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> Butterfly absinthe
Absinthia
post Aug 4 2010, 06:01 PM
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Has anyone tried this one yet? An authentic American recipe, made in the Swiss town of Couvet by Mr. Bugnon.

http://www.butterflyabsinthe.com/

On a side note, would the bottle of "Projet P" seen in Mr. Bugnon's distillery during the Fête de l'Absinthe in June have had anything to do with Butterfly absinthe (the "P" then standing for "Papillon" which is French for butterfly)…?
Just wondering. I didn't get the chance to taste the "P" since the wicked bus driving lady arrived to pick us up right after my first glass of Capricieuse.
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Steve
post Aug 4 2010, 06:41 PM
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Yes, I tasted it. I liked it! Brian F. sent me a sample. I will have to have a few more drinks before deciding for sure whether it's something I would frequently reach for. I just ordered a bottle from Rue Verte.

Marc said on Facebook that it is not the same as Project P, but I think it is. However, I got very drunk that Friday evening in Switzerland and my memory may not serve me well. The two herbs that we talked about being in Project P (which I'm not going to mention) seem to me to be prominent in Butterfly.

A certain Canadian was raving about it, saying it is the best commercial verte he's ever tasted. Perhaps he will chime in here.
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Tibro
post Aug 4 2010, 07:02 PM
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I read something on another forum that Project P is not Butterfly. I take it all with a grain of salt. Bugnon seems to have his fingers in so many pies. Who knows what misdirection he'd like to create during a public performance. Oh pie.


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Esseintes
post Aug 4 2010, 07:08 PM
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Regardless if this product is any good, it clearly shows the inconsequence of CAB.

You remember the IGP? Do you?
So on the one hand these guys try to get rid of all Absinthe "imitates" - so basically all non VdT formulas, right?

And now they come up with a reproduction of an old American formula? Something is generally wrong here!

Again - I don't want to quote the quality of the product, but doublespeak!

We're urged investing quite a lot of time and money to fight against the IGP to keep the Absinthemarket a free and liberal market. In case the IGP comes a lot great products are history.

Think twice one which side you are standing.

Keep the freedom!
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EdouardPerneau
post Aug 4 2010, 10:14 PM
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QUOTE(Steve @ Aug 4 2010, 02:41 PM) *

A certain Canadian was raving about it, saying it is the best commercial verte he's ever tasted. Perhaps he will chime in here.


Present … yes the best verte it just like helfrich orange aromas with vintageish absinthe in the back


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R3al Caravano
post Aug 4 2010, 11:17 PM
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It's hard to read in acronyms. My green fairy decoder ring did not come in the mail.


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Green Baron
post Aug 5 2010, 12:41 AM
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Maybe if you'd PTFA once in awhile you wouldn't need a LongWindedFuckin'Explainationlemur.gif

The IGP never had any sensible foundation to begin with but this just heaps hypocrisy on top of foolishness.

So will Butterfly be produced from here on out in VdT, or will normal production continue in the US? I hate it, but I just can't support the VdT folks while they're trying to screw other good distillers over, not mention myself as a consumer that would be potentially robbed of many excellent choices.


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Absinthia
post Aug 5 2010, 07:25 AM
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The VdT distillers were probably too drunk the moment they decided on the IGP thing and are now too proud to admit that they were plain wrong. Even they have to see the invalidness of their arguments. I'm sure that the commission that will decide on the IGP will see them. Too bad that indeed someone else has to pay a great deal in order to keep some sense in this world. And hey, you know on who's side I'm on.

QUOTE(Esseintes @ Aug 4 2010, 09:08 PM) *
And now they come up with a reproduction of an old American formula? Something is generally wrong here!


The same thought crossed my mind, seeing how the brand is being marketed you'd suppose they found an American distiller to make it. That would enhance the brand's credibility, right?

But that doesn't mean it can't make a great and tasty drink though, which was the real point of my question actually.
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Alan
post Aug 5 2010, 08:49 AM
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QUOTE(Green Baron @ Aug 4 2010, 04:41 PM) *
they're trying to screw other good distillers over, not mention myself as a consumer that would be potentially robbed of many excellent choices.

While I am not in the VDT producers' inner circle, I think that this does not reflect the producers' intent. The number one purpose is to protect the business inside Switzerland from the fake absinthes that have plagued the rest of the world. As the Swiss edge closer to the EU in trade terms, that IS a real threat.

Let's look at the "choices" Green Baron mentions:-

a) US absinthes: given that the largest drinks companies in the world cannot get the USA to stop making US champagne, I think the chances of a group of very small artisanal producers of VDT Absinthe achieving a coup with absinthe are precisely nil. Read this discussion on the American Distiller Forums, notably:-

"Granting the IGP for absinthe will have no effect on American absinthe producers. It doesn't even indicate an intention by Val de Travers producers to claim exclusive worldwide rights to the name. I know Ted Breaux and David Nathan-Maister are well respected, but they are grossly exaggerating the threat to absinthe producers outside of Switzerland."
Not my words, but those of Charles Cowdery, a well-known US drinks expert.

b) French absinthes: there is absolutely no automatic implementation of a Swiss IGP elsewhere. It would have to be negotiated, discussed, appealed etc. At the last count, the EU had over 800 IGP's they would like to implement in Switzerland in contrast to the 20 or so that Switzerland has currently. The bureaucrats of the EU and Switzerland will no doubt spend years and many millions of tax-payers euros and Swiss francs on that, and if I had to bet on the outcome, I would bet on the status quo being maintained.

c) Other absinthes produced in Switzerland: I am not an expert but I have heard views expressed that an IGP might not necessarily stop Matter exporting.

I have suggested to several of the parties who feel they are affected by this that they contact Yves Kubler to discuss this. To my knowledge, no-one has.

QUOTE(Absinthia @ Aug 4 2010, 11:25 PM) *

The VdT distillers were probably too drunk the moment they decided on the IGP thing and are now too proud to admit that they were plain wrong.
I agree it could have been handled differently, but the decision to protect their internal business in Switzerland is understandable

QUOTE(Absinthia @ Aug 4 2010, 11:25 PM) *

QUOTE(Esseintes @ Aug 4 2010, 09:08 PM) *
And now they come up with a reproduction of an old American formula? Something is generally wrong here!


The same thought crossed my mind, seeing how the brand is being marketed you'd suppose they found an American distiller to make it. That would enhance the brand's credibility, right?
Alternatively an absinthe that combines real, 100 year old US heritage and recipe with Swiss "savoir faire" and ingredients could have a very broad appeal. It's notable that precisely none of the US-made absinthes have made any impact outside the USA.

And to go back to your original question, Butterfly seems to be very popular among the few who have tried it. There is a lot of discussion on the French forum … with very little reference to the IGP.

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Tibro
post Aug 5 2010, 09:43 AM
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While I welcome reading your comments, Alan, and certainly think you have something to add as Bugnon's brand manager (or however you refer to your services there), I'm still troubled by your argument.

It seems to me that you're saying that you believe the IGP is a proper action on the part of the VdT distillers because it will be toothless and benign beyond the Swiss borders. You gloss Matter's inability to sell within that border, which is not benign. The French are dismissed using the technicality of automatic implementation, rather than eventual or, according to others, inevitable implementation. And the US, well that may as well be another planet.

What about the simple appropriateness of an IGP for the name of a weed? It's absurd. And manufacturing an absinthe based on an Amerikan recipe in the VdT is contradictory to the spirit of the application.

Somehow in my simple-headed silliness all I can think is "Oh pie, oh pie, opie."


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Donnie Darko
post Aug 5 2010, 01:08 PM
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On the topic of Butterfly Absinthe I am perplexed. While individual comments from trustworthy tasters do make it sound like a product worth looking into, the grammatically confusing web page describing how this absinthe was "recreated" tells you very little about the absinthe or its history or why we should believe them when they tell us this is a recreation of the original (they also say it is a modern rendition of the original, which seems contradictory).

I remember when the single bottle of Butterfly I've ever seen was up on eBay about 9 years ago. It seems as if the developer did a lot of research into the family history, but there is so little mention of the specifics of this particular absinthe, its distillery, recipe, origins, or even how it compares to the original (if a comparison is even possible), that I'm not confident this is anything more than a new absinthe that took on Butterfly's name. Of course I could be completely wrong, but there is no information on the page describing the product that inspires confidence in terms of it actually being an accurate recreation, and it's unfortunate that this recreation of an American original absinthe has led to just another expensive import. Perhaps this is all just me being confused by the website, and Brian F deserves the benefit of the doubt, but can anyone with more knowledge actually tell us anything in detail about the original butterfly absinthe beyond who made it and where it was made?

I'm also curious about the claim on the website that wormwood was so prominent in the US that it was exported to Europe for absinthe manufacture. That's the first I've heard this un-cited claim. Can anybody verify it?
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Kirk
post Aug 5 2010, 01:36 PM
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You've heard me say it, I can't find the, (didn't bother looking for it) but it said that many thousands of kilos were grown in the US, the states mentioned were Michigan and Minnesota. I recall the reason given for importing the wormwood from the US was not because there was an excess but because of the gentle flavors it imparts to the product.
On a side note, I have to laugh whenever I see "recreation". So far there has only been one person in the world that I know of that is capable of making one.
The original protocols have never been written down accurately, or interpreted correctly, none of the commercial distillers have gotten right yet. There may be some drinkable absinthe being made but no commercial producer has taken (all) the steps to truly recreate a pre ban.


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Alan
post Aug 5 2010, 02:27 PM
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QUOTE(Donnie Darko @ Aug 5 2010, 05:08 AM) *

I'm also curious about the claim on the website that wormwood was so prominent in the US that it was exported to Europe for absinthe manufacture. That's the first I've heard this un-cited claim. Can anybody verify it?

Chicago Daily Tribune 1903

Donnie, the Butterfly site states:

"The first step of the project was enlisting a group of local historians to research the brand and the Dempsey family. The research yielded a treasure trove of distilling information including a collection of books once owned by the Dempsey family with hand annotated recipes."

I understand from Brian that his researchers unearthed several recipes and I confirm that we are using an authentic recipe from the Dempseys. We cannot know how close we are to the taste of the original absinthe produced: until a sample presents itself, we can only speculate.
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EdouardPerneau
post Aug 5 2010, 02:37 PM
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IGP is juste another case stop mixing butterfly with it


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Donnie Darko
post Aug 5 2010, 03:02 PM
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QUOTE(Alan @ Aug 5 2010, 10:27 AM) *

QUOTE(Donnie Darko @ Aug 5 2010, 05:08 AM) *

I'm also curious about the claim on the website that wormwood was so prominent in the US that it was exported to Europe for absinthe manufacture. That's the first I've heard this un-cited claim. Can anybody verify it?

Chicago Daily Tribune 1903


Oh! I didn't look at the Blog section because I usually avoid reading anything called "Blog" because blog to me always meant "unedited opinion and speculation". That's very interesting that the US was once a desirable source of wormwood. The Chicago Tribune article is hilarious in its hysteria.

It seems like Butterfly is on the right track. Since a treasure trove of information has been unearthed, it would be great for the absinthe community to be allowed access to whatever pieces of the information that would not jeopardize Butterfly's recipe/process, but would nonetheless provide more information about the brand.
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