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The Fée Verte Absinthe Forum - The Oldest, Largest, Most Authoritative Absinthe Forum. > Absinthe & Absinthiana > Vintage Absinthe
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jmfranc
I am offering up 25ml (one glass) and 50ml (two glasses) samples from three different bottles. A 1940 Pernod Fils Tarragona, very well stored. A late 1950's or early 1960's Pernod Fils Tarragona, also very well stored. And a Berger Pastis from 1930, very well stored.

You can go here for more info and pricing.


IPB Image
zachM
abs-cheers.gif You are so beautiful today.
Wild Bill Turkey
Really, Jim, you are looking awfully nice suddenly. Have you lost weight?
zachM
I think its his complexion.
Fredie
Ooh..... Tempting! w00t1.gif
hartsmar
The contents of that "1940's" bottle look awfully brown to me... Also, are you positive about the dating on that one since it differs from other 1940 bottles I've seen. The stamp is more like that on 1950-60 bottles. Compare the stamp on the bottle of the two and you will see they are the same, only the one without labels is a bit "thicker".

That bottle, the 1940's one, what does it look like in the bottom? Is it flat like the 1960's bottle next to it?
jmfranc
The bottles are actually very different. The one from the 40's is much larger, thicker glass, and the bottom is different. The one from the 50's/60's is smaller and the seal is made with the bottle. Two very different bottles from different time periods.

The browning may have been due to light at some point in the past. I've had some and it's very, very good. Not as good as a preban Pernod Fils but hell, who has those pop up for a decent price?
hartsmar
Figures.
Hard to tell from that photo, so I had to ask.

Worth noting is that the Berger pastis is at best from 1937-1940 since Pastis at 45% wasn't legal before that. Then it was illegal from 1940 up to 1951... Those bottles are hard to date and the labels vary slightly.
grey boy
Nice work on the labels.
grey boy
I mean, the storage must have been amazingly sterile for it to remain so white.
grey boy
"I am now looking to buy (or trade my preban Edouard samples) for an empty preban bottle with a label"

QUOTE
(Jack Batemaster @ Aug 4 2005, 05:06 PM)
Alright, really! - what are you up to????

"This time, I'm innocent - I SWEAR! Just replacing a broken preban bottle...."
grey boy
Your words Jimmy.

I'll find your post asking for repro vintage labels later.
Donnie Darko
QUOTE(hartsmar @ Feb 1 2006, 04:52 PM) *

The contents of that "1940's" bottle look awfully brown to me... Also, are you positive about the dating on that one since it differs from other 1940 bottles I've seen. That bottle, the 1940's one, what does it look like in the bottom? Is it flat like the 1960's bottle next to it?


I have a 60s bottle and another bottle from circa 1940. The 60s one actually has a deeper punt in the bottom of the bottle, whereas the 40s one has an unusual punt, that is shallower, goes in around the edges, then comes back down in the middle, as opposed to going further up in side the bottle. The seal on the 40s one is also much more prominent whereas the 60s seal is slighter. The other big difference is the 40s one has much darker green glass, which would explain the contents looking darker, especially if they're already a healthy bronze. I'm no expert on dating the bottles but the one that I have that was told to me to be from circa 1930-1940 looks noticeably different from the 60s bottle, so I'd guess the bottles were dated correctly, unless someone knows for a fact that Pernod used a wide range of bottle types and glass colours in the 60s.

The only thing suspicious about the 40s bottle is it appears to have no remnants of any labelling or foil seal. I can understand the label being missing but removing the foil seal too makes it look like the bottle has been stripped and cleaned, which people usually do to empty bottles before trying to sell them. I've seen lots of bottles with missing labels that were still sealed but I've never seen one of that age that had no remnant of the foil left around the neck. I'm not accusing Jim of anything per se, but I'm skeptical about that one bottle.
jmfranc
Someone asked for pictures of the bottles before I opened them. Here they are.

GO HERE FOR THE PERNOD FILS PICTURES

GO HERE FOR THE BERGER PASTIS PICTURES


I don't really know what all the beef is about. When I get into a new hobby - I go all out. You should see my music poster collection - it's freakin nuts and I spent WAY too much on all that. When I got into absinthe, I REALLY got into it. I was buying bottles off of ebay with no labels that I wanted to display and then noticed you could buy labels - so why not buy some labels for the naked bottles? These were FOR DISPLAY - I can't believe people here would suggest I was trying to rip them off by claiming vintage absinthe. These bottles were for DISPLAY.

I bought Oxy's Premier Fils bottle for something like $350 and the C.F. Berger for nearly that - FOR DISPLAY. I have about 7 vintage bottles not including these three I just received.

Give the conspiracy theories a rest people.
zachM
I trust you Jim. heart.gif sleepy.gif
hartsmar
Ok, I will try to clear thing up as much as I can without stepping on anyones toes and without stating to be some sort of über expert on Tarragona bottles but...

After some consulting and looking and thinking and... It seems that the far right bottle is likely a very early 1950's bottle. Very much alike the ones from the 40's but with a slightly different color tint. The contents of those are quite different, and in many peoples opionions, closer to the pre-ban thing than the late 1950's and the 1960's Tarragonas.

The middle one is as said probably mid 1960's.

The color of the contents of the far right one does match what it should look like based on bottle tint and age. I just didn't look hard enough to actually see that difference in bottle color.

The corks themselves look authentic and in good shape but it is of course hard to tell from the photos.
The cork on the older bottle seems untampered with from the photos but it is hard to tell without holding it in person.

The main problem here is probably that they shouldn't have been uncorked like that in the first place. That would have taken away a lot of this fuzz.



Now, on to the conspiracy theories... There is nothing wrong with buying old bottles or labels for collecting them. People do it all the time. There are also several full bottles to be found if you look for it and Tarragona bottles, though getting rarer - are the easiest to find.

I don't know you very well JMFranc, thus I cannot guarantee any of the goods here, since they have been opened. The unopened bottles look good to me though and I think that we now have a correct dating as well.

I hope this will clear up some questions from me, others and also from you JMFranc.
grey boy
Good info Hartsmar.
Marc
QUOTE(grey boy @ Feb 2 2006, 07:28 PM) *

Good info Hartsmar.


That's all ?
After 4 consecutive posts accusing jmfranc, that's all you have to say ?
Donnie Darko
Yeah, after seeing more CU photos of the 1940s/50s one, it looks cool to me too. From the pic you can see everything was intact. It's unfortunate the cork was removed, because uncorking one with a shriveled cork like the 40s bottle pic can exacerbate any corkiness (if the bottle had to be wax sealed to prevent leaking, this even further suggests it is corked), but as far as the pics go, everything looks authentic as far as my non-expert eye can tell.
Grim
Greentongue and Jim... one in the same?

That would be nice to clear up. Anonymity is one thing on the forums...

Assuming an alternate identity to sell/shill absinthe has not ended well in the past.
grey boy
QUOTE(mthuilli @ Feb 2 2006, 01:36 PM) *

That's all ?
After 4 consecutive posts accusing jmfranc, that's all you have to say ?


Yup, I still don't trust him.
Marc
Ok, it clears up wink.gif
old animosity ?
that's not my business anyway
grey boy
That's it, the straw that broke the camel's back. pirate2.gif
Donnie Darko
QUOTE(Grim @ Feb 2 2006, 01:39 PM) *

Greentongue and Jim... one in the same?

That would be nice to clear up. Anonymity is one thing on the forums...

Assuming an alternate identity to sell/shill absinthe has not ended well in the past.


That's the larger concern here. The bottles look OK. We're all obviously sensitive to people who pretend to be someone else in order to make a buck, and that's the issue that needs addressing. Unless of course Greentongue just uses JMFrancs email address for kiddie porn, then it's all OK.
jmfranc
I thank you for having an open mind when looking at the pictures. I could not find any syringes longer than 1.5 inches and it would need to be a hair longer to work. Walgreens doesn't stock the spinal tap ones sleepy.gif

I had to open them to get the samples out. I poured up the glasses for the photos and was not going to waste them by mixing with water just to louche them. It was middle of the day and I had other things going on or I would have LOVED to drink all three. I have had all three over the last few nights and they are really nice samples. I've tasted cork-taint and there's none of that going on here.
Ari
I assume you didn't buy the bottles at Walgreens either. Since it's such a common practice to needle the bottle, you probably could have asked one of the vintage experts where they get their needles or even buy one from them. If each bottle was 5cl and you sold all of it, you end up with a good couple thousand, surely there is enough money there to buy a syringe and do it right.
Maybe I'm off base.

Oh and I think some are waiting for a response about GreenShill.
Heure Verte
Concerning the dating of the Pernod Fils Tarragona, I noticed some differences between bottles that you would date from 60's (very green glass, not as thick as the 40's one and so) : on the bottom of the labels, there's sometimes written "Elaborado por Pernod S.A. - Tarragona" (I have an half bottle with this label) OR sometimes "Elaborado por Pernod S.A. en la fabrica J.M. Banus - Tarragona" (usually the bottle has a Pernod S.A. glass stamp instead of the Pernod one).

I don't know what is the J M Banus manufacture and I don't know the Pernod Tarragona story enough to know what this indications means about dating but I think there's an explanation, a link. Perhaps someone will explain it to us.
I just read somewhere than the Pernod Fils produced by JM Banus was older than the regular one : about 1956 against past 1960 ... but I'm not confident with this information.

One of the bottle JM Franc is selling was produced at the J.M. Banus manufacture, I read it on the label.
jmfranc
I just spent the last few hours getting the 25ml and 50ml bottles filled and sealed. Those of you that have ordered - I will be mailing tomorrow. There's a lot left of the 60's and the Pastis - the earlier Pernod Fils is going very quick - but there's still about 7 25ml bottles left.

If you want some, order it now. Order it here.

Those of you that have ordered, when you get these samples, please put a review up. I, as others, would love to hear your thoughts on the taste and quality.
Stroller
So jmfranc, are you greentongue at WS?

QUOTE
greentongue
Jan 18 2006, 03:56 PM
Post #1
Joined: 17-January 06

I have been drinking absinthe for about 1.5 years now - nonstop. It gets in the way of eating but I take care of that with the main-line stuck in my neck. I can add it to my drip bag - makes a lovely louche.

My favorite absinthes are the Jade NO and Segarra, not much of a blanche fan but do the Clandestine time to time. Getting to like Montmartre - slowly. I admit, my first absinth(es) were Sebor and La Fee.

I love vintage absinthe, I have tried four of them so far - Pernod Fils, Edouard Pernod, Premier Fils, and C.F. Berger. The Berger blew my mind with the Edouard a close second.

Other drinks I like are some rums and Vieux Pontarlier anis.

QUOTE

QUOTE(Zman @ Feb 1 2006, 09:21 PM)
It's JMFranc who's selling the stuff on FV. Nuff said.

greentongue
Yesterday, 06:30 PM

Is there something I don't know about this guy? Everything I bought seemed ideal. Should I worry about these new samples hes selling? Seemed like an OK guy to me. What's your history with him?


QUOTE
greentongue
Yesterday, 07:48 PM

That's good to know. I believed everything he said and some people even backed him up like Oxy and Deluge. Deluge bought some from him also and has a review on his site about the sample - thats why I went ahead and bought from him. I think a few other people also stuck up for him. Including the VanGogh guy. I don't know what to think but I enjoyed what I bought from him and a number of long standing members of Fee Verte stood up for him.

Hope you guys are just laying it on thick because I doubt he's ripping anyone off. Didn't he do some graphics work for Oxy as well on the Absinthe Classics website? Wonder what Oxy has to say about him? I looked at the members on this board and I do not see his name "jmfranc" listed. I'll ask him to come here and post some responses to your questions. I'm going to personal message him right now on FeeVerte.


QUOTE
QUOTE(Hiram @ Feb 1 2006, 09:34 PM)
You should worry that this is the same guy that was looking for empty vintage bottles and vintage labels last year. Do some searches over at Fée Verte.


greentongue
Yesterday, 07:52 PM

He showed me a picture of his collection. He's got a lot of vintage bottles. I think he collects them. I don't really see the point if they don't have something in them

I'm happy with my dealings with him and hope you are just being overly precautious. And the prices seem to be pretty good.

Anyone here have any DIRECT dealings with him? There's gotta be someone here who has bought from him or did some kind of trade. Oxy? Deluge? I'm tired of talking about him.



I do agree with the last sentence.
grey boy
Don't forget the posts where he kisses jimmy's ass.
jmfranc
QUOTE(Stroller @ Feb 2 2006, 06:29 PM) *

So jmfranc, are you greentongue at WS?



His posting permissions were changed because of me? Hiram, do you take things THAT personal? Grey boy, you know how to take up a lot of room and contributing "0" - you know who I am and am disgusted you would even suggest such things. For the record - I do not have a green tongue and have never claimed to. Leave that guy alone - he and I are not the same. Go back to your X-Files shows.........
grey boy
QUOTE(jmfranc @ Feb 2 2006, 07:57 PM) *

Grey boy... you know who I am..


Opie from Akron?
jmfranc
Where?
Head_prosthesis
Oh dear!
Stroller
Greentongue's email is jmfdesigns@yahoo.com

This is what I found on another website. Maybe I'm reading to much into this...


jmfranc 01-04-2005 01:48 PM

Need your input on what I should seed - Phish and G Dead

I just got back from my old home town and brought with me a ton of
vids that I have collected over the years. I now have all the quality
equipment that I need to capture video and synch up good sbds or auds.
What I need from you is a starting point. Please list the few that you
have never seen and wish to download. I will make final decisions
based on video quality. I do not want to circulate crap. Please email
me at jmfdesigns@yahoo.com with your suggestions.

Here's what video I have on hand:

Phish
11/8/96 I,II
10/31/89 80min Goddard Coll.
10/23/96 II
12/29/93 Ip, II
7/20/94 II
8/10/97 II
12/31/95 ALL Original Master Tapes (VERY GOOD Q)
6/21/94
7/19/98 I
8/8/97 II
12/2/96 II
11/30/96 partial
11/8/98 I, II
10/31/96 Pro Shot partial
10/31/98 I think it's all there
10/17/96 I,II
4/2/98 I,II
12/6/97 I, II
12/9/95 ?
10/20/98 Sessions at W 54st - 70min
10/31/94 ?
10/19/96 II
11/30/95 I, IIp
11/21/97 I,II
12/31/97 I,II,III
12/30/97 II
_______________________________

GD 9/10/93
PBS R&R Outtakes - Jerry (5/2/94)
3/29/90 II
3/20/94 II
3/21/94 I,II
Various Dead Backstage stuff - great footage - Q not that great
Jerry Diving Video - fun stuff
11/3/91 Bill Graham Benefit
7/23/90 I
12/31/87 III
5/27/89 I + Tomorrow Show Garcia and Kesey from 5/7/81
10/3/87 II pro shot
JGB 5/15/94
5/8/84 II
________________________________

Oysterhead 11/18/01 partial - not that great`

________________________________


Thank you.

Jim Francis

jmfranc 01-04-2005 03:17 PM

Phish and Dead video sources

I am the one that posted the original message about having these. They are all on VHS. I got most of these just weeks after the shows. I was part of a video making/trading group. I would guess that most of these are from the masters with very few exceptions.

Anyone know where I can download the previous version of 12/31/95? I would like to compare.

And I am doing 12/30/97 first. People really want this one....

What's the BEST audio version for this show? This one? http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=10149

Let me know. I'll start ASAP and seed them here....

Jim
jmfranc
That's an email address of mine. But I converse with greentongue through greentongue2001@somewhere.

Is it normal practice to post someone's private email address? Maybe I should start posting everyone's email addresses. You don't seem to mind.

I am not greentongue and wish you guys would drop the insults. Go back and delete the email addresses you have posted or I will start posting yours.
Grim
Uh... you need to take your own advice.
jmfranc
Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't want it in this thread...
Head_prosthesis
Why's that jm?
Grim
He prefers thesandlappers@yahoo.com.
Ari
You may want to converse with greentongue as to why he signed up with your e-mail address.
Grim
Or you could talk to thesandlappers, since ya purchased your bottle of Edouard from him... about a year after he appeared and disappeared from the board. How 'bout I post the e-mails he sent back and forth to a few of us -- naaaah, that wouldn't be bewwy nice of me...

Whatta koinky-dink... they're signed "Jim."
Head_prosthesis
Man, this is a real nail biter!

How's it gonna end?
jmfranc
QUOTE(Grim @ Feb 2 2006, 08:00 PM) *

Or you could talk to thesandlappers, since ya purchased your bottle of Edouard from him... about a year after he appeared and disappeared from the board. How 'bout I post the e-mails he sent back and forth to a few of us -- naaaah, that wouldn't be bewwy nice of me...

Whatta koinky-dink... they're signed "Jim."



I have no idea what you are talking about. I never purchased/exchanged money with sandlapper. Maybe his name is "Jim" too. Think that's possible?
Grim
You purchased the same bottle. Same exact vintage scotch tape. Same images he used are what you posted.

P.S. fuck-stick. I've waited for you to stumble over your own feet.
Remember the patent number you quoted off the bottle in the image.
It's the same pic of the same bottle, Jim. You're the same person. I knew you'd take the pics down, but sandlappers images are still up in the other thread I bumped.
Grim
QUOTE
The US Patent number is ....... 11283, 24th June, 1884

IPB Image
Grim
So you're telling me two boys named Jim, new to absinthe, found the same vintage bottles of Edouard, both unwittingly stumbled into the same internet forum looking to sell it (a year apart) and made the same tasteless faux paus of scotch-taping the label back together?
Ari
QUOTE(jmfranc @ Feb 2 2006, 05:13 PM) *

QUOTE(Grim @ Feb 2 2006, 08:00 PM) *

Or you could talk to thesandlappers, since ya purchased your bottle of Edouard from him... about a year after he appeared and disappeared from the board. How 'bout I post the e-mails he sent back and forth to a few of us -- naaaah, that wouldn't be bewwy nice of me...

Whatta koinky-dink... they're signed "Jim."



I have no idea what you are talking about. I never purchased/exchanged money with sandlapper. Maybe his name is "Jim" too. Think that's possible?

Are you sure?
jmfranc
That's not the exact bottle. Very close though. It has the exact same label which was done for the US market. Nice try. You aren't going to catch me doing anything. Isn't the sandlapper guy from N. Carolina?

Not sure why you spend so much time on this but is interesting taking a walk through the past with you - even though it's jaded....

Vintage absinthe still available!

And guess what - this will disappoint a few people here - IT'S THE REAL THING. You just HATE the idea of me actually having 3 full bottles and about 9 samples from other vintages. Sorry. I know you wish I had faked it and you would catch me or something - it would be so much more fun that way! But, reality is pretty boring - these absinthe bottles are genuine vintages that I am offering up to people who might care to try them.

I did not buy anything from Sandlapper. I am not sandlapper. I am not greentongue. Get over it.
jmfranc
QUOTE(Grim @ Feb 2 2006, 08:32 PM) *

So you're telling me two boys named Jim, new to absinthe, found the same vintage bottles of Edouard, both unwittingly stumbled into the same internet forum looking to sell it (a year apart) and made the same tasteless faux paus of scotch-taping the label back together?



My bottle didn't have as much of a label left. And I never scotch taped anything. You are looking at a different bottle than the one I had.
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