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bob_chong
Forget politics--bring on the naughty librarian!
Jaded Prole
I knew you'd like his pick.

If I was a right-winger, I'd have preferred someone like Linda Chavez or Elizabeth Dole who might seem more ready to assume the Presidency in a pinch. On the other hand, by choosing in inexperienced Evangelic ideologue McCain only shows what poor judgment he has so it's just as well.
Lord Stanley
Is it possible that nobody else felt like visting Minnesota this weekend? This was the best option McCain could come up with?

It just reeks of a desperate, double-demographic attempt to attract disenfranchised female and Evangelical voters. I guess he couldn't think of anyone who was blind, Hispanic and lesbian as well. I'm sure we'd all be in great shape with her in the Oval Office after his old ass becomes incapacitated in the next few years.

Maybe he'll blame it on a "senior moment" and try again. Mulligan, anyone?

This election should be approached just like drafting a basketball team. When in doubt, pick the black guy.
Doctor Love

The thing is Stanley, one could say the same thing about the entire Obama candidacy.
Shabba53
QUOTE(Lord Stanley @ Aug 30 2008, 01:55 PM) *

It just reeks of a desperate, double-demographic attempt to attract disenfranchised female and Evangelical voters.


Yup.

QUOTE(Doctor Love @ Aug 30 2008, 02:46 PM) *

one could say the same thing about the entire Obama candidacy.


If that were the case, then he would have picked Hillary for VP.
Doctor Love

QUOTE(Shabba53 @ Aug 30 2008, 01:52 PM) *
If that were the case, then he would have picked Hillary for VP.


Obama should have picked Hillary, this race would be a blow-out. Instead he picked old Joe blow-hard Biden and opened the door for McCain.

Shabba53
I applaud his decision to not bow down to Hillary, who had been practically demanding she get the VP nod. That would have really called into question his character.

It might have been the easier route, but I would have lost all respect for him.
Doctor Love

I think it would have not only been politically expedient, but also gracious; it would have shown that he was truly interested in party (and in a way, bipartisan) unity by displaying a capability to compromise instead of taking a "my way or the highway" tack. Regardless, we'll see how it plays out, but I didn't understand the Biden pick honestly. He's one of the longest serving, most bitterly partisan members of the Senate, he's best known for being mouthy more than anything. I don't see how that fits with the agenda of being a new type of politician.

Lord Stanley
QUOTE(Doctor Love @ Aug 30 2008, 01:46 PM) *

The thing is Stanley, one could say the same thing about the entire Obama candidacy.


I see what you're saying to a certain point but disagree for 2 reasons.

1) Obama went through an arduous primary season to convince millions of Democratic voters that he was capable of leading and deserved a shot at the title. Palin met McCain once and talked to him again on the phone. That was all it took to convince him she was ready to be second in command? I doubt it.

2) One of the main criticisms of Obama by McCain and his supporters is lack of experience and unreadiness to lead. So he decides to choose someone even younger and less experienced with the Washington scene?

This VP pick was only designed to cater to certain demographics where he's lacking…women, Christians, non-geriatrics, Eskimoes…
Doctor Love

Well I very likely won't vote for either, so I'm not trying to make this a partisan back & forth, but I think there are some issues with your rationale:

1) Going through a political primary does not say that much to me. The guy gives a hell of a speech which is what got him to the top, but so do a lot of motivational speakers! Maybe we should elect Billy Mays as President, he'd probably convince Putin to get out of Georgia and buy some Mighty Putty to boot.

2) That's why he put her at the bottom of the ticket. Having a younger politician gain experience as VP is not an atypical thing for parties to do, it's a great opportunity to get experience for their young talent for future elections.

3) McCain is old at 72, but for modern times that's not elderly. If you make it to age 70, the average life expectancy goes up to 86.

While certainly McCain picked Palin because Obama did not pick Hillary, remember back when Geraldine Ferraro got treated like last night's leftovers when she suggested that Obama's race played a role in where he was today. That is not that far of a cry from the criticisms of Palin. Between that and some of the crap that Hillary got in the primary, I think it's fair to say that sexism is a bigger issue in modern America than racism is.

bob_chong
Sorry to disappoint, liberals, but Palin has more experience than Obama. It's a fact.

"…Obama is a US Senator of three years experience, and Palin is a governor of 20 months’ experience. Only Barack Obama has spent two of those three years not in the Senate doing his job but running for President. Before starting his bid, he had a grand total of less than 150 days in session in the Senate. Palin, on the other hand, has run her state for more than triple that time." link

- more executive experience than Obama
- more direct military experience than Obama and Biden combined
- fought corruption in her own party, unlike Obama's embrace of the dirty Chicago machine

etc.

Face it: you nominated an empty suit. But he still may win. And then it's Carter part deux.

"We are supposed to believe that a first- term Alaskan governor is less qualified for the second spot than a first-term Illinois Senator is for the Presidency—who once again just announced to the nation that he is ready to invade nuclear Islamic Pakistan to get bin Laden, who wanted all troops out of Iraq by March 2008, and who once dismissed Iran as a small threat." -VDH
bob_chong
QUOTE(Doctor Love @ Aug 30 2008, 05:58 PM) *

I think [picking Hillary] would have not only been politically expedient, but also gracious


As opposed to the juvenile stunt of the 3 AM txt mssg?
Nephrite
QUOTE

Sorry to disappoint, liberals, but Palin has more experience than Obama. It's a fact.


Good point.
Jaded Prole
QUOTE
Face it: you nominated an empty suit. But he still may win. And then it's Carter part deux.


Ah, the oft-repeated wright-wing talking points, next you'll start calling him by his middle name, as if that meant anything.

Comparing Obama with Carter may sound like an insult among the reactionary crowd but he is the last statesman to reside in the White House. In that regard, Obama shows promise. As for being an "empty suit," if you've observed him on the circuit and actually heard him address issues when he isn't making a speech, he seems to be a thoughtful, sensible, relatively conservative candidate with well-considered positions. He certainly would not have been my choice but I think he has the potential to be at very least, a competent leader and at most a great one. Given where the US is after eight years of criminal and incompetent misleadership and the challenges that face us from the ecology, to the economy to international relations, he may be Americas last chance. If economic devastation, war with Iran and possibly with Russia, and unchecked ecological calamity are the desired ends, than McCain is your man.

I think Biden was a good choice in giving the ticket what it otherwise lacked and he doesn't carry the baggage that a Clinton would bring. I would have preferred Senators Boxer or Feingold but his choice for VP, unlike McCain's, shows good judgment.
Donnie Darko
Why is anybody surprised? She's just Dick Cheney in a woman's body with less money and less experience. Seriously, policy-wise the only thing that distinguishes her and Cheney is she has a vagina and is a bit more of an evangelical Christian.

Are Republicans so dumb they think Hillary supporters will vote for a crazy old man just because he picked an anti-choice, anti-science, anti-evolution, anti-environment woman as a running mate? I hope so, we'll see where that gets them.

While we are speaking of evangelicals who Republicans rely upon as their base, how funny is it that James Dobson prayed for god to send a storm to Denver to disrupt Obama's speech, and what god has done instead is send hurricane Gustav hurtling towards New Orleans and Bush is likely going to cancel his appearance at the RNC because of it!

eric
The lord works in mysterious ways.
G&C
.
Doctor Love

QUOTE(Donnie Darko @ Aug 31 2008, 06:22 AM) *
Why is anybody surprised? She's just Dick Cheney in a woman's body with less money and less experience.


Were you being serious here?
Absomphe
Hey, G&C…

I don't know where you got our wedding photo, but Tish and I want it returned, pronto!
Jaded Prole
I think the comparison to Cheney is way off and gives her too much credit.

She's more like the Church Lady.
Doctor Love

The more people make petty and demeaning remarks about her the better the chances are that she'll pull votes of women who don't appreciate that manner of criticism. Something to keep in mind.

bob_chong
Biden is Cocaine Hussein's Cheney.

(Happy, Pole?)
Poke Salad Papa
On a different note and way off topic, we are ready for the big storm that is ready as we can be. It is supposed to come right over us with very high winds and over 11 inches of rain. These old bottoms and bayous will fill up fast as they are near full now, not worried bout my place but have friends that may be in trouble, So we all are having a bar b q tonight with plenty to drink and eat. May be a while before we can party again so we plan to make the best of it tonight.
Doctor Love

Best of luck PSP!
eric
Yes!, I am here in Austin. If there is anything I can do to help, let me know.

You too Impy.

Donnie Darko
QUOTE(bob_chong @ Aug 31 2008, 12:07 AM) *

Sorry to disappoint, liberals, but Palin has more experience than Obama. It's a fact.


No, it's not a fact.

QUOTE
"…Obama is a US Senator of three years experience, and Palin is a governor of 20 months’ experience. Only Barack Obama has spent two of those three years not in the Senate doing his job but running for President. Before starting his bid, he had a grand total of less than 150 days in session in the Senate. Palin, on the other hand, has run her state for more than triple that time." link


Come on Bob, you know better than that. You can't just pretend Obama's 6 years in the Illinois Senate don't count as "experience", nor can you just assume that "days in session" are the only thing a Senator does. Does hotair.com bother to say how many "Days in session" McCain has been in the Senate since he announced his candidacy? The least you could do is contemplate for 5 seconds whether the conservative-slime-double-standard-bullshit-du-jour-website is telling the whole story before you repost it here.

Would Jesus intentionally omit 6 years of Obama's legislative experience to make a political argument?

If you think Palin being mayor of a town of 9,000 people and a short stint as governor qualifies her for the job, then certainly 6 years as a state senator and 3 as a US senator counts in Obama's column. If Obama's time doesn't count as "Executive experience" because he didn't run a town (the logic your link uses), then neither does McCain's 26 years in the senate because he's never run a town either.

While she may be a MILF (maybe that's why McCain picked her?), you've got to omit lots and stretch lots to make it look like she has the most experience.

And I honestly don't care if she has 50+ years of legislative experience. She's a fool. She thinks the earth was made in 7 days and that a clump of dividing cells with no central nervous system is a child.
Donnie Darko
QUOTE(Doctor Love @ Aug 31 2008, 02:08 PM) *

The more people make petty and demeaning remarks about her the better the chances are that she'll pull votes of women who don't appreciate that manner of criticism. Something to keep in mind.


The more people make petty and demeaning remarks about Barack Obama (hussein, cocaine, muslim, not-an-american citizen, the antichrist, etc), the better the chances are that he'll pull votes of PEOPLE who don't appreciate that manner of criticism. Something to keep in mind.
Donnie Darko
QUOTE(Doctor Love @ Aug 30 2008, 02:46 PM) *

The thing is Stanley, one could say the same thing about the entire Obama candidacy.


Yes, but only if they were a total ignoramus.

So say it already…
Doctor Love

Why would I take part in a discussion about it if you're just going to hurl insults from the start?

Le Gimp
QUOTE(Poke Salad Papa @ Aug 31 2008, 01:01 PM) *

On a different note and way off topic, we are ready for the big storm that is ready as we can be. It is supposed to come right over us with very high winds and over 11 inches of rain. These old bottoms and bayous will fill up fast as they are near full now, not worried bout my place but have friends that may be in trouble, So we all are having a bar b q tonight with plenty to drink and eat. May be a while before we can party again so we plan to make the best of it tonight.

Hope you are doing well tonight Papa. Looks like the storm is coming a-shore.

Best wishes to you and everyone in the path.
dakini_painter
QUOTE(eric @ Aug 31 2008, 10:37 AM) *

The lord works in mysterious ways.


Amen, Brother.

And rather than all this bickering, let's gather together and pray (in whatever way that might be appropriate for you) for everyone in the face of the storm that's coming ashore. And especially for Poke Salad Papa and his family and friends. And the gators too. I know PSP would be real unhappy if after the storm he didn't have any friends to play with anymore.
Kirk
Hang in there pops.
Wilson
Getting the first drops of rain here in Natchez now. Not very windy yet, but it is coming. I am hunkered down and ready. I got all the projectiles off the porch. (chairs, bug light, etc) and took down all the bird feeders. The birds are not happy with me. I probably should stay indoors, cause they are giving me some mean looks.

Stay safe Papa. It's headed your way.
Donnie Darko
Yeah, stay safe PSP and everyone else near there. I saw it dropped to a category 2, which is still devastating but at least looks like it won't be as bad as Katrina.
Poke Salad Papa
Thanks folks for all the good mojo sent our way. We are as prepared as we can be, just gonna hunker down and wait.
Rimbaud
QUOTE(Doctor Love @ Aug 31 2008, 07:01 PM) *

Why would I take part in a discussion about it if you're just going to hurl insults from the start?


He's not hurling insults. He's providing the most thoughtful, intelligent, well-considered arguments in this thread.

So get your small-minded right-wing head out of your ass. (Yes, that was an insult, and well-deserved.)

BTW, hope all you folks in the eye of the storm are okay.
Doctor Love

QUOTE(Rimbaud @ Sep 1 2008, 10:46 AM) *
So get your small-minded right-wing head out of your ass. (Yes, that was an insult, and well-deserved.)


Right wing? Haha, you need to PTFA.

Lord Stanley
So now we find out that Palin's 17 year old daughter is 5 months pregnant. The plot thickens.

No need to malign the character of the governor or her daughter but it does illlustrate quite nicely the ongoing effectiveness of faith-based, abstinence-only education policies.
bob_chong
Or…it's a good illustration of people walking the talk: they don't kill babies b/c of Down syndrome or b/c the child may be born at an "inconvenient" time.

Sex ed is pointless and every instructional minute spent on that is a minute wasted, regardless of its philosophical bent. Why do the schools have to do the parents' job?
Wilson
Do you know what the education policies of her school are?
Shabba53
QUOTE(bob_chong @ Sep 1 2008, 07:55 PM) *

Sex ed is pointless and every instructional minute spent on that is a minute wasted, regardless of its philosophical bent. Why do the schools have to do the parents' job?

It's an unfortunate reality that most parents don't care enough to educate their children on most anything, let alone sex ed.

I think that a sexual education class, bundled up with a general health education (nutrition, fitness, sex, etc) class is a great thing. It doesn't have to have a slant, nor should it. That's what my school district did. If children don't know what the outcome of their actions could be, either positive or negative, then they won't be able to make an informed choice.
Tibro
QUOTE(Shabba53 @ Sep 2 2008, 02:11 AM) *

It's an unfortunate reality that most parents don't care enough to educate their children

I could actually come to respect you if you proved that. I believe it, but I also think I'm not really alone in taking responsibility for my kids' education. I care a shit-load, and most of the parents I meet in school meetings seem to care a shit-load. Not all have the resources or skills or even the knowledge to pass on to their kids, but it's not because they don't care. Not from what I've experienced. Are there statistics and studies that back-up your assertion that most parents don't care? Should I give up hope for humanity? Or is that just the way it seems for us "intellectuals"?
dakini_painter
I have a relative whose daughter got pregnant in her senior year in high school. They are an Evangelical family, taught her "No sex before marriage", and what they thought were strict controls including curfews wrt her boyfriend at the time. She was an A+ student. She had the baby, and didn't marry the boy (now that would have been a real mistake). She is raising the child with her parents help so she was able to finish school with only a small impact on her grades. She did that and is attending college now.


Shabba53
QUOTE(Tibro @ Sep 1 2008, 08:56 PM) *

I believe it, but I also think I'm not really alone in taking responsibility for my kids' education. I care a shit-load, and most of the parents I meet in school meetings seem to care a shit-load.
I agree with you completely. There are still some parents who actually give a shit. Such as you and me. I plan to do with my son the same thing that my father and grandfather did with me: instill a love of learning.

However, it's not parents such as us that I am talking about. How many parents stay at home and watch television for every one family that goes to parent-teacher meetings? My sister-in-law has taught at two different middle schools in the Pittsburgh area in the past few years. One of them, the P/T conference sign up sheet was filled to the brim. The other had hardly a name on it. And unfortunately, the latter was the school that actually had more children. I don't think we even need to discuss which school was in the better area of town. That's the worst part about it: those that need the most help from their parents are the ones that seem to be getting the least.

QUOTE
Not all have the resources or skills or even the knowledge to pass on to their kids, but it's not because they don't care.

Also true. But that's why I think it's important to have the programs in the schools. That way, whether the parents don't care, don't have resources, knowledge or time, it still gets taught.
Lord Stanley
QUOTE(bob_chong @ Sep 1 2008, 06:55 PM) *

Or…it's a good illustration of people walking the talk: they don't kill babies b/c of Down syndrome or b/c the child may be born at an "inconvenient" time.


Most of the talk anyway. I'm sure they talk a lot about abstinence until marriage too. Aside from that, I agree with you. This would certainly qualify as an inconvenient time if they were ever going to waver from their pro-life views.

QUOTE
Sex ed is pointless and every instructional minute spent on that is a minute wasted, regardless of its philosophical bent. Why do the schools have to do the parents' job?


Abstinence programs have definitely been proven to be pointless. Not just in this case.
Lord Stanley
QUOTE(Wilson @ Sep 1 2008, 06:56 PM) *

Do you know what the education policies of her school are?


The education policies of the girl's school…no. Maybe she was given proper sex ed and the rubber broke. wink.gif

The education policies that would fit within the mom's ideological framework are pretty obvious.
Lord Stanley
NY Times article about Palin's vetting process

"At the least, Republicans close to the campaign said it was increasingly apparent that Ms. Palin had been selected as Mr. McCain’s running mate with more haste than McCain advisers initially described.

Up until midweek last week, some 48 to 72 hours before Mr. McCain introduced Ms. Palin at a Friday rally in Dayton, Ohio, Mr. McCain was still holding out the hope that he could choose a good friend, Senator Joseph I. Lieberman, independent of Connecticut, a Republican close to the campaign said. Mr. McCain had also been interested in another favorite, former Gov. Tom Ridge of Pennsylvania.

But both men favor abortion rights, anathema to the Christian conservatives who make up a crucial base of the Republican Party. As word leaked out that Mr. McCain was seriously considering the men, the campaign was bombarded by outrage from influential conservatives who predicted an explosive floor fight at the convention and vowed rejection of Mr. Ridge or Mr. Lieberman by the delegates.


McCain may like to fashion himself as a maverick but it's pretty obvious who's still steering the GOP.
Doctor Love

Unfortunately the NY Times does not have a good track record of accurate reporting when it comes to John McCain, so what they have to say on it is not very relevant. And when I say unfortunately I mean it, I think it's a shame that so many of what were once legitimate sources of objective journalism have become increasingly partisan in recent years. It certainly does not serve the interest of Americans.
bob_chong
QUOTE

Abstinence programs have definitely been proven to be pointless.


Good thing you have data to back that up. [???]

Anyway, teen pregnancy has been on a steady decline for whatever reason for the past 20 years. It's gone down about 35% in that time. Link.

Lord Stanley
Check Wikipedia's abstinence-only education page. I know that entries on Wikipedia aren't always 100% accurate but there are enough legitimate links provided to back up the statement. Official statements from medical organizations as opposed to "research" conducted by right wing think tanks like the Heritage Foundation and the Family Research Council.

To clarify my earlier post, "pointless" may have been overstating the case. There is certainly value in educating children on the benefits of abstinence. Problems arise when it's the only option provided and misleading information is taught to emphasize that viewpoint.
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