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Kirk
I watched Saddam's hanging today, You can probably guess what I was thinking about;
how it all adds up, the numbers, you know, and what's liberal, and what's conservative.
I was thinking of who has permission, who can, who can't?
It was a formal affair, everyone in black ski masks,
they gave Saddam a silk scarf, to prevent chafing.
Then I saw the noose;
they had tied an ordinary slip knot in a rope and then, (as if realizing how stupid that looked) wrapped a piece of rope around that, hiding it all and trying to make it look like a real noose, but it was just awful.
Donnie Darko
I didn't really care if they executed him or not. I do think that using power to kill large numbers of people is the worst evil in the world, and should be punished as harshly as possible, so I wasn't opposed to his execution. But let's not forget that it was our government that put Saddam in power and rubber stamped Saddam's murder up until he invaded Kuwait. Does one measly hanging wash the blood off of anyone's hands?
Jaded Prole
I won't cheer anyone's death, not even a crumb like Hussein and his murder accomplishes nothing.

The crimes of empire outweigh the crimes of a minor satrap -- we've already surpassed his crimes in Iraq alone. He will not be missed but the question remains, when will our leaders (the ones who installed, funded, supplied, and directed him) be tried?
Zman
That is the biggest bunch of bullshit I have ever heard.
crosby
Fuck, I missed it. Is it on Youtube yet?
Head_prosthesis
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/12/30/...=rss_topstories

At least my old neighbors have some peace.
hartsmar
QUOTE(crosby @ Dec 30 2006, 12:07 PM) *

Fuck, I missed it. Is it on Youtube yet?


HA!
Jaded Prole
QUOTE
That is the biggest bunch of bullshit I have ever heard.


With all due respect, I differ with you. Hussein was a small time monster and had he been torn assunder by Iraqis while he was dodging us, it would have been justice. However, he was our stooge. and for us to invade and try him for what we encouraged him to do with what we sold him, is sheer hypocrisy. Especially when we have killed as many or more Iraqis in the last 3 years as he did in the last 24.

As for Iraq, while some rejoice for the moment, many see it as another crime perpetrated by an occupying force and it's puppet regime.
hartsmar
QUOTE(Jaded Prol @ Dec 30 2006, 02:17 PM) *

Hussein was a small time monster


!??!!?

Your saying that makes YOU a monster. Good fucking God!

Donnie Darko
Yay, Saddam is dead.

When you guys come up with how many lives this whole thing was worth, put that price tag on Saddam's grave, OK?

Executing Saddam is definitely just, but it wasn't worth the price of admission. It's like the Pod Race in Star Wars Episode 1. That one scene was outstanding, but it's in the middle of the movie, which was way too long and had way to many battle scenes, and no matter how much you try to ignore that Jar Jar asshole (Islamic radicals anyone?), he just won't get off the screen. The pod race may have been cool but the movie still stank to high heaven. I tried to tell myself it was a good movie because nobody wants to feel like they've been ripped off, but I knew deep down it wasn't worth the price of admission.

Sadly we can't get a refund for this ticket. The best we can do is try and stop before a sequel is made.
Donnie Darko
QUOTE(hartsmar @ Dec 30 2006, 05:47 PM) *

QUOTE(Jaded Prol @ Dec 30 2006, 02:17 PM) *

Hussein was a small time monster


!??!!?

Your saying that makes YOU a monster. Good fucking God!


Who is a bigger monster? Jaded Prol or the US politicians that supported Saddam's iron fist up until the late 80s and looked the other way when he gassed the Kurds? Here's a clue to helping you with your calculations... one of them merely said something foolish, while the other DID something which resulted in piles of dead people.
Jaded Prole
Pointing our that Hussein was a small time monster, (our small time monster) doesn't trivialize his crimes. It puts them in perspective. This barabaric veil of tears has seen many worse monsters, hell, John Negroponte probably organized more torture and murderd than Hussein. Then there's Kissinger, PW Botha, Pol Pot, Sese Seko . . . Hussein compares more with Chowchesku.

The problem here, at least to me is that if you're running a global empire you can mass murder with impunity but if you're a petty tyrant that ceased to be of use to that empire, you get "justice."


May real justice come to all tyrants and their handlers.
Provenance
QUOTE(Jaded Prol @ Dec 30 2006, 10:23 AM) *

The crimes of empire outweigh the crimes of a minor satrap

I assume you are not of Kurdish heritage.
Zman
QUOTE(Jaded Prol @ Dec 30 2006, 02:17 PM) *

QUOTE
That is the biggest bunch of bullshit I have ever heard.


Especially when we have killed as many or more Iraqis in the last 3 years as he did in the last 24.



Well, now this is the bigger pile of bullshit.
ubu
Donnie,
your post (#10) made my day.
Thanks,
your fan.
crosby
QUOTE(hartsmar @ Dec 30 2006, 12:14 PM) *

QUOTE(crosby @ Dec 30 2006, 12:07 PM) *

Fuck, I missed it. Is it on Youtube yet?


HA!

I don't know about Youtube, but it's on Google Video, four and a half star rating too. We live in amazing times. Sick, but amazing none the less. Just think of all the twisted crap we missed out on seeing through the years. I wonder how many stars the murder of the Czar and his family would have got? A live feed from the Berlin bunker during the final hours? The assassination of Leon Trotsky? We've missed so much.
Jaded Prole
Don't forget the French Revolution and what followed. It is a terrible and sick world but those who commit the greatest crimes often go unpunished.
Kirk
Luckily they wrote down "Beowulf", where the troll terrorizes the country, the golden boy comes in and causes the trolls death, but discovers the troll had a heart, and reason.
Today we deny our enemy has either and it brings us closer to the end.
It's a sad age when a warrior cannot respect or understand his enemy, it's an age of ignorance, greed and introversion.
Jaded Prole


"it's an age of ignorance, greed and introversion."
Said like a poet.

It is the lack of understanding and the denial of the "other's" humanity that allows us to commit such atrocities.
Donnie Darko
QUOTE(ubu @ Dec 31 2006, 01:52 AM) *

Donnie,
your post (#10) made my day.
Thanks,
your fan.


The moral of the story is don't trust anyone named George.
Head_prosthesis
Fuck that shakey camera phone shit. This is the
best part of Google Video: Slick!
crosby
I thought you might like this version.
Head_prosthesis
Ha, I did catch that one. That was the fork in
the road that diverted my attention away from
ol' Pappa Saddam and onto the trail of "japanese oil"

Saddam is reunited with his sons. And me with my penis.
All is good.
Donnie Darko
QUOTE(crosby @ Dec 31 2006, 02:11 PM) *

I thought you might like this version.


If only that were the video Iraqis were rejoicing over...
Kirk
You'd complain if they hung you with a new rope!
Donnie Darko
I'm already hung, but let's strike a compromise.

If the girl in the video hung Saddam, that would have been fucking hot!

Plus, you have to admit if militant Shiites and Sunnies spent more time watching oily Japanese girls, they probably wouldn't be blowing eachother to bits.
crosby
Didn't some of the 9-11 fuckers spend their last night in a strip club? I guess they were just getting frothed up for all those virgins waiting for them in paradise.
Donnie Darko
If they did, it wasn't worth it....
Lord Stanley
QUOTE(Donnie Darko @ Dec 30 2006, 04:50 PM) *

The best we can do is try and stop before a sequel is made.

Damn, I thought this one was the sequel. The first installment received much better reviews, as I recall.
Donnie Darko
They're all sequels these days.
Wild Bill Turkey
Give a guy like that enough rope...
I was surprised he received a suspended sentence.
They were worried there would be a hung jury.
I guess he had just reached the end of his rope.

Lord Stanley
Forget the rope. They should have sentenced him to death by Zidane head butts.
Jaded Prole
Since we never had a right to hold him, he should have been released



in the Shiite section of Baghdad. It would have been worse than hanging but it would have been reaping what he sewed.
Kirk
Maybe a jingo got your baby.
Donnie Darko
Ha!

QUOTE(Jaded Prol @ Jan 3 2007, 10:14 AM) *

Since we never had a right to hold him


Why didn't we have a right to hold him?
Jaded Prole
Because we didn't have a right to invade, we don't have legal jurisdiction in Iraq or any other country and even if we did, we can't chage him with anything our own government isn't complicit in so unless we put Rummy and others on the dock, it's sheer hypocrisy (and the rest of the planet knows it).


This reminds me of an article several months ago about our ships stopping ships in the Persian Gulf and seizing hashish, as if our laws apply globally and we have global jurisdiction. The arrogance involved is astounding!
Kirk
It is arrogant, when you consider that Baghdad alone is a city of nearly 4 million people.
Throw in some of the other large cities, like Nineveh and Babylon and you have a lot of people with broken infrastructure, most of them pissed off, and chaos reigns the day. I was wondering how 60 thousand of our troopers were going to swell up and take control, so I took a look at the census numbers. Most Iraqis are kids and, whether we kick their ass or not, half the population is going to wipe out the other half.
I remember Bush saying that we will leave Iraq as soon as Saddam is removed from power.
We do not have the resources or the time to repair what we broke, trying to do that will only drag us down further.
speedle
Just a quick comment on Saddam, he was a major monster, seriously evil man! I saw a PBS documentary last night, and I had no idea how many of his own countrymen he killed or how many villages he just had removed from the face of the earth.

Of course I know he had nothing to do with 9/11, and really not much to do with international terrorism at all, but it IS better that he is gone. That's all, just better that he's dead. How it is that we came to be able to make him dead, well that's another question, isn't it?
Kirk
Is it better in Iraq, now that he's gone, or better here?
You want to spend food money swatting flies?
speedle
Well, it's better for some people, especially the Kurds. I dunno about the food and the flies... sleepy.gif
Donnie Darko
What's better?

A dictator that sucessfully (albeit brutally) reigned in Shiite fundamentalists or a country in a state of anarchy terrorized by Shiite militias and Sunni retaliatory militias?

Removing Saddam in the way we did was the best thing we could have ever done for REALLY dangerous fucks like Moqtada Al-Sadr. Why would anyone who hates "Islamic Fascism" want to give that guy a birthday present?

Everyone says we're giving the Iraqi people "freedom" and use them being able to vote as evidence. What good is being able to vote when you risk your life by going outside? We're so good at spreading freedom that it has spread thousands of Iraqi refugees out of their own country.

The notion that "freedom" will solve the problems of the Middle East is a Liberal notion, and that's why Kirk is correctly calling supporters of the Iraqi invasion Liberal. The Conservative move would have been to contain Saddam, as the sanctions and inspections were doing. The total disrepair of the Iraqi army and total lack of WMDs proved the sanctions worked and that Saddam was not an imminent threat nor was he in danger of becoming one. The entire invasion was in error, and our continued presence there is a continuation of that error. Those are the plain, hard, cold uncomfortable facts for those gullible enough to believe this was ever a serious fight against "Islamic Fascism". Our fight against "Islamic Fascism" is no more serious than Bush's response to Hurricane Katrina because it was planned and executed by willfully ignorant arrogant people in a bubble who think sprinkling the fairy dust of freedom will solve every problem ever. "We'll be greeted as liberators". "The war will pay for itself". Liars and their lying lies, the biggest lie of all being their own self-delusion!

We have a bigger problem now than Saddam ever was. It's great that he's dead, but the much more dangerous fundamentalists we were supposed to be defeating are alive and well and ripping their country apart.

Shall we continue to send our brave soldiers out to get turned into goo by IEDs or to endure life altering pyschological trauma if they survive with an injury? I admire the bravery of those who are fighting over there, in fact I admire their loyalty so much that I think we need to show them a little loyalty in return and bring them home, and in the future use them when we NEED them (like Afghanistan) instead of just sending them out to die without proper equipment, no exit strategy and no successful security strategy.
Kirk
Stinking liberals,
look; nothing really works, it's a good day when anything somewhat runs,
but time is passing, and you can spend your life remodeling or you can spend it living.
You think you're living in shit, and you want to change it? Fine,
just stay away from mine. Do you think you have time to change the world? Not with my resources,
besides, what makes you think it was so bad before you started up?
I only have the cards I was given, if I let you throw them away, I'm out.
What do you not get about we cannot afford this?
A seed is planted.
A hate is born, one child swears vengeance, one grain of rice,
times 2
times 2
times 2
now it's you, what will you do?
Head_prosthesis
QUOTE(Donnie Darko @ Jan 2 2007, 07:32 AM) *

They're all sequels these days.



You mean franchise?

I like this "Terrorist" franchise. It supplies an indefinite amount
of players, provides US an unlimited market share
and the licensing possibilities are GLOBAL.
Kirk
I'll take 2 no bid contracts and a fried Shiite to go please.
Jaded Prole
They have scores to settle there and we haven 'em here.

Fry me up some neocons and pass the ketchup.
Donnie Darko
I'm partial to deep fried bald eagle wings (isn't every freedom hater?), but to each his own.
crosby
Three arrested in Iraq for making the video of the hanging. Get a rope.
Alan
3 people to make a video? Are you saying that they don't yet have those really small mobile phones in Iraq?
Provenance
QUOTE(Donnie Darko @ Jan 4 2007, 06:23 AM) *

I'm partial to deep fried bald eagle wings

Real Americans refer to those as Freedom Wings.
eric
Down here in Texas we barbeque the whole bird then smother it w/ RED sauce.

That really gets em fightin'.

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