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The Fée Verte Absinthe Forum - The Oldest, Largest, Most Authoritative Absinthe Forum. > Absinthe & Absinthiana > Vintage Absinthe
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jmfranc
After drinking the samples of Pernod preban (1900 - 1910) I started thinking just how rare it is - and it fits the definition of rarity to a "T". Then I thought, well, in 1910 absinthe was over 100 years old - does any of that exist and if so, did anyone on this forum ever get to sample a 200 year old preban?

When you think of how long 100 years is, it's about 1/3 to 1/4 of the history of America. America hasn't been around that long compared to London or Paris. Amazes me that this bottle of Pernod's destiny since 1900 was to be opened by me, in 2005. That bottle predates my grandfather..... I almost feel bad that I opened it. Feel almost...unworthy. But, I'd LOVE to open a bottle that's 200 years old. Anyone every done it? tongue.gif

Anyone have any good pictures of 200 year old bottles? Curious how they look...
AndrewT
I'd imagine 200 year old absinthe probably doesn't exist in this reality anymore. I think the oldest I've heard about is 1890s, but I could be wrong. 1850s might exist somewhere, or have recently existed, but I'm sure Oxy could clear that kind of thing up.

As for the age of America, I came to a somewhat startling realization a while ago- I was born 5 years after the bicentennial. If I live to be 95, that will be the tricentennial, and will mean that I've lived through almost 1/3 of America's history as a nation. Creepy.
jmfranc
QUOTE (AndrewT @ May 14 2005, 02:06 PM)
I'd imagine 200 year old absinthe probably doesn't exist

There has to be cellars that were started in the early 1800's that have some. Restaurants? New Orleans plantation owners were known for stocking themselves up with the finest around. There has to be some around. Lost
, buried, unlabeled, something.


Symbiote
They've found older wine in basements and grottos in Italy. They probably exist... somewhere.
AndrewT
The difference being that wine has been popular since the Ancient Greeks, and probably before then. Absinthe, as far as I can tell from reading, didn't get immensely popular until the 1850s. I think it'd be something like the equivalent of storing some Zima to save, even though it's new and not very popular. Not that I think Zima will ever be as popular (or as good) as absinthe, but it was the closest metaphor I could think of.

Of course, I could be completely wrong as well, and I hope that I am. But I don't think people were saving their absinthe back then. Or if they did, they already sold it for a tidy profit before the ban.
Lord Stanley
Or for a tidier profit after the ban.
Symbiote
Good points.
jmfranc
QUOTE (AndrewT @ May 14 2005, 04:00 PM)
Of course, I could be completely wrong as well, and I hope that I am. But I don't think people were saving their absinthe back then. Or if they did, they already sold it for a tidy profit before the ban.

True. We probably won't see a bottle surface older than 1850. Any pictures of the older bottles? Haven't been able to track down any good ones. Would the cork even exist after 200 years? I opened a bottle that was 100 years old and the cork was falling apart from the inside. The crud held it in place, air-tight.

morgueann
Oh Djar Djar, you're quite the distinguished one.
Brett
QUOTE (AndrewT @ May 14 2005, 01:00 PM)
The difference being that wine has been popular since the Ancient Greeks, and probably before then. Absinthe, as far as I can tell from reading, didn't get immensely popular until the 1850s. I think it'd be something like the equivalent of storing some Zima to save, even though it's new and not very popular. Not that I think Zima will ever be as popular (or as good) as absinthe, but it was the closest metaphor I could think of.

Of course, I could be completely wrong as well, and I hope that I am. But I don't think people were saving their absinthe back then. Or if they did, they already sold it for a tidy profit before the ban.

Zima is new?
Brett
I thought the first commercial distillery for absinthe was founded in 1805? So wouldn't a 200 year old bottle be very rare?
Oxygenee
Very little pre-1900 absinthe survives, because it simply wasn't the type of drink stored in aristocratic private cellars, and commercial establishments rotated their stock constantly, keeping only current bottlings.

The Pontarlier Museum has a Parrot Freres bottle from 1889, part of a case owned by a Pontarlier resident. They also have an extremely early Absinthe Duval bottle, with a claimed date of 1820. I don't know of anyone who has tasted absinthe this old, but there is really no reason to expect that it would taste dramatically different from circa 1910 bottles.

The oldest wine I've drunk was a 215 year old bottle of 1787 Madeira - made before the French Revolution, when Mozart was still alive. To drink it was an emotionally overwhelming experience. It was quite magnificant, still fresh, with easily another century of life still in it.
AndrewT
ohmy.gif

And those two on the left are stil sealed? That's pretty incredible.
Oxygenee
Yes, still sealed, but left standing upright on display under lights, which doesn't auger well for the contents long term.
Symbiote
QUOTE (morgueann @ May 14 2005, 10:30 PM)
Oh Djar Djar, you're quite the disgusting one.

You trying to pick me up?

Oxy, I envy you for such a thing. shock.gif
tabreaux
QUOTE (Oxygenee @ May 15 2005, 08:28 AM)
Yes, still sealed, but left standing upright on display under lights, which doesn't auger well for the contents long term.

And with the Duval bottle displaying significant ullage as well.

Here's a different perspective (sorry about the glare).

user posted image


BTW, Emile Pernot is the successor to Parrot Fils, who apparently succeeded Parrot-Freres (depicted in the photo), who according to the label, were the successors to one of the Duvals.
jmfranc
QUOTE (tabreaux @ May 15 2005, 12:00 PM)
And with the Duval bottle displaying significant ullage as well.

What's the oldest you've tried? I've only had one and it was a 1900 - 1910 Pernod Edouard.
AndrewT
I don't suppose they'd let you take a sample out of those to recreate? You know, for posterity... Yeah, that's the ticket...
tabreaux
I've obtained samples from various bottles, not all of which I could reliably date. The earliest sample I can verify was drawn from an E. Pernod bottle from the 'Couvet' era with early label, which places it circa 1880s or earlier. I seem to recall seeing an early Pernod Fils at 75%, that appeared to be 1850s or earlier.

As far as a sample, even a few drops would be revealing with enough diligence.
Artemis
QUOTE
As far as a sample, even a few drops would be revealing with enough diligence.


Come on now, Dr. O (the original one) could whip up something mo betta mo bitta in a chamber pot.
morgueann
He and Kyle Bairnsfather.
jmfranc
QUOTE (tabreaux @ May 15 2005, 12:51 PM)
As far as a sample, even a few drops would be revealing with enough diligence.

You don't think that at the museum they may of had one or two that were opened at some point? It's only a few drops, right? They might be interested in what you come up with....get a syringe with a 6 inch needle and slip it in....10ml would end up making a lot of people happy... including the museum. Just a thought....
Wormwoody
QUOTE (jmfranc @ May 16 2005, 08:28 AM)
You don't think that at the museum they may of had one or two ...

No. But perhaps they may have had one or two.
jmfranc
QUOTE (Wormwoody @ May 16 2005, 11:47 AM)
QUOTE (jmfranc @ May 16 2005, 08:28 AM)
You don't think that at the museum they may of had one or two ...

No. But perhaps they may have had one or two.

Are you the official grammer check for every post on this forum? Must be time consuming...
G&C
He's just filling in for Sixer.
traineraz
QUOTE (jmfranc @ May 16 2005, 10:08 AM)
Are you the official grammer check for every post on this forum?

Grammer?
user posted image
jmfranc
Ever make it to the second floor of the Pharmacy Museum? Big section devoted to Absinthe in New Orleans - preban bottles, glasses, spoons, advertisements, and even some VERY OLD pharmacy bottles that stored medical absinthe....
Artemis
The absinthe section must be new - it wasn't there some years ago - now I have to go there again.

http://www.beautyandruin.com/absinthe/arch...perdu_or_d.html
Greenmeanie
QUOTE (Oxygenee @ May 15 2005, 08:52 AM)
I don't know of anyone who has tasted absinthe this old, but there is really no reason to expect that it would taste dramatically different from circa 1910 bottles.


SHHH!! Don't say that so LOUD!


doctor-o.jpg
sixela
QUOTE (jmfranc @ May 16 2005, 08:08 PM)
Are you the official grammer check for every post on this forum?

No, I am, and hereby certify you as a true "grammer".

Check.
Greenmeanie
Grammer™!
AndrewT
I don't think you can trademark that, it's one of the most commonly used things on the internet.
thegreenimp
QUOTE (jmfranc @ May 16 2005, 04:36 PM)
Ever make it to the second floor of the Pharmacy Museum? Big section devoted to Absinthe in New Orleans - preban bottles, glasses, spoons, advertisements, and even some VERY OLD pharmacy bottles that stored medical absinthe....

If the display hasn't been changed recently, the 1940's to mid 1950's Herbsaint bottle is somewhat later than preban era.


jmfranc
QUOTE (thegreenimp @ May 16 2005, 10:38 PM)
If the display hasn't been changed recently, the 1940's to mid 1950's Herbsaint bottle is somewhat later than preban era.

They have added bottles of Pernod that look very similar to the one I had. Why did they have a big label across the bottom that read GREEN? Was it a clasification? Or simply because of color / clear?
hartsmar
jm...

Remember, what you have is Edouard Pernod. Not Pernod Edouard.
It's not a "brand" of Pernod Fils.

Just for the record.

The bottle at the museum may very well be a Pernod, what do I know, I haven't been there...
Jack Batemaster
Be nice now, Hartsmar! I tried JM's preban. It reminded me (and many others) of maple syrup. Some say it's the coriander, but I don't know. I am just hoping to see more samples of preban out there so I can gain more tasting experience.
hartsmar
But it is two entirely different brands. So to avoid confusion, I figured it be better to sort it out.

Maple syrup!? Hmmmm.
Greenmeanie
QUOTE (AndrewT @ May 16 2005, 09:19 PM)
I don't think you can trademark that, it's one of the most commonly used things on the internet.

Damn! Gone the way of Kleenex™ and Xerox™.
G&C
QUOTE
It reminded me (and many others) of maple syrup.

I would say the aroma was closer to Raisin Jack.
Absomphe
Maple syrup?

So does Sam Adams Triple Bock...

A little maple goes a long way, but if it was a strong, concentrated flavor, I wouldn't have liked it much.
jmfranc
QUOTE (Absomphe @ May 17 2005, 09:45 AM)
A little maple goes a long way, but if it was a strong, concentrated flavor, I wouldn't have liked it much.

Is it the age of the liquid making it so thick? It's like milk....

Didn't taste too much maple but I did taste the strong coriander in the finish.

Anyone want to answer this question:


Why did they have a big label across the bottom that read GREEN? Was it a clasification? Or simply because of color vs clear?
Deluge
I did not detect any hint of maple in the samples that had I received. Hmm?

To answer your question JM, the Green label on the bottle was placed to differentiate the Pernod Fils Verte and Blanche. Domestic bottles read "GREEN" and "WHITE". Hope this helps!

user posted image

Image found at www.absinthe-haus.com which is Tuivel's site.
hartsmar
Yes, Deluge is right, it was to distinguish the vertes from the blanches. But it's STILL AN EDOUARD! NOT A PERNOD!

harhar.gif

Grim
Hey Jim, if I recall correctly, your bottle also included a United States patent number and date of patent near or on the "Green" label (Edouard, not P.F.)... if you don't mind, what were they again? This is the bottle with the vintage scotch tape, right? harhar.gif
jmfranc
QUOTE (monsieurgrim @ May 17 2005, 12:05 PM)
Hey Jim, if I recall correctly...

The US Patent number is ....... 11283, 24th June, 1884
Jack Batemaster
That happens to be my Birthday!

LARS!.gif
Absomphe
You've got WAY too much hair for a 121 year old, dude.
jacal01
Attached to his hat and shades.
Jaded Prole
QUOTE
That happens to be my Birthday!


Scary! Mine is the 25th.

Good thing I don't believe in astrology!
audiowebguy
You and me both, JP. abs-cheers.gif
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