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> EU Definition of Absinthe., Unless it's from the Jura Mountains it will not be absinthe?
Patlow
post Aug 16 2012, 11:38 PM
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Provenance
post Aug 17 2012, 01:16 AM
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QUOTE(Jay @ Aug 16 2012, 02:18 PM) *
You don't support a formal definition of absinthe in the United States?

Nope. There's posts somewhere on here explaining why but the short version is I think a legal definition would only help the business interests that get it through the regulatory system while limiting competition. I don't give a crap about (actually I'm contemptuous of) the notion of protecting the newly good name of absinthe from crapsinths. If someone drinks Windexsinth because they didn't do a little basic research, that's their problem. Unless the like it in which case they should be able to enjoy it without undue interference. After all, there's only one definition of good absinthe, absinthe you like.

What I do support is lifting the absurdly low American t-jone limits. Now that would benefit drinkers irrespective of their tastes.


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Provenance
post Aug 17 2012, 01:20 AM
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QUOTE(thegreenimp @ Aug 16 2012, 03:38 PM) *
Most can't carry a tune, much less a harmony.

I would prove you wrong on that -- if I could.


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Steve
post Aug 17 2012, 05:58 PM
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QUOTE(thegreenimp @ Aug 16 2012, 04:38 PM) *

I'd be more impressed by better product, rather than who owns the naming rights.

It's true there are a lot of boring les bleues which are indistinguishable from each other, but to my taste there are 3 or 4 really superb absinthes being produced in the VdT which are among my top picks.
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Jay
post Aug 17 2012, 07:04 PM
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Correct me if I'm wrong Provenance, but based on the short version of the argument you mentioned, it sounds to me like the concern is that the "business interests" you cited might manipulate the definition of absinthe to serve their own economic and/or corporate interests, to the detriment of (potentially legitimate) competition. But if you aren't concerned about protecting the name of absinthe from the crapsinths, then it wouldn't matter much if those business interests managed to pull that off. The legitimate competition making genuine absinthe could market their product under a different name, or modified version (since they're not able to market it as simply "absinthe" right now anyway without the required compound of "superiore" or something similar). Hell, that scenario even offers a benefit, in that if the competition doesn't use the name "absinthe", they may not be held to the current t-jone restrictions, or even be tested for it at all. (Side note: does anyone happen to know if other "herbal liqueurs" and such are tested for t-jone or any other elements considered to be harmful?)

Still, that's not how I'd like to see it played out. Absinthe shouldn't have to disguise itself. There may be a risk in trying to have some government body form a legal definition, but for the overall health of the category I think it's worth that risk. Absinthe is hovering on obscurity even after all the talk and controversy of tripped ballz and t-jone and cocktail revivals, and establishing it once again as simply being an enjoyable liquor by setting some very basic standards could set the foundation for its future growth. The newfound "credibility" of such an event might even inspire some action on reducing or removing the limits on t-jone in time.

As tasty as the "non COs" are, the obvious concerns about the manufacture and acquisition/distribution of those products have me hoping for more choices and overall higher-quality on the liquor store shelves.

And I agree, Steve, on both counts.
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Tibro
post Aug 17 2012, 07:16 PM
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Thuj0ne measurements are required for potables containing Artemisia absinthium, irregardless of the class. Put it in the whiskey recipe you submit and it will be tested.

How many of the noble distillers making artisanal absinthe today do you think are hedging on being bought by a major label tomorrow? I'd put money on at least one. The longer the class remains obscure the longer there will be quality choices on the liquor store shelves. Bet on it.


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Bruno Rygseck
post Aug 17 2012, 07:46 PM
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QUOTE(Tibro @ Aug 16 2012, 11:21 PM) *

It's just lickerish tasting crap. Which is what most people call it anyway.

So, just label it boisson spiritueuse au gout de reglisse ou de merdre.


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Tibro
post Aug 17 2012, 07:48 PM
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I'd copyright that if I were you.


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Provenance
post Aug 17 2012, 08:01 PM
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QUOTE(Jay @ Aug 17 2012, 11:04 AM) *
it sounds to me like the concern is that the "business interests" you cited might manipulate the definition of absinthe to serve their own economic and/or corporate interests, to the detriment of (potentially legitimate) competition.

There is no other reason why business interest would otherwise invest the money to try and get the changed definition. The Swiss situation, although different from the US, is the perfect illustration. The only reason why VdT distillers want the change is to force everyone else out of the absinthe market, at least in Switzerland although they could probably market their absinthe under a different designation.

QUOTE
it wouldn't matter much if those business interests managed to pull that off.

It would because it hurts other producers. Since the only point of a restriction in definition to force other producers either out of the market or into an inferior competitive position, such as making it harder to get shelf space in stores.

So, currently we have a situation where anyone can market a spirit called absinthe (if it can meet already asinine regulatory requirements). Consumers decide which can stay on the shelf and which don't.

Proposals is to further restrict what can be sold as abinsthe only serve to further limit consumer choice. What's the benefit in that? [Pernod Ricard, please feel free to respond either on the Bored or by PM]

QUOTE
The legitimate competition making genuine absinthe could market their product under a different name

Which would make it harder to get shelf space and stay on the market.

QUOTE
or modified version

Why should consumers have to settle for absinthe which has been modified to meet the interests of large producers? Instead, I would suggest that, the Syndicate™ modify their products to make them better instead of seeking to gain market share by reducing competition.

QUOTE
that scenario even offers a benefit, in that if the competition doesn't use the name "absinthe", they may not be held to the current t-jone restrictions, or even be tested for it at all.

The US thuojone limit applies to spirits for human consumption, not just absinthe. Otherwise, we would already see such herbal beverages on the market.

QUOTE
(Side note: does anyone happen to know if other "herbal liqueurs" and such are tested for t-jone or any other elements considered to be harmful?)


That's a good question but let me substitute Prole's more expansive question instead,
QUOTE(Jaded Prole @ Aug 14 2012, 12:32 PM) *

Do they count for sausage


QUOTE
Absinthe is hovering on obscurity even after all the talk

I think the reason for that has less to do with regulations and definitions that there is simply limited modern interest, particularly in the US for anise-based spirits. There are some great araks on the market, but they sell only in limited quantities and then mostly as a heritage spirit to relatively small communities.


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Jack Batemaster
post Aug 17 2012, 08:43 PM
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QUOTE(Sixer @ Aug 17 2012, 12:46 PM) *

QUOTE(Pruno Rucksack @ Aug 16 2012, 11:21 PM) *

So, just label it boisson spiritueuse au gout de reglisse ou de merdre.

de la boisson spiritueuse qui goûte comme de la réglisse noire et de la merde™


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Mon but est simplement d'obtenir Ricard hors de l'absinthe, juste lêchez le reste d'entre eux …
Mon but est simplement d'obtenir Ricard hors de l'absinthe, juste lêchez le reste d'entre eux …
Mon but est simplement d'obtenir Ricard hors de l'absinthe, juste lêchez le reste d'entre eux …
Mon but est simplement d'obtenir Ricard hors de l'absinthe, juste lêchez le reste d'entre eux …
Mon but est simplement d'obtenir Ricard hors de l'absinthe, juste lêchez le reste d'entre eux …
Mon but est simplement d'obtenir Ricard hors de l'absinthe, juste lêchez le reste d'entre eux …
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Jay
post Aug 17 2012, 09:07 PM
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QUOTE(Provenance @ Aug 17 2012, 08:01 PM) *

QUOTE
or modified version

Why should consumers have to settle for absinthe which has been modified to meet the interests of large producers?


Sorry for the confusion. I meant modified version of only the name/label of "absinthe", not a modification of the contents of the product itself.

QUOTE

That's a good question but let me substitute Prole's more expansive question instead,
QUOTE(Jaded Prole @ Aug 14 2012, 12:32 PM) *

Do they count for sausage


I can't imagine that the lobbyists for Tyson and the rest would allow that to happen, what with all the pork in politics.

QUOTE
Absinthe is hovering on obscurity even after all the talk

I think the reason for that has less to do with regulations and definitions that there is simply limited modern interest, particularly in the US for anise-based spirits.

I agree. My thought was that perhaps if absinthe was made an official, "legitimate" category of liquor with only quality products on the shelves, in time more and more consumers would give it a try and many of them might develop a taste for it. Then again, as you mentioned there are other quality anise-based spirits on the shelves now, and they're a small niche as well, so perhaps that cultural divide of palates is too great to bridge.
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Tibro
post Aug 17 2012, 09:14 PM
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QUOTE
an official, "legitimate" category of liquor with only quality products on the shelves

Class definitions do not eliminate inferior products from inclusion in the class. Just as lack of a definition does not exclude quality products from gaining shelf space.


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Jay
post Aug 17 2012, 09:21 PM
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A correct legal definition would eliminate invalid (not necessarily inferior) product. There may be some bad absinthes on the shelves after the implementation of a such a definition, but not any non-absinthes (theoretically).

The lack of a definition, however, could indeed contribute to preventing a quality absinthe from finding a place on the shelf. For many stores, they only have the room to stock one or two absinthes, and if the proprietors aren't familiar with the category, they could (and often do) make poor choices.
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Tibro
post Aug 17 2012, 09:26 PM
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Too many proprietors are the last to know what they're stocking on their shelves. The distributors are the greater problem, if I understand the model korrectly.


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Esseintes
post Aug 18 2012, 08:35 AM
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As soon as there is a legal definition the IGP is of no importance out of Switzerland. However you can't keep established businesses away from what they are legally doing since years. So various categories (like with Gin) have to be defined. As producer of a superiour product you're free to display this and the other categories on your product, so consumers at least are informed about what they are drinking. At the moment it's most important to oppose against this ridicules decision. In Bruxelles everything seems to be slow, but maybe not as slow as in Bern.
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