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The Fée Verte Absinthe Forum - The Oldest, Largest, Most Authoritative Absinthe Forum. > Absinthe & Absinthiana > Vintage Absinthe
Oxygenee
Around a year ago, I gave a few small samples from this bottle to some friends here on the forum. I didn't keep a list of who got what, but if you were one of the recipients, please contact me. If you haven't yet drunk the contents of your sample bottle, please don't do so before speaking to me.
Nymphadora
Sounds ominous. blink.gif
Oxygenee
There's no problem at all, as long as you already read Braille.
Marc
That clandestine contains 20g thuyone per liter so Oxy wants to warn people he gave samples to.
Oxy, you know they're already mentally and physically handicapped so why twisting the knife in the wound ?
Zombie3.gif
Oxygenee
Actually, with this one the thujone is the least of your problems...
crosby
The sample you sent me was shared at LCLF '04. shock.gif
hartsmar
That explains a lot.

The Standard Deviant
Tasty, aged—I mean, denatured, alcohol?
Oxygenee
Let's just say the alcohol turned out not to be...sparkling clean.
Oxygenee
QUOTE(crosby @ Apr 2 2007, 07:59 PM) *

The sample you sent me was shared at LCLF '04. shock.gif


Ah...a lot of things about the Lounge have suddenly snapped into focus.
crosby
The fast track to becoming the essence of mean, crazy drunk.
Lord Stanley
If this thread had been started yesterday, I'd be really suspicious. dry.gif
pierreverte
...™
Absomphe
QUOTE(Lord Stanley @ Apr 2 2007, 05:46 PM) *

If this thread had been started yesterday, I'd be really suspicious. dry.gif


I'm sure that's why Oxy posted it today.

Always leave'em wonderin'...
TommyGun
QUOTE(Oxygenee @ Apr 2 2007, 11:17 AM) *

Let's just say the alcohol turned out not to be...sparkling clean.



As in Windex?
crosby
QUOTE(pierreverte @ Apr 2 2007, 05:12 PM) *

...™

Prexactly!
traineraz
LCLF04 . . . wasn't that the year Liver Met the Radiator?

Wait, I was at that one . . . shock.gif

And I thought it was just a hangover!

QUOTE
Clinical Course
Initial symptoms of methanol poisoning may appear as soon as 12 hours post-ingestion, but usually develop 24 hours after ingestion. These may resemble ethanol intoxication and consist of drowsiness, confusion, and ataxia, as well as weakness, headache, nausea, vomiting, and abdominal pain. Collectively, these symptoms may mimic an alcohol hangover and are due to mild intoxication, caused by methanol itself.

As methanol metabolism proceeds, a severe anion gap metabolic acidosis will develop. Severe metabolic acidosis in conjunction with visual effects are the hallmark of methanol poisoning. Patients usually describe blurred or misty vision, double vision, or changes in color perception. There my be constricted visual field and, occasionally, total loss of vision. Characteristic visual dysfunctions include pupillary dilation and loss of pupillary reflex (Burkhart 1990; Suit 1990).

Further signs and symptoms may be shallow respiration, cyanosis, tachypnea, coma, seizures, electrolyte disturbances, and various hemodynamic changes including profound hypotension and cardiac arrest. There may be mild to profound loss of memory, confusion, and agitation, which may progress to stupor and coma as the severity of the acidosis increases (Suit 1990). In severe cases, death is possible. Surviving patients can be left with permanent blindness or with other neurological deficits (Jacobsen 1997).
G&C
QUOTE(Oxygenee @ Apr 2 2007, 03:54 AM) *
Around a year ago, I gave a few small samples ...


LCLF04 was 3 years ago.
traineraz
Crosby has a time machine. That's how he got it to LCLF04.
thegreenimp
Considering the antidote is ethanol, everybody here should be safe.
Oxygenee
As part of an unrelated project, I recently had the opportunity to have several dozen absinthes, some vintage, some modern, analysed for methanol content. The overall results were that the quality of the alcohol in most vintage absinthes was surprisingly good, on a par with modern absinthes. Most of the samples tested in the range 5-20mg methanol per 100ml of ethanol. This included btw, several different bottles from the 1914 cache.

There was only one outlier, a bottle of green absinthe dated 1953, from clandestine production in the Val-de-Travers. I obtained this bottle several years ago from a very reliable source in Couvet, and it's to date the only "vintage" clandestine absinthe I've ever found. Over the years, I gave (not sold) a few samples to friends here on the forum. The absinthe had a markedly funky taste, which I ascribed to a distillation pushed too hard, as is often the case with clandestine La Bleues. It didn't specifically occur to me that the origin of the alcohol could be a problem, as La Bleue, certainly from the late 1970's, was routinely made with highly rectified spirit purchased from official Swiss sources. I assumed the same situation had applied in the 1950's.

So it was a surprise, to put it mildly, to find that the methanol content of this '53 Verte was off the scale - 3143mg/100ml - more than three times the EU limit of 1000mg/100ml, and more than 60 times the defacto commercial standard of 50mg/100ml. This level of methanol is not possible simply from poorly rectified wine spirits - it indicates without doubt that this absinthe was made from denatured alcohol. Denatured alcohol is industrial alcohol which has been rendered unfit for human consumption, so as to escape the usual taxes on drinking alcohol. The most common form is methylated spirits, which is dosed with 5% methanol (and usually other substances as well). Because it's virtually tax free as opposed to highly taxed food-grade alcohol it's always been attractive to moonshiners, and periodically there are casualties from its consumption, usually in Russia, Eastern Europe and the Third World. There are absolutely no cases documented in the scientific literature of methanol poisoning in Switzerland.

It's important to note that the level of methanol in this sample - 1.6% - while very worryingly high, is not quite at a toxic level. Paine and Davan, in their 2001 paper, concluded that if an adult consumed 4x25-ml of a drink containing 40% vol of alcohol over a period of 2 h, the maximum tolerable concentration of methanol in such a drink would be 2%/vol. Fortunately the concentration in this absinthe was 20% below this level, the samples I sent out were very small, and the absinthe would have been diluted further with water before drinking; so no harm could be done, even in theory. I drank two or three glasses myself from the bottle over the years with no ill-effects. Nonetheless, this is a sobering reminder that non-commercial alcohol should always be treated with extreme caution.
Marc
QUOTE(Oxygenee @ Apr 3 2007, 10:20 AM) *

I drank two or three glasses myself from the bottle over the years with no ill-effects.

[no comment]
Oxygenee
With the benefit of hindsight of course, the unusual louche should have rung a warning bell.
G&C
Although it is very pretty.
crosby
QUOTE(G&C @ Apr 2 2007, 09:10 PM) *

QUOTE(Oxygenee @ Apr 2 2007, 03:54 AM) *
Around a year ago, I gave a few small samples ...


LCLF04 was 3 years ago.

Three years is around a year ago.
G&C
When compared to a century, I guess it is.
crosby
I don't remember taking pictures, butt they are labeled right.
brucer
QUOTE
more than three times the EU limit of 1000mg/100ml,


The EU limit is 1% methanol in alcohol !!!!!!! shock.gif shock.gif

Glad to know the de facto industry standard is 20 times stricter.

Have I got my maths wrong ? If I haven't, that puts the pork-chop limit in a new perspective. sleepy.gif

Bruce
Oxygenee
Since you never drink 100% ethanol, the percentage in practice is different. The EU limit is expressed as 10g/hl of pure alcohol, which equates to 0.4%/vol methanol at 40%/vol alcohol.

This is well within the safety limit, but is indeed much higher than the usual commercial standard. It was set at this level in response to lobbying from the Portuguese government - apparently much traditionally made Portuguese fruit spirit has high (but not toxic) methanol levels.
brucer
Thanks for the info about traditional Portugese fruit sprit !!!


Bruce
Jaded Prole
Nothing that can't be rectified but it's good to know.
Le Gimp
"The EU limit is expressed as 10g/hl of pure alcohol, which equates to 0.4%/vol methanol at 40%/vol alcohol."

My math befuddles me.

10gr/HL
1HL = 100L
10gr/100 = 0.1gr
0.1gr/L = 100ppm wrt pure alcohol.

0.1gr * 40% alcohol = 0.04gr/L = 0.00004gr/gr = 0.004%

Shouldn't it be 0.004%/vol methanol at 40%/vol alcohol?
Oxygenee
Nope, stick to your day job. harhar.gif
Le Gimp
“the EU limit of 1000mg/100ml, and more than 60 times the defacto commercial standard of 50mg/100ml.”

“Since you never drink 100% ethanol, the percentage in practice is different. The EU limit is expressed as 10g/hl of pure alcohol, which equates to 0.4%/vol methanol at 40%/vol alcohol.”

First you say

"1000mg/100ml" which is 10g/L

Then you say

"10g/HL".

The factor of 100 difference in these two statements is what threw me.

Is the standard 10gr methanol per 100L or 10gr methanol per one L?

I suspect the former.
Marc
Don't worry, we'll take care of Oxy's convalescence in Boveresse, he needs some rest.
Jaded Prole
Methanol takes its toll.
Provenance
QUOTE(Jaded Prol @ Apr 4 2007, 12:24 PM) *

Methanol takes its troll.

???
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