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Full Version: Makers of Edouard III Absinthe threaten Fee Verte with legal action.
The Fée Verte Absinthe Forum - The Oldest, Largest, Most Authoritative Absinthe Forum. > Absinthe & Absinthiana > General Absinthe Discussion
Oxygenee
The maker of Edouard III has PM'ed me, threatening legal action should we not delete posts critical of him, and close the relevant threads.

Herewith my reply:

QUOTE
There's nothing in the thread that I feel I as one of the admin should remove, and we as a matter of principle do not generally censor the forum, except in a limited number of extreme circumstances. This isn't one of them.

For what it's worth, my feeling is that you and your own partner have been extraordinarily ill considered in your postings, and it doesn't surprise me in the least that you have antagonized several of our most prominent and longstanding posters, most of whom have vastly more experience with absinthe than you appear to do.

We take threats of legal action such as you have just made extremely seriously. As a matter of policy in these circumstances we reserve the right to make the full contents of your message, and our reply, accessible in the public era of the forum.
Oxygenee
Please don't use this thread as a forum for gratuitous insults against Brasil, but feel free to debate the issues raised in his message, and in my reply. Brasil is himself very welcome to post here and expand on the reasons why he wants the thread closed, and why he has threatened the largest and oldest absinthe forum on the net with legal action. A forum, I would remind everybody, that in its 12 years of operation has never charged for membership, taken a paid ad, or made a cent of profit. This forum is run exclusively for, by and in the interests of its members.

I should also point out that the last two sentences above read better if accompanied by soft violin music.
Kirk
Is threatening legal action to protect profits an actionable event? I mean, it should be legal to sue but illegal to threaten to sue.
Is this the first time anyone threatened the forum with a law suit?
It seems like EIII is continuing down a fruitless path. I was not against tasting this absinthe until now. I would not recommend anyone deal with these guys, especially the distributors and retailers such as Astor and Catskill cellars. In light of the new paradigm, I would think retailers would be very wary of popular dissent.
Tibro
Isn't there a point of law that once you take yourself public you're fair game for what comes your way publicly? This is all in the public domain, including the video that was linked to. Discretion is always the better part of valor.
eric
Threats such as these are the kind of things that damage their credibility and could make people very hesitant to risk doing any kind of business with these guys.
Head_prosthesis
This is the part on Kitchen Nightmares where Gordon stops screaming and takes the restaurant owner to the amusement park for cotton candy.
Jaded Prole
I think those losers have even more to learn about business than they do about absinthe. There is certainly nothing here on which they have either grounds for a lawsuit or a right to gripe given their own bad behavior.
Oxygenee
QUOTE(Head_prosthesis @ Feb 22 2010, 12:34 AM) *

This is the part on Kitchen Nightmares where Gordon stops screaming and takes the restaurant owner to the amusement park for cotton candy.



Yes, my thoughts exactly.
Absomphe
Onacuz, despite the ostensible bad boy image, Gordon's a fluffer, not a fighter.
Steve
I'd like to know exactly which posts brasil considers to be slanderous. I don't see anything that could possibly be considered slander.
eric
QUOTE
Green Baron
QUOTE(Steve @ Feb 21 2010, 03:56 PM) *

I'd like to know exactly which posts brasil considers to be slanderous. I don't see anything that could possibly be considered slander.

I can't either. Not even when taking this into account (it might be considered more like threatening slander, I dunno)-
QUOTE(brasil @ Mar 10 2009, 08:06 PM) *

i assumed it was sarcasm and i was trying to just be nice and salvage the thread, but you know what? you and everyone else who gave me such a rude "welcome" on here can eat shit and die and go fuck yourselves a few times for good measure. i'll never do business with your overpriced company and i'll be sure tell anyone else in the industry what a big cock you are. the distillery we're working with also happens to be a farm, so we can grow our own fucking herbs thank you very much, and maybe we'll even sell the surplus and undercut your bullshit company.


But I have started to wonder if my own behavior on the forum of late reflects poorly on me. If so, I might have to threaten legal action against LFV. I'm also going to have to sue myself for slander just for good measure, since I take myself very seriously. But really, I'm just a nice person.
dakini_painter
Green Baron, I've just checked the scores you gave my absinthes in the LFV review section, and I can see that you were not nice enough to me. harhar.gif

But then again, I should be happy that you bothered to review them at all. LARS!.gif

Artemis
The link to the offending post seems to go to a picture of a man and a woman with some editing on the man. Is that the post?
sixela
QUOTE(Oxygenee @ Feb 21 2010, 08:00 PM) *

. Please have this type of slander removed from the forum

I hope (for him) he knows more about absinthe than about defamation (calling libel "slander" is a bad start).

QUOTE
This is not doing anyone any good and if legal action is possible to have this kind of post removed and the thread deleted and/or closed, we are prepared to take it.

Note the conditional clause.

QUOTE
but this is just not acceptable or decent.

For what it's worth, many forms of expression that are neither acceptable nor decent are protected, especially in the United States. There is no law shielding anyone from insults, only laws shielding everyone from defamation. And search though I may, I have a hard time finding any claim that could be construed as even potentially libellous. Of course, I'm not a lawyer.
Kirk
His post to me sounded like something I could sue him for, any lawyers here want to have some fun?
Green Baron
QUOTE(Artemis @ Feb 21 2010, 04:33 PM) *

The link to the offending post seems to go to a picture of a man and a woman with some editing on the man. Is that the post?

It's some weird post truncation that ends up getting copied. The first post of the thread has the right link.

@dp- It was a pleasure to review them. Sometimes it's tough to review stuff objectively, but I made an extra effort to score WW and MoL as neutrally as I could. Two days ago, I just had the last glass from Meadow of Love batch 09-2 bottle 10. It still easily lives up to the score I gave it.

The LTV sample you sent me on the other hand…well, it's just as gross as ever.
sixela
QUOTE(Kirk @ Feb 22 2010, 01:59 AM) *

His post to me sounded like something I could sue him for,


Which one? Which libellous claim exactly was being made? The bar is set very high for libel, you know: he has to have claimed something that is false, you have to show that he could not reasonably believe it to be true, and you have to show actual damage.

The latter part may be the hardest, because you'd have to find someone who actually took his word at face value instead of rolling on the floor laughing.

And even if you can, there are umpteen other defenses. To give the reverse example, if Brasil continues to behave like he does, he may well become incapable of further defamation, having utterly ruined his reputation himself.

Artemis
QUOTE
It's some weird post truncation that ends up getting copied. The first post of the thread has the right link.


The link in the first post is the one I was talking about. The link as it appears in Eric's quote doesn't work at all - it seems to be missing part of the path, which strangely shows up if you copy the link and paste it in a word pad. The board is behaving abnormally, it seems - when I use the "quote" button on a post, a quote shows up, but from a different post than the one I targeted. I'm just trying to figure out if it was that doctored picture that was construed as slander (or libel).
Green Baron
My bad Artemis, wasn't P'ing The FA. Just one more reason that I need to sue myself.

@sixer
I'm pretty sure Kirk was being facetious.

If not, that's my bad, I didn't mean to bait with that brasil quote. I just thought it was an interesting passage in light of the legal threats.
sixela
QUOTE(Green Baron @ Feb 22 2010, 02:48 AM) *

I'm pretty sure Kirk was being facetious.


So am I. But I'm very good at pretending not to know that if it suits me wink.gif.

QUOTE
i'll never do business with your overpriced company and i'll be sure tell anyone else in the industry what a big cock you are.


is not a libellous statement (but it's horribly bad grammar if he meant the products from the company were overpriced, and obviously the punctuation is also incredibly sloppy. There should be laws against this kind of language, but sadly,…)

"Overpriced" is not falsifiable (i.e. a matter of opinion), and so is a man's opinion of whether someone else is a big cock.
Patlow
…™
Donnie Darko
QUOTE(Oxygenee @ Feb 21 2010, 02:15 PM) *

Please don't use this thread as a forum for gratuitous insults against Brasil, but feel free to debate the issues raised in his message, and in my reply. Brasil is himself very welcome to post here and expand on the reasons why he wants the thread closed, and why he has threatened the largest and oldest absinthe forum on the net with legal action.


This whole thing is getting a bit surreal. Is David Lynch involved with his Absinthe roll-out or something? Or is Brasil's apparent desperate need for 3mg/day of Risperdal the driving factor here? How many people have been maligned here over the years, and how many of them have threatened to sue? Counting Brasil, I'm guessing one. We laid pretty hard into Le Tourment Vert and even they didn't threaten to sue.

For what it's worth my insulting observations about him probably were unnecessary, however close to the bull's eye they probably were. He could have his own thread here in which only he posted and all of our posts were censored and it would still be possible to see the smoldering train-wreck.

Somewhere in this vaudeville act of his I imagine there's a (possibly) interesting absinthe from a distillery with a good reputation (Tuthilltown), but good luck finding any substance worth evaluating buried in his PR landfill of legal threats, FUCK YOUS, and hilarious and unqualified quips like "one drop of thjone will kill you".

Oh well, at least I got my fill of wacky zany web-ertainment for a while.

As for debating the issues raised in his post and in Oxy's reply, I don't see much to debate about Oxy's astute reply. My advice to Brasil is that it's probably best not to see if a gun is loaded by looking down the barrel.
Donnie Darko
For some fun I just emailed a friend who is a lawyer and asked him about this silliness. He said most US lawyers won't touch a "libel" suit in this country unless the client is stinking rich and doesn't mind losing.
Kirk
QUOTE
The latter part may be the hardest, because you'd have to find someone who actually took his word at face value instead of rolling on the floor laughing.

And even if you can, there are umpteen other defenses. To give the reverse example, if Brasil continues to behave like he does, he may well become incapable of further defamation, having utterly ruined his reputation himself.

That's funny.
I'd forgot how elegant civil law can be.
Of course I was just having fun at Brasil's expense.
Nephrite
I love this forum… heart.gif
Shabba53
QUOTE(Donnie Darko @ Feb 21 2010, 10:10 PM) *
We laid pretty hard into Le Tourment Vert and even they didn't threaten to sue.

They might not have threatened you, but they certainly threatened the WS. Several times.
Oxygenee
Yes, well we're quiet genteel types here at FV, unlike you raving wildmen at the WS.
Shabba53
Ha!
Oxygenee
Rare early photo of Hiram:



Alan
Wait until someone's corporate lawyer discovers the Lounge. That WOULD be fun.
G&C
At least it's not populated with geldings.
Provenance
QUOTE(Oxygenee @ Feb 21 2010, 11:00 AM) *
There's nothing in the thread that I feel I as one of the admin should remove
***
we reserve the right to make the full contents of your message

I'm glad Oxy's got balz™
R3al Caravano
I didn't realize shit talking was illegal. Damn, I might be sued for all that I'm worth. Legal question: can someone sue you for a negative value?
R3al Caravano
I do not understand where he went wrong in his business plan.
He was going to crap out a 1,000 cases of absinthe, and sell them immediately with the marketing slogan “Hey C$%#sucker, drink my F&*%ing absinthe.”
Seems very sound to me.
Green Baron
QUOTE(G&C @ Feb 22 2010, 07:11 AM) *

At least it's not populated with Gelflings.


What does The Dark Crystal have to do with anything?
Tibro
QUOTE(Alan @ Feb 22 2010, 03:27 PM) *

Wait until someone's corporate lawyer discovers the Lounge. That WOULD be fun.

What sort of corporate concern do you mean? The Lounge rarely mentions absinthe.
R3al Caravano
They might have "anal rape" concerns. Maybe the connection lies in absinthe enemas.
Tibro
If you want to conduct yourself like a raving wildman might I suggest that you're posting in the wrong forum.
R3al Caravano
I'm just me; raving or not, wild or not, just me. I guess the more important question is did I say anything incorrect?
R3al Caravano
I find that you can't speak your mind and please everyone all the time, and it is ever harder to speak you mind while pleasuring yourself.
OCvertDe
No pun intended I'm sure.
speedle
No.
R3al Caravano
I'm quite surprised you read Wilde. Nothing you have ever said would imply that connection. Was that quote a pit stop in a sting of lame irony truncated and taken out of context? Once you understand what you are reading, you can use it in a more interesting manner.
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