Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Social Security
The Fťe Verte Absinthe Forum - The Oldest, Largest, Most Authoritative Absinthe Forum. > The Monkey Hole > The Newgate Calendar
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
Donnie Darko
It's sad that Mr. Bush is not going to follow the plan for Social Security outlined by his own conservative ex-Treasury Secretary, Paul O'Neill. This is a brilliant editorial by Paul O'Neill, which nails the social security issue and proposes real reform, not the wall street give away Dubya proposed last night.
Who Wants to be a Millionaire?

Rather than approaching Social Security reform as an optimistic opportunity to do something great, Bush is resorting to selling it through fear, and turning the program into a clone of England's failed program.

Also, Mr. Bush did not mention in his SOTU address that only the first $90,000 of income is taxed by Social Security, and that the best way to prevent bankruptcy is merely to demand his rich buddies pay their fare share by taxing ALL income, rather than just the first $90K.

And all those people in Red are still pretending King George is looking out for their best interests...
Artemis
Hopefully O'Neill can spell "wants" ...

It's amazing how you Libs who claim you want to stick to the argument can't function without shit-for-brains liberal buzzwords such as "wall street give away".

Bush proposed that a whopping 4% of the money confiscated from us by the government be invested, in THE SAME instruments as proposed by O'Neill. O'Neill wants 100% of the money to go. Who's proposing the greatest risk? What's being given to Wall Street in either case?

It's good that O'Neill at least twice reminds us that the government has no money unless it takes it from us first. That ought to be drilled into the heads of first-graders until they puke.

A better solution is to leave me the hell alone. I can invest my own money, thank you. I was disgusted with most of Bush's speech, and that piddly 4% thing made me want to slap him silly - O'Neil's plan is better in every way, except it should be voluntary. Those who don't volunteer should get no government funds in that plan or any other.

Personally, I welcome the moment when I go over the limit for the year and I stop getting robbed for that disgraceful ponzi scheme. You would too, once you get the taste for it. It's easy to play robbing hood with someone else's money.
SnakeHead
QUOTE
The next dickwad who says, "Itís your money, not the government's money" is gonna get their ass kicked. Nine of the ten states that get the most federal fucking dollars and pay the least... can you guess? Go on, guess. Thatís right, motherfucker, they're red states. And eight of the ten states that receive the least and pay the most? Itís too easy, asshole, theyíre blue states. Itís not your money, assholes, itís fucking our money. What was that Real American Value you were spouting a minute ago? Self reliance? Try this for self reliance: buy your own fucking stop signs, assholes.


Read the whole thing at http://www.fuckthesouth.com/
Jaded Prole
To bad the twerp's ideologically driven plan would rather spend 1 to 2 trillion dollars to destroy our SSI through privitization scams then to shore up the trust fund and replace the money that has been taken from it by his and previous administrations. A simple 2% increase in funding (from any source) would keep SSI solvent through this century.

His lies about the system being "in crisis" are about as accurate as his claims of Iraqi WMDs and his plan to "fix" the system will be as effective as his plans to fix Afghanistan and Iraq.

Maybe W stands for his being a weapon of mass destruction.

If I really hated this country, I'd have to love Bush!
Donnie Darko
QUOTE (Artemis @ Feb 3 2005, 08:49 AM)
O'Neill wants 100% of the money to go.  Who's proposing the greatest risk?  What's being given to Wall Street in either case?



The difference is that O'Neill wants the money to go into broad index funds which would require very little management from brokers. Little management=little cost.

Bush's plan would put less money into something that would require more management by brokers. More management=greater cost. They already tried this in England, and the management costs were so expensive that 15 cents on every dollar went to administrative, which is far more expensive than our current version of SS in America. Some savings!
Breson
First of all, Bush is not the first one to admit that Social Security is broken most likely beyond any salvation. Clinton warned us as well, just chose not to make it a priority item. At least Bush has the balls to paint the target on his chest and actually do something.

QUOTE
Bush's plan would put less money into something that would require more management by brokers. More management=greater cost. They already tried this in England, and the management costs were so expensive that 15 cents on every dollar went to administrative, which is far more expensive than our current version of SS in America. Some savings!

First, he suggested that this money could be put into secure bond and low risk investment funds. These historically require very little internvention and low maintenance costs. You don't even have to participate in these accounts if you don't want to!

The government will not force you to put it into any particular investment scheme, just to disqualify unscrupulous or exceptionally risky ones (ie:small cap stocks, low rated bonds, etc.). This is a standard proven tactic for managing retirement accounts. I have never seen any fund that 15 cents of every dollar goes to admin. But would be interested to review the prospectus of one if you know of any.

QUOTE
His lies about the system being "in crisis" are about as accurate as his claims of Iraqi WMDs and his plan to "fix" the system will be as effective as his plans to fix Afghanistan and Iraq.

Please call Bill Clinton and let him know he is wrong as well. Regardless of your political idealology, IT IS BROKEN AND WILL FAIL. This has been harbingered for decades now. The math Bush used for retirees vs payors is not flawed. Can we bail it out?? Sure we can. Someone raise their hand to be the first in the 60% tax bracket. Or actually explain it to your kids as it will affect them the most.

QUOTE
Read the whole thing at http://www.fuckthesouth.com/

Is this a news piece??? Not hardly. It is pathetic poop.gif and most inaccurate.

Hate Bush all you want, numbers don't lie. This is not an agenda, it is the problem that exists that needs to be fixed. I have no clue what you think Bush benefits if more money goes to "Wall Street" or why you think it is even all going to "Wall Street".

I would rather not wait in line at the stadium to get into the game after it is already long over.

If you are smart you have already started some sort of personal account years ago rather than banking on Social Security to do anything for you.

The White House Web page

click here and go read, there will be a quiz later
SnakeHead
QUOTE
Is this a news piece??? Not hardly. It is pathetic  and most inaccurate.


Never called it news. But it is funny as hell and highly accurate. Check the statistics yourself. Better yet prove any assertion wrong. You seem awfully lazy when it comes to doing research or citing facts to back your arguments.

Feel its inaccurate? Prove it!
Breson
Before you call me lazy based on your disagreement with my political ideals, I suggest you study your sources rather than just sniping surface statements
Full Report on Taxes by State
The information includes all taxes including customs duties, taxes on alcohol and tobacco and corporate income taxes to name a few. Much of this money ultimately comes from business done countrywide. Also the total expenditures by state will be an interesting read as well.Open up the pdf file and read rather than skimming its surface.

Might want to study some of the other source as well

The crime statistics factor in crime at Colleges and Universities yet the population of these schools is not considered on the states cencus figures.
Donnie Darko
QUOTE (Breson @ Feb 3 2005, 11:02 AM)
I have no clue what you think Bush benefits if more money goes to "Wall Street" or why you think it is even all going to "Wall Street".

Gollee sarge, you mean to tell me you didn't know rich people could buy political influence? Surely none of Bush's campaign contributors were investment bankers...

Who do you think is going to manage the investing, somebody other than Wall Street? Do you think they'll do it for free? I don't think "all" of it is going to wall street, but they'll be getting billions more under Bush's plan.
They'd get billions under O'Neill's plan too, but it would be far cheaper for the government and for you, since it would require far less management and would pay out far more than Bush's plan or current SS.

Breson
You are right, it is a damned conspiracy!!!

Pataphysician
To be a conspiracy it would have to be secret, wouldn't it?
SnakeHead
QUOTE
Before you call me lazy based on your disagreement with my political ideals, I suggest you study your sources rather than just sniping surface statements


I didnít call you lazy because of your political Ideals, but rather because you seemed, up until this point unwilling to research, and cite the research to buttress the ideas you put forth. You also, in another thread appeared to refuse to do research on a particular topic discussed on this very forum. Those things justified the label in my opinion.

For your ideals, I would label you misinformed, or perhaps, if you earn the title, even a stupid redneck. It is not surprising however, that more republicans tend to be misinformed on key topics these days with the poor sources of "news" like Faux news and Rush Limburger that they tend to swallow hook-line-and-sinker. There are some very interesting studies done on this very topic, that have been posted here in the past, if you care to do the research.

Amusingly, the report you cite above after a brief review appears to support the argument that you were labeling inaccurate. Looking at the "blue" states they almost all had a greater tax burden than federal expenditure, with NJ getting only 57cents back on every dollar they are taxed, for example.


Jaded Prole
QUOTE
You are right, it is a damned conspiracy!!!


We don't need no stinkin' cornspiracy here in
Dumbfuckistan, that's South Dumbfuckistant to you, bwa'
Donnie Darko
QUOTE (Breson @ Feb 3 2005, 01:05 PM)
The crime statistics factor in crime at Colleges and Universities yet the population of these schools is not considered on the states cencus figures.

I read this sentence six times and I can't make heads or tails of it, nor can I deduce its relevance to what we are discussing.
Breson
Snake,

You seem to take great comfort in thinking that everything you read on the interent is
1. True
2. Unbiased

You embrace every bit of liberal horse shite you read to be true and every conservative thought you encounter to be either false or with some degree of malice involved. It is a sad state. As I mentioned before, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

As far as the tax report, read it, it is skewed. Although there is much more poverty in the South currently for lack of industry, the results are not indicative of personal taxes paid only. Read the same report you referenced, not the snippet, read the whole thing.

But here is some interesting reading on federal aid by state you might ,or might not be interested to review. I am sure if you disagree with it it must be poop.gif . The Cencus Bureau must have an agenda as well Cencus Bureau Per Capita Federal Aid By State

The crime report you referenced (fuck the south)was taken from Jet magazine. They wouldn't possibly have anything against any republican states or agenda would they? Although the statistics do prove out that the South as a group has more murders per capita, the Jet numbers are inflated over the actual statistics. And before you claim their agenda is pro minority, tell where were they when Condaleeza Rice was being attacked, or NOW for that matter? No where to be found as they are first pro democratic and democratic agenda however lame it may be. The actual statistics can be found FBI Murder Rates By State

I happen to think Rush Limbaugh is an asshole and don't listen to him. I do have my eyes wide open and make my own judgements.

And before you rush to judge me based on a disagreement, you might be lucky to be as dumb as this "stupid redneck"

I am sure we will have very little to agree on
Pataphysician
Condaleeza Rice was attacked because she is incompetent and a liar, not because she is black or a woman.
Donnie Darko
QUOTE (Breson @ Feb 3 2005, 03:47 PM)
The actual statistics can be found FBI Murder Rates By State

Thanks for posting that, as it confirms exactly what Snakehead's article was asserting: Southern states on average have the highest murder rates.
Breson
was only a small part of what the article was asserting

Snake's quote concerened federal allocations
Artemis
QUOTE
Read the whole thing at http://www.fuckthesouth.com/


No thanks. I can assure you that every dime of the money the Feds have taken from me was MY money, earned by MY work. Now if the asshole who wrote that drivel would have the balls to come and take it from me HIMSELF, if he really thinks it's his, rather than hiding behind the skirts of the IRS, well, that would be great fun.

I wonder what blue state fuckwads are going to eat if those red state rednecks withhold the fruits of their agriculture and ranching?
traineraz
I can't recall the last time I bought fruit/vegetable from any state other than California. And I'm in Arizona.

This time of year, a lot is from Peru or Chile.

I guess blue staters would eat food grown in blue states or Canada or South America or Mexico.

Incidentally, AZ has the same thing going on at the state level. The blue Pima county (where I am) pays out more in state taxes than is spent here by the state, and the red agricultural counties (and rapidly developing Maricopa County, around Phoenix and also known as the Great State of Maricopa) take in more than they pay.

How nice that even RED states have no problem redistributing wealth.
Breson
Well maybe for fresh produce as many countries have a large supply of "cheap produce pickers" and California is close to you.

But next time you put sugar in your coffee, enjoy some rice, or peanut butter, or pecans, put gas in your car (oh yes we still use US petroleum too),Enjoy the feel of cotton, enjoy a smoke (tobbacco, probably weed as well), Seafood, a shake of salt on your food, a glass of orange juice, or any decent lumber products, and the list goes on, that the south should go fuck off.
Please look at the cencus bureau data for a real picture of where the federal money goes
US Cencus State Rankings of Federal Allocations

The tax burden figures include corporate taxes paid and customs duties and are not a true reflection of personal taxes paid vs benefits received. Also any state, or area within a state, with a higher cost of living is going to put up better numbers.
Jaded Prole
Bush Lies about SSI

"Our society has changed in ways the founders of Social Security could not have foreseen. In today's world, people are living longer and therefore drawing benefits longer - and those benefits are scheduled to rise dramatically over the next few decades."


Unquestionably false.


In 1934... the actuaries predicted that the proportion of Americans over 65 -- then only 5.4 percent -- would rise to 12.65 percent in 1990... They were just a tad high; the actual figure would be 12.49 percent. [Emphasis added.]


Bush glossed a lot of details, but he did give at least one plain, specific fact on the numbers... I quote:


"By the year 2042, the entire system would be exhausted and bankrupt."


Horseshit. According to the Congressional Budget Office's authoritative numbers updated just last Monday: if absolutely nothing changes, benefits aren't even projected to begin declining until 2053, at which point (prepare to quake in mortal terror):

CBO finds that the benefits paid will be 22 percent lower than the scheduled benefits.

Bankrupt? Bankrupt? Bullshit. Even something as mainstream as CNN's Money section is now running a "Reality Check" article, politely saying Bush "may have overstated Social Security's problems," given that (in the exact words of the head numbers guy at the GAO) "the program will never go bust."

Personally, as someone who can't afford to invest, I'm thankful that SSI will be there, miniscule as the monthly payments will be.
Breson
w00t2.gif
QUOTE
Bankrupt? Bankrupt? Bullshit.


Expenditures exceeding revenue is indeed the quantifying situation for determining bankruptcy
Congressional Budget Office Projection Report on SS

Anyway, what is the problem with keeping some of your own money in a personal account??? Don't forget it is YOUR money. Are you afraid you will spend it foolishly? A handful of magic beans been catching your eye?

Do you think the government will do something better with it??? Maybe they can be like a parent and dole out allowance when they feel you are deserving..... Oh goody

For God's sake,,,paleeese

Whenever you are given the choice of controlling your own destiny or allowing someone else to do it,, GRAB THE WHEEL AND STEER!!

It truly amazes me with all the other things Dem's could be (and do)whine about this is such a big deal.

In effect it is your government saying "I trust you with your future", or a part of it anyway.

I am sure there must be a conspiracy somewhere within though *wink*
Jaded Prole
You're delusional. They have pills for that if you have insurance.

No one says you can't save as much as you want. SSI just makes sure that you'll have something no matter how your investments turn out. If most working people were given the money that would ordinarily go into SSI, they would have to (not "choose" to but haveto) spend it on bills, food, rent, their children . . . and then when they couldn't work due to age or infirmary, well, tough shit, right?

SSI is the most successfull program ever and the envy of those in countries that have gone the privatization route. It's worth firght for -- much more worth fighting for then the colonization of the middle east.
SnakeHead
Breson,
I applaud your research, so far every single source you have cited has confirmed what the "fuckthesouth" rant asserted. So far 3 for 3. Do you even read these things? Or are you secretly agreeing with me when you post them?

The CBO report on social security was something I had planned to look up today, as it leads into my next point, thanks for that one as well.

QUOTE
CBO projects that under current law Social Security outlays will first exceed revenues from payroll
taxes and taxation of benefits in 2020 and that the program will exhaust the trust funds in 2052.


Notice that the figure 2020 exceeds the figure the president used in his SOU speech by two years. Where is he getting his math done? This administration has been notoriously BAD at doing math, whether with number of terrorist attacks, Medicare costs, whatever. They constantly have to retract and revise numbers they have used to push legislation through.

The two year difference in this case is particularly interesting. You see for the last seven years, this projected date has move BACK (into the future) by two years every year. That means that every year social security looks like it is doing better. At this rate (using Bush's fuzzy math) in 2020 the solvency end date would be 2050 instead.

Keep in mind that Bush's changes to social security would take out 1/3 of the funds in it NOW, for a possible return 50 years in the future. His idea is insane, and really doesnít even begin to address the solvency issue.

Be informed, read the figures, UNDERSTAND the figures.

This must not pass.
Artemis
QUOTE
Whenever you are given the choice of controlling your own destiny or allowing someone else to do it,, GRAB THE WHEEL AND STEER!!


groupwave reversed.gif

That's contrary to the root of the Liberal creed.

Who's going to protect me from criminals?

SOMEBODY ELSE.

Who's going to fight the wars?

SOMEBODY ELSE.

Who's going to save for my retirement?

SOMEBODY ELSE.

Pay for my medicine?

SOMEBODY ELSE.

Who's responsible for my sorry state?

SOMEBODY ELSE. shock.gif

They let go of Momma's apron and grab on to Uncle Sam's. You're wasting your breath, Breson. The stench of Liberals is the worst thing about this forum.
But they feel safe here; it's not like they'd repeat that shit in the Dew Drop Inn in Possum Trot, Kentucky or anything, even if they saw a Highway 61 road sign from the passenger window of Mom's minivan once.
SnakeHead
Meaningless Rhetoric.

You might be surprised.

Someday perhaps I'll show you my scarred knuckles.
Jaded Prole
It's not "somebody else" it's 'each other." That's what we call civilization.
"Individualism" in the extreme is an illusion. Who made your clothes? "Somebody else". Who grew your food, who picked it, who drove it to the store -- somebody else. Who made the chair you're sitting on or the computer your using? guess.

Now if we share a little responsibility for each other it actually costs us each less and gives us a semblance of security when things don't go right. We are all responsible for ourselves but also for each other. We call it civil society -- it goes back all the way to the pleistocene and it's what makes us human. It beats the hell out of social darwinism.
Breson
QUOTE
Breson,
I applaud your research, so far every single source you have cited has confirmed what the "fuckthesouth" rant asserted. So far 3 for 3. Do you even read these things? Or are you secretly agreeing with me when you post them?


No snake, I actually READ THEM, not part of it, or snip a statement or two, I READ THE WHOLE THING. Give it a whirl. Other than the murder rate being higher down south, nothing else substantiates anything you have said.

QUOTE
Notice that the figure 2020 exceeds the figure the president used in his SOU speech by two years. Where is he getting his math done? This administration has been notoriously BAD at doing math, whether with number of terrorist attacks, Medicare costs, whatever. They constantly have to retract and revise numbers they have used to push legislation through.


AGAIN, READ THE WHOLE REPORT. 2020 is exactly the year that REVENUES ARE LESS THAN EXPENDITURES. Bush was exactly right. If my business expenditures exceed my revenues it too will be a failure. It isnt debatable it is just math. Blame the Ancient Chinese and that damned abacus.

And on this final note:

WAKE UP, THE REPUBLICANS WON

NOT ONLY THE PRESIDENCY BUT IN ALL LEVELS OF AMERICAN GOVERNMENT

America has rejected the Whineocratic reasoning.

We want to be in control of our own destiny. We don't want to support a large bloated Government. We aren't heartless but refuse to support programs that don't work. We want to feel safe and are willing to fight back when someone hits us. We are Americans, it is why we are here. The Brave and the Free.

Feel safe and be a majority in here. When you walk outside you won't be.

traineraz
QUOTE (Breson @ Feb 4 2005, 03:53 AM)
Well maybe for fresh produce as many countries have a large supply of "cheap produce pickers" and California is close to you.

But next time you put sugar in your coffee, enjoy some rice, or peanut butter, or pecans, put gas in your car (oh yes we still use US petroleum too),Enjoy the feel of cotton, enjoy a smoke (tobbacco, probably weed as well), Seafood, a shake of salt on your food, a glass of orange juice, or any decent lumber products, and the list goes on, that the south should go fuck off.
Please look at the cencus bureau data for a real picture of where the federal money goes
US Cencus State Rankings of Federal Allocations

The tax burden figures include corporate taxes paid and customs duties and are not a true reflection of personal taxes paid vs benefits received. Also any state, or area within a state, with a higher cost of living is going to put up better numbers.

First, I fail to understand how you can keep looking at Census Bureau pages (which must require typing URLs correctly) and keep spelling it "Cencus." blink.gif

Second, many of the products you mentioned (pecans, cotton, oranges) are produced right here in my blue county, and also in California. Lumber? Pacific NW -- Blue states. Seafood? Most coastal states are blue, not red. Out west here, we get mostly Pacific seafood. Sea salt? Again, most coastal states are blue, not red.

I don't think anyone has denied that red states produce products of value to everyone, and I doubt many seriously want to see secession. However, the attitudes expressed (don't take my money, but gimme gimme gimme) need to be addressed.

Taxes paid is taxes paid. Tax dollars spent is tax dollars spent. Whether people pay more because of a higher cost of living or not, they still pay more. However you care to slice it, revenues tend to leave the blue states and enter the red.
Donnie Darko
QUOTE (Jaded Prol @ Feb 4 2005, 09:07 AM)
It's not "somebody else" it's 'each other." That's what we call civilization. 
"Individualism" in the extreme is an illusion. Who made your clothes? "Somebody else". Who grew your food, who picked it, who drove it to the store -- somebody else. Who made the chair you're sitting on or the computer your using? guess.

Now if we share a little responsibility for each other it actually costs us each less and gives us a semblance of security when things don't go right. We are all responsible for ourselves but also for each other. We call it civil society -- it goes back all the way to the pleistocene and it's what makes us human. It beats the hell out of social darwinism.

What kind of namby pamby queer shit is that? I bet you're still wearing diapers sucking your thumb asking mommy to wipe your bottom, little momma's boy. Ha ha ha. If you can't afford to save for your own retirement, then you're a sissy.
Breson
I can't agree with Donnie twice in the same week.

Or can I? Bravo
traineraz
Donnie, I think you need to add that "sarcasm" emoticon. Your comments might go over the heads of some.
Donnie Darko
QUOTE (Breson @ Feb 4 2005, 09:12 AM)
If my business expenditures exceed my revenues it too will be a failure. It isnt debatable it is just math. Blame the Ancient Chinese and that damned abacus.

And yet you voted for the man who has created the largest defecit in history, and whose expenditures have exceeded his revenues more than any other President.

QUOTE
We don't want to support a large bloated Government.


And yet you voted for the man who passed NCLB, created the Department of Homeland Security, passed the Medicare Prescription Drug plan, and undertook two gigantic nation-building endeavours.

QUOTE
We want to feel safe and are willing to fight back when someone hits us.


And yet you voted for the guy who has utterly failed to capture or kill the very people that orchestrated the attacks against us.

QUOTE
feel safe and be a majority in here. When you walk outside you won't be.


The vast majority of my state and city voted for Kerry, so actually I will be in the majority when I walk outside.

QUOTE
We are Americans, it is why we are here. The Brave and the Free.


Your blind patriotism rivals that of those who elected Hitler. There isn't an ounce of substance to that Nationalistic RNC rhetoric you parrot.
SnakeHead
QUOTE
No snake, I actually READ THEM, not part of it, or snip a statement or two, I READ THE WHOLE THING. Give it a whirl. Other than the murder rate being higher down south, nothing else substantiates anything you have said.



I read them, and I understood.

Both of the Census articles back up the assertions in Fuckthesouth. Blue states pay more taxes, and red states get more federal dollars. The numbers are there, they are tabulated for you. Comprehend.

Do I really have to spell it out for you? Not one article you have cited yet backs up your arguments. Not one.

SnakeHead
QUOTE
Feel safe and be a majority in here. When you walk outside you won't be.


I feel safe wherever I go, whether its US61 and I90 in New Orleans (or inside Tipitinas for that matter), back home in Texas(mmm Threadgils), in good old Liberal NYC, or anywhere in between (including BFE Kentucky). I will however never be in the majority, as my intelligence, deductive ability and ability to comprehend and apply what I learn are all above the norm. Do I feel superior to millions of uneducated, misinformed Americans who voted against their own self interest?

Of course I do. I should.
Breson
QUOTE
Of course I do. I should


Too bad the politicians and bureaucrats, that think they know better what to do with your money than you, don't think so.

QUOTE
as my intelligence, deductive ability and ability to comprehend and apply what I learn are all above the norm


Aren't we special?
SnakeHead

More of my tax money gets spent in programs I support than those I do not. In fact, regardless of the fact that I have been helped by Bush's tax cuts, and unaffected by his budget cuts (or nearly so), I still would pay more in taxes to see more of my fellow Americans helped out. Anyone who bitches about paying taxes is being unpatriotic. It is one of the smallest things you can do to help your country.

Sorry, but you are, once again, wrong.
Breson
QUOTE
Sorry, but you are, once again, wrong


Ummmm,, no

But in your eyes I always will be. In any event, for once and all and slowly

The northeast especially, has a high percentage of corporations and ports that incur tax liability. These taxes are reported in the State's Tax roles making the figures skewed. It is more than John Doe paid $1 of tax and got .57 cents of benefit math involved. If John Doe paid $1 of tax but corporations and customs duties contributed another $1 then his .57 cents of benefit seems pretty small now doesnt it. There at this moment are very few boats unloading imports at ports in New Mexico or Mississippi or West Virginia. And if DC is considered part of the south, we will hurry up and draw up the papers to let you have it back.

Furthermore, a much higher percentage of evil wealthy people live in the Northeast as well. These damned financiers and industrialists further skew the tax roles. I will also remind you that the richest 10% of people(although inherently evil people) in this country pay 66% of all the tax collected. I guess that is what you get when you make a deal with the devil. Income Taxes by Class

Now also it is no mystery that taxes are compulated on a percentage basis. And to be sure that it is fair (although the Dems will constantly bitch anyway) people earning less will pay less. And yes, even these people that George Bush despises got a tax break. Areas with lower cost of living and also will have a lower tax payment per capita and generally less dense population. Yet these areas will still need highways, have military bases etc that indirectly benefit us all somehow. Maybe a much better judge who "who gets what" would be the amount that each person in a given area costs the government. Like the Census Bureau Figures found here Census Bureau

Now you yourself even said
QUOTE
I still would pay more in taxes to see more of my fellow Americans helped out. Anyone who bitches about paying taxes is being unpatriotic

Can you help a southern brother out? You might want to drive on a highway in Alabama to watch LSU Spank Alabama at Tuscaloosa one day. Who Knows

I am honored to pay my taxes. I have been afforded a wonderful opportunity that might only exist in this great country. That doesnt mean I will ignore a less expensive more efficient way of doing something.
Artemis
When I wrote "fruit" I meant in the sense of fruit of their labor.

This nation runs on corn. People don't eat the corn (most of it), but it feeds the animals that they do eat and milk, and it provides the syrup that sweetens all manner of food. Then there are the other grains ....

The last time I checked, corn is not grown in California. If I wanted a bloated strawberry, filled with nothing but air, California would be my shopping ground, too. But I can get GOOD strawberries from Louisiana (ditto oranges), and other fruit from Michigan, all of it better than anything out of California. Yes, Michigan is a blue state, but that's only because of the shithole known as Detroit, which should be immediately ceded to Canada.

If the arrogant fuckwads who say they have a right to redneck money were left to their own devices, they'd starve.
traineraz
Say, Breson, are you including the farm subsidies in your belief that money doesn't flow from blue to red?

If arrogant fuckwads want to play "independent" and say how bad welfare is, tell them to stop accepting farm subsidies. Welfare is welfare.
Jaded Prole
The "red state" "blues state" myth is really based in the winner take all count and a certain amount of gerrymandering. In most states the vote was actually pretty close. This is true in Ohoi, New Mexic and Florida too despite all kinds of crooked shenanigans.

It seems the country is really various shades of purple. I this is really to diametrically opposed countries, (and it might be in some ways) then we really live next door to each other more then in different regions.

Heck, we even like the same things as demonstrated by the mix here. While I vehemently disagree with Artemis and Breson politically, we all like absinthe and I respect Artemis's knowledge and opinion on that subject.

Let's just hope for his sake that he drinks a lot of it before he casts his next ballot and screws up in his own interest.
Breson
Conversely many blue states are very close as well. In my state the whole state was for Bush excepting 2 Counties surrounding Washington, DC and Baltimore.

Michigan as well was all Red exclusive of Detroit.

New York too.

California, hell all of them except maybe Vermont.

Repeat this pattern in every Blue State. The suburbs and rural areas as a rule vote Republican and the cities vote Democratic.

Trainer, look at the chart of per capita expenditures. A higher percentage of wealthy people in the Northeast skew these numbers as they pay a disproportionate share of the taxes and require virtually no government assitance. How many of the top 10% of wage earners do you think voted for Kerry? According to the flaming liberals on this board, somehow all the top 10 percenters are all due some sneeky windfall from George Bush. After all we are the ones that snuck him into office. I am still waiting for my Bush payoff check to arrive. Maybe I should be the one bitching about what states my taxes end up in?

And I do love absinthe and will be glad to share a drink with any of you even knowing you will vote incorrectly. Although I am buying Artemis his first few drinks.
Jaded Prole
As if the recruiting of new terrorists by Bush's wars, the dismemberment of the safety net, and the shredding of the Bill of Rights weren't enough, now there's this!
Breson
That is the threat I worry about more often than any turban wearers
hobgoblin
QUOTE (Breson @ Feb 6 2005, 05:16 PM)
...I worry about more often than any turban wearers

That's quite an ignorant statement. How many of the Muslims that you come into contact with wear turbans? As a rule very few Muslims wear turbans, most usually wear a topi (and most only wear it when going to the Mosque). A brown skinned turban wearer is likely to be a Sikh (although unfortunately I know Sikhs who've had abuse hurled at them in the streets over 9/11).
Jaded Prole
One might as well blame the Dutch. Part of the problem that allows Americans to virulently hate anyone on a moments' notice is the general ignorance that pervades our culture. Another is that we are not sceptical enough of what we're told by those in power, especially when one considers their record for giving misinformation.
grey boy
Cripes,
though I lean fairly left,
Lefties need a sense of humor!

Breson was making a joke for Christs sake!
Donnie Darko
QUOTE (Artemis @ Feb 5 2005, 07:46 AM)
If the arrogant fuckwads who say they have a right to redneck money were left to their own devices, they'd starve.

I appreciate the corn that is grown by Bush voters in Indiana, and I appreciate the cheese & milk that comes from Kerry voters in Vermont.

What I don't appreciate is self-centered Americans begrudging every tax penny they pay, assuming that taxes serve no purpose other than to keep some single black mother on welfare and foodstamps. We as Americans pay less in taxes/service fees to the government than any other First World country, and your man Bush already pushed through more tax-cuts, so why is there still all this incessant complaining? Thanks to his tax-cuts and expensive wars, they're now choosing to cut all those horrible society hurting programs like education, environment and public transportation expenditures. Conservatives should be partying in the streets, and yet all we hear is boo-hoo it's my money waa waa waa.

And yes Detroit should be ceded to Canada, because then they would enjoy the social services & better schools the people across the way in Windsor enjoy. Might as well give General Motors to Canada too, since Detroit is so worthless..
traineraz
w00t2.gif Check out the new Bushie Budget?

Cuts to FARM SUBSIDIES! ! ! harhar.gif

Poor red state rednecks, cut off their own noses to spite their faces.

Sure, it'll never get past Congress, but still . . .
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2018 Invision Power Services, Inc.