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The Fée Verte Absinthe Forum - The Oldest, Largest, Most Authoritative Absinthe Forum. > The Monkey Hole > The Cellar
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mgs
There is a US made cachaça of very good quality, Leblon, the name of a famous beach in Rio de Janeiro…. Look at the link here Leblon - Cachaça



saúde !

- Marcelo groupwave reversed.gif
Shabba53
QUOTE(mgs @ Apr 5 2010, 06:04 PM) *

There is a US made cachaça

Nope. Made in Brazil.
Shabba53
Looks like we can park the cachaça discussion here, since there's already a thread for it.

So, Marcelo, what are your favorite brands?

Artemis
Sugar cane is good. Cane sugar is good. I had never heard of this stuff before Marcelo brought it up.

It seems like it might be a bottle of headache (congeners). Is it better or worse or the same as rum in that respect?
Shabba53
My experience is that it's been about the same, but it really depends on the quality as well.
Jaded Prole
I prefer dark rums.
Artemis
So did I, but there's something appealing about the cachaça. I used to never get a headache from absinthe.
Shabba53
QUOTE(Jaded Prole @ Apr 22 2010, 07:12 PM) *

I prefer dark rums.

As do I, but dark rum definitely doesn't work very well in a caiparinha.
mgs
Hello Friends :

you know why you prefer dark rums ? Because the cachaça that comes to US (and also in France) is :shit: (hope this works).

They are different…. I also like dark rums…. but they are different.

In Brazil most of the industrialized brands are really not amazing to be frank, and only those come to US or to Europe. So you can probably find brands like 51, Pirassununga, Ypioca, or maybe Velho Barreiro. All of those boozes in Brazil are CHEAP cachaça, and the only one from this list that I can still accept is the Ypioca - Import, which has layers of thin wood around the bottle…

In Brazil the good cachaça is actually purchased directly on distilleries or from bars (restaurants) that buy in bulk and sell for customers who are friends.

Most of the good cachaça is made only in the states of São Paulo and Minas Gerais. Although I am from São Paulo, I have to admit that the cachaça from Minas Gerais is WAY BETTER…. so if you go to Brazil, or if someone who you know is coming from Brazil as for a "cachaça mineira" (which means that is made in the state of Minas Gerais).

There are basically two types : the clear, and the dark. The clear is best for caipirinha, because it does not add any extra flavor, only the sugar cane. The dark one is supposed to be aged and matured in oak barrels, and it has a taste towards of a thin brandy. That is good to drink straight, no caipirinha with the dark cachaça.

When I was in College I used to travel to cities outside São Paulo with my big old car during the weekends to buy gallons and gallons of cachaça in distilleries, and I used to resell that to the local bars (pubs) close to my university….. It was a way for me to make some money as a student….. and it was fun, because I visited very small cities with wonderful distilleries.

So the reality is this : GOOD cachaça is made by small distributors in Brazil (and we have thousands)…. the industrialized cachaça is really not good quality, and I never found good cachaça anywhere that I lived in US or in France.

and the best cachaça that I drank EVER in my life is this one

Cachaça with quality of a whisky

unfortunately the link above is in Portuguese. But, this cachaça is made by the Agricultural School of the University of São Paulo in the city of Piracicaba. They have a small production, because they are a school, and not a business, but they got international prizes for this cachaça…. When I drink this one (I am fortunate to still have half a bottle in my house) it is better that a cognac for me…. I just drink straight, no ice…. it is so good that I will never make a caipirinha with this one….

even though people usually say that "cachaça is rum" … that is not true…. is like saying that cognac is armagnac….

Saúde !

- Marcelo

PS: and as you probably know, cars in Brazil are powered by Ethanol….. so our cars have a smell in the pipe tail : same as cachaça….. we even have some bumper stickers "Car and Driver Powered by Alcohol"




Wild Bill Turkey
QUOTE(mgs @ Apr 22 2010, 06:53 PM) *

even though people usually say that "cachaça is rum" … that is not true…. is like saying that cognac is armagnac….

I'd have to disagree and say that I think of cachaça as a regional style of rum, and as such the analogy is more like saying armagnac is a variety of cognac, which is also not quite correct, but isn't far off. The definitions I've read about why cachaça and rhum agricole aren't essentially the same never seemed very clear to me.

I work in a rum bar, and we serve the Ypioca, as well as Sagatiba, both the velha and the white pura. The white Sagatiba makes a very flavorful caipirinha, and the velha gets used in a wide variety of drinks which call for gold agricoles. I think the Sagatiba velha is delicious. I don't know where in Brazil it is distilled. Have you tried it?
mgs
Well….. of course I don't consider myself an expert in drinks and beverages, and maybe a cachaça can be considered as a regional rum as you say….. but it tastes completely different. This past Saturday I ordered a caipirinha in a jazz bar in Denver, it was made of rum, and I hated it….

I can drink a rum, as a rum… but when I drink cachaça straight, the end of the taste should remind me sugar cane…. anyway….. I also don't think that a 0.5% milk is milk, even though it is considered milk…. ;-)

I heard of Sagatiba, but never tried. I saw in the free shop when I left São Paulo last January…. but in the free shop a bottle of cachaça is 40 - 50 dollars, while in Brazil we can buy that for less than 10 dollars, so I usually do not buy cachaça in duty free shops.

I searched on the Internet about Sagatiba, there is a good website in English
sagatiba webpage

I looked for the address there and did not find… I searched on LinkedIN and they have a profile, and the address for the "headquarters" is Av. Brig. Faria Lima, 1485, torre norte, 10o andar. São Paulo, SP.

Sp, I suspect that if the business headquarters is in the city of São Paulo, the distillery must be somewhere in the state of São Paulo. São Paulo has sugar cane everywhere because of the alcohol production for cars, and usually the distilleries are in small cities in the interior of the state…

cheers,

- Marcelo
Tibro
QUOTE(Artemis @ Apr 22 2010, 09:50 PM) *

I had never heard of this stuff

Doing a quick search I came across a topic line that referred to it as well known among yuppies and lushes.

QUOTE(Wild Bill Turkey @ Apr 23 2010, 05:51 AM) *
The definitions I've read about why cachaça and rhum agricole aren't essentially the same never seemed very clear to me.

After a brief look I didn't come up with anything substantial but I'm inclined to believe that there are probably significant differences in how the mashes are handled for each of these. I'm guessing, but that would make the most sense to me. It may be just a dunderheaded way of looking at it though, I don't know.
absinthist
These are available in Poland, which ones are the most worth buying, Marcelo:

http://www.sklep-ballantines.pl/sklep/inde…e,id_gr,48.html

The names: 51, Optimum, Canario and Pitu. I have not had none of each, so please enlighten on the very subject.
mgs
now you made me curious…… I always considered that the taste of both cachaça vs. rum are different but never bothered why…. but since there are so many "Booze Ph.D.s" here I decided to look a little bit at least over the internet on Portuguese (Brazilian) sites….

so…. someone wrote in a brazilian discussion list that :

A cachaça é feita a partir do caldo da cana fermentado e destilado.
O rum é feito do melaço da cana: o caldo é fervido até engrossar e só então é fermentado e destilado.
Em síntese, um é feito de cana crua; o outro de cana cozida…


which means that the cachaça is made of the juice of sugar cane that was fermented and distilled (pretty much like alcohol for cars, since I have seen this process for cars).

then the person says that the rum is made of the "melaço" of sugar cane, the juice is brought to boiling point until it thickens and then it is fermented and distilled…

so the conclusion there is that the cachaça is made of raw sugar cane and the rum is made of cooked sugar cane…

now my own observation : when the cachaça is GOOD it smells like sugar cane plantation, and it also smells like cars in Brazil…. and has a similar smell of raw sugar when it cames out of the sugar plant…..

but, rum smells like rum…. (gosh this could be a thesis)

a bientôt….

- Marcelo

mgs
QUOTE(absinthist @ Apr 23 2010, 01:06 AM) *

These are available in Poland, which ones are the most worth buying, Marcelo:
http://www.sklep-ballantines.pl/sklep/inde…e,id_gr,48.html


51 is the most popular cachaça in Brazil, because it is the most cheap with still some quality, but I don't like it. There are many jokes about 51, about being bad, about being cheap, about being available for poor and rich…… I particularlly don't drink 51 straight… it can be used for caipirinhas in big parties when you don't want to expend money in better cachaça…

51 sponsors soccer games, and everyone sees "51" on TV screens in Brazil…. in addition they use beautiful women in their advertisements….

Pitu is better, for sure, not the best cachaça that you can find in Brazil, but I like it better than 51. If you find Pitu or Ypioca they are about the same quality.

Optimum and Canario I don't know… never heard of them… so I cannot make a judgement…

Because caipirinha is sweet, we can easily get drunk……. but a good cachaça is the one that does nbot give you headache with a reasonable drinking (of course if you get a whole bottle, and I already had a bottle in my life a few times, next day is an Advil day..).

I remember I used to go to the ocean with a boat to fish with my father, uncle and cousins… we stayed the whole night fishing and drinking cachaça….. telling bad jokes…….talking about soccer and women…. and sometimes catching a fish…..

- Marcelo



absinthist
Just like fishing in Poland or Russia…
Shabba53
So, have you tried Havana or Mae De Ouro? How do they compare to your favorites?

QUOTE
so the conclusion there is that the cachaça is made of raw sugar cane and the rum is made of cooked sugar cane…

Rhum Agricole is made using fresh sugar cane juice rather than molasses as its starting point.

So Cachaça is indeed similar to how a Rhum Agricole is made. Correct?


mgs
well….. I have no idea of what is a rhum agricole !!!! Hope to try sometime………… call me.gif when you have some…………..

saúde !

- Marcelo

PS: I will try Havana (even though this name looks more a Cuban rum) or Mãe de Ouro (that looks Brazilian, it means "Mother of Gold"….. but never saw them……… I asked a friend who tried the Sagatiba and he told me that is a very good one……..
absinthist
I have spotted this today, what can you tell about that stuff? Is that worth buying?
mgs
I took a look a the information on this "Negra Fulô"…. the name tells me the origin of this cachaça is probably the Northeast of Brazil (states of Bahia, Alagoas or Pernambuco)…. they also have sugar cane plantations there and some production of cachaça… However, the reviews in the website are in a language that I cannot understand…

I found another website for this product, with an artesanal clay bottle

other website for Nega Fulô

I never tried this one….. I have to taste one to see if I like, and of course that will be biased in my own taste, but I would say that it seems that this product you found has good quality…..

tell us what you think….. drink a little bit straight, and then prepare a caipirinha….

saúde,

- Marcelo
mgs
Now I want to talk about something that people do not realize when making caipirinha the type of the lime.

In Brazil we have many types of limes, and the lime that is best for caipirinha is called in Portuguese by

limão galego

The "limão galego" (Citrus aurantifolia), of Indian origin, is a variant of the common lime (Citrus limonum). The tree is very simliar, but the fruit (limão galego) is not so acid, and the taste is a between "limão" (lime) and "lima" (in Brazil there is a fruit called lima, which is not a lime, not an orange and is between….

So, the limão galego is between a regular lime and the "brazilian lima" (the scientific name for lima is Citrus Limetta).

so….. the RIGHT lime for caipirinha is limão galego (Citrus aurantifolia)

however, I NEVER found it in USA….

- Marcelo
absinthist
I like your approach to quality, man. Finally, someone who had guts to define "caipirinha"
Provenance
C. aurantifolia is widely available in the US. It is commonly called a "key lime."
mgs
today someone told me about the "key lime"…. it has been 10 years that I live in Colorado, close to Denver, but I never found a lime that looked like the one I was talking about…. I will go to a local store called Whole Foods and ask for "key limes"…

so…. for caipirinha use "key lime" or "limão galego" in Portuguese…

cheers,

- Marcelo

PS: I may be still be learning absinthe, but in my humble opinion I believe I understand cachaça and caipirinhas….. hula-1.gif hula-3.gif
Head_prosthesis
QUOTE(mgs @ Apr 26 2010, 09:05 PM) *

well….. I have no idea of what is a rhum agricole !!!!



I love it. I just wish (like Absinthe) I could afford the shipping to fucking buy it.
http://www.rumrunners.co.uk/acatalog/damoiseau.html

Shabba53
There are some very nice ones available in the states now.
mgs
thanks for the hints ! just got key limes tonight……. first time that I buy "limão galego" here….

cheers…….

- Marcelo
mgs
[quote name='Shabba53' date='Apr 23 2010, 05:27 AM' post='179677'
So Cachaça is indeed similar to how a Rhum Agricole is made. Correct?
[/quote]

[quote]
http://www.rumrunners.co.uk/acatalog/damoiseau.html
[/quote]

well…. sorry to bring the discussion again… but I read with attention the descriptions of rhum agricole at the website above and now I am more convinced that it IS NOT same as cachaça.

Those booze have fruits, caramel, all sorts of added stuff…… ok… that is rhum agricole….. it is NOT cachaça.

cachaça is a very simple distilled of raw juice of crushed sugar cane, it is impossible to be more simple than that… there is no added stuff at all…….

One day I will try this rhum agricole, but for sure I will not try to compare to cachaça… it is simply another booze, for sure…

Maybe you can say that rhum agricole is also from raw uncooked juice of sugar cane…. ok…. but they add all those spices, fruits, caramels and too much stuff……

it is like saying that beer of rice is beer….. (Samurai)…. it tastes good, you can call it beer, but it tastes different…. so it is a different booze…

- Marcelo
Tibro
QUOTE(mgs @ Apr 28 2010, 09:38 AM) *

Those booze have fruits, caramel, all sorts of added stuff……

Nothing on that page says anything about these substances being added to the rhum agricole advertised there. What it says is that the rhum agricole on that page is made from fermented and distilled sugar cane juice with the implication that these different flavor notes can be found in the finished distillate. Those flavors result from the canes and how they're processed to release the juice, from the yeast and particular fermentation step, as result of the exact cuts made by the distiller and/or subsequent aging, particularly in wood barrels. The references are to flavors, not actual additives.
Shabba53
Can't explain it much better than that.
Tibro
Keep you on your knees and can you do a fine job lapping up my cane juice, big guy. Good work.
Provenance
QUOTE(mgs @ Apr 27 2010, 02:45 PM) *
will go to a local store called Whole Foods Paycheck

Shabba53
QUOTE(Tibro @ Apr 28 2010, 07:35 AM) *

Keep you on your knees and can you do a fine job lapping up my cane juice, big guy.

You really do have some homoerotic fantasy thing going on with me, don't you?

Not that there's anything wrong with that…

In either case, just because you're a douche doesn't mean I won't agree with you when you make a valid point.
Tibro
We're talking about spirits made from sugar cane juice. If I spill my juice I just suspect you're the kind of guy who wonders what that's going to do to the flavor profile. You know, that connoisseur thing you cultivate.
Shabba53
Issues…
Tibro
QUOTE(Shabba53 @ Apr 28 2010, 03:26 PM) *

Issues…

You said it.

And tissues, too, I hope, to keep your big-girl frock dry.

Yep and yep.
Shabba53
I'm amazed that I'm going to have to do the same thing to you as the DayCare people say should be done to toddlers. Stop giving you the attention you seem to so desperately crave and try to garner through outbursts.

Should I give you a timeout too? Give you a little red chair and sit you in a corner and talk to you about using gentle hands?

Sorry fella. /ignore for you.
G&C
But the thing is,
YOU DON"T!


That's what makes it so GOD DAMNED ENTERTAINING!
Shabba53
Maybe you should go back and look throughout history. I've ignored more than I've responded to. Just like at TARN.

Sadly, what he doesn't realize is that he's not in control of the situation. His show only continues when I want it to. When I don't, he fades away. If I don't respond to his post, no one does. He's ignored. He rarely posts anything of value except the entertainment I allow him to propagate when I feel like being entertained.

I'm most certainly the topper in this relationship. wink.gif
Tibro
Yeah, you're the topper, alright. Prolly grew the beard so's you could say that. Get more cock action up top and less in the rear. Get me to jam it in that sweet pussy-mouth of yours.

Shitbag, all I have to do is pull my zipper down and you come running for me. It really is entertaining getting you going. But you need to heel now, boy. I've had my jollies.
Shabba53
*crickets*

I like how you just tried to turn it around to make it seem like it's you who's quitting, AFTER my point.

That's OK Tibro, I'll let you think you're saving face. Scoot along now.
G&C
Yet you continue to respond…
Shabba53
Oh come on. A couple of posts to wind it down? I think you're trying to egg it on because you're one of the only people who enjoy it. I think most people are quite bored.
G&C
Wind it down my ass.
Walking away is ignoring. Winding it down is not.

Or is it just having the last word that matters?
Tibro
No fucking way. The last word's mine and if doesn't wanna play, then fine, I'm taking it home and no one can play. So there.
Stroller
Shabba?

IPB Image

Shabba53
If you knew how little emotion I have about anything typed in a forum, you'd realize how ridiculous that notion is.

I don't get riled up by posturing. Waste of time and energy. I only respond when I'm in the mood for a show, and even then it's with amusement, not frustration or anger.

I find it even more amusing when you all think that someone like Tibro could actually get under my skin. You woefully underestimate me.



So anyway, to bring it back on topic, I'm going to do a bit of a flight with some rhum agricole and some cachaca to compare and contrast. Looking forward to it!
Grim
mgs - Does any small-scale, sugar-cane farming still go on in Brazil? How about near where you frequent?
Artemis
Come to Louisiana and I'll let you see sugar cane up close and personal. Wear a long-sleeved shirt - the leaves cut like razors. I'll even loan you a cane knife so you can fend off the Zombie3.gif
mgs
….. coming back to the topic of cachaça:

OK, you make me curious to try rhum agricole, as I am curious to try Fenny for example…

but my cachaça does not have any added flavors…… if it has added flavors it is not cachaça, called it distilled of sugar cane, please….. you can come with all the technicalities, but a scrambled egg is NOT an omelet.

other names for cachaça in Brazil : pinga, aguardente, água que passarinho não bebe, caninha….

Pinga is a very common and also good name in Brazil. However, "pinga" in Cuba means what us fellows carry between the legs.

There is a question above about sugar cane plantantions in Brazil…. they are no longer small, everything is huge. That sugar cane gives alcohol to power brazilian cars (more than 90% of brazilian fleet is alcohol powered engine).

Cheers,

- Marcelo

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