Hello all!
I live in Ontario, and i am surprised that threw my searching i have not found this question (poor searching perhaps??). The LCBO only carries one version of absente, wich is made with southern wormwood... i am sure you all have heard of this. So my question is this, what is it compaired to Absenthe, is it junk... nothing alike, a worthy easy to purchase alternative?
In the thread "Absenthe in Canada" i saw one poster refer to a place out east carrying a particular brand "fee parisienne" (sp ?)... can i get some details on this place?
It would be super fantastic to get my hands on some for the hollidays, but i have never tried Absenthe and would hate to be turned off by junk on my first try.
Can a good absenthe be drank neet? Perhaps it needs the water, but me, i am a neet kinda guy... like my whiskey, scotch, rhum, tequila... all straight, i hate the ice cube, water or mix... but it must be a premium drink!!
Cheers!
Erik
i must add an edit - a P.S. - thanks to this site, i avoided what sounds like a dreaded mistake, how foolish - i was near to buying that stipid kit off ebay - soak the herbs in vodka... thought it sounded like bunk, but i was willing to try it...
Full Version: absente (absenthe refined - made with Southern-Wormwood)
The Fée Verte Absinthe Forum - The Oldest, Largest, Most Authoritative Absinthe Forum. > Absinthe & Absinthiana > General Absinthe Discussion
Absente is crap. Avoid.
Drink all real absinthe with water (dilute at least 3 parts water to 1 part absinthe), not neat.
Drink all real absinthe with water (dilute at least 3 parts water to 1 part absinthe), not neat.
As Donnie said, never drink absinthe neat. If you do, you will immediately know why you should not. Mixing it with water changes the flavor entirely, even the aroma is very different afterwards. It's my understanding that adding water to other spirits changes the flavor profile, but with absinthe these changes are both extreme and necessary. Plus, the louche is half the fun.
Welcome!
Welcome!
Ok, great. Will find myself some proper Absenthe.
So I guess that brings me to my last question, is that fee par a decent drink? and where do i get it?
Thanks again for all the help folks... aint the net great!
So I guess that brings me to my last question, is that fee par a decent drink? and where do i get it?
Thanks again for all the help folks... aint the net great!
Sometimes.
"As Donnie said, never drink absinthe neat. If you do, you will immediately know why you should not. Mixing it with water changes the flavor entirely, even the aroma is very different afterwards. It's my understanding that adding water to other spirits changes the flavor profile, but with absinthe these changes are both extreme and necessary. Plus, the louche is half the fun."
Actually, drinking absinthe neat is the traditional way to do it.
With due respect to the copyright gods, I will quote from "'Absinthe. A myth always green".
"Spoons.
At the risk of dissapointing the reader, and in spite of the importance attached to the "absinthe ritual", absinthe spoons were not frequently used, and, in fact, only appeared late in the history of "la Fee Verte". In fact, absinthe was initially alluring due to its bitterness, following the example of gentiane, a plant very common in the Franco-Swiss Jura, the roots of which were distilled into an eau-de-vie.
From 1797 to 1880, it was the intrinsic bitterness that attracted the absintheurs. People generally drank absinthe "straight" in the same fashion as is done today by connoisseurs of whisky, i.e., with no water, and especially with no sugar! (Emphasis mine).
Alas, in two or three generations, tastes evolved, and the bitterness preferred by granpa seemed old-fashioned. During the same period, temperance leagues, often led by women, became indignant that people should consume such a beverage without cutting it with water or at least sweetening it with gum syrup!
Consequently distillers, whot sought a solution to appease the ladies, or at least to seduce their daughters with their products, came up with the brilliant idea of sugaring it with a special spoon, and once again absinthe was fashionable."
Now, I believe this book may be overreaching in its conclusions, but the fact remains that the "sugar/water" ritual is a relatively new thing, not the traditional way.
And if you read the last paragraph, it is amusing to think that the "fire" ritual shows that history repeats itself. Manufacturers looking for a new "twist" to enlarge the market.
Considering the number of people who believe that the fire ritual is the traditional way of drinking absinthe, a new "meme" has been born. A hundred years from now connoisseurs at an absinthe forum will be telling newbies to stick to the "traditional" fire ritual...
Actually, drinking absinthe neat is the traditional way to do it.
With due respect to the copyright gods, I will quote from "'Absinthe. A myth always green".
"Spoons.
At the risk of dissapointing the reader, and in spite of the importance attached to the "absinthe ritual", absinthe spoons were not frequently used, and, in fact, only appeared late in the history of "la Fee Verte". In fact, absinthe was initially alluring due to its bitterness, following the example of gentiane, a plant very common in the Franco-Swiss Jura, the roots of which were distilled into an eau-de-vie.
From 1797 to 1880, it was the intrinsic bitterness that attracted the absintheurs. People generally drank absinthe "straight" in the same fashion as is done today by connoisseurs of whisky, i.e., with no water, and especially with no sugar! (Emphasis mine).
Alas, in two or three generations, tastes evolved, and the bitterness preferred by granpa seemed old-fashioned. During the same period, temperance leagues, often led by women, became indignant that people should consume such a beverage without cutting it with water or at least sweetening it with gum syrup!
Consequently distillers, whot sought a solution to appease the ladies, or at least to seduce their daughters with their products, came up with the brilliant idea of sugaring it with a special spoon, and once again absinthe was fashionable."
Now, I believe this book may be overreaching in its conclusions, but the fact remains that the "sugar/water" ritual is a relatively new thing, not the traditional way.
And if you read the last paragraph, it is amusing to think that the "fire" ritual shows that history repeats itself. Manufacturers looking for a new "twist" to enlarge the market.
Considering the number of people who believe that the fire ritual is the traditional way of drinking absinthe, a new "meme" has been born. A hundred years from now connoisseurs at an absinthe forum will be telling newbies to stick to the "traditional" fire ritual...
Oh God, here we go again....
Interesting. I don't have that book. Is it the one by Betina? When I drank absinthe straight, I puked. It's difficult to imagine that many people liked it that way. Does this mean that most if not all of the fountains and spoons that we see were produced after 1880?
Why bother?
Ok, so regardless of what your book says Dr. - there is no way in hell (after tasting Absente, Ricard and Pernod pastis) that I would EVER drink a shot of Absinthe (or pastis) neat. Maybe its me (
) but even the relativly over sugared, under bittered taste of all pastis I've tried is still simply too dicked over without a proper mix of water to dillute it with.
Oh, also, you're a poor searcher:
http://www.feeverte.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=2542&hl=
http://www.feeverte.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=2538&hl=
Aaron
) but even the relativly over sugared, under bittered taste of all pastis I've tried is still simply too dicked over without a proper mix of water to dillute it with.Oh, also, you're a poor searcher:
http://www.feeverte.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=2542&hl=
http://www.feeverte.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=2538&hl=
Aaron
Selmac: No, this book is authored by Benoit Noel, Pierre Verte and Artemis.
Shinsain: Actually I'm a pretty good searcher, but in this case I wasn't searching for anything. I was explaining what the traditional way of drinking absinthe is. It may be hard to believe for some, but the fact remains that there are no old absinthe spoons.
Oxy: If you are talking about the "bitterness" part, it is only accidental. I have come to realize that arguing about a feeling is senseless in any case, even more senseless when talking about people who lived over a hundred years ago. My point here is to give newbies a bit of a historical perspective regarding what is "traditional" or not, and how what is "traditional" is not set in stone.
Shinsain: Actually I'm a pretty good searcher, but in this case I wasn't searching for anything. I was explaining what the traditional way of drinking absinthe is. It may be hard to believe for some, but the fact remains that there are no old absinthe spoons.
Oxy: If you are talking about the "bitterness" part, it is only accidental. I have come to realize that arguing about a feeling is senseless in any case, even more senseless when talking about people who lived over a hundred years ago. My point here is to give newbies a bit of a historical perspective regarding what is "traditional" or not, and how what is "traditional" is not set in stone.
QUOTE(erik @ Dec 5 2005, 09:41 AM) 
Ok, great. Will find myself some proper Absenthe.
So I guess that brings me to my last question, is that fee par a decent drink? and where do i get it?
Spell the real drink: " ABSINTHE" Absente is a brand name.
Also, yes, the La Fée parisienne is way better than absente, both in taste, and for being actual absinthe. There are some that will say that it's the very least of all the commercial absinthes, or that it's just a glorified pastis, but it IS absinthe, and "Absente" is not.
Dr. O- I think shinsain was refering to erik's searching skillls ( he talks about it in his original post )
For the umpteenth time: the book wasn't written by Peter, Artemis and Benoit. It was written (in French) by Benoit, and translated by Artemis and Peter.
We've discussed this before. This statement is wrong. There isn't one single contemporary reference to absinthe being drunk neat as a matter of wide-spread practice. There isn't a single known engraving showing absinthe being drunk neat. There are occasional references to drunkards and alcoholics drinking it neat, but even then, this was sufficiently rare and shocking to occasion disaproving comment. There is a single reference in the US press to an alledged fashion for neat absinthe among Parisian society ladies, but this isn't backed up by any French source, and is probably just third-hand hearsay.
There are hundreds, perhaps thousands of illustrations showing absinthe being drunk from the late 1840's onwards (when it first impinged on the consciousness of artists and illustrators). Until the late 1880's, these generally show absinthe being drunk in a largish glass with a long cordial spoon - implying both water, and sugar. From the 1890's onwards, the cordial spoon is replaced by the special perforated absinthe spoon we know today.
Balesta, writing in 1860, describes the absinthe 'professors' who taught cafe habitues how to add water to their absinthes in a slow and elegant way. He makes no mention at all of anyone drinking the stuff neat (and he was writing from an anti-absinthe viewpoint).
So it wasn't the sugar and water ritual that was invented in the 1880's, it was the perforated absinthe spoon. Based on the available historic evidence, it's reasonable to assume that absinthe was always drunk with the addition of water, and that sugar was always an option.
QUOTE
From 1797 to 1880, it was the intrinsic bitterness that attracted the absintheurs. People generally drank absinthe "straight" in the same fashion as is done today by connoisseurs of whisky, i.e., with no water, and especially with no sugar!
We've discussed this before. This statement is wrong. There isn't one single contemporary reference to absinthe being drunk neat as a matter of wide-spread practice. There isn't a single known engraving showing absinthe being drunk neat. There are occasional references to drunkards and alcoholics drinking it neat, but even then, this was sufficiently rare and shocking to occasion disaproving comment. There is a single reference in the US press to an alledged fashion for neat absinthe among Parisian society ladies, but this isn't backed up by any French source, and is probably just third-hand hearsay.
There are hundreds, perhaps thousands of illustrations showing absinthe being drunk from the late 1840's onwards (when it first impinged on the consciousness of artists and illustrators). Until the late 1880's, these generally show absinthe being drunk in a largish glass with a long cordial spoon - implying both water, and sugar. From the 1890's onwards, the cordial spoon is replaced by the special perforated absinthe spoon we know today.
Balesta, writing in 1860, describes the absinthe 'professors' who taught cafe habitues how to add water to their absinthes in a slow and elegant way. He makes no mention at all of anyone drinking the stuff neat (and he was writing from an anti-absinthe viewpoint).
So it wasn't the sugar and water ritual that was invented in the 1880's, it was the perforated absinthe spoon. Based on the available historic evidence, it's reasonable to assume that absinthe was always drunk with the addition of water, and that sugar was always an option.
Also, for anybody new that hasn't read the book Dr. O and Oxy are talking about-
Absinthe, a Myth Always Green
Benoit Noel, Pierre Verte, and Artemis
This is a really great book, written, unlike the other best sellers on the subject, by someone who KNOWS about absinthe. It focuses on things people here care about, and has a lot more interesting history than the "coffee-table" books by Betina, Barnaby Conrad, or Phil Baker.
That said, good luck finding it!
It's available on french amazon- HERE
But be prepared to wait 6-8 weeks for it to arrive, mine did. And yes, even though it's on french amazon, the book is in english.
Absinthe, a Myth Always Green
Benoit Noel, Pierre Verte, and Artemis
This is a really great book, written, unlike the other best sellers on the subject, by someone who KNOWS about absinthe. It focuses on things people here care about, and has a lot more interesting history than the "coffee-table" books by Betina, Barnaby Conrad, or Phil Baker.
That said, good luck finding it!
It's available on french amazon- HERE
But be prepared to wait 6-8 weeks for it to arrive, mine did. And yes, even though it's on french amazon, the book is in english.
It's unfair to lump Conrad's book together with Betina's book. Conrad did a lot of careful research, and his book is excellent, still by far the single best English language reference.
True, Conrad's book is an order of magnitude better than Betty's.
But even he was just a writer, looking for a story for his next book. He did do some very careful research, and his book is beautifully illustrated. But I thought Jad Adams book, "Hideous Absinthe" was better written, and more thorough.
Even so, he too, was a writer looking for a story.
The thing about "Myth Always Green" that I like, is that it feels to me like it was written by an absinthe drinker who wanted to write a book. The writing is terrible. It goes all over the place on tangents, and it can be very hard to follow his line of reasoning, because he hasn't organized his thoughts very professionally. But you can just feel the love of absinthe in every page. And the subjects covered, and the WAY they're discussed, reveals the auhtor to be somebody who has thought about absinthe a lot, for a long time.
I felt like I was reading a book by a well-educated friend of mine, instaed of a term-paper written by a journalism student.
But even he was just a writer, looking for a story for his next book. He did do some very careful research, and his book is beautifully illustrated. But I thought Jad Adams book, "Hideous Absinthe" was better written, and more thorough.
Even so, he too, was a writer looking for a story.
The thing about "Myth Always Green" that I like, is that it feels to me like it was written by an absinthe drinker who wanted to write a book. The writing is terrible. It goes all over the place on tangents, and it can be very hard to follow his line of reasoning, because he hasn't organized his thoughts very professionally. But you can just feel the love of absinthe in every page. And the subjects covered, and the WAY they're discussed, reveals the auhtor to be somebody who has thought about absinthe a lot, for a long time.
I felt like I was reading a book by a well-educated friend of mine, instaed of a term-paper written by a journalism student.
QUOTE
We've discussed this before. This statement is wrong. There isn't one single contemporary reference to absinthe being drunk neat as a matter of wide-spread practice. There isn't a single known engraving showing absinthe being drunk neat. There are occasional references to drunkards and alcoholics drinking it neat, but even then, this was sufficiently rare and shocking to occasion disaproving comment. There is a single reference in the US press to an alledged fashion for neat absinthe among Parisian society ladies, but this isn't backed up by any French source, and is probably just third-hand hearsay.
I found this one a while ago, a little amusing, and it seems to back Oxy on drinking absinthe neat:
Drinking Too Much Absinthe
New York Times
July 5, 1884
A party of Frenchmen, having imbibed too freely of absinthe, without taking the precaution to dilute their drinks with water, quarreled in the barroom of the French boarding house, NO.166 Washington-street, last evening. Theodore Goetzburer drew a pair of compasses from his pocket, and struck out indiscriminately. He stabbed Auguste Bonsin and Charles M. Buydel in their faces, and then made an attack on Martin Zanobersceradtler. The latter drew a revolver with which to defend himself. At this point Policemen Conley and Gilmore, who had heard the noise, entered the place and arrested Goetzburer and Zanobersceradtler. Bosnin and Buydel were sent to the Chambers-Street Hospital.
Oh, key word is precaution.
QUOTE(Oxygenee @ Dec 5 2005, 12:59 PM)
There are occasional references to drunkards and alcoholics drinking it neat, but even then, this was sufficiently rare and shocking to occasion disaproving comment.
True dat. The rare, shocking, and disaproved of Alfred Jarry always drank his neat, because, as he put it:
"Anti-alcoholics are unfortunates in the grip of water, that terrible poison, so solvent and corrosive that out of all substances, it has been chosen for washing and scourings, and a drop of water, added to a clear liquid like absinthe, muddies it".
Oxy, for the umpteenth time plus one:
If your name is in the cover of a book, you are the author. If you are a translator, your name will appear inside the covers. As the translator.
That is the traditional way, but I see that you are a revolutionary of the "water and sugar" persuasion...
Do you know of any existing sugar spoon before 1880?
If your name is in the cover of a book, you are the author. If you are a translator, your name will appear inside the covers. As the translator.
That is the traditional way, but I see that you are a revolutionary of the "water and sugar" persuasion...
Do you know of any existing sugar spoon before 1880?
What application would those long cordial spoons serve in the 1840s references if everyone were drinking absinthe neat?
I know! For the heroin!
I know! For the heroin!
spooning is so gay
while i wouldn't recommend drinking absinthe neat, i believe each absinthe you try should be sampled neat. this is how i was taught by one of the most revered of this forum, though on that particular day a hangover kept me from enjoying fully. i rebounded for my next tasting though. i like the neat sip. it lets you know you are alive!
QUOTE(dr_ordinaire @ Dec 5 2005, 12:14 PM)
Shinsain: Actually I'm a pretty good searcher, but in this case I wasn't searching for anything. I was explaining what the traditional way of drinking absinthe is. It may be hard to believe for some, but the fact remains that there are no old absinthe spoons.
I was talking to the OP who was saying that he searched about Absente.
And how "old" is "old" Dr O? I mean, to me ~1880 is fairly old. It coencides with the widespread use of Absinthe. And I still don't believe that anyone would actually want to drink Absinthe neat in the first place for more than a first taste. Although, to each is own, etc., etc., etc.
Dr. O,
I have a number of translated books that include the translator on the cover and not the author. I don't think author only is some sort of set in stone rule.
Didn't Oxy already say that the absinthe spoon came about in the 1880's? So your question has already been answered. An absinthe spoon isn't required to water your absinthe. Matter of fact I just made myself a glass that used neither spoon nor sugar. I guess the lack of absinthe spoon proves I just drank it neat, right?
I have a number of translated books that include the translator on the cover and not the author. I don't think author only is some sort of set in stone rule.
Didn't Oxy already say that the absinthe spoon came about in the 1880's? So your question has already been answered. An absinthe spoon isn't required to water your absinthe. Matter of fact I just made myself a glass that used neither spoon nor sugar. I guess the lack of absinthe spoon proves I just drank it neat, right?
On the subject of Absente....
Though their product is pretty much garbage, I must admit I do love their ad campaign....
All the altered artwork with the Absinthe refined wording on it.... quite cool to look at....
Too bad a quality Absinthe producer didn't come up with the idea.
Though their product is pretty much garbage, I must admit I do love their ad campaign....
All the altered artwork with the Absinthe refined wording on it.... quite cool to look at....
Too bad a quality Absinthe producer didn't come up with the idea.
Their marketing campaign is a double edged sword. The images are cool but at the same time they play on the drug effect hype that most here try to combat. Just like the fire ritual. Fire is cool and the blue flame alcohol produces is pretty, yet it's also a bogus tradition made up as marketing hype.
and, as others here have pointed out. the fire-and-spoon "ritual" is almost certainly intended to invoke images of cooking up heroine, to give it an even more hardcore edge.
The main problem with reinforcing the "druggie" image of absinthe, speaking from a purely selfish perspective, is that it pushes legalization further out of likelihood, and means I'll continue having to pay more for shipping than I do for my absinthe.
I'd rather lose some of the "mystique", and be able to buy a bottle of Jade down at Bevmo for $40.00.
The main problem with reinforcing the "druggie" image of absinthe, speaking from a purely selfish perspective, is that it pushes legalization further out of likelihood, and means I'll continue having to pay more for shipping than I do for my absinthe.
I'd rather lose some of the "mystique", and be able to buy a bottle of Jade down at Bevmo for $40.00.
I fully agree, Wild Bill. It's funny how the demonization of absinthe brought about all this fire-ritual and drug related crap; and that in turn serves to exacerbate the negative image of absinthe, making legalization less likely. It's a vicious circle. I suppose the same is true of marijuana and just about any other taboo.
Oxy-
The assertion that absinthe was taken neat for two or three generations before the water and sugar were added is a pretty serious factual error, if not correct. And it sounds like, as with the ancient czech fire ritual, there is no contemporary data to support it. So-
In general, do you find this book to be casually researched, and do you find other bits of "flawed history" in it? As I say, I like the overall tone of this book best of all, for it's feeling of being written by "one of us". But I've been assuming it's research and history were also good.
The assertion that absinthe was taken neat for two or three generations before the water and sugar were added is a pretty serious factual error, if not correct. And it sounds like, as with the ancient czech fire ritual, there is no contemporary data to support it. So-
In general, do you find this book to be casually researched, and do you find other bits of "flawed history" in it? As I say, I like the overall tone of this book best of all, for it's feeling of being written by "one of us". But I've been assuming it's research and history were also good.
well, one has to assume that ALL alcoholic beverages were at one time intended to be drunk neat.
Why would somebody 'invent' or develop a drink that requires the adding of water or anything else?
why not just water down the absinthe or whatever an sell it thinned for a higher profit?
I'm sure that even though the adding of water caught on quickly that it probably wasn't the absolute original intention of those who developed it.
Why would somebody 'invent' or develop a drink that requires the adding of water or anything else?
why not just water down the absinthe or whatever an sell it thinned for a higher profit?
I'm sure that even though the adding of water caught on quickly that it probably wasn't the absolute original intention of those who developed it.
I would like to add something, Wild Bill.
Even if we assume the unlikely theory that Peter and Artemis were merely translators of the book, the fact remains that they translated it.
I would think highly improbable that Peter and Artemis would put down their names in a book without agreeing to its contents. These guys are respected members of the absinthe community and they know better than sell out. It's not that they edited a book by Bettina, or stuff like that.
So here we have a difference in opinion between Oxy (a respected absintheur and researcher) and Benoit Noel (a respected absintheur and researcher).
Even if we assume the unlikely theory that Peter and Artemis were merely translators of the book, the fact remains that they translated it.
I would think highly improbable that Peter and Artemis would put down their names in a book without agreeing to its contents. These guys are respected members of the absinthe community and they know better than sell out. It's not that they edited a book by Bettina, or stuff like that.
So here we have a difference in opinion between Oxy (a respected absintheur and researcher) and Benoit Noel (a respected absintheur and researcher).
QUOTE(Fredie @ Dec 5 2005, 05:20 PM)
well, one has to assume that ALL alcoholic beverages were at one time intended to be drunk neat.
Why would somebody 'invent' or develop a drink that requires the adding of water or anything else?
why not just water down the absinthe or whatever an sell it thinned for a higher profit?
I'm sure that even though the adding of water caught on quickly that it probably wasn't the absolute original intention of those who developed it.
Keep in mind that with absinthe, many of the essential oils are not soluble in water, and bottling it pre-louched would not give it a very long shelf life (especially after the consumer already opened it).
It could be that the original "dose" was always meant to be mixed with water. My understanding was that it was developed as a medicinal elixir before it's use as a beverage.
My other impression is that it was used by soldiers early on as an additive to water in foreign lands to make it more potable. So it may be that water was a part of the preparation of absinthe before it was even seen as a drink.
My other impression is that it was used by soldiers early on as an additive to water in foreign lands to make it more potable. So it may be that water was a part of the preparation of absinthe before it was even seen as a drink.
QUOTE(dr_ordinaire @ Dec 5 2005, 08:27 PM)
It's not that they edited a book by Bettina, or stuff like that.
Haha.
Dr. O, you forgot to add one of these...
QUOTE(Wild Bill Turkey @ Dec 5 2005, 08:32 PM)
My other impression is that it was used by soldiers early on as an additive to water in foreign lands to make it more potable. So it may be that water was a part of the preparation of absinthe before it was even seen as a drink.
Interesting concept there. Absinthe was intended to be added to water instead of the opposite.
While i cant add too much to a discussion on the correct way to drink absinthe, I can help you with the substitute thing.
I've tried all the Pastis I could find as an absinthe substitute, my reccomendation is Henri Bardouin. IMHO the best pastis you can find. As for the others, the Pernod is a little too sweet, but with a beautiful color. Ricard tastes better than pernod but not as good as the Henri Bardouin. Oh, and avoid Granier at all costs...
I've tried all the Pastis I could find as an absinthe substitute, my reccomendation is Henri Bardouin. IMHO the best pastis you can find. As for the others, the Pernod is a little too sweet, but with a beautiful color. Ricard tastes better than pernod but not as good as the Henri Bardouin. Oh, and avoid Granier at all costs...
QUOTE(AndrewT @ Dec 5 2005, 05:30 PM)
many of the essential oils are not soluble in water, and bottling it pre-louched would not give it a very long shelf life (especially after the consumer already opened it).
Hmm.... true. forgot about that. Still, one has to wonder about the person who came up with a drink and said to another person:"Hey this stuff tastes horrible by it's self but add water to it and it's marvelous!"
QUOTE(Lord Stanley @ Dec 5 2005, 05:38 PM)
Interesting concept there. Absinthe was intended to be added to water instead of the opposite.
Sure beats Iodine!!!
Why would adding Absinthe to water make it more potable? Simply the high alcohol content???
It probably wouldn't. Remember that we're talking about the medicinal value of wormwood according to 19th century science.
It doesnt make it more potable, it just brings out and balances the flavor. Just like how a burbon and water tastes more complex than if you drank it neat.
I assume the alcohol could kill at least some bacteria in the water, adds to the flavor of the water and makes for better times.
I guess so. If you're going to get Giardia(sp?) then, you might as well have some absinthe with it.
And I forgot we're talking about the medicinal purpose of wormwood back in the day. It makes sense now.
And I forgot we're talking about the medicinal purpose of wormwood back in the day. It makes sense now.
I've been thinking about the possible evolution of Absinthe with relation to %abv.
It is plausable that the original absinthe (1795ish) may have had a lower alcohol content and was meatn to be consumed neat. An alcohol level of 35% would have supported a lower herb oil content, but is plausable.
As it evolved into more of a social drink (mid to late 1800s), including export with troops to foregn land, it would make sense to ship it with a higher proof and add water at the final destination. The predisposition of of some people to prefer sweeter beverages could have then (with the wider acceptance) resulted in the addition of sugar, and ultimately the slotted spoon/sugar cube/fountain process.
While this is plausable as an evolution of the serving process it would require an associated evolution of the product at the same time.
Not implausable.
Is there any evidence to support the assertion that very early Absinthe was a lower proof product? The oldest translations I have seen date to the mid/late 19th century and would have been too late in the proposed time line to show the lower proof.
It is plausable that the original absinthe (1795ish) may have had a lower alcohol content and was meatn to be consumed neat. An alcohol level of 35% would have supported a lower herb oil content, but is plausable.
As it evolved into more of a social drink (mid to late 1800s), including export with troops to foregn land, it would make sense to ship it with a higher proof and add water at the final destination. The predisposition of of some people to prefer sweeter beverages could have then (with the wider acceptance) resulted in the addition of sugar, and ultimately the slotted spoon/sugar cube/fountain process.
While this is plausable as an evolution of the serving process it would require an associated evolution of the product at the same time.
Not implausable.
Is there any evidence to support the assertion that very early Absinthe was a lower proof product? The oldest translations I have seen date to the mid/late 19th century and would have been too late in the proposed time line to show the lower proof.
I have seen several old photographs that seem to show people drinking absinthe neat.
I like to pour a shot and sip it for an hour or more,
not even sips really, just barely wetting my lips, I only do it with the very best though,
sometimes I will put a few drops of water in the shot glass but not enough to louche.
I like to pour a shot and sip it for an hour or more,
not even sips really, just barely wetting my lips, I only do it with the very best though,
sometimes I will put a few drops of water in the shot glass but not enough to louche.
>Is there any evidence to support the assertion that very early Absinthe was a lower proof product? The oldest translations I have seen date to the mid/late 19th century and would have been too late in the proposed time line to show the lower proof.<
there is no evidence that gives the exact degree of alcohol that original (late 18th century) absinthe was made at, because the scale that we use to measure the percentage of alcohol (guy-lussac) was not invented until around 1824. it is an educated guess (mine, as far as i know, since no one else has mentioned this that i know of) that the original alcohol degree was left at the still-strength that was capable at the time, which was most likely between 70 and 80 degrees (given the primitive nature of the stills used and the type and degree of base alcohol used).
it is here where we have our original historic percentage of 68 - 72, which would have reflected this 'brut' alambic strength, minus some loss for a couple of years of aging or inaccurate measurements.
it is my belief that this original product was used -as a medicine- at full strength and in VERY small doses, and that its use as a water purifier by the military in the 1830's is mostly responsible for creating the aperitif known as 'absinthe' traditionally mixed with water - as someone mentioned, it was mostly likely that first absinthe was added to water than water to absinthe, as this was and is still common with wine, based on 'cleaning' poor quality water...it is highly doubtful that many people drank absinthe straight as an 'aperitif' after the 1830's, but it almost certain that it has been used as a digestif, straight, for almost its entire history, although mostly by locals in the regions around pontarlier and this was certainly not the norm in the big cities, except by extremists or drunks, however i too, like kirk, prefer to taste absinthe pure, at least in small amounts to judge its merits...
there is no evidence that gives the exact degree of alcohol that original (late 18th century) absinthe was made at, because the scale that we use to measure the percentage of alcohol (guy-lussac) was not invented until around 1824. it is an educated guess (mine, as far as i know, since no one else has mentioned this that i know of) that the original alcohol degree was left at the still-strength that was capable at the time, which was most likely between 70 and 80 degrees (given the primitive nature of the stills used and the type and degree of base alcohol used).
it is here where we have our original historic percentage of 68 - 72, which would have reflected this 'brut' alambic strength, minus some loss for a couple of years of aging or inaccurate measurements.
it is my belief that this original product was used -as a medicine- at full strength and in VERY small doses, and that its use as a water purifier by the military in the 1830's is mostly responsible for creating the aperitif known as 'absinthe' traditionally mixed with water - as someone mentioned, it was mostly likely that first absinthe was added to water than water to absinthe, as this was and is still common with wine, based on 'cleaning' poor quality water...it is highly doubtful that many people drank absinthe straight as an 'aperitif' after the 1830's, but it almost certain that it has been used as a digestif, straight, for almost its entire history, although mostly by locals in the regions around pontarlier and this was certainly not the norm in the big cities, except by extremists or drunks, however i too, like kirk, prefer to taste absinthe pure, at least in small amounts to judge its merits...
When it comes to making spirits, I'm sure that long before we can document it the characteristic of oils in suspension/louche was known and appreciated in some way, whether transport, efficiency etc. -s
The only reference I can think of is from the "Pernod 200 years" book (page 20) where there's a copy of an order for "30 bottles of 55° extract of absinthe". According to the book, its envelope was dated 1810.
it isn't clear what the symbol next to the 55 actually is, and if you compare the digit 1s in the date, it would appear that it is 1820 and not 1810. there is a typed letter from 1813 on the page right next to it, and there is no mention of the degree of alcohol, just 'premiere qualité' and '2eme.'
my translation of the first letter is that it is an order for 30 bottles of '1ere (premiere) qualite' which costs 55 francs a liter.
considering the bottle on page 43 is identified as a pernod fils bottle from 1830, when it is actually an edouard pernod bottle, made in a fashion not perfected until the 1880's, and for a company that wasn't in pontarlier until 1897, well it looks like we still have to rely on alot of our own research and conclusions...
my translation of the first letter is that it is an order for 30 bottles of '1ere (premiere) qualite' which costs 55 francs a liter.
considering the bottle on page 43 is identified as a pernod fils bottle from 1830, when it is actually an edouard pernod bottle, made in a fashion not perfected until the 1880's, and for a company that wasn't in pontarlier until 1897, well it looks like we still have to rely on alot of our own research and conclusions...
I believe you're right. I just read what it said under the picture. It seems it says 30 bottles of extraits d'Absinthe de Neuchatel de 1... qualité. And yes, probably at 55 something per ltr or so.
Sure it would be 55 francs? Doesn't that sound expensive?
Sure it would be 55 francs? Doesn't that sound expensive?
the eau-de-vie on the oppisite page costs 83 francs and it is for a small barrel!
however, you are right, my first thought is very expensive per bottle and that might refer to the totality of the purchase or maybe 55 centimes per bottle.
however, you are right, my first thought is very expensive per bottle and that might refer to the totality of the purchase or maybe 55 centimes per bottle.
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