion's name as the author of a peer-reviewed article?

That really has nothing to do with the conversation.

QUOTE
I'm sure many people like to read Peace and War in the Reader's Digest version. I don't.
Also nothing to do with the conversation, as we're not discussing people like us, who enjoy the atmosphere.

QUOTE
They don't even have to touch the forum to get information.
Are you intentionally acting dense? I don't think I can make my point any clearer.

QUOTE
What I like about the forum, though, is the fact that you can see different opinions.
Debate and differing opinions are never frowned upon at the WS. There are plenty of opposing views. It's exactly that type of statement that shows that you really don't know anything about what the WS really is. You stick to preconceived notions and propaganda and don't actually look at facts.

QUOTE(Jaded Prole @ Apr 17 2010, 09:56 AM) *

Good for you but as Sixela pointed out, "They don't even have to touch the forum to get information."

Again, it's irritating to see how close-minded you are about the reality of the situation.
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