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Steve
Reviews from the epicurious.com blog (Some of this may have been posted before; if so, sorry.):

Part 1: Lucid
QUOTE
"Weird armpit taste"
"Like this better [than others]. I finished it"
Score: 16.07/30

Part 2: Kübler
QUOTE
"Smelled bad but tasted great"
"Exquisite"
"Didn't care to finish it"
Score: 23.64/30

Part 3: Mansithe
QUOTE
"If a smell could speak, this absinthe is saying: 'Do not touch.'"
"Holy sh*t, Michael, is this poison?"
Score: 16.25/30

Head_prosthesis
You mean Epi-hillarious!
Donnie Darko
You know that aroma they're complaining about in the Mansinthe?

That's this yucky herb called "Wormwood". It says "do not touch".

I'm not that impressed by the Mansinthe either, but one of its few strong points is that the wormwood is pretty prominent, and it's decent quality wormwood. It's surprising that these "foodies" seem to not have perception attuned to ingredients.
Tibro
Wormwood in your food is something I would think most people would be appreciative of being warned not to touch. Distilled wormwood is a pretty niche commodity, and arguably its only pleasantly palatable application. I'm sure these are people with the experience in other realms of taste and smell that they could be educated to the finer distinctions and enjoyments of wormwood quite quickly given some guidance. The comments are interesting, though, given the forum it comes from.
Pataphysician
"armpit taste"

That's Epi-Lady
speedle
Yes, but these self-appointed "foodies" apparently haven't taken the time or effort to really understand and get familiar with what they are supposedly "testing". That's completely idiotic as far as I'm concerned. If it were any other plain ordinary blog out there, I would have made an attempt at an educated comment or two, but the crap you have to go through to register and the like just stopped me cold. Pass.
Head_prosthesis
I know a few.

Just "fill the hole" I say.

Alice the absinthe eater
and which hole is it that you like filled?
absinthist
QUOTE(speedle @ Feb 14 2008, 07:49 AM) *

Yes, but these self-appointed "foodies" apparently haven't taken the time or effort to really understand and get familiar with what they are supposedly "testing".


No matter how noromic™ they might sound, they weren't tasting spectacular products, either.
kaiser
but they are far from bad products. (well i can't comment on the mansinthe)

that review is like having blind people judge paintings.
absinthist
As long as they can smell the pigments used, they are safe.

They are closer than you would think, of course if you really like them, your choice.
Mistinguett
http://dlisted.com/node/23582

My favorite celeb gossip site. They hate it too.
Absomphe
QUOTE(kaiser @ Feb 14 2008, 10:16 AM) *

that review is like having blind people judge paintings.


They'd do just as well as the sighted on Jack the Dripper's xit.
Oxygenee
The initial Epicurious review is completely incompetent, and as has been pointed out, likely conducted by people with little if any idea of what absinthe should taste and smell like. What's much more disturbing though is the active publicity campaign to disseminate this review as widely as possible. It was posted on several PR websites and has now appeared in dozens of online publications (with the tasters now described as "a panel of experts", something not claimed in the original blog). Those of you with Google Alerts will have seen some of these, such as:

http://www.nme.com/news/marilyn-manson/34391
http://www.revolvermag.com/content/absinth…sinthe-mansucks
http://www.pr-inside.com/manson-s-absinthe…ste-r437640.htm

This seems to be concerted effort, perpetrated quite possibly by a rival manufacturer or would-be manufacturer.
Donnie Darko
Good god. All the articles are referring to the epicurious blog (since when is a blog a reliable journalistic source?!?) say "the world's alcohol experts" or "Absinthe experts" reached some sort of consensus review. Nothing could be further from the truth. A total of 4 reviewers with little to no absinthe tasting experience (the site refers to them as "the crack team of unofficially deputized Epicurious tasters") or even knowledge of what was in the drink wrote some half-assed vague and barely descriptive reviews resultant from a blind taste testing in plastic cups which likely do not have the proper rating to contain high proof ethanol. Yes, experts indeed.

Doesn't epicurious have some connection to Wormwood society? I remember it being promoted by a member there, though maybe it's just Michael Park that's the member.
absinthist
QUOTE
Michael Y. Park is a writer living in Brooklyn, New York. He studied medieval history as an undergraduate at the University of Chicago, and journalism as a graduate student at New York University. His stories have appeared in publications including The New York Times,the New York Post, and the Toronto Globe and Mail. He has feasted at a picnic with the king and queen of Malaysia, and dined on roadside kebabs while disguised as a Hazara tribesman in Afghanistan. He runs a monthly grilling competition in New York City and actually owns a kitchen torch.


Only that information is on the blog.
Patlow
Yeah I saw that this morning as I did my requisite check in on nme.com. What a load of shite.
Oxygenee
QUOTE(Donnie Darko @ Feb 15 2008, 03:51 PM) *

Good god. All the articles are referring to the epicurious blog (since when is a blog a reliable journalistic source?!?) say "the world's alcohol experts" or "Absinthe experts" reached some sort of consensus review. Nothing could be further from the truth. A total of 4 reviewers with little to no absinthe tasting experience (the site refers to them as "the crack team of unofficially deputized Epicurious tasters") or even knowledge of what was in the drink wrote some half-assed vague and barely descriptive reviews resultant from a blind taste testing in plastic cups which likely do not have the proper rating to contain high proof ethanol. Yes, experts indeed.


The various blogs and journals that have run this story have not just all coincidentally read the Epicurious review, they've obviously been sent a press-release from a PR web distribution company that not only highlights the negative aspects of the review, but represents the tasters as "expert judges". One of Mansinthe's competitors, or potential competitors, appears to have seen the original review, and realized that they could use it for their own ends. This is one from the The Department of Dirty Tricks.
Wilson
No vendor of decent absinthe would want this to happen to them. From what I hear, the Mansinthe is pretty good stuff. I have not had a chance to sample it yet, but hope to soon.

Speaking of sampling, my order of Doub's Mystique arrived and I tasted it last night. It was wonderful stuff. You did a great job on it, Oxygenee. Hartsmar has my review of it and will get it posted.
Provenance
QUOTE(Oxygenee @ Feb 15 2008, 10:39 AM) *
This is one from the The Department of Dirty Tricks.

And apparently from a Eurocentric interest since they haven't promoted the negative "reviews" of the US-legal products.
Provenance
Since the PR is directed primarily at the music press -- not spirits industry publications, I wonder if the target is MM personally rather than the product with his name.
Patlow
Unfairly singling out Marilyn Manson??? That could never happen…
Provenance
If the readers of NME are disenchanted with Mansinthe, they are more likely to drink something other than another brand of absinthe, if for no other reason than they are unlikely to be able to name another brand.

While someone associated with Czechsinth might be responsible, the PR may well be related to something other than absinthe.
Provenance
Of course, Czechsinth qualifies as being unrelated to absinthe.
Steve
It's on the San Francisco Chronicle website today too:

Manson's Absinthe Fails To Pass the Test
I hope it comes out who is promoting this.
Provenance
So the Chronicle's website is covering only the slam on Mansinthe, not on the products for sale in the US.
Patlow
QUOTE(Provenance @ Feb 15 2008, 11:39 AM) *

If the readers of NME are disenchanted with Mansinthe, they are more likely to drink something other than another brand of absinthe, if for no other reason than they are unlikely to be able to name another brand.

While someone associated with Czechsinth might be responsible, the PR may well be related to something other than absinthe.


Yeah. No shit.
Head_prosthesis
Why weren't they clever enough to
just put a Click to view attachment next to it?
Donnie Darko
Whoever the PR person is, they must be very savvy about disingenuous journalistic tendencies to exaggerate in order to serve the desired storyline.

Of Marilyn Manson, Ted and Kubler, which one do you think will get the most people to read the article? Why it's MM, of course, so lets make him the headline. A small group of inexperienced tasters disliked his absinthe during an informal tasting? Nah, that's not really a "story", let's say this self-described "crack team of tasters" are in fact "Experts" and that there was a consensus among "many alcohol experts" that his absinthe was horrible. NOW we've got a story. Headline: Manson's Absinthe Suxxx Satan's Cock

The fact that Oxy thinks it might be a "would-be" competitor is intriguing. Pretty gutsy move to orchestrate a public derision of another absinthe when you don't yet have your product on the market. (It's also worth noting that while MM's absinthe isn't a US Absinthe, weren't they trying to get it approved for US distribution?)
Provenance
QUOTE(Donnie Darko @ Feb 15 2008, 01:35 PM) *
let's say this self-described "team of crack tasters" are in fact "Experts"
Oxygenee
QUOTE(Donnie Darko @ Feb 16 2008, 12:35 AM) *


The fact that Oxy thinks it might be a "would-be" competitor is intriguing.


This is just guesswork, I have no idea (yet) who is responsible, but someone certainly has orchestrated this, and it's presumably a competitor or would-be competitor who would have the most to gain from doing so. It's not hard to do: most firms already use sites like http://www.prweb.com/ (there are dozens of other similar ones) to distribute their press releases. The take-up of a particular press release depends largely on whether the story has an interest factor or special angle which will intrigue a general audience. The perpetrator in this case shrewdly realized that anything to do with Marilyn Manson is news, and guaranteed a take-up in the entire music press and much of the general press as well. At the same time, to stick the knife in even deeper, he distorted the original Epicurious blog report to make the tasting panel sound authorative and expert, not just like a bunch of clueless slackers who happened to be hanging around the office at the time.
sixela
QUOTE(Oxygenee @ Feb 15 2008, 09:56 AM) *

The initial Epicurious review is completely incompetent, and as has been pointed out, likely conducted by people with little if any idea of what absinthe should taste and smell like. What's much more disturbing though is the active publicity campaign to disseminate this review as widely as possible.



Now in Dutchlandia: "Marilyn Manson absinthe is sewage water" on the "De Telegraaf" web site.

Kewl. Another proof that newspapers think that their web content need not be checked for accuracy at all.
Zenzero
just spread the news?! no.gif
dom_lochet
This high piece of journalism is being relayed in France too…
Nephrite
Maybe some of these journalists are absinthe drinkers who want to keep absinthe in the dark? This may not be a conspiracy… but self preservation?

I sadly witnessed the emerging marketing trends of the single malt scotch whisky industry between 1993-2000. History may be repeating itself here soon for the absinthe market. Watch for absinthe distilleries being bought out by "Diageo"… evill.gif

It's hard to get a bottle of pre-ban absinthe today… I don't see any on the Internet. If I were a journalist reviewing Lagavulin 10 years ago, I would say it reminded me of Chloraseptic, cigar smoke and puke! To late now.

Now that absinthe is no longer banned, bad press may be the best thing for us who are new and old to absinthe, if we want to keep our costs down and our pre-bans available for a couple more years.
Alan
French coverage here.

Personally I doubt whether this is a "dirty trick." Manson is high profile and once the original review had been picked up by other journalists, the story gathered its own momentum. This is a "conspiracy" to go alongside the British government and Prince Philip's "assassination" of Princess Diana.

Nephrite
There is a special place for conspiracies. Some of them have a way of influencing political, social, economic and marketing trends… others do not.
Oxygenee
QUOTE(Alan @ Feb 18 2008, 11:50 AM) *

French coverage here.

Personally I doubt whether this is a "dirty trick." Manson is high profile and once the original review had been picked up by other journalists, the story gathered its own momentum. This is a "conspiracy" to go alongside the British government and Prince Philip's "assassination" of Princess Diana.


It may have a life of its own now, but it was done deliberately to start with. PR distribution websites don't pick up things at random from blogs, someone with a subscription has to post the article there. And all the early mentions spoke of a "panel of experts" or similar, something not claimed in the actual Epicurious blog.
Alan
The "conspiracy" grows:

More bad news …

"And there is more trouble on the horizon as the official Mansinthe website (mansinthe.com) has been put on the Google blacklist as the site has been identified as a one that may install malicious software on your computer."

When I do a Google search for Mansinthe, this is where I get taken to.

I have advised Markus.
dom_lochet
From Alan's last link:
QUOTE
The launch of Marilyn Manson own brand of absinthe is not exactly being positively embraced by critics. Most compared the drink's odour to sewage water and one even described the taste as being "as bad as piss". One wonders how this critic would know this… The beverage, launched under the name 'Mansinthe', has also been receiving negative comments by a panel at the gourmet food website www.epicurious.com


It's getting worse: now they're talking as if epicurious and the "critics" who compared Mansinthe to sewage water were not the same guys.
Donnie Darko
It's like journalism has been replaced by gossip.
Jaded Prole
You still believe in journalism?
Marc
QUOTE(Provenance @ Feb 15 2008, 08:24 PM) *

QUOTE(Oxygenee @ Feb 15 2008, 10:39 AM) *
This is one from the The Department of Dirty Tricks.

And apparently from a Eurocentric interest since they haven't promoted the negative "reviews" of the US-legal products.

QUOTE(Provenance @ Feb 15 2008, 08:28 PM) *

Since the PR is directed primarily at the music press -- not spirits industry publications, I wonder if the target is MM personally rather than the product with his name.

Good points, Mansinthe is not a US-legal absinthe yet, so which US producer would benefit from this conspiracy?
Or it is all about the imminent launch of Mansinthe in the US.
Whatever, that's a low blow.
Provenance
It's not just the MM absinthe which is being panned.

Marilyn Manson absinthe 'as bad as piss' say critics + official site spreads malicious software

QUOTE
And there is more trouble on the horizon as the official Mansinthe website (mansinthe.com) has been put on the Google blacklist as the site has been identified as a one that may install malicious software on your computer.
Marc
Yep, it's exactly 5 posts above yours wink.gif

I'm not really familiar with "conspiracies" coming from PRs, blogs or whatever, is it something usual in the US that has been seen before in the spirits world ?
Provenance
Ask someone who has learned to PTFA.
Alan
QUOTE(mthuilli @ Feb 18 2008, 08:32 AM) *
I'm not really familiar with "conspiracies" coming from PRs, blogs or whatever, is it something usual in the US that has been seen before in the spirits world ?
Not to my knowledge (and over the last 20 years I probably have more direct experience of the big liquor companies than most other members here). I'm still intrigued how Oxy can be so sure about this, especially since press releases sent out over prweb (as an example) are very visible. Searching absinthe on PR web shows who has used this in recent years (LDF and Doubs).


Nephrite
QUOTE(Alan @ Feb 18 2008, 01:56 PM) *

When I do a Google search for Mansinthe, this is where I get taken to.


Apparently their WordPress stats tracking is creating the issue. Wordpress will catch hell for this. When I visit mansinthe.com, my anti-virus (Kaspersky) launches the following warning.

File contains Trojan program. You are advised to terminate the download.

Trojan program:
Trojan-DownloadeHTML.Agent.js

File:
…iframe/wp-stats.php
speedle
Well, I hope we all can see now, without using the word "conspiracy" too broadly, that this wasn't an accident. It just really sucks for the distiller and distributor that the MM name has been used as a bulls-eye in this campaign of idiocy.

sixela
QUOTE(Jaded Prol @ Feb 18 2008, 04:06 PM) *

You still believe in journalism?

Was the emphasis on the word 'believe' a subtle pun?

Tsk, tsk.
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