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The Fée Verte Absinthe Forum - The Oldest, Largest, Most Authoritative Absinthe Forum. > Absinthe & Absinthiana > Absinthe in the News & in the Media
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pierreverte
http://www.bonappetit.com/magazine/2009/03/absinthe

maybe someone might comment about the photo in 'How to Drink Absinthe'? no-czechs3.gif
Doctor Love

Nouvelle Orléans
$110
With aggressive anise and dry orange-peel flavors, high alcohol content, and a long finish, this is for the serious absinthe lover—not surprising, considering it's from T.A. Breaux, godfather of the current absinthe renaissance.


This has nickname written all over it.
absinthist
It is "van Gogh" for fuck's sake!!!
dakini_painter
It's sad when magazines simply provide a few links, throw some meaningless text around the link, add stock bottle picture from manufacturer and call it a day.

I guess I'll now have to get a bottle of the Pernod just to demonstrate the "pleasantly bitter finish". frusty.gif
Steve
QUOTE(absinthist @ Feb 10 2009, 01:33 AM) *

It is "van Gogh" for fuck's sake!!!

That's what I thought, but didn't you pay attention to what Helfrich told me on Facebook:
QUOTE
When a Dutch surname is prefixed by an article or a preposition the prefix should be spelled with a capital if the first name and the initials are omitted, e.g. "Van Gogh", "Mr. Van Gogh" and "Vincent van Gogh."

so in this case "Van Gogh" would be correct, wouldn't it?
absinthist
QUOTE
maybe someone might comment about the photo in 'How to Drink Absinthe'?

Have just commented on everything.
absinthist
QUOTE(Spoon @ Feb 10 2009, 06:09 AM) *

so in this case "Van Gogh" would be correct, wouldn't it?

But is "your inner" equivalent to "Mr." in that case? Also, I am more than sure that if they used "Vincent" as a preceding word, it would be "Van Gogh", some people just do not want to learn, the journalists especially. Of course, I paid an attention, I have even sent you the correct pronunciation movie, do you remember :)
Steve
Yes, that was funny. But it's too hard for us 'mericans to say so we just say "Van Go".
Donnie Darko
Amazingly it's cheaper to buy Nouvelle Orleans from overseas than locally, though I'm not even aware of any place where one can buy it locally, so I guess it's of no consequence.

That's also wonderful that Bon Appetit is encouraging people to light alcohol on fire. Maybe I should spill some flaming absinthe on my shirt and sue them, because after all, they did tell me to light it on fire.
Provenance
I'm glad to know that absinthe is finally, indisputably dead.
Absomphe
QUOTE(absinthist @ Feb 10 2009, 06:22 AM) *

Van Gogh…the correct pronunciation


Too much Flem phlegm™.
Shabba53
QUOTE(absinthist @ Feb 10 2009, 09:10 AM) *

QUOTE
maybe someone might comment about the photo in 'How to Drink Absinthe'?

Have just commented on everything.

One point on reviews: There's absolutely nothing wrong with using terms like cocoa powder. You don't need to know the specific flavors that each herb imparts in an absinthe. Instead, the idea is to educate the consumer as much as possible and allow them to be able to create the flavors in their heads.

For example, when reviewing a Scotch, there are hundreds of flavors that are normally described: meringue, barnyard, plastic, lemon, hay, etc. They aren't actually IN the drink, that's just what the tastebuds pick up.

Click to view attachment
absinthist
I agree, but Scotch is not absinthe. Tell laymen, who hear about absinthe for the very first time that it tastes like cocoa and they will think it must be something like Sheridan's or similar liqueur. Once they buy, there is a possibility they get disappointed- "Heck! I have read a review that it had a mulled-spices taste, so I added it to spike my wine with and boiled it-Sir, it was awful!". Hence, they should be acknowledged of the real absinthe flavours, no matter what these at first might taste to them.

If you advertise your product, i.e. absinthe as having a wonderfully plastic almost Spandex-flavour with a lovely donkey piss colour and wet sock aroma, I am not sure anyone would buy it. If you explain that certain flavours which can be described the most primitive way to them are attributed to specific herbs, they might be interested in buying it; at least encouraged to do so.
sixela
QUOTE(absinthist @ Feb 10 2009, 03:22 PM) *

[But is "your inner" equivalent to "Mr." in that case?

Yes. If you don't use the first name (either in full or abbreviated as an initial), then it's Van Gogh. Vincent van Gogh's first name was Vincent, not "inner".

sixela
QUOTE(Spoon @ Feb 10 2009, 03:24 PM) *

Yes, that was funny. But it's too hard for us 'mericans to say so we just say "Van Go".


Our EMEA Vice President is called "Joop Ruijgrok". We always make fun of everyone but the twenty employees or so able to correctly pronounce his name.

In fact, most Californians fail to even understand we're talking about "him" when we use the correct pronunciation.

Shabba53
QUOTE(absinthist @ Feb 10 2009, 04:03 PM) *

Tell laymen, who hear about absinthe for the very first time that it tastes like cocoa and they will think it must be something like Sheridan's or similar liqueur.
But that's not what the article said. In the preface, it stated that absinthe has a distinctive anise flavor, so any further tasting notes are already inferring an anise flavor with the other notes on top of that.

Another point, if we're talking novices here, do you think they'd fair any better trying to understand if they mentioned different varietals of fennel or wormwood, or notes of coriander or melissa? I doubt it.

QUOTE
If you advertise your product, i.e. absinthe as having a wonderfully plastic almost Spandex-flavour with a lovely donkey piss colour and wet sock aroma, I am not sure anyone would buy it.
Nor would anyone buy a scotch with that description either, so this point is meaningless.
absinthist
I am not talking about different varietals, just differentiate between wormwood, anise, and fennel.

QUOTE
Nor would anyone buy a scotch with that description either, so this point is meaningless.

It was your point:
QUOTE
when reviewing a Scotch, there are hundreds of flavors that are normally described: meringue, barnyard, plastic, lemon, hay, etc.
And I would definitely not buy Scotch that is decribed as plastic, hay or such.

Shabba53
Um, there is a BIG difference between a mention of plastic or hay versus:

QUOTE
wonderfully plastic almost Spandex-flavour with a lovely donkey piss colour and wet sock aroma


If you'd pass up a Scotch that has the descriptions I mentioned, then you'd be passing up some very notable brands, such as Lagavulin, Ardbeg and Bruichladdich Octomore. In fact, many heavily peated scotches have a hint of plastic on the nose. Barnyard and hay are also both fairly common descriptors.
Provenance
Dead seagull is a more appropriate descriptor for some Islay whiskies whereas barnyard is commonly applied to fine sour beers.

QUOTE
Spectacular nose of farmyard funk, horse blanket, manure, damp rotting oak, tart fruits and sweet malts. The taste is not quite as impressive as the nose, but is still quite good.
scuto
QUOTE(Absomphe @ Feb 10 2009, 11:39 AM) *

QUOTE(absinthist @ Feb 10 2009, 06:22 AM) *

Van Gogh…the correct pronunciation


Too much Flem phlegm™.


Ha!

Though I think Scottish Gaelic, when gh dh or ch are next to broad vowels, could give it a run for its money. No Flem, tho'.
Leopold
QUOTE(Shabba53 @ Feb 10 2009, 08:10 PM) *

In fact, many heavily peated scotches have a hint of plastic on the nose.


Phenols.
absinthist
QUOTE(Shabba53 @ Feb 10 2009, 06:10 PM) *

In fact, many heavily peated scotches have a hint of plastic on the nose.

Why don't we just resort to peat when we smell and taste peat and to phenols when we smell and taste phenols?
The flavours have their particular names. Either whisky is drinkable or it is not-end of story, same goes for cognac. Of course, if on the nose you perceive glue aroma-it means the ethylacetate content is high and the distillate is from spoilt fruit, but this is the chemical part of product analysis not just the part of tasting it.

Scotch ISN'T absinthe and absinthe has its particular and specific flavours one should stick to-little palate's training and even the biggest novice will pin wormwood, anise, fennel in the absinthe down. Once they master it, there shall be not that much of a problem to track pontica, hyssop, or angelica.

Of course, there will be much to discover in the long run like the bold yet discrete floral aspect of Roman chamomile, lemony nuance of melissa (depending on its place) or the robust spiciness of coriander and so on and so forth, but it can be done without looking for unusual flavours which might only make one puke.
Alan
Both Shabba53 and absinthist are right.

Shabba's view is going to appeal to drinks professionals and those consumers who want to appreciate the full complexity of absinthes. In the past, I made presentations to bar staff and consumers around the world referring to cigar boxes, pepper and chocolate in cognac, and most people seem to find it fascinating. This is what today's bar staff want when they look at cognac, scotch, rum, wine etc. Absinthe has to fit into that.

For consumers whose interest in absinthe is more casual, of course some of the terms used above are going to be a turn-off.

Different audiences, different approaches.


Shabba53
Exactly. Since we're dealing with a 'gourmet' site, that's the type of tasting notes I'd expect. However, I do disagree with this statement:

QUOTE(absinthist @ Feb 11 2009, 03:58 AM) *

even the biggest novice will pin wormwood, anise, fennel in the absinthe down.

Most novices can't tell the difference between anise, fennel and licorice. Also, many people in the states don't even know what wormwood is. I don't think you realize how many times I've talked to people (including the people who interviewed me from CNN) who thought wormwood was this:

Click to view attachment

Most novices have no idea what wormwood smells or tastes like unless I explain it to them and/or show them what it looks like in the raw.
Absomphe
Agreed.

When introducing a novice to absinthe, I usually draw a parallel between the flavor of the wormwood, and that of the hops in beer, and then they have little trouble discerning the former.

Unless they drink nothing but American mass-produced lite beer, of course.
absinthist
Nice curcuma :)
QUOTE
Most novices can't tell the difference between anise, fennel and licorice

Thus, they should be shown each of them in raw/distilled/macerated form. Then, we can move on wormwood: hoppy beer vs. gruit vs. raw wormwood vs. distilled wormwood. No one has to be a natural-born gourmet, though, just like no one is born with a silver absinthe spoon in the mouth™
pierreverte
you really need to have more exposure to the public and journalists, maybe you could open a non-for-profit absinthe appreciation school?
I'm sure there would be 10's of people interested….
absinthist
Good idea, the education was always important part of my life evill.gif and I am a natural-born teacher wink.gif
pierreverte
go for it!

and does 'teacher' and 'preacher' translate to the same word in Polish? wink.gif
absinthist
Yup, although "preacher" is "kaznodzieja" in Polish, teacher is associated with being someone who is not only teaching the youth and the masses but preaching them as well, take Polish language teacher or History teacher for that matter. Moreover, every priest or nun that works in a school is considered a teacher as well, if the Religion classes might not be that great as they used to be when taught in private outside the school.

Teacher and preacher are examples of an authority in Poland, you might not approve what they say, but you won't say they are stupid and know next to nothing about what they preach/teach. Unlike journalists…
Shabba53
QUOTE(absinthist @ Feb 11 2009, 01:05 PM) *

Nice curcuma :)
QUOTE
Most novices can't tell the difference between anise, fennel and licorice

Thus, they should be shown each of them in raw/distilled/macerated form.

Yes. Let's offer free samples of each to go along with their internet bookmark to review sites and have samples in little baggies on the magazine stand. That works much better than just trying to describe flavors they might identify with.

Newsflash: Most people looking to try a drink for the first time don't want a 30 minute botany lesson beforehand.
Tibro
I'm inclined to agree. And even after that drink. Now, a fairly lewd and suggestive anatomy lesson is a different thing altogether.

Wait. Did I just summon the apocalypse? If that's the case, don't wait. Especially for the anatomy lesson.
absinthist
QUOTE
That works much better than just trying to describe flavors they might identify with.

Bingo! Hasn't it been done at Tales of the Cocktails where one could see, smell and taste the herbs?

IPB Image

IPB Image
Shabba53
Tits, you're being just a tad bit unrealistic. Using the TotC as an example of the entire country is a bit myopic. We're talking about trying to allow the layman to identify with the review. There will always be laymen.

The TotC is for cocktail and drink enthusiasts who are willing to buy tickets to view seminars and expositions. They buy tickets to get into the events.

I guess we can set up a subscription service on Bon Apetit where they can send herb samples before you read the reviews. Maybe we can get liquor stores to install vending machines with all of the different samples. Sounds like it just might work!

And why should absinthe be any different in its review descriptions than any other beverage? Scotch, Tequila, Rum, Beer, Wine, Bourbon, etc. All of them use descriptors like what I'd mentioned originally. Why should absinthe be reduced solely to the actual ingredients in its review?
sixela
Please don't call absinthist "Abby". If you insist on an abbreviation, his pet name is "Tits".
sixela
QUOTE(Shabba53 @ Feb 12 2009, 01:55 PM) *

Apetit

This isn't about simian mammae (and if you're using Windows, change the keyboard layout to "International US" for a few seconds to use ' as a dead key to form é.)
Shabba53
QUOTE(sixela @ Feb 12 2009, 08:22 AM) *

This isn't about simian mammae

Isn't it? Well then, I'm in the wrong conversation.
Tibro
QUOTE(sixela @ Feb 12 2009, 02:17 PM) *

Please don't call absinthist "Abby".

Even if you are fishing for someone to use the parallel construction on your name, it won't work. Even after that last lame reply. There are too many stunning alternatives with teeth.
Shabba53
I wasn't going for anything with teeth. I try to have civilized debates with friends, instead of trying to personally attack them.
Tibro
Um, sometimes you just don't get it, do you? I was referring to your name. Your attempt at cutesy familiarity with absinthist is grating for a different reason.
Absomphe
That's for sure.

He doesn't look anything like her, and she types much more intelligibly when plastered.
Shabba53
QUOTE(Tibro @ Feb 12 2009, 09:06 AM) *

I was referring to your name.

No shit. Go back to bed Tibro. You seem to have some sick need to insert yourself in any thread I comment on, just to make a nasty quip at me. It's pitiful.
Tibro
And here I thought I was being rather restrained in seconding another member's request. Good thing I'm not a bunny.
Shabba53
Use whatever excuse you want. It still shows the same way. Others have even noted it.
Tibro
At the risk of gauche, I think you're going to have change your custom member title again. I'm just not feeling it. May I suggest, "Insane bore"? Er, sorry, I meant "Wild pig." You know, to go with your signature line.
Shabba53
Better?
Tibro
Hmm. You may need to add a qualifier to your signature line. The exception to the rule.
absinthist

QUOTE
Maybe we can get liquor stores to install vending machines with all of the different samples. Sounds like it just might work!

And I was all my heart for all of it from the very beginning, so where is the disagreement?

QUOTE
And why should absinthe be any different in its review descriptions than any other beverage? Scotch, Tequila, Rum, Beer, Wine, Bourbon, etc. All of them use descriptors like what I'd mentioned originally.

Coz it is very different beverage than the others called in?

Scotch, Tequila, Rum, Bourbon are distilled beverages and do not undergo neither maceration nor colouration nor fining with certain roots; even their aging is different. Although their taste might be as complex as that of absinthe they are single-ingredient derived (tequila from agave, rum from sugar cane, etc, etc). Even if they are flavoured, the process of flavouring is not as complex as that of absinthe.

Wine and beer as products of fermentation and barely alcoholic unlike the aforementioned spirits fall off the comparison therewith.

pierreverte
kaznodzieja!
Provenance
Absinthe should have stayed illegal.
QUOTE
At the OM Bar and Chill Lounge at 392 Flagler Ave. in New Smyrna Beach….
Approaching Mardi Gras 2009, Elaine walked us through the process. “I take the absinthe and pour a shot over ice,” she said as she drizzled the light green fluid onto the rocks. “I then place a cube of sugar soaked in absinthe over the drink, light it on fire, ‘so’ - and slowly drip the ice water onto it, melting the sugar into the drink.” Within a minute or two, the milky green concoction was ready for consumption.

Um…no.
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