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The Fe Verte Absinthe Forum - The Oldest, Largest, Most Authoritative Absinthe Forum. > Absinthe & Absinthiana > Dr Magnan's Lab
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ripvanmd
Interesting article published in the journal Substance Abuse Treatment, Prevention and Policy:

Pubmed Central

If the link happens not to work, just go to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov, click on pubmed central and search under absinthe for an article entitled: Absinthism: A Ficticious 19th Century Syndrome with present impact.

Its a really nice review of some of the early medical arguments against absinthe as well as currrent evidence supporting a "toxicologic revival" of absinthe. I think that they give a somewhat abbreviated review of modern absinthe.

I searched the site for citations of this article with nothing turning up...sorry if it has been posted already.

PDXAbsinthe
QUOTE(ripvanmd @ Jun 13 2006, 03:17 PM) *

Interesting article published in the journal Substance Abuse Treatment, Prevention and Policy:

Pubmed Central

If the link happens not to work, just go to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov, click on pubmed central and search under absinthe for an article entitled: Absinthism: A Ficticious 19th Century Syndrome with present impact.

Its a really nice review of some of the early medical arguments against absinthe as well as currrent evidence supporting a "toxicologic revival" of absinthe. I think that they give a somewhat abbreviated review of modern absinthe.

I searched the site for citations of this article with nothing turning up...sorry if it has been posted already.



that made me thirsty absintheglass-glow2.gif
traineraz
So thirsty you felt a need to quote the entire post above yours, in order to point out nothing in particular in the text?

You CAN just respond, if so desired. You could even remove the quote by use of the handy-dandy Edit button.
Wild Bill Turkey
The article is an interesting one, though, and well researched.
He makes one frustrating mistake, accepting on faith some czech publicity claims of a tradition of pre-ban czech absinthe. Other than that, solid.

Jaded Prole
Thanks, pretty informative article. Suprisingly positive considering the source being a magazine related to substance abuse treatments.
PDXAbsinthe



Get a mouse with a wheel and while your at it go read forum rule #1 as many times as it takes to sink in
hartsmar
Hey, PDX...
Your quoting large posts just above yours eats bandwidth in the long run. Now who's the asshole?
jacal01
Well researched reference article. The foundation continues to be laid toward legalization in the US.


Non-deferential noobs give me the red ass.
PDXAbsinthe
well Hartsmar that was better you gave a valid intelligent reason, except for the crescendo at the end. Ill even apologies for having to waste you valuable time..AND band width explaining to this inane Absinthe drinker.

There no need to be a pompous ass to make a point fair enough?
brucer
Sir, you are not polite. Good day.
hartsmar
Well, some of us here are pompous asses and have been for a long time. It's a damn priviledge.
Something earned over time.

Anyway, now you know.
jacal01
QUOTE(Jaded Prol @ Jun 14 2006, 08:16 AM) *

Thanks, pretty informative article. Suprisingly positive considering the source being a magazine related to substance abuse treatments.

Even better, considering the target audience.
traineraz
Ah, this time it actually loaded! (I was having some connection issues yesterday.)

Great, and well-researched article! I'm surprised that a journal would give up so much space for historical/social aspects, but I imagine a strong argument can be made for its relevance to substance abuse and relevant policy-making.

Perhaps Oxy can include a link or the PDF here, as one more place to send balz-trippers?
traineraz
QUOTE(hartsmar @ Jun 14 2006, 11:50 AM) *

Well, some of us here are pompous asses and have been for a long time.


And here I thought I was being nice to him. I suppose I COULD have been rude . . .
Jane Avril
Nice that they pointed out that it is wormwood oil, not absinthe, that does any damage.

It seems I read on one of the absinthe forums that people could get wormwood oil from stores like GNC in the US. I could be wrong...I'll check next time I'm over there.

I didn't quote anyone. abs-cheers.gif
ripvanmd
Yeah...I was both happy and sad when I saw the article. I was thinking about writing one myself about how the medical community can unfairly affect society, in sometimes very lasting ways. I thought that absinthe was a great example of this...especially Magnan's flawed experiments and anecdotal data. I ramble. Still may write it...this guy had a helluva reference list though.

Dunno how this will effect US policy, likely not at all. There's effectively no lobby as the distributors/distillers are economic small fries...cheaper shipping would be nice.

Thought you folks may appreciate it, though I am sorry that my little post preceded all the drama.
jacal01
Don't worry, and don't apologize. Some noobs have to be 'beat to fit', independent of thread context. Yours just happened to be this particular inevitable precipitating event.
traineraz
QUOTE(Jane Avril @ Jun 14 2006, 05:33 PM) *



It seems I read on one of the absinthe forums that people could get wormwood oil from stores like GNC in the US.


I never saw it in GNC -- the only herb-type stuff they do is (generally speaking) for bodybuilding/workout stamina. Lotsa ginseng and that sort, but not the single-herb oils or capsules. Concoctions at high prices from "sports nutrition" manufacturers instead.

However, both the wormwood oil and wormwood herb are readily available at just about any health food store. So, if you want to have seizures, just head to the herb shop and pick up a bottle . . .


And rip, what jacal said. Nothing for you to apologize about, and we're all grateful for your posting of this most interesting article! I'm sorry that drama distracted from the article!
hartsmar
QUOTE(traineraz @ Jun 14 2006, 04:00 PM) *

QUOTE(hartsmar @ Jun 14 2006, 11:50 AM) *

Well, some of us here are pompous asses and have been for a long time.


And here I thought I was being nice to him. I suppose I COULD have been rude . . .


It's all in your frame of reference. I thought it was really lame! You can do a whole lot better...
traineraz
Don't make me come over there . . . viking_emoticon.gif
hartsmar
See! Getting you all worked up now! If you hurry, you can join me down to Boveresse.
traineraz
OK, send me a ticket.

(Didn't we go thru this one already?)
hartsmar
Ummm, yeah. Didn't you get the last ticket I sent? First class dammit!
traineraz
That explains my missing tenants.
hartsmar
Bastards.

sixela
QUOTE(PDXAbsinthe @ Jun 14 2006, 05:53 PM) *

well Hartsmar that was better you gave a valid intelligent reason, except for the crescendo at the end. Ill even apologies for having to waste you valuable time..AND band width explaining to this inane Absinthe drinker.


Please correct spelling and grammar.

PDXAbsinthe
I liked the article on the morbid side I though it was interesting that it takes twice the dose to cause convolutions in a male rat than a female.

Wormwood and wormwood extracts are available at specialty herbal shops Ive never seen any at regular heath food stores


Traineraz, its entirely possible I misconstrued you post if so Im sorry and Im sorry for muddying up this thread


Brucer, no I wasnt particularly nice perhaps I got out of the wrong side of the bed yesterday but Ive run into this a few times and Im a relatively new member.


Hartsmar, being an A-hole might be a privilege in Sweden where Im from its a character flaw of socially inept people.


Sixela, if you dont like my spelling dont read my posts or youll need to live with my bad grammar sorry!
heres some spare punctuations as credit & partial payment for my future bad grammar ,,,.????
Donnie Darko
Let him off the hook guys. There's a polite way to correct people, no need to blowtorch him out of the gate. He could be an emoticon whore like Fredie and type LOL everywhere, so it could be a lot worse.

PDX, just so you know, a lot of people here find it annoying when someone quotes a post directly above theirs, or when there are major grammar/punctuation problems with someone's posts as it makes them harder to read. Sixela is the exception, and finds it annoying if there is a single typo in a 500 page novel, but we still love him. In real life he actually writes and speaks in Ebonics most of the time. I didn't make the rules, and they're not really even rules, it just seems to be the majority consensus here of post etiquette, but it also doesn't merit calling anyone an asshole.
jkerouac59
1) Excellent and informative article. Thanks for posting it.

2) I've participated in a few boards (cigar related) previously. Each has its own "culture", not always published in a faq, about how members are expected to "act", subjects that are "taboo", formatting of posting, etc. Longer term members usually act as "enforcers" and often aggressively enforce these "norms". My $.02 is that folks who continually resist direction, after getting a ration of crap for a while, figure it out and fit in, leave or get kicked out. But they more they buck, the more poop.gif they get.

Lots of times, you learn more lurking than posting.

wooperman
I have been searching the forums but with no luck.....does anyone have a link to a site that had results of a German (i think) study, wherein chop.gif levels were tested for various brands? I remember it ultimately showing that there is very little chop.gif in Absinthe. It was not a text only site, there were photos of the absinthes tested.
Gertz
No photos, but this must be the study you're thinking of.
Steyr850
Hartsmar, I think PDX-men has it in for ya.

Looks like a fist-fight for absinthe is the only....Oh sorry, wrong thread.
sixela
The study with pictures is probably this one.


jacal01
Somehow I didn't see sixela's post above.

Nevermind.
traineraz
I thought F.Guy was supposed to be the TomJones-free one. Yet it has more IPB Image than any of them!

No wonder you balz-trippers love it so much.
Jane Avril
It's not unusual.
Jaded Prole
Wormwood oil is quite dangerous and should be avoided in any amount.
Steve
Is F. Guy labeled "amer"? I didn't think so, but I haven't bought any in a few years.
PDXAbsinthe
QUOTE(Steyr850 @ Jun 15 2006, 12:17 PM) *

Hartsmar, I think PDX-men has it in for ya.

Looks like a fist-fight for absinthe is the only....Oh sorry, wrong thread.




NO i really don't ...Id rather see who could drink who under the table abs-cheers.gif
sixela
QUOTE(Spoon @ Jun 16 2006, 04:15 AM) *

Is F. Guy labeled "amer"? I didn't think so, but I haven't bought any in a few years.


No, but it should, given at least three independent tests (including one using the EU legal test).

I doubt anyone is going to make him any trouble, though.
brucer
It's made in France. The French just ignore EU regulations they are not interested in.

Bruce
sixela
They don't (the limit for fenchone is one of the reasons there's no fennel in FG). It is within the EU limit for bitters, and FG could be classified as a bitter.

Which is why I think he gets away with it: all the authorities could obtain from FG if they pressed the issue is a change of label, so why bother?
brucer
The fenchone limit is a French law. The French respect their own laws.

But if the EU law says one thing and French law says something else, then they ignore the EU. That is why it does not say "bitter" on the label.

Bruce
Donnie Darko
My law says the label should say "yuck".
G&C
I would have to agree.
sixela
QUOTE(brucer @ Jun 16 2006, 03:25 PM) *

But if the EU law says one thing and French law says something else, then they ignore the EU.


You apparently don't understand how directives work. EU directives are translated into national legislation, and that is what gives them force of law.

If they aren't, the commission can then sue the different member nations. Member states can also complain about other member states (e.g. arguing that some laws are unacceptable restraints of trade against the Single Market Treaty) to the commission and the courts, and individuals can challenge local legislation (as happened in the Netherlands) when the member states fail to harmonise their laws with European laws.

Actually, the legislation in France that was the translation of the Council of Europe Scientific Committee opinion about chop.gif levels (via a EU directive co-opting that opinion) is the actual law that, in 1988, allowed absinthe in all but the name to be produced again (technically, the absinthe ban is still in force in France, but you have to stamp "ABSINTHE" in big fat letters on your product for it to be "absinthe" under that law these days).

Before the EU Directive, there was simply the ban on absinthe, period, so you can't argue that the French ignored that particular EU directive.

The French did *add* fenchone and pinocamphene limits, but the rest is straight from the Scientific Committee's opinion.
Kirk
Are the limits for fenchone or pinocamphene based on any sound medical reasoning?
PDXAbsinthe
I wonder how much the T in wormwood can fluctuate due to soil quality, temperature, sun light?
traineraz
Wouldn't the question of how much comes over in distillation be more relevant?

(I'll let one of our resident "scienticians" point out the right studies for that info, I forgot where it is.)
PDXAbsinthe
I know the particulars of a still effects flavors and purity and the longer the distillation process is run the greater the tailings or impurities in spirits which impart flavor but I dont know how far an absinthe distiller runs into tailings?

my question, is there is fluctuations in TH concentrations in wormwood obviously if there is lower TH there will be lower TH in the finished products however I dont know if there is much fluctuation??
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