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hartsmar
According to the manufacturer: Angélique is a genuine Verte Suisse absinthe, distilled using 12 plants, including angelica and grande wormwood from the Val-de-Travers. Steeping a mixture of aromatic plants in the distillate produces its natural colour.

AVERAGE SCORE 79


Reviewed by EdouardPerneau 5/8/2008

COLOR BEFORE WATER 9/10
green nice

LOUCHE ACTION 9/10
fast and thick

COLOR AFTER WATER 9/10
thcik greenish louche

AROMA 25/30
very nice no trace of funk

MOUTH-FEEL 8/10
thick bitter but pleasant

TASTE 18/20
very great forest like, complex

OVERALL IMPRESSION 9/10
this absinthe is very nice one of my favorite it give what a bootleg Val-de Travers verte could be and it is very nice .

EdouardPerneau scores Angélique Verte suisse 72% 87 out of 100


Reviewed by absinthist 8/11/2008

COLOR BEFORE WATER 6/10
very delicate greenish tinge, striving towards yellow, indicates traditional and natural colouration but for my taste could be much darker.

LOUCHE ACTION 10/10
not too hasty, forms slowly, nice.

COLOR AFTER WATER 9/10
Greenish and slightly opaque.

AROMA 24/30
inviting, herbal, alcoholic, fennel tries to overpower angelica and wormwood, finally absinthe from Switzerland where anise knows its place.

MOUTH-FEEL 7/10
Very complex, fiery and spicy, strong wormwoodiness follows the rest and the spiciness burns like a torch on the palate, very pleasant sensation.

TASTE 18/20
Short-lived, wormwood and angelica, some anise fades away.

OVERALL IMPRESSION 6/10
I do not perceive there that awful bitterness some were complaining about, this is very good, well-balanced extrait which might benefit from stronger colouration.

absinthist scores Angelique Verte Suisse 80 out of 100


Reviewed by Wolfgang 11/13/2008

COLOR BEFORE WATER 10/10
Very nice and natural slightly golden green. I can?t see any problem there.

LOUCHE ACTION 9/10
I?m pouring ice cold water over sugar on a vintage spoon. At 72%, it can sustain some water before beginning to louche. It gives you a chance to see it develop one drop at a time, first drawing some light tendrils of disturbed herbal essences but it is not louching yet. When the louche does begin, it forms an interesting and uneven cloud, as if it was so thick the first louche had a tendency to develop right under where the drop of water fell and not elsewhere. This unstable state can stand for minutes if you don?t share the glass. I now dare to disturb it a bit faster to observe the formation of the usual layer but I went to fast and it is now completely louched at about 1:3. Going slower and drop by drop is advisable and would probably allow one to gradually get rid of the layer of unlouched absinthe up to 1:4 water ratio. Now it is completely and thickly louched.
This is one of the best louche action I have seen even if a little fast. It is well worth taking your time doing it manually with a spoon.

COLOR AFTER WATER 9/10
Nothing to complain about here. Maybe it is a little bit too thick and would be more pleasing to the eye at a higher dilution but it would make it taste thin so I prefer to leave it as is.

AROMA 22/30
neat: Somewhat alcoholic and a tiny bit funky. Not bad but not perfect. May improve with age as this is still a very young distillation.
Louched : it remains reserved. It reminds me of a wine that is still too young and need a few years to fully develop. I don't know if this is what will happen to my second bottle I got for aging. Only time will tell. The funky hint is lowered, adding water brought out the anis needed to balance it all. It is fine but not as exuberant as I would like. Collecting just a bit less distillate would make it excellent. edit: I now have the confirmation this was batch related, my other bottle is much better. The better batch evolve into a lovely spiciness if you let the glass stand for a while (cinnamon, nutmeg, pepper?). I'm pretty sure those spices are not in there but this is the impression it gives. the better bottle rates much higher, ending up at 88%).

MOUTH-FEEL 8/10
Not as thick as I would expect while looking at it but still very nice.

TASTE 17/20
properly and slowly louching this nice verte over sugar really brings out its potential. This glass if really balanced, leaving some peppery notes in the finish. There?s just enough bitterness to allow a perfect balance with sugar. There are just enough herbal flavors without being heavy. Anis is strong and even a little bit tongue numbing at this water ratio but I like it. If only it would smell and fill the room with perfume as it taste, it would be wonderful.

OVERALL IMPRESSION 8/10
A very nice absinthe verte, well done and worth putting aside for some aging. I?m glad I can now put my hands on such a fine product. This absinthe is growing on me. My first glass was quite ordinary but this one is the third (the first tonight mind you). It probably needed some breathing after first opening the bottle. I also like the 72% concentration. I?m not paying for water and I like to add the water myself.

Wolfgang scores Angelique Verte Suisse 83 out of 100



Reviewed by Communikaze 12/18/2008

COLOR BEFORE WATER 8/10

Pale green towards yellow. Looks perfectly natural which is why I would rate it high. Attaining a deeper color might influence the taste and I don´t think that this or that tone of natural green should influence my opinion.

LOUCHE ACTION 10/10
This absinthe produces the expected oil trails and quickly produces a steady louche. in general it "behaves" like a real absinthe should do upon adding water.

COLOR AFTER WATER 8/10
Despite of its pale color before water it maintains the pale, ghost-green color as seen with traditional verte absinthes.

AROMA 17/30
Above average. Intense and complex, very herbal with a clear note of wormwood. there is a sweetnes most likely from anise and fennel. The alcohol is easily detected (pretty obvious due to the high strength). After water the notes get a bit more rounded I now detect a slight acidity/freshness. It is not as appealing as other verte absinthes, but it is interesting.

MOUTH-FEEL 5/10
Initially it is good and creamy, second tongue is slightly numbed on the sides due to the wormwood. The drawback is afterwards, where I feel a dryness in the back of the mouth related to the bitter aftertaste. Personally I dont like this feeling (as I don´t like dry wines and bitter beer). I won´t rule out that it might appeal to some.

TASTE 14/20
Complex, herbal, fresh and interesting indeed, a lot of stuff competes about the attention of your tasting buds. However the after taste is quite bitter which is a drawback to me. The bitterness stays in the mouth and overpowers the other interesting compositions. the bitterness stays as the main impression and this is a major drawback to me.

OVERALL IMPRESSION 5/10
Unfortunately not good. I had expected a more balanced experience. This is because of the bitter aftertaste. Apperantly is is colored with Artimisia Absinthium (Grande wormwood) which is intended. According to some sources it may has its audience. I am most likely not a part of the target-group and personally.

PERSONAL NOTES
I opened this bottle 7 months ago. It was only three months by then, and way sharper. It definately needs some aging. By now, the absinthe is a bit more smooth and rounded. However, the dryness/bitterness is still present and way to dominant. Even with sugar it does not dissappear. This absinth could be improved towards a broader audience. I would really like to try it colored with another kind of wormwood or perhaps with only with more grande wormwood in the destillate. Besides that, it is well crafted as many other products from the same producent. In its present form and to the price I cannot recommend it - especially not to beginners. However I´m positive, with minor modifications it may improve a lot.

Communikaze scores Angelique Verte Suisse 67 out of 100


Steve
I won't review the Angelique, because I won't buy a bottle of something I already know I hate.
Donnie Darko
Is it colored with AA or something?

I'm not trying to impugn any reviewer's integrity, but having heard consistently unenthusiastic reports of Angelique from reliable tasters I know, and then seeing fairly favorable reviews from two people whose reviews of Jade products deviate towards the negative far more than other experienced tasters, it seems these reviews do not reflect typical preferences here. Nothing wrong with that, but it probably wouldn't affect what I choose to drink.
EdouardPerneau
QUOTE(Donnie Darko @ Aug 13 2008, 05:38 AM) *

Is it colored with AA or something?


Yes is there a small amount in it ! But Is there something wrong with someone that don't like PF 1901 ?
I don't think so … Probably is there more people (shy to be bashed) that might don't like Ted products since almost everybody here likes them
Donnie Darko
Not at all. Giving a near elite score to something that is incorrectly colored (yes, coloring with AA is a blunder, not something that's OK because the distiller thinks it is OK) and bashing another product that most everyone agrees is at minimum a decent product just means your tastes are divergent from the norm. You are entitled to your opinion though. You think Jade is not very good and something colored incorrectly is good, seems pretty clear to me.
EdouardPerneau
I agree that is different and not traditional to color with Artemisia Absinthium but I do like it and I wasn't horribly bitter as other seems to say .

I did love Jade when I've got my first 5 bottles of it ( Verte Suisse,Nouvelle Orléans,PF 1901 ,Edouard,blanchette) I loved especialy :
Blanchette
Nouvelle Orléans
Edouard
Verte Suisse but :

for PF 1901 at the first batch It was great less good than Edouard to my taste but very nice … but with the issues that I got from PF 1901 and blanchette I had got with the last batch… it tasted weak and faded compared to the '06 batch …
Donnie Darko
Perhaps it is a language barrier issue, but an absinthe that, in Absinthist's words, "burns like a torch through the palate" generally doesn't merit a positive mouth feel score. If it did, more distillers would be coloring with AA, or perhaps a little Habanero?
EdouardPerneau
wink.gif Of course Donnie , but did you taste it BTW ?Or just base you opinion on the review of the others ?
absinthist
It was an allusion to the famous description of whisky tasting ("A torchlight procession marching down your throat"-John Louis O'Sullivan), hence it is a positive remark as regards the alcohol bite and spiciness, not the colouring which as for my palate is regarded doesn't yield anything I would associate with AA's awful and acrid bitterness.
Jaded Prole
You're palate has been destroyed by heavy exposure to tansy after which, nothing could possibly taste bitter.

I've tasted it (Angelique).

It sux, but it is better than Tit's HG.
absinthist
Prol, tansy isn't bitter. Check in Duplais or on the field.

QUOTE
It sux, but it is better than Tit's HG.


As if you had that many, buddy to form an authoritative opinion.
dom_lochet
QUOTE(EdouardPerneau @ Aug 13 2008, 12:37 PM) *
wasn't horribly bitter as other seems to say.


The recipe has changed. I tasted Angélique last year in Boveresse and it had a terribly bitter aftertaste. Now Bugnon uses less A.a. in the coloring step. I tasted it again this year and though I wouldn't call it a great "verte", it was much better.
Alan
Claude-Alain's aim was not to make just another Verte and in that he has obviously succeeded. I too was surprised when he first told me he intended to use Aa in the colouring step and the first results were certainly quite …"extreme." Subsequent batches work a lot better … and longer aging helps it too.

In his words, Angélique was created to respond to the demands from some of our customers for a stronger absinthe with a reduced anise flavour. We've never hidden the colouring step method.

It's proving especially popular in the German-speaking area of Switzerland where it is drunk with very little water, and, in some cases, like a schnapps. It is certainly a surprising, interesting absinthe and we never expected to have widescale acclaim for it, least of all on the English forums.
Donnie Darko
QUOTE(EdouardPerneau @ Aug 13 2008, 06:59 AM) *

wink.gif Of course Donnie , but did you taste it BTW ?Or just base you opinion on the review of the others ?

I have not tasted it. I'm not commenting on the taste. I'm commenting on the comments. I don't think I'm out of line saying it is never OK to color with AA, regardless of how it tastes. Nor am I out of line in pointing out that the terminology used by absinthist in describing the mouthfeel is not usually what one would consider to be descriptive of a good mouthfeel.
absinthist
Donnie, why aren't you paying attention to my words and a quote they were based on? If the mouthfeel was wrong I would admit it, but I haven't.

Ordinaire's Blunder is of course wrong, but it does still depend on the process it has been applied thru. In case of Angelique, EVEN IF the portion of Aa was included in the colouration stage (and I do see the tinge that might be yielded by Aa in the sample, so no doubt about it), it has been done professionally and flawlessly and not excessively, what would ruin the main distillate's taste and mask the other colouring herbs and heart's nuances.

The fact, that Angelique came together with PF1901 is a pure coincidence. Together with them came another extrait and non-absinthe product, both I have reviewed as well.
Provenance
QUOTE(Alan @ Aug 13 2008, 03:57 AM) *
Claude-Alain's aim was not to make just another Verte and in that he has obviously succeeded.

I suspect it may be a bit more difficult to create a "perfect" classic verte than simply to make something different (Mr. Bugnon is far from alone in his interest in making something different.) Why not first master a classic verte before attempting a Monty Pythonesque, Now-For-Something-Completely-DifferentSinthe?
G&C
Indeed.
Jaded Prole
QUOTE
EVEN IF the portion of Aa was included in the colouration stage (and I do see the tinge that might be yielded by Aa in the sample, so no doubt about it), it has been done professionally and flawlessly . . .



A flawless blunder is still a blunder.
Steve
A flawless abomination.
dakini_painter
QUOTE(Provenance @ Aug 13 2008, 09:38 AM) *

Mr. Bugnon is far from alone in his interest in making something different.


Most people practicing a discipline that is as much as art as science will be pulled by human nature to exercise their creativity. Discoveries are always made by following a well trod path, are they not?
Kirk
They truly are.
Only a hack gets creative before learning the basics through constant repetition. Change should happen in small increments and then only as an intimate response.
When dealing with a tradition like distilling absinthe, change could be considered a flaw.
Absomphe
QUOTE(absinthist @ Aug 13 2008, 04:30 AM) *

As if you had that many, buddy to form an authoritative opinion.


I wouldn't doubt that.
dakini_painter
I completely agree that innovation derives from knowledge as well as stepping outside the boundaries of the common view. I'm sure your skills did not come from mindlessly flailing away at the silver.

I remember it being posted that the La Bleue distillers have had a habit of using AA instead of AP in the coloring of their vertes. When did this habit arise? Has it been in use since the Swiss Ban, or is it more recent than that? If it goes back to the Ban, or even before, does that not qualify as a tradition within the context of the geography and people of a particular region?

This isn't a defense of the Czech producers who might produce a bitter macerated absinthe as they have no tradition of absinthe though they have a tradition of bitter spirits.

I only had the Angelique once, and I suspect it was an earlier batch than the one now. I did not find the bitterness in the finish to be desirable. It otherwise seemed a decent spirit.
Donnie Darko
Bugnon is a competent distiller, and I like Clandestine for the most part. If one likes wormwood though, the best characteristics of its aroma and taste can be brought out by distilling it, and that has been clearly established for centuries. I don't even understand the point of using it to color, since it's honestly more trouble than it is worth. Does it impart green? Yes, a very nice shade actually, but to avoid the astringency of it one would have to use so little of it in the coloring that it's honestly just a complete waste. The coloring step is to impart additional aroma and taste, the green being a desirable secondary goal. The only thing about wormwood that cannot be captured via distillation easily is the fucking nasty parts of its taste. So why on earth would anyone want to capture some of the repugnant aspects of the plant, even if its in small quantities?

Quite honestly, if the wormwood profile in his blanches wasn't considered sufficient, then the problem lies in the qualiy of the wormwood he is using. Using it in the coloring isn't going to help, and the better quality the wormwood is, the more it would ruin the taste if used in the coloring step.
Doctor Love

Why not just add more wormwood to the first maceration prior to distillation if it's just a matter of wormwood flavor? Or was the point just to see if it could be done without destroying the drink?

Jaded Prole
Its a stubborn error on the part of the maker. Period.

One might as well add some peat to a bottle of good Scotch and claim it as an attempt to make something different . . .

Had he used Roman Wormwood instead, the Angelique would be a nice Absinthe.
Doctor Love
So there's no pontica used at all? I've heard rumors that the maker does not like the flavors of pontica and that's why he used A.a. in coloration, anyone know if there's truth to that or whether the whole thing is just more of an experiment?

Alan
Pontica is used. I don't know where the rumours of not liking Pontica come from.

It's not an experiment.
Doctor Love

Ok, good to know, no offense meant wormwood.gif
Donnie Darko
What is the Tjone content? Using AA in the coloring would likely put it over EU limits, would it not, unless it was a wormwood cultivar that was low in Tjone.

It's apparent that there is no good reason beyond "personal preference" to do such a thing.
Alan
It's EU legal. I don't intend to publish our tjone figures.
Meatwaggon
That's not nice Alan. I'd like to know if I'm going to Trip Ballz with your absinthe. If not I'm going to have to go for some strong 69.
OCvertDe
I don't think tripping is what you'll be doing with balls if you go for 69…
Zenzero
How about an even stronger 96?
OCvertDe
How's that work, you just change who's on top?
Zenzero
That's when done, vast asleep lying back to back so she won't have
to wake me up by asking things like "how long did it take you eventually" and
"could you please get of, of me I really need to take a piss now"

Or whatever it is that'll make you trip ballz.
hartsmar
All I can say is that when I first tasted the Angelique a little over a year ago I hated it. The A.a used in coloring made it far to bitter and sadly ruined what seemed to be a perfectly good drink up until that bitter hit you. This summer in Boveresse I tried it again and it had changed a lot. I still think it's too dry and bitter from A.a in coloring but it was much better than the first one. Still, I think he should just leave that whole A.a coloring out of it and set out to make a traditional verte. I'm sure it would be quite good.

As I said, the Angelique without the bitter finish would be a pretty good drink. Not the best, but good.
Zenzero
Yeah right, I'm awfully sorry, let's focus and stay on topic here.
I keep mixing up these forums a little to often. PTFA.

I have a blanche distilled from a blend of verte and other blanche leftovers (no, not heads and tails) I bottled it and threw in a small branch of A.a. The colour turned from transparent slightly to yellow during the last months. I just named it a La Bleue Amer and the result is'nt bad at all, not even a bit.
hartsmar
Dr.O?
Zenzero
Could well be, but I wouldn't know, I never got myself into reading other recipes very well.
I do not eschew experimenting with herbs and their dosage for that matter.
Generally I'm not walking the tread paths that often lead to known, tried and tested results.
It's always a challenge that makes it all worth doing, being non conform is what makes it a pleasure to do, certainly if all your sub, semi or pseudoscientific experimenting ends up to be a absinthe with *an extremely high 2jone content.



*(I'm joking here)



hartsmar
Tread paths, especially the paths to absinthe, often lead to decent results. I'm sorry, coloring with A.a isn't even "experimenting". It's just wrong. WRONG I TELL YOU!
Zenzero
Listen hartsmar with all due respect, I'm not even taking your knowledge about all this in doubt.

But again, what might be considered wrong by many or a certain few cannot always be assumed or accepted as common sense and therefore the absolute truth. What anyone might interpret as solely wrong can be judged as righteous by others no matter how dubious that opinion might seem.

It's often a personal interpretation of facts and experiences no matter
if agreed upon democratically or in other imaginable ways.

It's not my mission to reinvent the wheel or my style to reproduce what already has been proved and done many times before and again it's all about pioneering, improvising and discovering alternative ways to improve a product, sometimes you succeed and sometimes you don't

We all have the right to have an opinion, but it doesn't make you or me an authority on a particular subject.
hartsmar
We do have our right to have an opinion. An opinion doesn't make it any more right though.
Jaded Prole
Hartsmar's right. Coloring with AA is wrong, incorrect, period. It's not a "matter of opinion," or a style. It's an error that shows your level of understanding.
Helfrich
Exactly.
Zenzero
I still beg to differ about that If I’m allowed at least.

As for theoretical matters you could speak of a not so thoroughly level of understanding and maybe you would like to even call me plain stupid, ignorant or stubborn (which again is a personal opinion to me) but in reality coloring with A.a. doesn't per se have to ruin or spoil a perfectly good absinthe, just call it a ''Amer'' so it'll fit right in to that specific product category.

You'll probably know the characteristic taste of a Libertine Amer which, however not colored with A.a, or even prepared with A.a., is called horribly bitter by some gourmands. Using Roman wormwood instead of A.a. for a change, gives it just that bitter aspect, some appreciate and some specifically do not about it, despite it all, there are far more effective ways to ruin a distilled absinthe.

So A.a. sometimes is a good alternative herb to be used to finish the taste of another delicious absinthe.
Anyway there will always be discrepancy over numerous subjects concerning this kind of issues, which is a good sign
because it'll keep the fire on this very forum fiercely burning.

I'm sure there's enough room, sense and respect for one and another around here and anywhere else in the world for other convictions and difference in taste and personal preferences.

In the end it actually doesn't matter at all who's right or wrong here.
Tibro
I think it matters a great deal who's right and wrong. If, indeed, it's to be put into those terms. Which definitely puts it into a realm beyond opinion.

As for the amer classification, you seem to take it much more literally than any CO does. As far as I can tell this designation is purely a stupid t-jone line in the sand. Distillers' absinthes are not significantly more bitter when the legal necessity of amer labeling is called for. Maceraters's absinths are not significantly less bitter when the amer label requirements are not met. It's just kind of a loophole that recognizes that t-jones don't really matter and the limits are a bit arbitrary and the research has borne this out. It's not factually used to distinguish less from more bitter. Red, er, herring, I'd guess you'd call that.

My personal opinion is that A.a. is wrong in the coloration step. Macerated A.a. yields an absinth(e)-oriented, herbal bitters, perchance. Not real absinthe. And I fully support the production of herbal liquors and herbal bitters. I don't support labeling it absinthe in that case.
Gertz
The question is still: Why????

Trying to do things a new way is all good and fine, but there has to be a purpose to it. A. absinthium has an overpowering bitterness. Someone, back in the olden days, came up with the brilliant idea to distill the macerate, and lo and behold! All the nice flavours of wormwood got separated from that nasty bitterness. To add A.a. to that distillate again simply doesn't make sense.
Kirk
QUOTE
I'm sure there's enough room, sense and respect for one and another around here and anywhere else in the world for other convictions and difference in taste and personal preferences.

I gather by this statement that you are the dumb ass who colors this absinthe with A.a?
Zenzero
I couldn't care less about the amount of 2jone a absinthe contains, does it have a taste at all??

I never tried those Czech oil mixtures that are not supposed to be sold as absinthe in the first place, I like savoring well distilled modern absinthe, and I like special versions that maybe are somewhat different from the regular ones.


I know Pernod, macerated and filtered Versinthe, Apsinthion Deluxe, Absinthe Vincent and Lemercier's crapy synthetic 72% mixture and that's just as far as my experience with non absinthe goes, after your reply Amer and probably a few more products from the Devoile distilleries may be added to that list.



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