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> origins of the formula
delirium
post Mar 25 2015, 10:25 AM
Post #31


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QUOTE("Jack Batemaster")

Pas Dr. O, mais Dr.O.

Il n'existe pas.


Anyone care to clarify?


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Artemis
post Mar 25 2015, 02:26 PM
Post #32


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Trying to clarify Jack's posts is risky business, but my guess is as follows:

Jack said Dr. O didn't exist.
I supplied evidence that he (the French doctor who moved to Switzerland) did exist.
Jack responded that he wasn't talking about the French doctor, but the person who posts here as Dr. O.


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dr_ordinaire
post Mar 25 2015, 03:40 PM
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Bibo, ergo sum.


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Absomphe
post Mar 25 2015, 11:09 PM
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And, considering the drain that the purchase of absinthe can be on the wallet, I drink, therefore, I O(we) might also work.


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delirium
post Mar 26 2015, 06:05 AM
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Ok. I was confused because I was googling here and there about the matter of Dr. Ordinaire and have faint recollections of finding very contradictory information about him.
But you know how it is with a brain of an absinthist…


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Artemis
post Mar 26 2015, 01:52 PM
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Years ago the information on the Internet was contradictory (still is, if you read in plenty of different places), but you couldn't rely on any of it because it was all, what's the word, anecdotal. Most sources repeated the same story - they were all parroting each other, but they tweaked it a little to suit their own predilections, or changed it unintentionally through error, thus the contradictions. And of course, some of them expressed their belief that the doctor was only a myth.
The independent work done to establish the facts, by people who posted the results at the French forum, as referenced in the Calling Dr. O. thread, was fairly recent, and ground-breaking actually. Nobody before that had presented birth and death records, not that I saw or heard of, anyway.

What we know now is that the man definitely existed, was a surgeon, and had children, some of whom grew up to be doctors themselves, and that he fled France for political reasons to live in Switzerland. And that he for many years lived in the same town as other people (Pernod, Henriod, Dubied) who are variously claimed to be originators of absinthe as a commercial product. Anecdotal evidence pegs him as a tall, gangly Ichabod Crane sort of fellow who rode around on a horse (named Rocket) too small for him, dispensing HG cures to the sick, and that can't help but to enhance him in legend.

"I'm riding a small tiny horse, his name is Mighty Little, he's a good horse"
Frank Zappa, about moving to Montana to become a dental floss tycoon.


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Alan
post Mar 26 2015, 05:11 PM
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A good account by one of the global experts on absinthe history … and in English.
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Artemis
post Mar 26 2015, 05:30 PM
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QUOTE
and in English

Not originally.
After I got done with it, it was. wink.gif


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delirium
post Mar 27 2015, 06:11 AM
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Cool, thanks!
Is the information in one message chain in the French forum or spread in several? Link?



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L'Assommoir
post Mar 27 2015, 08:13 AM
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Here is another good article about the Dr.'s interesting history:
http://www.absinthe-duvallon.com/article-d…-118524375.html
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Artemis
post Mar 27 2015, 05:06 PM
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QUOTE(delirium @ Mar 27 2015, 06:11 AM) *
Cool, thanks!
Is the information in one message chain in the French forum or spread in several? Link?

There may be more than one thread with discussions of Ordinaire, but the thread wherein his birth certificate was shown (by g_painblanc) with subsequent discussion is here:

http://www.museeabsinthe.com/forums/index....inaire&st=0


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Artemis
post Mar 29 2015, 05:36 PM
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QUOTE(L'Assommoir @ Mar 27 2015, 08:13 AM) *
Here is another good article about the Dr.'s interesting history:
http://www.absinthe-duvallon.com/article-d…-118524375.html


Indeed. Very good. Just when I thought Google translation was improving, it makes a complete mess of that. So I translated it immediately, but I have been waiting for approval to post it, which I have now received from Duvallon with Marc's help.

Was he real? More real than was comfortable for a lot of people.
Doctor? Almost certainly not.
Con man? Almost certainly so.
Good neighbor? Depends upon whether he was healing your child or stealing your hay.
Political refugee? If fleeing the country to avoid prosecution for deserting the military counts, then yes.

This translation presented some problems. Note that the authors say that they verbatim preserved the spelling and syntax in the excerpts from old documents. I didn't have that luxury and had to figure out what the hell they were talking about through the misspellings, non-standard spellings, old (as in obsolete) French, etc. It's not perfect, but I'm satisfied that it's good enough.

I will serialize it, because it's pretty long.


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Artemis
post Mar 29 2015, 06:07 PM
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Pierre Ordinaire - the legend no longer has credence
© Michel Kreis – Jacques Grandjean – Jacques Kaeslin

Deserter from the French army, so-called doctor/surgeon and inventor of absinthe in the form of medicine, the legend of Dr. Ordinaire takes a hit after thorough historical research by Michel Kreis, Jacques Grandjean and Jacques Kaeslin.

The history of absinthe extract rests in good part upon legend, notably about the people who are at the origin of the beverage. If the only incontestable fact, at least not called into question heretofore, of this legend is surely the birth in the Val de Travers of this aperitif drink, the associated figures are the object of controversy, sometimes virulent. A number of documents of all kinds recount the beginnings of absinthe, by feeding upon elements of information gleaned hither and yon without the help of old documents to even support their content.
Among these figures, there is one who provokes a multitude of questions and who feeds, in recurrent fashion, the theories on the origins of absinthe extract.
He is Pierre Ordinaire, born on 11 September 1741 at Quingey, a town in the department of Doubs, where his parents are supposed to have been farmers or day laborers.

According to the legend, Pierre Ordinaire was a doctor and surgeon, having found refuge in the Val de Travers, persecuted as he was supposed to have been in France for political and/or religious reasons. He is supposed to have carried a recipe for absinthe extract in his baggage, dispensing the elixir generously to his patients, whom he reached by riding his little horse named Rocket.

The information relative to Pierre Ordinaire developed below rests upon documents of the period that come from the archives of the commune of Couvet and the archives of the State of Neuchâtel, places where each and everyone may consult them. The recent discovery of other documents, heretofore completely ignored, permit the shedding of new light upon the person of Pierre Ordinaire. First let's recall already-known facts.



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Artemis
post Mar 29 2015, 06:11 PM
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On August 21st, 1768, the assembly of the community of Couvet adopted a resolution which had been taken up in the communities of Môtiers, Boveresse and Fleurier to find a doctor-surgeon for the four villages, such that a pension of one hundred livres faibles would be allocated, at the rate of one fourth of the total each.

Responding to this invitation to tender, Pierre Ordinaire presented himself at Couvet. Here is what the text of the minutes of the assembly says for September 8th, 1768:

"Mr. Ordinaire having come to Mr. Perrelet to submit to the examination required for reception in this place, by means of two louis neufs (currency) of pension and Mr. Perrelet having requested the honorable community to declare itself as to the nature of the exam it requested, it was stated that by presenting his letters of learning and behavior, he would be accepted for one year without further examination."

Three days later, the village assembly met again to render its decision on the candidacy of French doctor Francois Joseph Deleschaux. The minutes show the following:

"Mr. Deleschaux of Besançon having submitted his certificates of mastery to be accepted as doctor and surgeon in this place, it was unanimously stated that he is accepted with these qualifications, however with the reservation that if Mr. Ordinaire, by the eighth of this month, presents his letters of learning and mastery, his acceptance will be reconfirmed."

Dr. Deleschaux did not stay in Couvet, as we will see below. He settled at Neuchâtel as his majesty's doctor, living in the castle. He died in 1819 in the county seat and his body rests in the old cemetery of Landeron, the village where he received Bourgeois status in 1815.


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Artemis
post Mar 29 2015, 06:12 PM
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Marriage and seven children

Consequently established in Couvet where he lived in the building of the old Eagle Hotel, Pierre Ordinaire married, three years after his arrival, Henriette Petitpierre, daughter of the proprietor of the establishment. The wedding was celebrated on October 28th, 1771 in Russey, another town in the department of Doubs, close to the border with our country. Seven children were born of this union, three born in Quingey and the others in Couvet. The eldest, Pierre Marie Joseph, born on March 20th, 1772 at Quingey, practiced as medical officer in the regiment of the Swiss Guards.

The place of marriage speaks to us, inasmuch as Pierre Ordinaire left his country of origin due to persecution for religious or political motives. And, at that time, this region of Franche-Comté, incidentally very Catholic, was in turmoil and disturbances were severely suppressed there. The reason for the marriage on the other hand is more easily understood with regard to the birth (date) of the first child.

Not respectful of laws and customs

Settled in Couvet, where he had no competition, Pierre Ordinaire did not engender unanimous approval. In effect, not very respectful of the laws and customs of the time and place, he was several times docked for various reasons, for harboring a foreigner or for failing to repair his chimney, or mowing the hay of others. Although married to the daughter of a notable of Couvet, the question of his estrangement from the village was brought up in the village assembly.

At the request of the Council of State. Jacques Frédéric Martinet, captain and chatelaine of the Val de Travers, two reports were written, dated 31 October 1768 and 18 February 1769. In eight pages this magistrate relates information gathered about Pierre Ordinaire, notably about his arrival in our country.


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