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The Fée Verte Absinthe Forum - The Oldest, Largest, Most Authoritative Absinthe Forum. > Absinthe & Absinthiana > The Absinthe Library
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Wolfgang
There it is...


I got both the old french version and the new translated english version today.

The english version is about twice as thick so for sure it's more than just a translation.

From the little glimpse I took from pages to pages, it seems to be different from other books on the subject. It doesn't stick only to historical facts but it also talk about the modern absinthe revival, modern brands, up to date analysis and the new absinthe fad.

I'll begin with the new version to provide a better review asap.

Brett
I'm still waiting for mine to show up -should be sometime this week. It sounds like a fairly useful volume.
thegreenimp
Excellent!..........Picked mine up at lunchtime,....Loved the "Apache Conference" postcard photo.....Great information, and very enjoyable reading while I should be working.
Artemis
The English version contains a considerable amount of bonus material not available previously; that's why it's bigger.

There's the interview with T.A. Breaux, in which he answers many of the questions that have been posed here and elsewhere.

There's Ian's "Pork ribs" article in full.

There's a buyer's guide.

A restaurant guide.

And information I had never seen before such as that absinthe is "the mother of the Apaches", as that postcard proudly points out.

The book went on sale today at the Louvre, I'm happy to say.
Artemis
I'm not too crazy about the feature that replaces the word "thujoan" with "pork ribs". Could create some hard feelings if Ian were to read it and think I wrote that on purpose.

Misspelling above on purpose, otherwise, there would be nothing but pork ribs.
Kallisti
QUOTE (Artemis @ Sep 24 2003, 02:59 PM)
There's Ian's "Pork ribs" article in full.

haahaaaa!

ha!

sorry. we were playin'... and fergot to change that "feature" back.

but it was worth it. seeing above phrase fall casually out of your mouth.

*dies*
Artemis
Don't change it on my account. It should stay that way, now that I've fallen into the trap, like I do for most of the April Fool's jokes around here, and still don't get the "poll", either ....
thegreenimp
Ummmm! "Pork Ribs"

I don't spraying my monitor, just don't make me spray my Laptop.
Kallisti
Impy, I still have yer Herbsaint Hut planned for the guide...

so you know I didn't forget about ya!
thegreenimp
No problem, I have more info that I need to e-mail, I have label dating info etc.
I need to pull everything together and send it out.
Pataphysician
...or Mother's milk of the apaches? Hey, if you want to see an authentic document of the apaches (French gangsters, that is, not Indians) the movie "Les Vampires" (1915) has a wonderful demonstration of the "Apache Dance" which make a mosh pit look like child's play.
thegreenimp
Great DVD!........I want a girl just like Irma Vep.
Aion
Got my copy yesterday.

Really a great job!

And the druid cooking absinthe... laugh.gif
Pataphysician
The Apache Dance, be sure to click on "Pictures":

http://www.streetswing.com/histmain/z3aposh.htm


pierreverte
>And the druid cooking absinthe

that's actually a swiss la bleue label....(copied from 'asterix and obelix', a french cartoon about the gauls)

the book is now on sale in paris at:
-shakespeare and company
-brentano's
-galignani
-the bookshop of the louvre museum
-lavinia wine store

damn, i'm tired!
Dpanice
I got mine today (autographed, no less!), and while I've thumbed through it already, I can't wait to give it a read...

Thanks for the speedy delivery, Peter!

Daniel
Marc Chevalier


Fred and Ethel Mertz did an Apache dance in an episode of "I LOVE LUCY".

The dance had lost its edge by then ...

Kallisti
I got my copies today, joy!

Also, Peter now has a wee shopping page, guess where?

HERE! http://www.feeverte.net/mythalwaysgreen.html

Shop til you drop...

This page can be found off of the "absinthiana collectibles" page as a link, as well as on the bookwhores absinthe page linked through the guide. or just go to http://www.bookwhores.com


high.gif
Wolfgang
In the introduction, we can read that absinthe was banned in the US and Canada at the same time.

In the french version Canada is not listed.

I also believe (and have read it in more than one canadian press article) that absinthe was never banned in Canada.

So why is it listed in this book ? Did you find some new information I'm not aware of or is it just a mistake ?

Artemis ? Peter ?
pierreverte
funny that you would think it might be a mistake in benoît's book but never you never mentioned that it also appears in marie-claude delahaye's work.

Marc Chevalier


Wolfgang was too gracious to mention it, but he DID notice Mme. Delahaye's comment and he SAILED to France and HANGED HER from a sour apple tree in her museum's own garden. So there!
Wolfgang
I don't care about what other writers wrote, we'r talking about "Absinthe, A Myth Always Green" here in this thread. I haven't read any recent books from Mme Delahaye so I can't comment on those anyway. Does she mention this in her older books ? If it is so, where ?


I'm just asking a question. Is it a mistake or did someone really found some new information about it ?

I say "new information" because in the original book in french Mr Noel doesn't mention Canada so I'm puzzled.


Edit (to explain why it puzzle me) :

I actually asked a few question to the liquor board and the answer was that absinthe is not against the law in Canada (they actually sell Hill's and they would be ready to concider importing better brands if someone bothered to act as a representative). Last year I even went through all the paperwork to find out that it is possible to arrange a private import of Segarra through the SAQ service. The only reason I didn't do it is because I had to order a minimum quantity and pay the huge taxes (my goal was just to check if it was legal to do anyway, not to actually import it).

So ???
Donnie Darko
I assume then Mme. Delahaye was the source for the statement that absinthe was banned in Canada?

Though it's really of little concern to me, I was too busy chuckling at the snide lashing Benoit gave to the so called American Goth crowd. It was particularly witty.

I think many of us here (myself included), have at least some gothic affiliation, but I think the difference between our aesthetic and the one Benoit is describing is that there's a big difference between alterna-teen posturing and those who are mature but find intrigue and beauty in arts and style which exemplify the darker side of human nature. Those people actually have read Baudelaire & Poe and understand them, but also understand that it's wise not to emulate their misery.

Sadly, it's the feigned affected spider web juveniles who perpetuate the absinthe myth even further who seem to get most attention, and they seem to define the term "goth". Perhaps one day they'll at least get to try Absinthe Gorgon w00t1.gif, maybe then they'll see the light...
pierreverte
benoît's response to wolfgang:

> Wolfgang deals with words : absinthe is not formally but technically banned in Canada. But, if Ontario's, Quebec's and British Columbia's liquor control boards allowed modern absinthes only recently, who can says it's permitted in the others?<

first of all, this book is NOT an exact recreation of the original, and if you have the two in your hands, that is obvious.

Remember that benoît worked in close collaboration with M-C D for many years and contributed to and helped write several joint publications (so he knows where to find information, just as she does). in her most recent 2001 edition, 'l'absinthe son histoire', canada is mentioned twice, on pages 279 and 310, so we're in good company trying to understand and interpret what the hell is going on in there.

also, in 1956 a swiss immigrant from the town of boveresse (!) , charles-henri barrelet wanted to recreate a liquor similar to his home-town absinthe in québec and it wasn't until 1971 that he was given approval to sell it. (apéritif 52° BARRELET in bedford, québec).
and it was only a 'liqueur d'anis'. (good luck moonman)
do you think someone from boveresse would have not asked for permission to make an absinthe, if it were legal or if anyone really knew that it was never banned?

obviously the laws in canada are just as screwed up as those in france and to debate over this is really a little 'enculer une mouche', don't you think?
Perruche_verte
QUOTE (Donnie Darko @ Sep 25 2003, 08:41 PM)
Sadly, it's the feigned affected spider web juveniles who perpetuate the absinthe myth even further who seem to get most attention

But they're so cuuuuute...

http://www.robotstories.com/rs307.shtml
Donnie Darko
yeah, they are cute, aren't they? hula-1.gif
Can't knock them too much as I usually end up dating them!
celticgent
Unintentionally hilarious:
Click Me!
Artemis
QUOTE
So why is it listed in this book ? Did you find some new information I'm not aware of or is it just a mistake ? Artemis ? Peter ?


I translated what was given to me to translate, which was not the French book itself, but the text, already transcribed to a word processing format, which was done in France to make it easier for me to work on it. Therefore I can't comment on what was in the French book; as I never saw it.

As for the accuracy of translation, I did make some mistakes, but what you mention was not one of them. If it says that in the English book, it says the same in the material I was given to translate.

I can't comment on the accuracy of claims about the legality of absinthe in Canada, as I have never looked into it myself.
Kallisti
Peter, I made you a cute banner that now graces the forum and front page of the site respectively.

watching.gif
whtrom
Has anyone ever purchased the Absinthe czech strong? I want to know if I made a good choice.
Kallisti
whtrom, just a friendly note, this post should have been made in the "absinthe brands" section, not in an existing thread about a new book on absinthe blink.gif

secondly, unfotunately, "Strong" is indeed one of the vilest conconctions out there. but do not give up hope!!! after you've cleared the drain with it you can move on to something ALOT more palatable.

please remember, absinthe doesn't have to taste bad to be good.


now, to figure out how to move single posts.... DINKY HEEEELP!!!
Brett
I came home from dropping my wife off at work to find a "Post Export" mailer shoved haphazardly into the mailbox.

This book is quite interesting; I've only glanced over it, but it will be a good read.

Anyone else get a re-print on an Emile Pernot label in their copy?
Wolfgang
Thanks for your reply Peter.

I agree with you that debating over legal issues like these is really 'une enculade de mouches', we better leave it to the lawyers.

It is clear that someone who wish to start a distillery (absinthe or not) in most parts of the world should plan to hire a lawyer to take care of the legal paperwork, otherwise someone can easily pass the rest of his life in this bureaucratic maze.

Anyway, this legal question will be answered by Moonman's lawyer as soon as he will be ready to invest his firsts dollars on the business (Moonman told me he actually plan to "waste" his entire retirement money just on legal expenses ! ).

To sell alcohol someone needs two kind of people : lawyers and marketing guys. A fine craftman (and a still) is unfortunately optional. Hill's is a good proof of this. This is a sad sad world.
Rimbaud
QUOTE (Brett @ Sep 26 2003, 01:41 PM)
Anyone else get a re-print on an Emile Pernot label in their copy?

Not me... *sniff*
Brett
Shoved in between pages 138 and 139 -the Un Emile section, how odd - is a small color reprint of the 1903 Emile Pernot label (or should I say, Pernot Emile).

Is it a mistake? Do I win something? Is it a sign? Am I supposed to order something from LDF?
Dpanice
QUOTE (Brett @ Sep 26 2003, 12:41 PM)
Anyone else get a re-print on an Emile Pernot label in their copy?


I did!!

In the same clever spot you found yours...

QUOTE (Brett @ Sep 26 2003, 12:41 PM)
Is it a mistake? Do I win something? Is it a sign? Am I supposed to order something from LDF?


Ha...it must be a sign...then again, I could probably justify anything as a sign of the need to place another LDF order these days.

When I thanked Peter and inquired as to its origin, he kindly provided me with this bit of history & picture:

"the label is a reprint made recently by the pernots from an original 1903 copper printing plate found in the family's belongings (see attchement)"
Rimbaud
Very fucking cool.
Wolfgang
I wonder if they could legaly use it on their bottles. I guess Pernod Ricard would put a lawsuit against it. Anyway, it makes a cool bookmark.
sixela
QUOTE (Wolfgang @ Sep 27 2003, 02:58 AM)
I wonder if they could legaly use it on their bottles. I guess Pernod Ricard would put a lawsuit against it. Anyway, it makes a cool bookmark.

Of course they could -- they're the successors of interest (i.e.: it really is their label). After all, it's hard not to guess from the distillery's name "Les Fils d'Emile Pernot".

Note: it's Emile Pernot (with "t"), not Pernod Fils (with D).

Of course Pernod could sue them under trademark law over the ambiguous name, but Pernod-Ricard can't really claim they've exercised due diligence in protecting their trademark from that particular infringement (for more than a century). It's about a century late for that (and would've been hard if Emile Pernot was the gentleman's real name).
pierreverte
yes, pernod-ricard will sue if the old name is used, that is why it is called 'un émile'.
yes, the original founder's name was émile pernot (actually he was hired by the distillerie 'parrot fils' BECAUSE they wanted to use his name on the label to screw with pernod fils, but émile eventually started his own distillery), and his great-grandson gérard-émile pernot is the one who makes it now. ironic about the shift in quality.
TaLi
heh pirate2.gif
Artemis
From Pernod's 1896 publicity booklet:

"All the large firms have been wounded by homonyms; all, at some time, have seen arise in their vicinity, sometimes in the same town, individuals hitherto unknown in industry, without special knowledge, without money but with by sheer chance the advantage of bearing a respected name ..."

"Did we not see a simple stable boy named Pernod making money by authorizing a manufacturer of absinthe in Drome to plaster his name on their labels! ..."

"Even more recently a distiller of Doubs, under pretext of a contract signed by a traveling salesman named Pernot, seized the name and flooded Paris and the province with his product which, evidently, would have gone over with great difficulty without this trickery."

Indeed ironic that the pretender is on the other side of the bar a century later.

thegreenimp
"You say Pernod",...... "I say Pernot",....... "You say Absinthe",..... "I say Sprituex Aux Extraits De Plantes D' Absinthe",.......Let's Call The whole thing Off".

Make a nice reworking of that old song......... w00t1.gif
I_B_Puffin
LOL w00t1.gif
sixela
QUOTE (pierreverte @ Sep 28 2003, 01:55 AM)
yes, pernod-ricard will sue if the old name is used, that is why it is called 'un émile'.
yes, the original founder's name was émile pernot (actually he was hired by the distillerie 'parrot fils' BECAUSE they wanted to use his name on the label to screw with pernod fils, but émile eventually started his own distillery), and his great-grandson gérard-émile pernot is the one who makes it now. ironic about the shift in quality.

I can believe they called it "Un Emile" out of caution. I can even believe Pernod-Ricard could possibly sue.

OTOH, I don't think they'd *win* that particular court battle. Unless Pernod demonstrates they took all the necessary steps to defend their trademark in the 19th/20th century against that particular resembling name.

Of course, if they *can* indeed demonstrate they have exercised due diligence in protecting that trademark back then (under the laws at that time), that's quite a different story.

IANAL, though (I am not A Lawyer). Any trademark lawyers around?
pierreverte
pernod-ricard would sue and win, no problem, with the laws in the EU and france now.
Artemis
QUOTE
Unless Pernod demonstrates they took all the necessary steps to defend their trademark in the 19th/20th century against that particular resembling name.


The Pernod company that existed in the 19th century was well known for defending its trademark against any and all comers, including every possible permutation of plays on their name. Unless those court records have disappeared, such a demonstration would be as simple as placing them before a judge who can read.
sixela
QUOTE (Artemis @ Sep 29 2003, 06:06 PM)
QUOTE
Unless Pernod demonstrates they took all the necessary steps to defend their trademark in the 19th/20th century against that particular resembling name.


The Pernod company that existed in the 19th century was well known for defending its trademark against any and all comers, including every possible permutation of plays on their name. Unless those court records have disappeared, such a demonstration would be as simple as placing them before a judge who can read.

I see -- well, that explains a lot, then. I was wondering where the Un Emile got that rather bizarre name.
pierreverte
>I was wondering where the Un Emile got that rather bizarre name.

its great-grandpa...at the end of the absinthe era, each distiller wanted his absinthe to be ordered by a pet-name in the cafe...'un pernod'! garçon! un berger, un premier, un junod, etc...this brand name follows that tradition...'un émile'! with a twist...originally, it would be 'un pernot'! but was that 'un pernod' or 'un pernot'? (it's the same pronunciation in french)...which ever gave the boss the best profit...very illegal in france today....
louched liver
Cool, really.
Scumbags always be dealin'.
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