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The Fée Verte Absinthe Forum - The Oldest, Largest, Most Authoritative Absinthe Forum. > The Monkey Hole > Entertainment
anatomist
He's not only cooler than you think, he's cooler than you can think.

salsa
no doubt…

but "a picture of health"? um…:(
Provenance
There's nothing cool about being a junkie. He was a mediocre vocalist and a pretty good but far from great trumpet player.

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Provenance
This guy was not only smarter than you think, he's smarter than you can think.

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Jaded Prole
Chet was very cool with great unfulfilled potential.

Coltrane was as close to a god as I can imagine. his music continues to be a revelation!
Nephrite
QUOTE(Provenance @ Feb 6 2008, 10:22 PM) *

There's nothing cool about being a junkie.


I'm ajunkie…
G&C
End of Story™.
anatomist
QUOTE(Provenance @ Feb 6 2008, 04:22 PM) *

There's nothing cool about being a junkie. He was a mediocre vocalist and a pretty good but far from great trumpet player.

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Excellent work Mr. J Evans Pritchard! Do you think you could graph his mediocrity for us on a two point axis? Maybe provide a rigorous hierarchical list of all-time greatest trumpet players? A list of various heart-healthy recipes and other "cool" healthy behaviors would also be helpful to people like me who are obviously having trouble understanding coolness.
Provenance
If you consider being beaten and have your mouth smashed in San Francisco as the hight of cool, then please, indulge your fantasy.
Donnie Darko
I'm still waiting for a horn player as good as Clifford Brown to come around.
Provenance
Expect a long wait. But if you want to hear one of the great early jazz trumpet players, check out De De Pierce.
salsa
QUOTE(Provenance @ Feb 6 2008, 04:22 PM) *
…He was a mediocre vocalist and a pretty good but far from great trumpet player.

not a great vocalist but always loved that voice-- so much style, like a long sigh backing everything up.
anatomist
QUOTE(Provenance @ Feb 7 2008, 09:41 AM) *

If you consider being beaten and have your mouth smashed in San Francisco as the hight of cool, then please, indulge your fantasy.


Jimi Hendrix choked on his own puke, so I guess he must have been a major dork too. I guess I've had it upside-down all along. The really cool people are the ones who play it safe and make sure nothing bad ever happens to them. Agoraphobics and hypochondriacs must be the coolest of us all.
Tibro
Do you think that someone who ingests consciousness altering substances to the point of fatality is comfortable and content and cool within their own skin? Or maybe you identify with the whole "troubled artist" thing?
Jaded Prole
I can identify with it.


Though as Cab Calloway said -- "It ain't necessarily so."
Provenance
Anatomyboy seems to have far less interest in Baker's or Hendrix's musical accomplisments (which were substantial) than in their "coolness." Cool. He has a right to be trite.
anatomist
QUOTE(Provenance @ Feb 7 2008, 03:40 PM) *

Anatomyboy seems to have far less interest in Baker's or Hendrix's musical accomplisments (which were substantial) than in their "coolness." Cool. He has a right to be trite.


I see you are a fan of the ad hominem as well as the unwarranted generalization. Ah, so many fallacies, so little time.

Actually, I don't think you know much about my interests. I started this thread because I think Chet is cool, and I stated that. I didn't state that he was healthy, or that I wanted to be like him, or that he was better than anyone else, just that he was extremely cool - a concept which you evidently don't even remotely understand.

You were the one who brought in the idea of greatness, intelligence, and musical "accomplisments", presumably so you could show off how much you know about jazz. I personally avoid making pronouncements about what is "great" and what isn't when it comes to any form of art. I just talk about what I like. Not only does it seem arrogant to the point of megalomania to make hierarchical judgments of relative greatness among artworks or artists, it seems colossally beside the point. Art is not a horse race.
Absomphe
QUOTE(anatomist @ Feb 7 2008, 02:25 PM) *

Ah,so, mini phalluses, so little.


Obviously.
Fredfry
QUOTE(ajunkie @ Feb 7 2008, 01:26 AM) *

QUOTE(Provenance @ Feb 6 2008, 10:22 PM) *

There's nothing cool about being a junkie.


I'm ajunkie…


Why?
Donnie Darko
It's really stupid to bash people for addictions. It's a personal shortcoming on the part of the addict, and is unfortunate because if they had got help they might have been around to produce more great art. Is anyone here saying the guy was talentless because he had a substance abuse problem?
anatomist
QUOTE(Donnie Darko @ Feb 7 2008, 10:04 PM) *

It's really stupid to bash people for addictions. It's a personal shortcoming on the part of the addict, and is unfortunate because if they had got help they might have been around to produce more great art. Is anyone here saying the guy was talentless because he had a substance abuse problem?


I don't know what kind of PC kool aid you've been drinking, but right-thinking Americans recognize addicts for what they really are: worthless and weak. Anyone who uses the wrong drug or uses it in the wrong way deserves whatever they get, and should be actively and gleefully shamed by the rest of us. Judge Judy, Dr. Laura, and Rush Limbaugh all say so, and we admire them for their firey righteousness.
Nephrite
QUOTE(Fredfry @ Feb 8 2008, 01:18 AM) *

QUOTE(ajunkie @ Feb 7 2008, 01:26 AM) *

I'm ajunkie…

Why?


Because the name fits my profile.
http://www.whiskymag.com/forum/search.php?…73&sr=posts

OMG! We have the same birthday… what are the chances of that happening? abs-cheers.gif
Fredfry
QUOTE(anatomist @ Feb 7 2008, 11:22 PM) *

I don't know what kind of PC kool aid you've been drinking, but right-thinking Americans recognize addicts for what they really are: worthless and weak. Anyone who uses the wrong drug or uses it in the wrong way deserves whatever they get, and should be actively and gleefully shamed by the rest of us. Judge Judy, Dr. Laura, and Rush Limbaugh all say so, and we admire them for their firey righteousness.


You don't actually believe the above horse shit, do you? I'm sure your just having a cocktail and playing, right? You sound like you've spent your life living in a cave with an AM radio.

[quote ajunkie]

OMG! We have the same birthday… what are the chances of that happening? abs-cheers.gif
[quote]

The chances? Not that remote, I think more then just us two were born on that day, however if you factor in our mutual interest in Absinthe the odds jump quite a bit, regardless it's cool as hell and glad to make your acquaintance! abs-cheers.gif and as far as your moniker lets just say I feel your pain. Frankenstein.gif
Donnie Darko
QUOTE(anatomist @ Feb 7 2008, 11:22 PM) *

I don't know what kind of PC kool aid you've been drinking, but right-thinking Americans recognize addicts for what they really are: worthless and weak.


On page 1 of this thread Chet was the coolest, but on page 2 he's worthless?

It's not PC to recognize it's mean spirited to bash someone for an addiction, just as it's not PC to realize that calling an underperforming student a "fucking retard" probably isn't going to help them. Some addicts are worthless and weak, but some are struggling with a problem they might overcome. There's a difference between putting pressure on them and insulting them. Pressure helps, insults discourage.

AA and NA are bullshit programs, they don't do anything, if anything they make it worse because it's all groupthink and no personal responsibility. But methadone does work. I've seen it work on two friends who used to be worthless and weak when they were junkies, but are now functional and totally fine. All I'm saying is that Chet was cool, but he could have been cooler had he got treatment.
Jaded Prole
Actually AA and NA work for a lot of people and have saved many lives. It wouldn't work for you or I but there are all kinds of people and for many, it fills their need and speaks to them -- sort of like religion. For the sentient, there is a deeper spirituality or thought, for the majority unable to go there, there is religion.

Methadone by the way is far worse than Heroin. Firstly, the withdrawls are more severe but more impairing is that you must be an absolute slave to a particular program. Had Chet gone that route there is no way he could have persued a career involving travel. Opium addiction in and of itself will not cause health problems. What causes the problem is it's illegality and the resulting unregulated supply which can result in overdose, contamination, and of course prison.
Absomphe
QUOTE(anatomist @ Feb 7 2008, 08:22 PM) *

…Anyone who uses the wrong drug or uses it in the wrong way deserves whatever they get, and should be actively and gleefully shamed by the rest of us. Judge Judy, Dr. Laura, and Rush Limbaugh all say so, and we admire them for their firey righteousness.


Having included Rush Limpballs on your list of addict detractors, I assume there must have been a sarcastic unpinning to the flavor of your post.

Either that, or you smoke crack.
Le Gimp
QUOTE(Jaded Prol @ Feb 8 2008, 05:48 AM) *

Actually AA and NA work for a lot of people and have saved many lives. It wouldn't work for you or I but there are all kinds of people and for many, it fills their need and speaks to them -- sort of like religion. For the sentient, there is a deeper spirituality or thought, for the majority unable to go there, there is religion.

Methadone by the way is far worse than Heroin. Firstly, the withdrawls are more severe but more impairing is that you must be an absolute slave to a particular program. Had Chet gone that route there is no way he could have persued a career involving travel. Opium addiction in and of itself will not cause health problems. What causes the problem is it's illegality and the resulting unregulated supply which can result in overdose, contamination, and of course prison.


Opium does cause health problems. They may not be as servere as some other drugs but it does have it's consequences.

Servere constipation to the point of total blockage is one possible consiquence of opium addiction.
Shabba53
QUOTE(anatomist @ Feb 7 2008, 11:22 PM) *

Anyone who uses the wrong drug or uses it in the wrong way deserves whatever they get, and should be actively and gleefully shamed by the rest of us.

So in this thread, it's your own damn fault if your a junkie, but in the other thread, you shit on me for saying it's your own damn fault if you're lazy.

Hmmm.

I anxiously await your next personal attack which will help you to strengthen your argument in whatever convoluted way you think it does.
Selmac
Am I the only one who thought that Anatomist's post was completely sarcastic?
Le Gimp
With Rush Limbaugh as a ref for abstinance from drugs, how could he be? shock.gif
Provenance
QUOTE(anatomist @ Feb 7 2008, 02:25 PM) *
Ah, so many fallacies, so little time.


So much quoting the post directly above your own too much of the time.
Absomphe
QUOTE(Le Gimp @ Feb 8 2008, 07:24 AM) *

With Rush Limbaugh as a ref for abstinance from drugs, how could he be? shock.gif


So true.

A model citizen like Rush Limbaugh would never codone the use of narcotics.
Donnie Darko
QUOTE(Jaded Prol @ Feb 8 2008, 08:48 AM) *

Actually AA and NA work for a lot of people…


Not according to legitimate research:
http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-effectiveness.html

I'm not denying that it works occasionally, but the success rate of AA is no better than the success rate of spontaneous quitting on the part of the addict on their own.

QUOTE
Opium addiction in and of itself will not cause health problems.


Opioids depress the respiratory system through slowing down the part of the brain that controls breathing. Guess what that means if you already have another respiratory illness, like asthma?

And of course there is the risk of sepsis due to the chronic constipation Gimp mentioned.

Not to mention the risky behavior and poor health choices that come along with being an addict.

QUOTE
Methadone by the way is far worse than Heroin. Firstly, the withdrawls are more severe but more impairing is that you must be an absolute slave to a particular program.


As opposed to being an absolute slave to Heroin? Heroin is more likely to kill you, and the two people who I know who went through the Methadone program came out fine. Yes, it wasn't easy, but it's easier than being a jaundiced stupid junkie who can barely function day to day.
Provenance
QUOTE(Absomphe @ Feb 8 2008, 07:47 AM) *
A model citizen like Rush Limbaugh


I thought model citizens were held together by glue not pills.

anatomist
Haw haw… to all who could not discern the obvious sarcasm. Next to all the god-damned Christian zealotry everywhere, the attitude I was mocking is my least favorite thing about America.

As for AA, I too have seen the numbers showing it doesn't work. Not only that, but it's whole paradigm has serious theoretical problems. The god/higher power stuff is only suitable for people who are so fucked up they're nearly dead or people who lack all skepticism and critical thinking skills. The way they define the addict as a victim and diseased for life isn't going to empower anyone. Same problem as psychoanalysis, chiropractic, phrenology, etc… they don't work and the theories they are based on are wrong.

I was shocked to find out that some version of their whole 12 step dogma is still the basis for almost all drug treatment programs in the US. The fact that they haven't come up with something better by now should be a major scandal. Compare the resources and sophistication of drug treatment to the level of development of other types of medical care and the development of our law enforcement and prison systems… says a lot about how much we care about treating drug abuse.
Absomphe
"I thought model citizens were held together by glue not pills."



Sniffing, popping…it's addiction either way you slice it, Pro.
Shabba53
QUOTE(anatomist @ Feb 8 2008, 11:38 AM) *

Compare the resources and sophistication of drug treatment to the level of development of other types of medical care and the development of our law enforcement and prison systems… says a lot about how much we care about treating drug abuse.

Here here.
Donnie Darko
QUOTE(anatomist @ Feb 8 2008, 11:38 AM) *

Haw haw… to all who could not discern the obvious sarcasm. Next to all the god-damned Christian zealotry everywhere, the attitude I was mocking is my least favorite thing about America.


I think your portrayal of the argument was so spot-on that I couldn't discern the obvious. When it comes to things like that, I have a tough time detecting sarcasm, as the sincere argument already has the ludicrous over-statement built into it, so there's not much one can add to it in order to sound sarcastic.
Fredfry
QUOTE(anatomist @ Feb 8 2008, 11:38 AM) *

The fact that they haven't come up with something better by now should be a major scandal. Compare the resources and sophistication of drug treatment to the level of development of other types of medical care and the development of our law enforcement and prison systems… says a lot about how much we care about treating drug abuse.


This country is only interested in exploiting illegal drug use for monetary gain and social control, as illustrated by the booming growth industry known as the American penal system who's main objective is to provide human warehousing of those people unfortunate enough to get caught possessing non government sanctioned (illegal) substances. Drug treatment is almost as bad today, AA, NA etc. as in the time of the snake pits. I've been in those rooms, the dynamic is a mix of structured hierarchal pressure, both verbal and non verbal, combined with couched religious dogma. In these rooms Cliques flourish, you have the in crowd, mostly old timers with standing. In between regurgitating the 12 step mantra, they are recounting for the one hundred thousandth time how the "program" saved them from a life of SPOKEN (loudly) depravity. In these rooms it is made clear that you are either with the program or doomed to wander the Earth as an "active user" who's only possible redemption can be found in returning to one of these rooms for further reprogramming. This is the best we have. well, at least where not putting the sick person in the stock in the village square and throwing tomatoes at them or worse dunking them in the river to expel their evil demons. crow.gif

anatomist, how we gonna know when you mean it?
G&C
You can't.

That's what he'll play for his advantage in any conversation.
anatomist
QUOTE(Donnie Darko @ Feb 8 2008, 11:30 AM) *

QUOTE(anatomist @ Feb 8 2008, 11:38 AM) *

Haw haw… to all who could not discern the obvious sarcasm. Next to all the god-damned Christian zealotry everywhere, the attitude I was mocking is my least favorite thing about America.


I think your portrayal of the argument was so spot-on that I couldn't discern the obvious. When it comes to things like that, I have a tough time detecting sarcasm, as the sincere argument already has the ludicrous over-statement built into it, so there's not much one can add to it in order to sound sarcastic.


I know what you mean. This is why certain kinds of parodies aren't very funny. Movies that make fun of the inside Hollywood scene come to mind…
bob_chong
Wow. Thanks for your opinion. We're all enlightened now.
Head_prosthesis
I just love the chemistry between you two.
It's magical.
Kirk
When I watch a movie, and the first joke is something writers and Hollywood find funny, I eject. Worse is when they go for sympathy, you know; poor mis understood Hollywood type.
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