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Neptunati
http://zeitgeistmovie.com/index.html
bob_chong
That's pretty funny.

Should be called "Tin Foil Hat, The Movie."
Provenance
Or it's a new ad for Marteu.
Neptunati
QUOTE(bob_chong @ Oct 25 2007, 05:00 PM) *

That's pretty funny.

Should be called "Tin Foil Hat, The Movie."




Typical trash it before you watch it.
Neptunati
I found this else where___look below




February 6, 2007 10:02 AM

I've raised this point repeatedly here, and elsewhere with conspiracy theorists. Not one has attempted to address it.

1) Consider how fiendishly complex and precise the demolition-design required to bring down the WTC towers would be. Have you ever seen inside a bog-standard 20-floor tower block that's about to be brought down? Multiply that exponentially. We're talking literally hundreds of detonators, each precisely located within inches, and timed to milliseconds. We also need miles of cable to join it all up. (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and not ask why none of this stuff was found)

2) Consider the consequences if this operation went wrong and only partial detonation occurred, leaving half a tower and shed-loads of evidence. That's not a risk you're going to take, is it? Think about it - not only evidence that you were trying to demolish the towers, but a dead giveaway that the planes were a red herring, with all that implies. Ask yourself again - is that a risk you're going to take?

3) Consider the damage that is bound to be done to your fragile, volatile and very carefully located demolition equipment when you (a) fly a goddam airliner into at at 300mph (b) let a jet fuel fire burn all over it for the best part of an hour. Even if (and it's a very very large if) you know where the plane is going to hit and how fast, and even if (even bigger) you can adjust for that,the course of the fire is not predictable.

If you can build a demolition-design that can survive that, 100% guaranteed, TWICE (oh, and with the planes impacting in two different locations don't forget), and still function perfectly, you're not a demolitionist, you're a magician. But please, post here telling me how you'd do it.

It simply doesn't hold up.

The rest of the conspiracy falls down around it



1 the charges could of been planted long before September 11, 01 . Steel could of been pre cut. Also there were plenty of eyewitnesses that heard, felt and seen these "demo charges going off".

2 The operation didn't go wrong. And your dead give away is the explosives residue found on debris from ground zero.

3 Whom ever did this inside job could of used radio controlled detonators, no cable needed. lets not forget the eye witnesses to these explosions! More to come my fellow debunker's……..
Donnie Darko
Bob was right about the Tin Foil hat.

1) Buildings aren't demolished from the top down. The towers fell from the top down. Rather than make shit up about impossible ways to blow up buildings, read what Mark Loizeaux, the top demolitionist in the world said about it. The explosives manufacturing technology necessary to demolish the WTC towers does not exist, according to him. He actually blows up buildings for a living and holds the world record for the largest building ever imploded, which by the way is less than 1/2 as big as the WTC. Maybe next you'll tell Stephen Hawking he's wrong about Black Holes?

2) Explosive residue? Which test concluded that? Let me guess, you're going to cite the fired and discredited Stephen Jones and the thermite/thermate theory. Puhleeeze.

3) What about all the eyewitnesses that saw the fucking planes hitting the fucking towers? I'm one of them. Don't we count? I saw the whole thing from the street, and I didn't hear any explosions (except when the 2nd plane hit), certainly nothing remotely like the synchronized sequence of dozens of blasts that are the consistent sonic fingerprint of a REAL demolition. Doesn't my eyewitness testimony count?

QUOTE
More to come my fellow debunker's


Hopefully the 3rd grader who wrote that will come back after he has learned proper use of an apostrophe.




There is a VAST consensus among metallurgists, demolitionists, engineers, airline pilots, air traffic controllers, fire experts, numerous PHDs, etc, and they all have concluded that 9/11 was not a controlled demolition. Are you going to trust a bunch of paranoid armchair speculators over mountains of qualified professionals?

The 9/11 conspiracy hypothesis is the opposite of science. I can hear the X-Files theme music now…

There WAS a 9/11 conspiracy. It was a conspiracy hatched by Muslims who thought they were doing what their god told them to do. They even said so. End of story™.

I know who you are. Pay attention to your own signature and stop promoting non-science that absolves Islamic radicals of the blame for 9/11. I suggest you read the transcripts from the cockpit voice recorder of United 93, and then I dare you to come back and tell us that somebody other than Jihadist assholes pulled off 9/11.
Donnie Darko
QUOTE(bob_chong @ Oct 25 2007, 05:00 PM) *

That's pretty funny.

Should be called "Tin Foil Hat, The Movie."


I'm looking forward to Zeitgeist, the video game. That will be AWESOME!
hobgoblin
If the Twin Towers were indeed blown up by explosives, and planes crashing into them were red herrings, then why bother with the explosives? Why not just let the red herrings do the job for you?

Would it really have mattered if the planes had not taken out the whole towers, but just knocked off the top 20 floors or so without the total collapse of the towers? Of course not, the resulting public outrage, fear and desire for revenge would have been the same.

So why go to the bother, and risk, of using explosives? If the planes had missed you couldn't have blown up the buildings anyway, since your cover would not be there. If the planes hit the buildings then you wouldn't need to blow them up since there would be sufficient damage and death caused (even if the whole buildings didn't collapse as they did) to generate the required public feelings and response.

The conspiracy theory just doesn't make sense.
The Standard Deviant
There's the missing gold!
Artemis
"the charges could of been planted long before September 11, 01"

And nobody noticed.

"Steel could of been pre cut."

Every heard steel being cut? That's what I thought.

"Also there were plenty of eyewitnesses that heard, felt and seen these "demo charges going off"

All of whom had vast experience in this area, I presume. Plenty of eyewitnesses have been probed in the ass by aliens as well.

I wouldn't even bother replying to this trash, except it needs to pointed out that this was ever a forum full of liberals and never a forum full of morons. Whenever people as diverse as Darko and Hobgoblin on one side, and me and Chong on the other side think you're an idiot, you're sunk. You insult everybody here by bringing that shit in here. Fuck off with it.
Donnie Darko
Oh snap!
Kirk
Seriously, if you're a child, get out of here, if you're not a child, then what Artemis said.
Kirk
I don't think you're a bad person Neptunati, all I'm saying is, look at the towers falling, there are no detonations; it's smooth, it's graceful, it's predictable .
Consider the depth and breadth of foul deeds our government is getting away with, why look for fantasy?
Neptunati
Building number seven! Fuck you neocons! Fuck your experts all that needs to be said is the jet fuel didn't reach the temperatures needed to even weaken the steel used in the construction of the towers!BUILDING NUMBER SEVEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT OF IT DONNIE NEOCON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO ON CAN DISPROVE FACTS LIKE THE JETFUEL WAS NOT HOT ENOUGH!




AS are fellow masonic GnC would say end of fucking story!


Donnie darko just go to sleep your government is in control
hobgoblin
QUOTE(Neptunati @ Oct 26 2007, 06:33 AM) *

Building number seven!


Ok so the collapse of Building 7 did look suspiciously like a controlled demolition job, but why on Earth would any government agency deliberately make a demolition job look so controlled? Why blow it up in such an obvious and suspicious manner?

And why wait 7 hours after the initial plane collisions into the Twin Towers before detonating explosions in Building 7? That just doesn't make any sense at all.

Surely it would have made more sense to bring Building 7 down as Tower 1 came down and therefore any suspicious explosion evidence would have been masked by the dust and debris cloud from Tower 1? Why wait a full 7 hours, until all the dust had settled, to then bring down Building 7? It just makes no sense at all.
Donnie Darko
QUOTE(Neptunati @ Oct 26 2007, 01:33 AM) *

Building number seven!


Occam's Razor!

QUOTE
Fuck you neocons!


Fellas, I do believe we've been checkmated. Our evidence is no match for this wizard of debate.

QUOTE
NO ON CAN DISPROVE FACTS LIKE THE JETFUEL WAS NOT HOT ENOUGH!


You're right (for possibly the first time in your life). No "ON" can disprove the fact that the jet fuel was not hot enough. poop.gif

However, NIST did a study which included experiments, analysis of WTC steel and state-of-the-art computer simulations of the impacts and fires which showed that the dislodging of fireproofing, combined with the impact of the planes and subsequent uncontrolled burning of combustibles in the building created conditions that weakened the steel enough to initiate global collapse.

Again, Occam's Razor slices this one cleanly.
Donnie Darko
QUOTE(hobgoblin @ Oct 26 2007, 05:26 AM) *

QUOTE(Neptunati @ Oct 26 2007, 06:33 AM) *

Building number seven!


Ok so the collapse of Building 7 did look suspiciously like a controlled demolition job


It looked more like demolition than WTC 1 and 2 but still lacked several key features of demolition, most notably the series of very loud sequential blasts common to all demolitions immediately preceding collapse. Also, all videos of WTC just before collapse show the rear of the building, which looks fine. According to firefighters at the scene who were able to see the full building, the south side of WTC7 had over a dozen floors completely scooped out from the debris from the North Tower falling directly into the building, and had multiple uncontrolled fires on floors with key support trusses. Conspiracy hypothesists are surprised WTC7 fell. Structural engineers are surprised it stood as long as it did.

Call me crazy, but I think qualified professionals trump cheesy internet videos made by college drop outs.
Jaded Prole
While I do not support the "controlled demolition theory" (almost a religion) there are certainly questions and a good independent investigation (a real one) would be welcome.

Though the act was perpetrated by extremists, the government had been keeping close track of these folks, had been warned repeatedly and in some detail of all of it (except the date), they did nothing and in fact, continued to do nothing for hours after knowing of the hijackings. They had no need to blow up the towers but the did need a "Reichstag Fire" to go ahead with their agenda ie, Afghanistan and Iraq. Complicity, even of a passive nature is a crime too.

The problem with a secretive administration is that it creates the dynamic for conspiracy theorists. There are indeed conspiracies but they are not that complicated or hard to discern -- the Neocon agenda for instance, it's all available if one does some research.

Of course the next part of the primary conspiracy is attacking Iran which the criminals in charge are working up to with their demonizations. Twin Tower involvement or not, these creeps are a clear and present danger to the the US and the world. We need to get rid of them and get back to being a rational nation that operates within legal international norms. As for the extremists, there are now more than ever but international police work is the best way to deal with them along with a different international approach that doesn't create and enflame hatred and a desire for vengeance.

Ah coffee in the morning!
Donnie Darko
QUOTE(Jaded Prol @ Oct 26 2007, 08:58 AM) *

to go ahead with their agenda ie, Afghanistan


I only wish that they had done a better job of thoroughly rinsing Afghanistan of that Nazi-like regime, the Taliban. The only good Taliban is a dead one.

QUOTE
The problem with a secretive administration is that it creates the dynamic for conspiracy theorists.


While that may be true, conspiracy hypothesists have no difficulty dreaming up all sorts of nonsense without the aid of administration secrecy. There was no secrecy surrounding the moon landing…

QUOTE
There are indeed conspiracies but they are not that complicated or hard to discern


Indeed. The conspiracy on 9/11 was a conspiracy among Islamic Jihadists to infiltrate America and kill thousands of people. Any stumbling or inaction on the part of the administration was due to lack of preparedness. It's important to remember Cheney did authorize the shooting down of United 93 as it initially appeared to be on a collision course with the Capitol, but the fighter jets following outdated scramble procedures couldn't make it there in time. At worst I suspect they probably didn't worry themselves too much with Al Qaeda prior to 9/11 because they were stuck in that Reagan cold war mentality, and Al Qaeda caught us asleep at the wheel.

QUOTE
the Neocon agenda for instance, it's all available if one does some research.


One would do well to dispose of labels such as "Liberal" and "Neocon", as those who wear those labels tend to fluctuate positions with the wind. Instead we should only concern ourselves with what is rational and what is irrational. It is quite rational to fear a nuclear armed theocratic anti-semitic regime hell bent on the destruction of Israel and subjugation of all people to Sharia. At this point it is extremely irrational to invade them.
Le Gimp
QUOTE(Neptunati @ Oct 25 2007, 09:33 PM) *

Building number seven! Fuck you neocons! Fuck your experts all that needs to be said is the jet fuel didn't reach the temperatures needed to even weaken the steel used in the construction of the towers!BUILDING NUMBER SEVEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT OF IT DONNIE NEOCON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO ON CAN DISPROVE FACTS LIKE THE JETFUEL WAS NOT HOT ENOUGH!




AS are fellow masonic GnC would say end of fucking story!


Donnie darko just go to sleep your government is in control



I own and operate a heat treatement furnace. I make tool steel tools. I also forge steel.

The fire was plenty hot enough to reduce the strenght of the steel structure to the point of failure.

You are full of shit.

Absomphe
QUOTE(Neptunati @ Oct 25 2007, 10:33 PM) *

AS are fellow masonic GnC would say


You're funny, Neptunati.

You amuse me.
Le Gimp
Oh, yea. I already pooped this morning so I am not (full of shit).
Jaded Prole
The Neocons label themselves.

As for Iran, you're buying a line of exaggerations and lies. It is indeed an oppressive theocratic regime but it is not that popular among Iranians and left alone, will be reformed and replaced in time. It is not "hell bent on the destruction of Israel" though convenient mis-quotes of their temporary and not-all-that-powerful spokesman are used to promote that lie. Iran seeks to be the most influential power in the region and we've helped them but they are not militarily aggressive or a grave threat and have historic reasons to feel threatened themselves. It is the US that poses the gravest threat to the region at this point.

Though I am not a fan of nuclear power, Iran has as much right to it as anyone else and has categorically stated that they do not seek nuclear weapons. Experts like Hans Blix, Scott Ritter and Mohamed El Baridae confirm that they are not anywhere near a weapons program or purifying uranium to that degree but apparently Cheney and Bush have you convinced playing on your Islamophobia.

Al Qaeda, previous to 2001 was essentially a fanatic Saudi dissident militia organized and trained by the CIA for use in Afghanistan in the cold war. Their primary agenda was aimed at ending US support for the ibn Saud regime and secondarily, (mostly to build support in the Arab world), against US backing of Israel. The attack on the WTC was to draw attention to them and their cause and might have backfired if it didn't play into the dreams and plans of the neocons. Thanks to Cheney/Bush, they have become a much larger network. Still, while most in the Muslim world want us out of Iraq, they do not support Al Qaeda or seek "the destruction or the west and its subjugation to sharia."
Kirk
I'm a metal smith, my livelihood depends on understanding what heat can and can't do.
Fire is at 454, if you need something hotter than that all you have to do is gather the fire, contain in it in some way, like with a kiln, a box or (oh yes) a building. As you put in the 454, it keeps accumulating, more 454 means higher temperatures, get it? The temperatures in that particular fire reached over F 2000. A simple candle can produce enough heat to fuse steel, if it is contained properly. Your average house fire will vaporise steel, and a house is a short box, burn a tall box and the rate goes up.
By the way, F 454 is hot enough to effect steel.
Donnie Darko
QUOTE(Jaded Prol @ Oct 26 2007, 10:59 AM) *

Though I am not a fan of nuclear power, Iran has as much right to it as anyone else


Being the Liberal that I am, I think everyone has the right to nuclear energy (which is far greener than oil), but nobody has the right to nuclear weapons, including the US.

QUOTE
and has categorically stated that they do not seek nuclear weapons.


Right, and they always tell the truth, don't they?

I didn't say Iran had nukes yet, and I would defer to experts such as Blix, Ritter and El Baridae on their current ability to make nukes. I am 100% against invasion of Iran, but I am 100% in favour of doing everything short of ground invasion to stop them from acquiring the ability to make nuclear warheads. We've had success getting North Korea to back off their Nuke ambitions, hopefully the same can be done with Iran.

QUOTE
but apparently Cheney and Bush have you convinced playing on your Islamophobia.


Oh please. Cultural relativism at its worst. When I criticize Christianity, nobody calls me a Christophobe and when I criticize Judaism, nobody calls me an anti-semite. But when I criticize the horribly repressive Iranian regime (one that jails women for smoking and would jail you for plenty of the things you have said), I'm an Islamophobe. That word is conveniently invoked against critics of Islam in order to avoid the substance of the criticism. Meanwhile the Iranian regime is carrying out the standard totalitarian agenda of punishing thought crime, and nobody has a buzzword to stimgatize them. How about Freedomphobe? I think that word fits them exactly. See where labels get you?

I'm talking about Iran here, not the entire Muslim world. Thankfully many Muslims are passive and do not impose Islamic doctrine upon others, but those who do ARE dangerous and those with political power who do so are even more dangerous. The Iranian people who have to live their days under the boot of strictly enforced Sharia know that first hand. I certainly hope the tolerant and highly intelligent Iranian people DO undo their current government, but a nuclear Iran will only empower their regime further, and the last thing the world needs is a stronger Iranian regime.

Mohammed Armageddonijad wants a nuke. My college politics professor Mansour Farhang, who was Iran's ambassador to the UN for several years, has said so and he's in a position to know that better than most people. None of the nuclear inspectors you named have said Iran doesn't WANT nukes, they just said right now they're far off from the ability to make them.
Donnie Darko
QUOTE(Kirk @ Oct 26 2007, 11:32 AM) *

I'm a metal smith, F 454 is hot enough to effect steel.


That means you're a qualified expert on this matter, and that means Neptutani isn't going to listen to a word you say. 9/11 conspiracists rest on the faulty assumption that the steel melted. The fact is steel only has to be heated to half the temperature of the WTC fires to lose plasticity and load supporting strength, as our other resident steel worker Gimp succinctly pointed out.

It's a fucking miracle the buildings didn't collapse shortly after the planes hit them given the design of the structure. The structure was only designed to withstand impact from slower smaller jets and the engineers didn't take into consideration the effect a multiple-floor jet fuel catalyzed fire would have on the building. The sprinkler system was severed, fireproofing was knocked off of steel, multiple floors were obliterated by the impacts alone. We're fortunate only 2800 were killed.
Kirk
"the engineers didn't take into consideration the effect a multiple-floor jet fuel catalyzed fire would have on the building."
Can't blame them for that, who would?
Kirk
Of course, tomorrows designers may be put upon to crack that problem.
You can heat a diamond to red hot and quench it in ice water with no effect, it's the only material I know of that can withstand that.
Maybe they can cast it of diamond. Neptunati will make it for us, we'll have diamond cars, diamond glasses and diamond shoes, too.
Le Gimp
Steel begins to transition from Ferrite/Pearlite (carbon content dependent) and Cementite to Austenite at 1333 F. That is a heck of a low lower than 2300F. The Ferrite/Pearlite /Cementite to Austenite transition completes around 1400F. This is the normal forging temperature because the steel is very easily deformed due to loss of tensile and compressive strength.

I have yet to see a credible source that denies that the temperature of the fire reached 1400F after burning for over an hour.

I do see the conspiracy theorists touting that the fire COULDN'T have reached 2300F. They fail to understand the true nature of the fire, or the strength of the steel beams. They also fail to understand that Steel melts (becomes liquid) any where from 2033F to 2600F depending on the alloy (excluding exotic alloys). It loses most of it's tensile strength well below the melting point.


Strangely enough, the phase change diagram for steel and cast iron is the background on my computer at work.

Found it on the web:
Notice the line at 1333F. This is the main transition temp for all Fe- C alloys. Up to this temp the loss of strength is slow. Above it the strength rapidly decreases.

IPB Image
Donnie Darko
The problem was compounded in the WTC by the likelihood that some beams and trusses only had a portion of the SFRM fireproofing dislodged by impact. As a result, the exposed steel heated, and then the SFRM coated section of the beam or truss prevented heat from dissipating, which made the steel heat even faster. If you put your bare feet in hot water and wrap the rest of yourself in a blanket, you're going to get hot FAST.

Nobody is making this shit up either. NIST researchers (the NIST study was independent by the way, they outsourced much of the research to universities) demonstrated it via experiment and computer model. MIT did their own entirely independent study and determined the situation was even worse in the towers than NIST's more conservative estimates showed.

But NIST and MIT don't know shit, only college drop outs with a video editing program and an internet connection are qualified to analyze 9/11.
Pataphysician
QUOTE(Artemis @ Oct 25 2007, 03:33 PM) *

I wouldn't even bother replying to this trash, except it needs to pointed out that this was ever a forum full of liberals and never a forum full of morons. Whenever people as diverse as Darko and Hobgoblin on one side, and me and Chong on the other side think you're an idiot, you're sunk.


Haha! Case closed!

The trouble with conspiracists is they offer way TOO MUCH evidence, which can only wind up contradicting itself, and they shape it into such elaborate schemes that the explanation makes no practical sense. If the perpatrators managed to rig the buildings with explosives, why not just detonate them and say the Muslims did it? Why go to all the trouble with the planes?
bob_chong
Hated Pole is the worst kind of liberal: a bookish, 50-something, dilettante commie who worships at the altar of relativism. Lemme guess: you wear Birks, have the NYT home delivered, and have at least dabbled in veganism once in your life. You think Cuba is a paradise, and you may or may not own an article of clothing with Che Guevara's picture on it.

You are a fucking cartoon, man.

And I vote only to annoy people like you. Most. Votes. Ever.


Oxygenee
I'd just like to say what an unexpected pleasure it is to find myself in wholehearted agreement with Hobgoblin in a thread in the Newgate forum.
Donnie Darko
Hey, not everything is a Zionist conspiracy.
traineraz
If I were a conspiracy theorist, I'd focus on facts rather than speculation:

The US government was given repeated warnings that terrorists planned to hijack planes to use them as missiles.

Four jets were hijacked that morning.

Notification was sent from each jet that it had been hijacked (some button or something, I don't recall the details).

One flew into the WTC.

No attempt was made to stop the other three.



If I were a conspiracy theorist, I'd believe that the government ALLOWED 9/11 to reach its ultimate conclusion.

I wouldn't bother with this nonsense about detonators, and I doubt the government would either. Too risky.


And Donnie's a neocon. <snort>
speedle
Or a Masonic plot. wink.gif
Pataphysician
QUOTE(bob_chong @ Oct 26 2007, 10:44 AM) *

Hated Pole is the worst kind of liberal: a bookish, 50-something, dilettante commie who worships at the altar of relativism. Lemme guess: you wear Birks, have the NYT home delivered, and have at least dabbled in veganism once in your life. You think Cuba is a paradise, and you may or may not own an article of clothing with Che Guevara's picture on it.

You are a fucking cartoon, man.

And I vote only to annoy people like you. Most. Votes. Ever.


Ah, I finally understand the great mystery of Bush's election. None of that description fits me, but you also annoyed me with your vote, too. Me and the other 78% of the U.S. population who didn't vote for Bush.
Most. Childish. Vote. Ever.
Jaded Prole
And the Chonger is wrong on all counts.
Plus his voting hurts him too. Uneducated voting is worse than untrained handgun use -- more people get hurt.
Donnie Darko
QUOTE(traineraz @ Oct 26 2007, 04:06 PM) *

Notification was sent from each jet that it had been hijacked (some button or something, I don't recall the details).


Actually no notification was sent from the first three planes that they had been hijacked. An important detail to note in the hijackings is that it wasn't until 26 minutes after the first plane was hijacked that air traffic control concluded the plane was hijacked. The hijackers switched the transponder off, which had never been done in a hijacking before. Losing a plane's transponder is normally a sign of a mechanical failure, and so the ensuing 26 minutes were spent trying to figure out what the problem was. Tracking the planes via radar proved extremely difficult because A) it was off course and B) there were tons of other planes in the area and a crosscheck between the transponder signal and the radar location (radar was on a separate floor of the ATC tower tracking that airspace!) took a LOT of time, and ATC was ill equipped to do such a thing.

QUOTE
No attempt was made to stop the other three.


That's not true. After ATC determined the first plane was hijacked and notified NORAD, two F16s from an air force base in Massachussetts were scrambled (they didn't get airborne however until just moments after the 1st plane had hit, due to lack of preparedness and the notification of the hijacking taking nearly 10 minutes to get from ATC to NORAD). When they DID get airborne, they followed outdated scramble flight patterns designed to protect the country from external attack, so they flew over the Atlantic rather than towards Manhattan where the 2nd plane was heading (which was difficult to deduce due to the transponder being turned off). Those F16s finally reached Manhattan about 10 minutes after the 2nd plane hit. I remember seeing them fly overhead at breakneck speed, and of course we all thought they were going to attack us too.

Planes were similarly scrambled too late and in the wrong direction to intercept United 93. Those F16s were authorized to break the sound barrier in order to reach United 93 (which is actually against intercept rules, but the commander directing those planes said "I don't care how many windows you break"), but they were still 10 minutes away when the last plane crashed into the field in PA. Again to unpreparedness, the flight scramble procedures, and slow chain of command instructions.

To summarize, the military and ATC did EVERYTHING they could do given their training and past experiences to stop what happened and acted heroically. Unfortunately we were not prepared for such an event.


QUOTE
And Donnie's a neocon. <snort>


Woo baby, look at that Halliburton stock grow!
bob_chong
QUOTE(Jaded Prol @ Oct 26 2007, 04:35 PM) *

And the Chonger is wrong on all counts.
Plus his voting hurts him too.


It's all about the tax cuts, baby. Let me keep more of my money. Whoever delivers on that, gets my vote. On everything else, there is no real difference among these fucks who want to run the govt. They claim there is, but there really isn't. Not one damn hobo in the group.

One addendum: I cannot vote for anyone who does not believe that Islamofascism is real and a grave danger to the West.
Pataphysician
…tax cuts and keeping the trains running on time.
Jaded Prole



QUOTE
On everything else, there is no real difference among these fucks who want to run the govt. They claim there is, but there really isn't.


Agreed.

Considering how in debt we are no as a nation, we are going to be paying for a long time. Cutting taxes sounds good but it's unrealistic. Shifting the burden off of working people would be good but it ain't gonna happen.

hartsmar
To be honest, it wasn't the US govt. doing this - it was the Swedish. Sorry fellas. Which company designed the structure for the WTC buildings? Huh? That's right...

So, have that up for discussion on conspiracy café tonight!

Good God!
traineraz
Swedish Masonic Neocons, oh my!



And Donnie, thanks for the clarifications. So it was just complete incompetence on our military's part, gotcha.
Jaded Prole
At least it wasn't the Belgians!
thegreenimp
QUOTE
And Donnie's a neocon. <snort>


This thread is almost as laughable as a Jack Chick comic. LARS!.gif
traineraz
Indeed. http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0093/0093_01.asp
The Standard Deviant
Damn, I'm surrounded. They're everywhere. . . My house is covered in masonry.
Donnie Darko
Yeah, wake up sheeple!
Kirk
Ha! They're everywhere.
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