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The Fée Verte Absinthe Forum - The Oldest, Largest, Most Authoritative Absinthe Forum. > Absinthe & Absinthiana > Absinthe in the News & in the Media
Oxygenee
It's extraordinary how resiliant Arnold's 260mg/l thujone myth is. I've always assumed that Arnold himself would acknowledge that his guesstimate - which is all it was - had long since been superceded by evidence-based research, but, to judge by his comment appended to this recent Boston Herald article, it appears not.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/…format=comments

Quite extraordinary.

hartsmar
That's nice.
One would think that anyone with the title of "Dr" would perhaps take the time to verify and re-verify their claims.
Especially when several analyses being published show the opposite.
absinthist
I knew it!

Dr O=Dr Arnold shock.gif You see it? A=alpha, O=omega. Simple, ain't it?

The greatest secret of Absinthe world has been revealed. Conspiracy is no longer needed. Emperor is naked.
Bruno Rygseck
QUOTE

hallucinations in experimental animals.


blink.gif
Provenance
QUOTE
The toxicity of…any…toxic compound, depends upon…the amount

Just one of them college boys showing off his book smarts.
Absomphe
"An individual such as Vincent van Gogh with the underlying disease of acute intermittent porphyria."

Now I finally understand the homage that Radomil Hill was paying to Van Gogh when he created his fine blue absinth…or maybe it was to King George III… wacko.gif
Shabba53
So is anyone planning to call them out in that blog?
Hemingway's Hangover
QUOTE(Oxygenee @ Nov 21 2007, 03:12 AM) *

It's extraordinary how resiliant Arnold's 260mg/l thujone myth is. I've always assumed that Arnold himself would acknowledge that his guesstimate - which is all it was - had long since been superceded by evidence-based research, but, to judge by his comment appended to this recent Boston Herald article, it appears not.


Oxy, I have a theory. I know that the EU recently outlawed a form of online misrepresentation where marketers pose as "thrilled customers" to sucker the unsuspecting shopper. This is so close to some of the behavior of Czech-sinthe sites that it is difficult for me to not to believe that some of these comments are posted as intentional marketing efforts by those producers of swill. I'm not sure if such behavior is illegal in the US -- my guess would be "no" ($ = free speech, as our illustrious supreme court recently ruled) -- so it certainly might be possible that the continuation of the 260/mg meme on the internet is actually quite intentionally crafted, along with all the other chop.gif mythologies and "bohemian" fire rituals.


no-czechs3.gif
absinthist
260 mg/l of Arnold's theory seems to be just the amount of pre-distilled chop.gif content which, if assumed at 67% of wormwood oil content, is 35.1 mg/l in a finished product, so quite a marketable one, if asked for.

Dr. O, I mean, Dr Arnold is also forgetting about low-tujon chemotypes and free-thujon chemotypes (and yes, they must have existed in the heyday, little doubt about it), plus the aspect of drying the herbs which resulted in Pernod fils being: 1.6mg/l to 17 mg/l as far as I remember.

And it would be advisable for the venerable Dr to stop talking about Vincent, he has no idea about and I am not sure whether Vincent would approve of these calumnies spoken without his consent.

Iffen, if we assume Vincent was consuming 1 litre of absinthe (around 8.5 mg/l) per day, we would arrive at the following: 8,5/60 (supposed weight) = 0,14 mg/kg of bodyweight. The No Effect Level (NOEL) in animal experiments Arnold mentions is 5 mg/kg of bodyweight. So, even with this high consumption, van Gogh should have been below the effect level of tujon. If daily he was reaching at maximum 7.5 pro mille (having in mind he could afford most of the time ordinaire at 45% vol), what equals excessive alcoholism only, still not life-threatening, not at least in Europe.
Pataphysician
QUOTE(Absomphe @ Nov 21 2007, 08:42 AM) *

"An individual such as Vincent van Gogh with the underlying disease of acute intermittent porphyria."


The good doctor is even able to diagnose a man who's been dead for over 100 years. No autopsy, no reliable medical records, just some sketchy descriptions of symptoms -- hmm, kind of like analyzing absinthe of 100 years ago, eh, doctor?
speedle
The point that Herr Doktor Arnold seems to be making is that without "steam distillation" one is not making the same product, and that therefore you can't have as many t-jones in the final product. Given that this is Boston, i.e. a big market, would somebody please call this idjut out? i.e. someone who is alot more knowledgeable than I, if only to point out that more recent tests have been done!
traineraz
QUOTE(Pataphysician @ Nov 21 2007, 12:15 PM) *

The good doctor is even able to diagnose a man who's been dead for over 100 years. No autopsy, no reliable medical records, just some sketchy descriptions of symptoms -- hmm, kind of like analyzing absinthe of 100 years ago, eh, doctor?

Not really. You can analyze a sample of absinthe from 100 years ago, with relative ease (and some expense).

Obtaining a sample of Vincent might be more challenging.
Donnie Darko
One can have a PhD in poetry and their proper title is "Doctor".

That's all I have to say about that.
Pataphysician
You can also call yourself Pataphysician and some folks will think you're a doctor.

QUOTE(traineraz @ Nov 21 2007, 02:00 PM) *

QUOTE(Pataphysician @ Nov 21 2007, 12:15 PM) *

The good doctor is even able to diagnose a man who's been dead for over 100 years. No autopsy, no reliable medical records, just some sketchy descriptions of symptoms -- hmm, kind of like analyzing absinthe of 100 years ago, eh, doctor?

Not really. You can analyze a sample of absinthe from 100 years ago, with relative ease (and some expense).

Obtaining a sample of Vincent might be more challenging.


My point exactly, you can, but Dr. Arnold wouldn't. He'd analyze it based on hearsay.

Hmm, ya know that ear has to be somewhere.
Zman
Perhaps the "Dr Arnold" of the article is in fact Drabsinthe posing as the good doctor? It sure is written in the style of Drabsinthe. Perhaps Oxy, Ted, or the Absinthe Syndicate should post a response?
traineraz
QUOTE(Pataphysician @ Nov 21 2007, 02:15 PM) *


My point exactly, you can, but Dr. Arnold wouldn't. He'd analyze it based on hearsay.

Hmm, ya know that ear has to be somewhere.

I hear ya.
Absomphe
QUOTE(traineraz @ Nov 21 2007, 02:00 PM) *

Not really. You can analyze a sample of absinthe from 100 years ago, with relative ease (and some expense).


Yes, but not in the precise condition that it actually was in 100 years ago, there's the rub…

And, unfortunately, Dr. O loves to milk that cow dry, doesn't he? wacko.gif
Alice the absinthe eater
QUOTE(traineraz @ Nov 21 2007, 05:00 PM) *

QUOTE(Pataphysician @ Nov 21 2007, 12:15 PM) *

The good doctor is even able to diagnose a man who's been dead for over 100 years. No autopsy, no reliable medical records, just some sketchy descriptions of symptoms -- hmm, kind of like analyzing absinthe of 100 years ago, eh, doctor?

Not really. You can analyze a sample of absinthe from 100 years ago, with relative ease (and some expense).

Obtaining a sample of Vincent might be more challenging.



If you find him in a sound bottle with a good cork I would love a 20ml sample.

G&C
I've got a 20ml sample for ya.
Absinthesizer
Has that pick-up line ever worked? blink.gif
Absomphe
Only for the members of 10cc, I suspect.
Ari
QUOTE(Zman @ Nov 21 2007, 03:35 PM) *

Perhaps the "Dr Arnold" of the article is in fact Drabsinthe posing as the good doctor? It sure is written in the style of Drabsinthe. Perhaps Oxy, Ted, or the Absinthe Syndicate should post a response?

It sounded possible enough that I e-mailed the Doc to find out. Nope those are his words and yep he is still going off his old data, and either hasn't even seen the new information or is choosing to ignore it.

Edit to add: The comment under Arnold's is most certainly Drabsinthe.
Oxygenee
From the UPI website:

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2007…ngredient/7567/

Un-fuckin-believable.
G&C
Not really.

People still believe Saddam has weapons of mass destruction.
Hemingway's Hangover
QUOTE(G&C @ Nov 29 2007, 08:07 AM) *

Not really.

People still believe Saddam has weapons of mass destruction.



Same type of linguistic dodge, as well:

"We BELIEVE Saddam has WMDs" (remember how David Kay said "We were all wrong"?)

It has been ESTIMATED that pre-ban absinthe had large amounts of chop.gif"…

It is amazing what you can get away with when you use language carefully and present it to a population trained for obedience to authority….even right there on the thread, you have a poster who decides to support Arnold because of his PhD. I know quite a few PhDs (both scientific and otherwise) and at least half of them are total idiots.

frusty.gif
Deluge
Arnold strikes again… This time in Time Magazine.


But the biggest controversy surrounding the liquor--once dubbed "one of the worst enemies of man"--is about not its resurgence but rather its authenticity. Enthusiasts claim the th-jone-free brands, which contain less than 10 parts per million (p.p.m.) of the chemical, are made with the same relatively small amounts of th-jone as the old brews. But scientists wrote in the British Medical Journal that absinthe bottled before 1900 packed up to 260 p.p.m. of th-jone--which may not sound like much, but consider that only 15 parts per billion of lead in drinking water is enough to scare regulators. "They are playing pretend," study co-author Wilfred Arnold says of the liquor's new cheerleaders. "It is nothing like the old stuff."

I remember Oxy mentioning some recent research done on vintage absinthe and the th-jone content, has any of this information been made public yet?
Zman
All right. I'll say it. Arnold if full of shit.
Provenance
Perhaps he's merely tripping on vintage absinthe.
Wild Bill Turkey
QUOTE(Deluge @ Nov 29 2007, 02:23 PM) *

I remember Oxy mentioning some recent research done on vintage absinthe and the th-jone content, has any of this information been made public yet?

Oxy said this today in answer to that same question over at the WS:
QUOTE
It's been done, and will be published in a peer-reviewed journal next year.
Ari
QUOTE(Oxygenee @ Nov 29 2007, 04:58 AM) *

From the UPI website:

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2007…ngredient/7567/

Un-fuckin-believable.


what's better, besides their grammar, is they didn't even accurately steal someone else's story.

I love it that no one seems to ask Arnold where he gets his information from. He seems to be trying to protect his book, which apparently is the best source of absinthe information, according to him. I also like the comparison to lead as if they had the same type of dangers. People are stupid.
grey boy
QUOTE(Ari @ Nov 29 2007, 06:55 PM) *

People are stupid.

And that's why why I stopped dealing with them,
save for a handful.
Jaded Prole
What he said.
Absomphe
What they said.
absinthist
What did ya say?
traineraz
Let's send him to Sudan, with a bottle of Moo-Ham-Mad Absinth.
absinthist
Venerable Doc will get 260 lashes? Nice idea, TAZ.
Absomphe
Balztrippin'™ idea, even.
traineraz
See, I'm good for something.

And so are the Sudanese.
Absomphe
Hopefully for you, just not the same something.
traineraz
Nah, I'm not much of a flogger.
Absomphe
I first read that as "blogger".

Wishful thinking, I suppose.
traineraz
I'm not much of a blogger, neither.
Absomphe
I'm sure, but that's a much more palatable image I can cope with.
speedle
Dr. Arnold is the absinthe equivalent of a UFO Researcher!
absinthist
But UFO exists, ask extraterrestrials evill.gif
Absomphe
Okay, I will.

Do they? harhar.gif
speedle
What really bothers me is that no one calls him out on the fact that his career as a Van Gogh "historian" is largely based on the hypothesis that VG was attracted to thu-jone and thus drank lots of the supposedly high TJ absinthe of the day. Therefore, if pre-ban absinthe didn't really have all that much thu-jone in it, then what does that do to Dr. Arnold's theories? That's my biggest problem with all this "journalizm".
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