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The Fée Verte Absinthe Forum - The Oldest, Largest, Most Authoritative Absinthe Forum. > Absinthe & Absinthiana > Dr Magnan's Lab
Marc Chevalier

http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~cas2/journal/s.../abstract.shtml

Check out the second abstract on the list.

traineraz
QUOTE
When the subjects were under the influence of alcohol or were administered both alcohol and a low chop.gif concentration, these effects were not observed.


I guess we need to look that article up and see what is qualified as a "high" or "low" dose of Tom Jones. After all, the low dose could be as much as is in any absinthe, anyway.
I_B_Puffin
QUOTE
Under this condition, the subjects tended to direct their attention to signals in the central field of attention and to neglect peripheral signals;


Then maybe Thujone will replace Ritalin for ADD.
Hiram
What?
tabreaux
I am familiar with the study in question. The study is not perfect, but is fairly good in its own right, and does shed some light as to what range of oral t-jone dosage yields effects that can be scientifically gauged.

In the study, male subjects are randomly administered dosages of 0, 0.028, and 0.28 mg/kg of t-jone on separate occasions (females very slighty less), and are subjected to tests designed to assay nervous system function. In a nutshell, the highest dosage created some effects that were discernable through the tests, while the lower dosage and control group yielded similarly uninteresting results.

To put this into perspective, I would have to consume around 240mL (5-6 1.5oz shots) of a spirit containing 100 mg/kg t-jone to reach the dosage where discernable effects are evident. Of course, the effects of the alcohol far eclipse any effects of t-jone at that point. Furthermore, only 3 of the 22 test subjects were able to correctly identify the three different dosage preparations.

In conclusion, this supports the assertion that I frequently use whereby I say that whether it contains 0, 10, or 100 mg/kg of t-jone, you won't the difference from drinking it.
sixela
QUOTE (tabreaux @ Nov 24 2004, 07:11 PM)
In the study, male subjects are randomly administered dosages of 0, 0.028, and 0.28 mg/kg

Per kg of what? kg body mass?
Ari
I thought it was well enough established that tjones doesn't exist in high enough quantities to give an effect.
Are there any studies that support the thought that there is an "active ingredient" in absinthe (besides alcohol) to begin with?
Or research that tries to find out what that ingredient is, without immediately assuming it's tjones?
tabreaux
QUOTE (sixela @ Nov 24 2004, 11:15 AM)
QUOTE (tabreaux @ Nov 24 2004, 07:11 PM)
In the study, male subjects are randomly administered dosages of 0, 0.028, and 0.28 mg/kg

Per kg of what? kg body mass?

Yes. Forgive me for not making that clear.
traineraz
Danke, Ted.

I tried to find it on sciencedirect, but the journal wasn't listed.
sixela
QUOTE (tabreaux @ Nov 24 2004, 11:13 PM)
QUOTE (sixela @ Nov 24 2004, 11:15 AM)
QUOTE (tabreaux @ Nov 24 2004, 07:11 PM)
In the study, male subjects are randomly administered dosages of 0, 0.028, and 0.28 mg/kg

Per kg of what? kg body mass?

Yes. Forgive me for not making that clear.

Interesting. 0.28mg/kg body mass is well below the No-observable-effects-limit of (alpha)-chop.gif in rats at roughly 10mg/kg body mass (agreedly, the "observable effects" in rats aren't as subtle as those in this study), by a factor of about 35.

Of course, with absinthe containing 10mg/l of alpha-t-jone, you'd have to drink *liters* to reach that 0.28mg/kg of body mass...quite unlikely, especially if you add water to that absinthe at 4:1.

tabreaux
The level of t-jone tested was indeed below what one would consider as being sufficient to cause 'outwardly observable' effects, as in the test with rats. To achieve a similar effect for this study would likely require ingesting a dangerous amount.
Ari
The effects of higher chop.gif levels seem to run counter to most descriptions of absinthe's secondary effects. Acting more like an inhibitor and fogifier (I don't care if that's not a word) instead of a defogifier as many describe.
sixela
QUOTE (tabreaux @ Nov 25 2004, 12:43 AM)
The level of t-jone tested was indeed below what one would consider as being sufficient to cause 'outwardly observable' effects, as in the test with rats. To achieve a similar effect for this study would likely require ingesting a dangerous amount.

Well, with proper medical care, you can survive 60 mg/kg of alpha-chop.gif - it's been proven. But just barely, and I don't think acute renal failure and utter confusion for days on ends are worthy endeavours to pursue wink.gif.

That dose was close to LD50 (lethal dose for 50% of subjects) in rats, but then, the rats weren't treated as well as the person who "accidentally" ingested 10ml of wormwood essential oil...
MarKoPoLo
QUOTE (Ari @ Nov 24 2004, 02:53 PM)
The effects of higher chop.gif levels seem to run counter to most descriptions of absinthe's secondary effects. Acting more like an inhibitor and fogifier (I don't care if that's not a word) instead of a defogifier as many describe.

Thats what always confused me as well. I mean if the side effects of Tjones consist of fogging the brain then why is it that Absinthe is described to clear ones mind?
Hiram
Because drunks don't know what they're talking about.
MarKoPoLo
I know some who would say the same about the sober.
Absomphe
Yes, but most of THEM are drunk, which reinforces Hiram's point.
Brett
"Now Terry you’re repeating yourself
But that’s okay drunk people can’t help that.
A chemical reaction inside your brain causes you to forget what you’re saying." -The Streets, "The Irony of it All"
dr_ordinaire
If you conduct a study administering subjects a full gram of DMT (dimethyltryptamine) orally, you would reach the conclusion that it produces no observable effects.

Sameways with administering them a full gram of a beta-carboline (like harmaline).

However, if you administer just 50 mg of DMT and 100 mg of harmaline, you would observe PROFOUND psychological effects, i.e. they will fly for hours.

That's why the Rutgers U. study does not apply to absinthe. They used alcohol and chop.gif, and that is NOT what absinthe is. (Well, maybe Absinthe King...)

Absinthe is a much more complex mix, and you cannot determine the end result of this "gestalt" just by looking at the behaviour of one of its components.
MarKoPoLo
QUOTE (Absomphe @ Nov 24 2004, 08:16 PM)
Yes, but most of THEM are drunk, which reinforces Hiram's point.

Meh, true enough.
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