I have a poster written in Schwyzerdütsch that I need translated into English for my Virtual Museum. It's about a closely typed A4 page of actual text.

Any volunteers? As always all help will be fully credited on the completed page.

I can give it a try, it's been a while but I should be able to make some sense of it. Just sent me what you've got.

Sorry, just Hoch Deutch here.

I've put the poster and an enlarged version of the text portion up on a temporary page here. I appreciate all offers, but I speak reasonable German myself, so I already have the gist of it. What I'm looking for ideally, is an exact and accurate translation.

If only my grandparents used the internet. My German can't decifer that shit. I know my grandparents speak Alt-Deutsch and Schwyzerdütsch, but alas all I speak is modern Deutsch.

Oxy, if you dont have any luck on this forum, try one of the german speaking forums.

http://www.absinth-guide.de/forum/ is the only one that i've been to, but they seem rather helpful there.

Nice poster. I notice they're using grilles instead of spoons.

Thanks to the kindness of Grey Boy, who roped in a Schwyzerdütsch speaking friend of his to help, I have a draft translation. I'll edit it, and get it posted over the weekend.

QUOTE (Hiram @ Jul 12 2005, 11:29 PM)

Nice poster. I notice they're using grilles instead of spoons.

It tends to support what I've always thought: grilles were a largely Swiss thing, far more common there than they were in France.

The museum at Motiers btw, has an absinthe fountain very similar to the one shown on the poster:

For those interested, here is the translation so far. There are some words and phrases that still need work, but you'll get the general idea:

QUOTE

Federal Vote  5 July, 1908 Honored Confederates! Honored Fellow Citizens from every Canton, of every color! Because of a couple of extravagant (?) guys, a law arose last year in Geneva against Absinthe. A law about which every true, free Swiss should be ashamed. Now those blasted (people paid by the hour?) believe that they can force through such a law in the whole of Switzerland. What would our old freedom fighters like Tell, Winkelried, like the heroes from Morgarten, Sempach, Laupen, Murten, and so forth actually have said if someone had told them they could only drink milk and herbal water (tea). Yes, and it will come to that if you let yourselves be shackled you dear people, and want to ban Absinthe in our dear old Switzerland. Not only every schnapps does one (do they) want to steal from you, but, with time wine and beer. They – the hypocrites – say it isn’t true, but we found it printed in black and white, in a report from the Old-Good-Templar, page 28. There, D’Herco from Lausanne, states with absolute clarity: The ban on Absinthe will only have a weak effect on alcoholism in general. We are striving for in the distant future to abolish all alcoholic drinks, wine and beer included. It is but a beginning… Yes, yes, you sneaks, you won’t come to your goal so quickly, we want to bar you from it from the beginning. What would you say if we came to you and would ban your tea and praying? Worry about yourselves and leave us in peace, then all will go well; until now it has always gone badly when you have meddled. And then there’s yet a more important thing, the great murders, Ravaillac, Caserio, and so forth, did they once have a glass of absinthe? NEVER. No you pious ones, you hypocrites, for a long time absinthe hasn’t wrought unhappiness and misfortune in the family and the world, like the poison (no idea what that refers to, unless it’s referring to the ideas they were disseminating) you have already spread in every place, that we didn’t expect and didn’t want. On the contrary, everywhere you’ve been and have taken charge, one wishes to get rid of you and see you with the devil. Yes, go to the devil with your tea, there it will at least stay warm, but we use cold water with absinthe, how the lord God gave it to us. So, all you Confederates stand up, as one man and vote on Sunday with a strong NO, if you want to be sure in later years not only absinthe but also want to be able to drink a flask of wine or a fresh stein of beer, and whoever doesn’t like that should go look in another country whether he gets anywhere with tea and sugarwater. We vote however NO and once again NO not only for absinthe but for our freedom and want to be men who know how to conduct themselves. Because of a couple of drunks they want to punish all of us, we want to be left to live life the way we see fit (the way we find it good, literally). In closing, we drink a mighty swallow (gulp, drink), whether it is absinthe, vermouth, wine or beer, a drink to the wellbeing of everyone, and to our dear freedom.

...and one more thing: the Motiers museum has an almost identical poster, but in the local French patois, rather than Schwyzerdütsch. The interesting thing, is that the text is completely different - an early example of focus group based marketing it seems.

Not that it did them any good in the end unfortunately.

That's the sort of rhetoric I like to see applied to the prohibitionists - fuck off and die, suckers!

QUOTE

Schwyzerdütsch speakers?

I thought that this was a thread about German stereo equipment.



Really.

Wow! What a brilliant poster! Some say "Don't Mess With Texas", but after that poster, I'd have to say "Don't Fuck with Swiss Booze!"

I love this quote:

QUOTE

What would you say if we came to you and would ban your tea and praying? Worry about yourselves and leave us in peace, then all will go well; until now it has always gone badly when you have meddled.

A compelling plea...too bad it didn't work.

extravagant = ambitious, zealous?
blasted = reactionaries, bureaucrats?

QUOTE (Oxygenee @ Jul 12 2005, 11:03 PM)

For those interested, here is the translation so far. Because of a couple of extravagant (?) guys,

I'd think that the original's "überspannte" denotes someone who makes a very big fuzz out of nothing. I think "zealous" is better than "extravagant", but that may still sound a bit too positive. Pretty much the same word exists in danish, and it's a purely negative one; from the context, it seems to have a similar meaning here. It borders to "hysterical", which might be considered as a translation.

QUOTE (Lord Stanley @ Jul 12 2005, 04:17 PM)

QUOTE Schwyzerdütsch speakers? I thought that this was a thread about German stereo equipment. Really.

So did I, to be honest.

QUOTE (Oxygenee @ Jul 12 2005, 11:03 PM)

Now those blasted (people paid by the hour?)

No - the original's "Stündeler" is a south-german/swiss word for a very pious person. Someone who devotes himself to "Bibel-stunde", litteraly "Bible hours".

Thanks Gertz for those very useful comments - any further suggestions on tweaking the translation would be much appreciated!



And my apologies for disappointing all you audiophiles out there....

Here's a revised version. I've occasionally used a slightly looser translation in the interests of readability:

QUOTE

Federal Vote  5 July, 1908 Honored Confederates! Honored Fellow Citizens from every Canton, of every color! Due to a handful of zealots, a law was passed last year in Geneva against absinthe. A law about which every true, free Swiss citizen should be ashamed. Now these damn bible-punchers believe that they can force through a similar law in the whole of Switzerland. What would our old freedom fighters like Tell and Winkelried, like the heroes of Morgarten, Sempach, Laupen, Murten and so forth, actually have said if someone had told them they could only drink milk and herbal tea? And it will come to that dear people if you let yourselves be shackled, and let them ban Absinthe in our beloved old Switzerland. Not only do they want to deny you your schnapps, but with time your wine and your beer as well. They – these hypocrites – say this isn’t true, but we found it printed in black and white, in a report from Alt-Gut-Templer, page 28. There, Dr Herco from Lausanne, states unambiguously: The ban on Absinthe will only have a mild effect on alcoholism in general. What we are striving for in the distant future is to abolish all alcoholic drinks, wine and beer included. It is but a beginning… Yes, yes, you sneaks, you won’t achieve your goal so quickly: we want to bar you from achieving it from the beginning. What would you say if we came to you and wanted to ban your tea and prayers? Worry about yourselves and leave the rest of us in peace, then all will be well; until now it has always gone badly whenever you have meddled. And then there’s yet another important thing: the great murderers, Ravaillac, Caserio, and so forth, did they even once have a glass of absinthe? NEVER. No you pious hypocrites, for a long time absinthe hasn’t wrought nearly as much unhappiness and misfortune in the family and in the world as the poisonous ideas you have already spread in every place, that we didn’t expect and didn’t want. On the contrary, everywhere you’ve been and have taken charge, people want to get rid of you and wish you’d go to hell. Yes, go to the devil with your tea, there it will at least stay warm, but we use cold water with absinthe, just as the lord God gave it to us. So, all you Swiss citizens, please stand up as one man and vote on Sunday with a firm NO, if you want to be sure in later years not only of your absinthe but also want to be able to drink a flask of wine or a fresh stein of beer, and whoever doesn’t like that should go find another country and see if he gets anywhere there with tea and sugar-water. We however will vote NO and once again NO, not only for absinthe but for our freedom, and because we are men who know how to conduct themselves. Because of a couple of drunks they want to punish all of us, we want to be left to live life the way we see fit. In closing, we drink a mighty draught, whether it is absinthe, vermouth, wine or beer, a drink to the wellbeing of everyone, and to our dear freedom.

If there are further suggestions on the translation, I'd be happy to hear them.

I have two remaining questions:

I'm not happy with the translation of "vo alle Farbe" (from the headline) as "of every colour" or "of all colours". This can't refer to ethnicity in the modern sense. So does it refer to the cantonal colours? Or does it have another possible meaning in Southern/Swiss German? Perhaps one of the German speaking forumites can help.

Secondly: The phrase:

QUOTE

....we found it printed in black and white, in a report from Alt-Gut-Templar, page 28. There, D’Herco from Lausanne, states unambiguously: The ban on Absinthe....

puzzles me. Alt-Gut-Templar is an odd title for a book, and I can't find a reference to someone called Dr Herco either. Any help on this would also be appreciated.

The reference to the "the great murderers Ravaillac (and) Caserio" is to two notorious devoutly religious assassins who both came to sticky ends.

Courtesy of Wikipedia:

QUOTE

François Ravaillac (1578 – May 27, 1610) was the killer of Henry IV of France. He was born at Touvre, near Angoulême. He was of undistinguished origins and began life as a servant, but later became a school teacher. Highly religious, he sought admission to the Feuillants order, but after a short probation he was dismissed as he was prey to visions. An application for admission to the Society of Jesus was unsuccessful in 1606. In 1609 he had a vision telling him to convince Henry to convert the Huguenots. Unable to meet with the king he interpreted the king's decision to invade the Netherlands as the start of a war against the Pope. Determined to stop the king he decided to kill him. He carried out the act on May 14, 1610, stabbing the king to death on the Rue de la Ferronnerie in Paris (now south of the Forum des Halles). He was immediately seized and taken to the Hôtel de Retz, to avoid a mob lynching, before being transferred to the Conciergerie. In the course of his trial he was frequently put to the torture, but denied that he had been prompted by any one or had any accomplices. On May 27 he was taken to the Place de Grève and there was tortured before being dispatched by being pulled apart by four horses. Alistair Horne describes his torture: "Before being drawn and quartered, . . . he was scalded with burning sulphur, molten lead and boiling oil and resin, his flesh then being torn by pincers." His parents were forced into exile and the rest of his family was ordered to never use the name Ravaillac.

and

QUOTE

Sante Jeronimo Caserio (Motta Visconti Lombardy Italy, 1873- Lyons France, 18 June 1894) was a Italian anarchist, assassin of Marie Francois Sadi Carnot, President of the French Third Republic. He was executed by guillotine.

My friend who worked on the original translation provided the following clarifications, hope it helps.

QUOTE

I think "of every color" means every walk of life in Swiss, you'll note that all strata of Swiss male society are represented at the absinthe trough. It isn't Dr Herco, it's the last name of someone who wrote "The Good Old Templar": d'Herco. Templars were semi-religious, so it must be some sort of Calvinist evangelical publication. PS There are chapters of an organization called the "Old Good Templar" or "Good Old Templar." It's some sort of lodge, especially popular among German and Dutch areas of NY and PA.

Thanks for the extra feedback. Actually it is Dr (with a small superscript "r") Herco - it's unclear on the photo, but I checked on the original. I can't find a reference to him anywhere.

I also can't find any reference at all on Google to an organisation called "Alt-Gut-Templer" or "Old Good Templars". It reads as the title of a book in the original, but again I can find no mention of it, not even in the Karlsruhe catalogue which covers all the German, Austrian, French and Swiss national libraries.

I see what you mean about the Dr.
I'll pass along your thoughts and see if he can uncover anything.

QUOTE (Oxygenee @ Jul 13 2005, 09:35 AM)

Here's a revised version. I've occasionally used a slightly looser translation in the interests of readability: QUOTE Federal Vote  5 July, 1908 Honored Confederates! Honored Fellow Citizens from every Canton, of every color! Due to a handful of zealots, a law was passed last year in Geneva against absinthe. A law about which every true, free Swiss citizen should be ashamed. Now these damn bible-punchers believe that they can force through a similar law in the whole of Switzerland. What would our old freedom fighters like Tell and Winkelried, like the heroes of Morgarten, Sempach, Laupen, Murten and so forth, actually have said if someone had told them they could only drink milk and herbal tea? And it will come to that dear people if you let yourselves be shackled, and let them ban Absinthe in our beloved old Switzerland. Not only do they want to deny you your schnapps, but with time your wine and your beer as well. They – these hypocrites – say this isn’t true, but we found it printed in black and white, in a report from Alt-Gut-Templer, page 28. There, Dr Herco from Lausanne, states unambiguously: The ban on Absinthe will only have a mild effect on alcoholism in general. What we are striving for in the distant future is to abolish all alcoholic drinks, wine and beer included. It is but a beginning… Yes, yes, you sneaks, you won’t achieve your goal so quickly: we want to bar you from achieving it from the beginning. What would you say if we came to you and wanted to ban your tea and prayers? Worry about yourselves and leave the rest of us in peace, then all will be well; until now it has always gone badly whenever you have meddled. And then there’s yet another important thing: the great murderers, Ravaillac, Caserio, and so forth, did they even once have a glass of absinthe? NEVER. No you pious hypocrites, for a long time absinthe hasn’t wrought nearly as much unhappiness and misfortune in the family and in the world as the poisonous ideas you have already spread in every place, that we didn’t expect and didn’t want. On the contrary, everywhere you’ve been and have taken charge, people want to get rid of you and wish you’d go to hell. Yes, go to the devil with your tea, there it will at least stay warm, but we use cold water with absinthe, just as the lord God gave it to us. So, all you Swiss citizens, please stand up as one man and vote on Sunday with a firm NO, if you want to be sure in later years not only of your absinthe but also want to be able to drink a flask of wine or a fresh stein of beer, and whoever doesn’t like that should go find another country and see if he gets anywhere there with tea and sugar-water. We however will vote NO and once again NO, not only for absinthe but for our freedom, and because we are men who know how to conduct themselves. Because of a couple of drunks they want to punish all of us, we want to be left to live life the way we see fit. In closing, we drink a mighty draught, whether it is absinthe, vermouth, wine or beer, a drink to the wellbeing of everyone, and to our dear freedom. If there are further suggestions on the translation, I'd be happy to hear them. I have two remaining questions: I'm not happy with the translation of "vo alle Farbe" (from the headline) as "of every colour" or "of all colours". This can't refer to ethnicity in the modern sense. So does it refer to the cantonal colours? Or does it have another possible meaning in Southern/Swiss German? Perhaps one of the German speaking forumites can help. Secondly: The phrase: QUOTE ....we found it printed in black and white, in a report from Alt-Gut-Templar, page 28. There, D’Herco from Lausanne, states unambiguously: The ban on Absinthe.... puzzles me. Alt-Gut-Templar is an odd title for a book, and I can't find a reference to someone called Dr Herco either. Any help on this would also be appreciated.

"vo alle Farbe" might be understand in the context of historic banners. "Carry banners" or "carry colours".

Nowadays I would interpreted it as "from all political directions".

A very straight, nice text, indeed!

"Guttempler" were an Antialcohol organisation in the 19th century. This is not a book or so. Alt = old.

The sentence means:
You can clearly read it on page 28 in the report of the old good templar d'Herco from Lausanne...

D'Herco is a very strange Name in Switzerland.
I think it means "Dr Herco"

Dr. HercO???

QUOTE (Huitzilopochtli @ Jul 13 2005, 06:58 PM)

D'Herco is a very strange Name in Switzerland. I think it means "Dr Herco"

Yes,
close inspection of the poster by Oxy confirms that.

QUOTE

"Guttempler" were an Antialcohol organisation in the 19th century.

Apparently, in the 21st century as well:

http://www.iogt.ch/

Now it gets scary - even puppies open their eyes after some time in the world, but prohibitionist assholes stay blind forever:

http://www.alkoholpolitik.ch/forschue/forsch23.htm

and some other history:

http://www.sgw.hs-magdeburg.de/data/Biba.pdf

That last document has an extensive bibliography, including Duplais

Here's another, that seems to say something about the grünen fee:

http://www.guttempler-nds.de/BB_11.pdf

I found all this by searching on "guttempler" plus "absinthe".

Why wouldn't you use the phrase Bible-thumpers instead of Bible-punchers? It's more the common idiom, at least in America, and is actually in Webster's that way.

Don't know,
Um, maybe cuz it ain't an American text?
Nor modern.
Let's put it in a centrifuge and find out why.

I think it's a great text, and I can see lots of parallels looking at the present and what he said then. In some ways, things have not changed alot. The same kind of people with the same kinds of beliefs live in todays world on both sides. Funny how much things change but stay the same. I enjoyed reading this, but then again, I like history.

You're right Jacal01, bible-thumpers is more usual. I'll change it.

Thanks for the references Artemis.

There's absolutely no reference to an author called Herco anywhere, but I think the one text referenced by Artemis illuminates the mystery:

There are many bibliographical references to a temperance author called Robert Hercod. His books are all printed in Lausanne, so it's clearly the same person. Since his other books listed were all published after 1908 - the date of the poster - the book referred to is probably Hercod’s "Schweizerisches Taschenbuch für Alkoholgegner", published in Lausanne in 1905

The one brief reference to him I can find describes him as a Suisse Romand who ran the "Secretariat anti-alcoolique Suisse" from 1905 to 1921.

Either the final "d" was ommitted in error on the poster, or leaving it off is a Schwyzerdütsch thing.

Problem solved!

QUOTE (Oxygenee @ Jul 13 2005, 10:52 PM)

Either the final "d" was ommitted in error on the poster, or leaving it off is a Schwyzerdütsch thing.

I'm quite sure, that the "D" is not there, because there is no real ortography in Schwyzerdütsch.

If you pronounce Hercod how it should - French - you can't hear the "D".

So it's obvious, that they wrote Herco.

QUOTE (Artemis @ Jul 13 2005, 05:41 PM)

QUOTE "Guttempler" were an Antialcohol organisation in the 19th century. Apparently, in the 21st century as well: http://www.iogt.ch/

Damn you. I was just about to make that very remark.

Swedish IOGT... http://www.iogt-nto.se/

International IOGT: http://www.iogt.org/

Edit: This whole thing actually pulled up a few other interesting things such as this for one. http://womhist.binghamton.edu/wctu/doc3.htm
A bit down one paragraph reads;

QUOTE

A victory for temperance has been won this past year by the act prohibiting the importation, manufacture and sale of absinthe in the United States.[G] Absinthe is one of the most intoxicating drugs that is sold as a beverage. It is an alcoholic liquor containing oils of wormwood, anise and so forth. Its free use has been confined to France but other countries have been greatly affected by it. Belgium, Holland and Switzerland have passed laws forbidding its manufacture, sale and importation. And the Senate of France has now taken similar action, and also Brazil. The law in the United States becomes effective after October first.

Edit 2: Here are a couple of more links touching this subject.
http://lex.izynews.de/lex/Abstinenzverein
http://lex.izynews.de/de_l/Absinth

QUOTE (Artemis @ Jul 13 2005, 05:47 PM)

Now it gets scary - even puppies open their eyes after some time in the world, but prohibitionist assholes stay blind forever: http://www.alkoholpolitik.ch/forschue/forsch23.htm and some other history: http://www.sgw.hs-magdeburg.de/data/Biba.pdf

Whoa!

A german site "partypack.de" lists Absinth as a separate "substance" instead of simply considering it alcohol. Do the translation yourself, here it is: http://www.partypack.de/inhalt/k-droinfo/k...-driabsinth.htm

QUOTE (www.Absinthe-Distribution.com @ Jul 14 2005, 08:06 AM)

I'm quite sure, that the "D" is not there, because there is no real ortography in Schwyzerdütsch.

Exactly, you can write Schwyzerdütsch how you like it.

By the way "Guguss" is the editor Louis Bron from Geneve and "Polyte" is the caricaturiste Albert Gantner.

QUOTE (hartsmar @ Jul 14 2005, 07:08 AM)

Swedish IOGT... http://www.iogt-nto.se/ International IOGT: http://www.iogt.org/

Strange. I knew that organisation, I've just never wondered about what the letters stood for.

My dad, being an amateur fiddler, played at an IOGT party when I was a kid. He took me with him, I accompanied him a bit on a recorder. I remember a lot of really heavy-smoking old people and no beers.

I have a rubber stamp that I bought 8 years ago which says "I.O.G.T. Convention" on, and only found out last year what it meant.

Were you that good at recorder?

QUOTE (Gertz @ Jul 14 2005, 02:40 AM)

I accompanied him a bit on a recorder.

*just now picturing Gertz hammering on an old Beta-Max VCR*

It sounded great with a pair of schwytzerdütsch speakers.

Ba-dum tsccchhhh

QUOTE (grey boy @ Jul 13 2005, 10:10 PM)

Let's put it in a centrifuge and find out why.

Just to placate your historical sensitivities, I’ll stick with the traditional way of packing your shit.

Looks like I cheated myself out of making the discovery that Oxy made - I did search that bibliography, but the document was too long, so I only looked at an HTML version, which stopped short of the "H"s.