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The Fée Verte Absinthe Forum - The Oldest, Largest, Most Authoritative Absinthe Forum. > Absinthe & Absinthiana > Vintage Absinthe
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Artemis
Click to view attachment Recently discovered.

I was asked about this - I have to confess I don't know anything about this product, but I seem to remember some discussion about it, possibly here, some years back. People with knowledge, please step up. I don't mean about the purchase of the bottle - I'm aware there is contention about that - I mean about this product.



Artemis
There is a thread about it at the Wormwood Society Forum titled "Found Bottle in Attic". There was some other liquor in the discovered cache, but as far as I know this was the only absinthe in it.
Shabba53
Correct, it was the only absinthe found in the cache. And apparently it is the only labelled bottle of Pernod White to surface so far. There was also some wine, a bottle of Kentucky Whiskey and a bottle of Scotch.
eric
I have always wondered if PF was re distilling spent coloring herbs to flavor the white absinthe.

It would be interesting to learn more about this product.

Shabba53
Here are a couple of other pics:

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Artemis
Thank you. It would be good to have better pictures, but what I posted was all I had.
Chris
I thought the color of the wax seal was interesting. As far as I know the seals on all the Pernod Fils verte bottles found to date have been green (is that correct?); it would make sense though if Pernod color coded the contents of the bottle with a corresponding wax color.
Stroller
A closer view of the label.



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Artemis
QUOTE
As far as I know the seals on all the Pernod Fils verte bottles found to date have been green (is that correct?)


Ted Breaux is pretty finickular about his tedious old Froggy French wax seals. I bet he would know. In fact, it would be good to have him join this discussion.
EdouardPerneau
perhaps the wax was white ? in the hey day

Provenance
It looks yellow, as opposed to yellowed or stained.
EdouardPerneau
the bottle looks newer than other bottle founded … kinda strange
Chris
I think Stoller said it looks more off white (aged?) in person… but I'll leave it to him to confirm if that is in fact the case.
Artemis
What other bottle? Someone said this is the only labeled bottle ever found. Was the other bottle one without a label?
Stroller
I'll post better pics tonight. I believe WS sent over an Advisory Board member last week to photograph the bottle for their records. They might be able to post better pics faster than I can.
Shabba53
I believe he might be talking about the PF Green bottles. Not sure though.

Molly indeed took more pics, but she hasn't posted them.
Artemis
The more pictures the better. I agree that the wax in that one photo looks yellow on purpose, rather than yellowed with age.
tabreaux
QUOTE(Artemis @ Mar 22 2010, 03:46 PM) *

Ted Breaux is pretty finickular about his tedious old Froggy French wax seals. I bet he would know. In fact, it would be good to have him join this discussion.


Calling Dr. Bombay ….. <poof!>

I've seen two PF White bottles in the flesh that I can remember. Actually, I want to say there's one on public display somewhere in FR/CH, but I can't recall exactly where. The other is a part of a private collection. I snapped a photo of one some time ago (e.g. 2003), but I don't have that archive with me at the moment. The particular color wax is possibly a deliberate touch to further differentiate it from the ubiquitous green version.

Pernod White is more than likely just PF sans coloration. Actually, there are bottles that are labeled "green" in English as well, presumably to differentiate the two during the time they were sold side by side. The English verbiage implies they may have been intended for Anglo-American markets, but that's just a guess. If so, it does seem interesting that the two bottles I've seen never left FR/CH. I doubt the "white" ever reached any significant degree of popularity, which accounts for its rarity.

Anyway, good find.
Artemis
Thanks, Ted. Carry on with your tedious waxing, and lets see some of that PF 1901 soon.
Stroller
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Stroller
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Provenance
Impressive. Do you have any close-ups of the seal?

On another note, does anyone know why Pernod Fils chose to use the word White instead of blanche for the English-speaking market? Other French terms such as Qualité Supérieure were not translated, why blanche (and verte)?
Stroller
I can post some tonight.
speedle
So, what every happened to this bottle, i.e. is it sold? I recall a post over on WS that it was sold.
Aggelos
What a post. Yup, sold to an undisclosed wandering private collector
Absomphe
Earth to Speedle bye1.gif
Tibro
Brilliant.
Steve
Seriously, dude…
speedle
Oh, for crissakes, I posted here before I got a chance to read the whole sordid saga over at WS. Excuuuuuse me! wink.gif

Ted:
"Calling Dr. Bombay ….. <poof!>"

Ha!

Ok, going back to bed now.
Artemis
I don't claim to know, but I assume that the words "green" and "white" were translated on the label because those are the words that distinguish the only difference in the two products and inform the customer what he's getting. Pernod is Pernod in any language, ditto for the names of the towns, and extrait d'absinthe and qualite superieure are close enough to the English words that people would understand those. Also, it may have to do with their trademark - not messing with the label too much so as to retain whatever was registered.
dakini_painter
So, gonna post some hot louche action pics?

And why not send some to Ted to analyze so we can know if it really is PF Green sans coloring, rather than having that be speculation/hypothesis/educated guess.
Stroller
I'm interested in finding out information about the PFW at this point.
Green Baron
Understandable. The information I'm most curious about is: how does it taste to the average wandering absinthe collector?
EdouardPerneau
QUOTE(Stroller @ Mar 23 2010, 09:14 PM) *

I'm interested in finding out information about the PFW at this point.



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so according to the PF book of 1905 the only herbs that goes in the blanche are : wormwood ,fennel,anise, melissa
Absomphe
That makes perfect sense, since there were only six herbs added to the verte.
Stroller
Not a grate photo, it looks like some of the seal came off after the WS took photos for their files. Pieces of the seal were in the bottom of the bag when I unwrapped it.

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Provenance
What's your take, do you think it was originally white, yellow, or can you not tell?
Stroller
Light yellow. I had thought an off-white to begin with but looking at where the seal recently broke off changed my mind.
Artemis
I think Eric's question was based upon it being written in some old texts that the used plants left in the colorator would be redistilled to capture the alcohol they held. So, this alcohol would be green, and scented with not only the base herbs, but the coloring herbs. After redistillation, it would be clear again, but now scented with six or more herbs, and probably fortified with an additional charge of fresh base herbs. So, what to do with that runoff? Left alone, it's now a white absinthe, but with six or more flavors rather than just three, and all from a maceration - a super white, as it were. Colored again, it's now a super green. This chain could build continuously, or, was any of this clear (white) super runoff cut out at some point and bottled as white? There are other possibilities, including that they really didn't reuse the herbs in the colorator, and that the white product used more herbs than just the holy trinity, despite what the old texts say. Certainly, clear absinthes were made by some distillers with nine or more herbs. If this one has just three it would be an interesting taste experience for sure, and prove what I (and others I'm sure) already know - that only three herbs are needed to make absinthe, and the rest are icing on the cake (or in some cases, they mask the fact that the distiller didn't know what he was doing with the basic three - you have to walk before you can run).
Donnie Darko
It's amazing what can be done with just a few herbs, so I can imagine Pernod White to be extra-amazing given the makers. I thought I remembered reading somewhere that Blanchette only used 3-4 herbs, and back when it used the Pontarlier wormwood it had a really dynamic and interesting taste. Segarra meanwhile only uses two herbs, just anise and wormwood, and it's not a bad absinthe.
Stroller
If they reused coloring herbs, I'm not sure they would make that part of the process public. I never thought about it until Eric mentioned it.
Artemis
I thought about Segarra and considered saying only two herbs, but I can't be sure since Segarra has that woody barrel nuance that I really don't like, and the herbs hide under it. I prefer grain alcohol over grape for the same reason.
EdouardPerneau
might use the recycled herbs or might not , close future will tells us
Stroller
A thread at WS was brought to my attention a few days ago which contained a fair amount of speculation regarding how I purchased the bottle of PF White. I say speculation because to date I’ve not disclosed the purchase price with either Shabba or Hiram and both were told point blank by the seller of the PF White via email that if they wanted to know the purchase price they could contact me. I don’t recall either character contacting me. If they want to pretend they know what I paid I could care less but when Shabba posts emails making it look like I paid $1,000.00 for the bottle when he knows that offer was made by JM Franc I decided to chime in. The Seller disclosed to Shabba via email that JM Franc made the $1,000.00 offer as well as another offer from a highly respected member of Fee Verte. Ultimately I purchased the bottle from the seller after meeting and spending a few hours discussing and drinking Absinthe.

Shabba guessed he could sell samples of the PF white for between $200-$250 per sample. The size of the sample was not discussed but Shabba seemed to have trouble figuring out how much was in the bottle based on the photos turned to Hiram for assistance with this difficult undertaking. Hiram determined there was about 25 ounces in the bottle. Shabba did not offer to purchase the PF White upfront but instead wanted to the seller to ship the bottle to him and he would pay the seller after the samples were sold. The seller was concerned about the contents of the bottle and what would happen if the Absinthe was bad. Shabba informed her that due to the high alcohol content that Absinthe ages well and that he had several dozen absinthe brands from late 1800’s to early 1900’s and all of them aged gracefully. I can’t begin to imagine having a collection of samples from several dozen absinthe brands. Impressive.

In the end Shabba blew the deal when he didn’t offer to buy the bottle upfront for a set amount and wire the money to the Seller. Another member of WS confirmed the authenticity of the bottle when she was sent to take photos for WS documentation.

It would have been interesting to see how things would have played out if the seller had shipped the bottle to Shabba and the Absinthe didn’t taste good. Would Shabba have disclosed that to WS members? Would he have adjusted the price down and explained he had to look out for the best interests of WS and had to disclose the Absinthe tasted bad? Or would Shabba have represented the best interests of the seller and sold the samples for the highest possible price to WS members even if the samples tasted bad?

I contacted the seller March 15, 2010, setup a meeting with the seller March 17th and purchased the bottle March 18th.

The seller was happy, I was happy and Shabba had what amounted to a tantrum via email throwing out that he would have given the seller $7,500.00 or more for the bottle which made the seller laugh.

As for the price, it was substantially more that the $1,000.00 lowball offer and less than Shabba’s panicked $7,500.00 offer after I had already purchased the bottle.

I have the emails but decided not to follow Shabba’s example and publish them in public.
Tibro
You gotta admit, he still looks a winner.

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Kirk
Insulted my eyeballs seeing someone like you being painted by the likes of him. He's not even a good story teller. A posing, arrogant, hot air filled bag of dicks. A life size sculpture in lard, begging for the fry pan.
Artemis
QUOTE
Look good and let the world know just who you really are

Veidt ...
Conrad Veidt?
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Tibro
I dunno. What do you think?
QUOTE
I wish, naturally to prevent the possibility that someone may write an accidental, superficial, incomplete and perhaps untrue picture of me.
Conrad Veidt

Jack Batemaster
QUOTE(Tbreaux @ Aug 19 2012, 01:22 PM) *

You gotta admit, he still looks a winner.


um, wiener ou weiner
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