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The Fée Verte Absinthe Forum - The Oldest, Largest, Most Authoritative Absinthe Forum. > Absinthe & Absinthiana > Absinthe Brands Discussion
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eric
I posed this question some time ago.

http://www.feeverte.net/forum/index.php?sh...mp;#entry130770



As you can see it was soundly dismissed by a number of the "experts" over here.



Last weekend a friend gave me a sample of the newest Prototype. I decided to try a test.

Last Sunday I put about one ounce into a clear glass vial and placed it in a sunny spot in my backyard.

The sample developed a small amount of sediment over the past six days but is still pretty much the same shade of green that it was a week ago.



Yesterday morning I placed an ounce of a vert that I know is naturally colored right next to the first one.

After one day in the hot Texas sun it is completely clear and has lost almost all of its color. It could pass for a blanche now.



I will need to borrow a digital camera from a friend but I hope to be able to post pics soon.



Any comments?



louched liver
Empiricism rules.
absinthist
It must have been somehow artficially enhanced. Some people know that at 60% vol the green is very very fragile and will disappear quick (from my own experience I can say it is the matter of days, if exposed to strong sun-hours), with rouge, on the other hand, the colour is more stable.

Even Duplais was writing about 65% vol as a faible percentage for colouration, but many of "experts" seem to never have read it thoroughly. Thus, I agree with Eric that there is something un-traditional going on.
eric
Click to view attachment



On the left, unexposed and exposed Prototype.

On the right, unexposed and exposed naturally colored vert.

Donnie Darko
Well, there you have it. Apparently the Duplais colour is unnaturally augmented, though the sediment indicates it's at least partially natural. I don't think Swiss law allows for ANY absinthe to be artificially coloured, if I remember their laws correctly. Maybe Duplais Balance and prototypes are export only?

absinthist
Having analyzed both thoroughly, it seems that after a while Proto is not losing its primary vibrant green, and after exposure is there is only the slighest change in hue, if any whereas naturally coloured verte is less vibrant with slight yellowish tinge and after exposure looks similar to one absinthe I have exposed to sun.
So, something artificial is going on and no one has informed the customers that it will be so.
SoulShade
I love it around here.
Lord Stanley
Coming this fall...CSI:Austin
OMG_Bill
Interesting test.

Any difference in taste or other properties used in reviews?

Cheers!
G&C
QUOTE(Lord Stanley @ Jun 16 2007, 06:11 PM) *
Coming this fall...CSI:Austin

Not another one of those?
Lord Stanley
This one is all absinthe, all the time.
Not just cameo appearances like those other CSI's.
G&C
Right.
louched liver
Oh, dear.
wooperman
QUOTE(absinthist @ Jun 16 2007, 03:18 PM) *

So, something artificial is going on and no one has informed the customers that it will be so.

It's not listed in the mission statement, that is, informing the customers of things.
absinthist
And it speaks for themselves, not in favour, of course. By launching Balance and H.R.Giger de Brevans they have approached different dimension and moved a bit from tradition.
wooperman
I at one time had two different bottles of Duplais, they were entirely different colors. One looked fake...I wont say it is, but it looked so. I tried to talk to the CEO about it...but to no avail.
Absomphe
The sample of version one Duplais that I received went from an olivish green to a full dead leaf brown in a matter of a couple of days, and it was stored in complete darkness.

That color must have been all natural.
absinthist
Good testimonial. It is obvious that any decent absinthe will change its colour within time and strive to feuille morte, if some feuille morte deniers will never approve of that FACT and start bringing their propaganda anew.

From my own experience, I can add that all of naturally-coloured absinthes I have had had transformed beautifully from olive green/yellowish green/peridot to perfect amber with greenish tinge, fitting the line of feuille morte.
louched liver
From my own experience-
Any absinthe in front of
me gets drank.
absinthist
Thus keep it up, it is less stressful than looking how the colour changes.
louched liver
And who has
the time?
Jaded Prole
I have some Jade Edouard several years old that hasn't lost it's color. Also some noncomercial that hasn't after almost a year. Colorfastness depends on many factors.
Provenance
QUOTE(eric @ Jun 16 2007, 07:03 AM) *

Any comments?

If the prototype is at all like the Balance, artificial coloring is the least of its flaws.
sixela
We went to the Matter-Ligunbühl distillery yesterday, and Oliver Matter's really proud of his colouring - he's got a coloured portion of alambic brut in a small uncoulored phial that has been sitting there for more than a year, and it's still green.

He claims it's entirely natural, and from all the products produced there (and not only the absinthe - their Kallnacher absinthe is so-so at best, but they make kick-ass prune and pear eau-de-vies¹) I have no reason to doubt him, and I don't give in to conspiracy theories (certainly not any which involve fraudulent labeling).

I have a #27 prototype that also can't seem to lose colour, and that one's definitely naturally coloured (you still can't taste anything but the colouring herbs in that one, after much more than a year).

The prototypes before that one went feuille morte and worse (drab brown) without blinking.

--
¹See, Oxy: I can leave things untranslated when I want to do it.
hartsmar
Indeed. I have no doubt that the products are naturally colored.

It would be very unwise to try and sell products with artificial coloring agents without printing it on the label. Law requires it and you'd be out of business in no time if you did anything like that.

fryke
Again: In Switzerland, law says it can't be sold as _absinthe_ if it's artificially coloured. And quite certainly, the Duplais and Brevans product ranges _are_ sold as absinthe here in Switzerland. Rightfully so, I'd say. I've heard _so_ much bu*****t about how one sees that some absinthes are artificially coloured in recent years. People even talked about how Pernod 68 (that modern one) looked artificially coloured at the _very_ first sight. Then you put PF 1901 next to it and it looks the same before, during and after water.

Keep the Duplais or prototype in a bottle for ten or twenty years. I'm pretty darn sure it'll change colour eventually.
Provenance
How exacting is the Swiss defintion of natural? Would a naturally-colored absinthe with a stabilizer added count as natural? What about adding a "natural" green substance in addition to chlorophyll?
fryke
I guess I remembered it wrong. Nothing about coloration in the article at all... Hm. Sorry. wink.gif The following translation by google and myself (I helped a little).

"Art. 423a LMV: Absinthe
Absinthe is a ["Spirituose", i.e. liquor] made from ethyl alcohol of agricultural origin or from a distillate of agricultural origin that:

a. is aromatized with wormwood (Artemisia absinthium L.) or its extracts in connection with other plants or plant extracts such as anise, fennel etc.;

b. is manufactured by maceration and destillation;

c. has a bitter taste and smells of anise or fennel; and

d. results in a cloudy beverage when mixed with water."

But having talked to Oliver in the past, I don't get the feeling that he would sell any of the Duplais/Brevans with artificial colourants or stabilisation helpers. It was him who told me that an artificially coloured absinthe mustn't be called absinthe in Switzerland.
Bruno Rygseck
Bad picture of both Balance and Proto 30 -- both have changed color. Prototype 30 (thirty, pre-Balance, that is) on the right was opened about 9 months ago and the Balance is from lot 01/07 (January this year) and opened 2 weeks ago.
Donnie Darko
Well, Matter is doing SOMETHING to it to get it to hold colour at 60% for as long as it does. Maybe he adds Resin Du Gaiac or a modern counterpart or something, but any absinthe coloured the standard way where you heat it then add the usual herbs then filter is not going to hold colour for long at 60%. If he says he doesn't use any artificial colours then I believe him, but I think he's doing something that isn't all that common by modern standards.
The Standard Deviant
Perhaps Markus and Matter are just good at their job? The Jade I have doesn't seem to fade so much either.
fryke
That I don't fight. But to cry "artificial!" is different from trying to find out what herb-combination or process could've been used.
QUOTE(Donnie Darko @ Jun 18 2007, 11:10 PM) *

Well, Matter is doing SOMETHING to it to get it to hold colour at 60% for as long as it does.

Marc
QUOTE(The Standard Deviant @ Jun 19 2007, 12:02 AM) *

Perhaps Markus and Matter are just good at their job?

They are good at barbecue parties btw !

Thank you guys for the sausages, you are really nice hosts abs-cheers.gif
sixela
QUOTE(mthuilli @ Jun 19 2007, 12:05 AM) *

QUOTE(The Standard Deviant @ Jun 19 2007, 12:02 AM) *

Perhaps Markus and Matter are just good at their job?

They are good at barbecue parties btw !


And the good thing about an eau-de-vie distillery is that the owners have awesome™ strawberries.
fryke
I've just been pointed to http://www.admin.ch/ch/d/sr/8/817.022.31.de.pdf where page 122 says that absinthe (among other stuff like whisky...) mustn't be coloured with the listed colourants. Guess they'd have a similar french version of this document which I've linked to in German. Too tired to find the link right now. wink.gif
eric
QUOTE(The Standard Deviant @ Jun 18 2007, 05:02 PM) *
Perhaps Markus and Matter are just good at their job?




No one is good enough that they can defy the laws of physics.



Chlorophyll is very delicate and sensitive to light exposure. The only way to keep chlorophyll from breaking down is to keep it in a dark place. I cannot imagine that even clever guys like Markus can make chlorophyll impervious to sunlight.



If direct and prolonged exposure to sunlight does not break down the green color, It cannot be chlorophyll.
traineraz
Are there natural-source green dyes that do not use chlorophyll?
Icarus
QUOTE
The Jade I have doesn't seem to fade so much either.



That's because it's in a dark bottle.
Put it in a clear vial, in the sun, and it will fade.

Eric is right.
You can't cheat the laws of physics.
Kirk
QUOTE
Are there natural-source green dyes

Depends
on what you call natural.
wooperman
Yes, MSG occurs naturally in parmesean cheese and other things.

Don't be shocked by the people you trust in the absinthe $ game. Tricks are always afoot. Follow the money trail and usually you will find people who cut corners. My questions about coloring only got me "sorry, industry secret"...If one knows the producers they should ask before going to the gut feeling.

traineraz
QUOTE(Kirk @ Jun 18 2007, 08:05 PM) *

QUOTE
Are there natural-source green dyes

Depends
on what you call natural.

I mean things they can legally call natural.

In a sense, everything is natural. I've yet to meet someone who's made something from nothing.
Icarus
I used to date a girl that was very good at turning nothing into something...
traineraz
Made a mountain out of yer molehill, eh?
Provenance
E142 is narural since its made from organic, all natural coal tar. E141 is even better, made from "Copper complexes of Chlorophyll." What could be more natural?
traineraz
Sounds natural to me.

Cheers.
sixela
QUOTE(Provenance @ Jun 19 2007, 05:46 PM) *

E142 is narural since its made from organic, all natural coal tar. E141 is even better, made from "Copper complexes of Chlorophyll." What could be more natural?


They're not on the label, and neither is "coal tar".

Provenance
I'm not familiar with Swiss labeling regulations but in the US, labels can conceal as well as reveal.
Provenance
Something is keeping the Balance, et. al. green under conditions (low alcohol, direct sunlight) where that would not normally occur.
absinthist
E140-Chlorophyll (chlorophyllin) is completely natural if unstable and fades quickly.

E142 is synthetic, whereas E150a-caramel is one of the most natural and stable colours used in the spirits industry since...I do not know harhar.gif

Still, even if they are used, they should be mentioned on the label.
sixela
QUOTE

Something is keeping the Balance, et. al. green under conditions (low alcohol, direct sunlight) where that would not normally occur.

Entirely possible, but it's probably not an E-class additive added directly.
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