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The Fée Verte Absinthe Forum - The Oldest, Largest, Most Authoritative Absinthe Forum. > Absinthe & Absinthiana > Dr Magnan's Lab
DeLo
Hi to all,I'm new in this forum so I hope I post in the correct place…now the funny thing….I want to make my last oral test at the high school speaking about absinthe because I make chemistry school and I can also speak about O. Wilde, Baudlaire,Picasso ecc…and I have also the possibility to make distillation so I'm searching for a sort of recipe of the ingredients and a sort of guide to make absitnhe (for get school tester drunk harhar.gif ) …so i think to you!Thank you for your advise..sorry for my bad english
Cheers!!! abs-cheers.gif
Stroller
You might want to take a look at this section.
EdouardPerneau
My advice get herbs there Absinthe Herbs
dakini_painter
Realistically, grappa is going to be much easier for you. Plenty of ingredients readily at hand where you live, and you get all the extra science of the yeast and fermentation, plus impact of aging on wood. I think there's so much information that you'll be able to stay busy all the way through college.

Maybe even better than college would be finding a small vineyard where the old folks cannot tend it so well anymore and could use some young hands willing to learn the old ways.

Good luck with your project! abs-cheers.gif
Provenance
Many people don't appreciate grappa. Pity.
G&C
Here I was wondering if anyone still drank it.
absinthist
you misspelled an "excellent grappa".
DeLo
Thank you for your hint about grappa but i want bring absinthe because is more original and I can speak for organic chemistry about tujone making a bit of information-against….I want to give thanks to Stroller because this guide is very complete..I hope I can take good suggestions…did you have make one of this distillation?what is the one with the better for you?About Edouard I hope my organic's teacher can found herbe because they are quite expensive harhar.gif …thank you if you have other suggestions please write here! Cheers!!! abs-cheers.gif
Tibro
It's useful to remember that home-distilling, as a personal hobby, without a license, is an unlawful activity in most countries of the world. And information available on the open forum therefore would only be theoretical. Unless it came from one of those legal commercial ventures. But they tend to be a little secretive, if not outright misleading, about some of the processes and such. It never hurts to ask but no one here wants to see anyone getting into trouble.

The grappa idea maybe give you leads that you'd find useful though.
dakini_painter
I'm sure grappa is interesting chemically. Here's some links to journal articles.

Batch distillation of grappa: effect of the recycling operation
Carla Da Porto*, Andrea Natolino & Deborha De Corti
Dipartimento di Scienze degli Alimenti, Università di Udine, via Marangoni 97, 33100 Udine, Italy
*Correspondent: E-mail: carla.daporto@uniud.it
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal…=1&SRETRY=0

A study on the composition of distillates obtained from smoked marc
Carla Da Porto, , Sabrina Moret and Susi Soldera
Dipartimento di Scienze degli Alimenti, University of Udine, Via Marangoni 97, I-33100 Udine, Italy
Received 19 July 2005; revised 8 November 2005; accepted 9 November 2005. Available online 20 December 2005.
Abstract
Fermented marc is the traditional raw material of grappa. The effects of a controlled smoking process applied to fermented marc for 120, 240 and 460 min on the composition of the corresponding distillates (spirits at ca. 40%, v/v ethanol) were studied. The smoked marc samples were distilled using a pilot plant and the distillates collected by volume and analysed. Longer was the exposition of the marc samples to the smoking process higher resulted the reduction of ethanol, higher alcohols and ethyl esters. Instead, the volatile phenols and the polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) increased with the extended of smoking time. Good correlations between the time of smoking and the concentrations of higher alcohols and PAHs have been found. In relation to the content of benzo(a)pyrene, it must be noticed that it was detected always in concentrations which did not exceed the limit of 0.03 μg kg−1.

Composition of some commercial grappas (grape marc spirit): the anomalous presence of 1,1-diethoxy-3-methylbutane: a case study
Francesca Masino1, Giuseppe Montevecchi(1), Claudio Riponi(2) and Andrea Antonelli(1)

(1) Dipartimento di Scienze Agrarie e degli Alimenti, via Amendola 2, 42100 Reggio Emilia, Italy
(2) Dipartimento di Scienze degli Alimenti, viale Fanin 44, 40127 Bologna, Italy

Abstract A GC-MS study of the composition of nine different grappas (Italian grape marc spirit) was carried out. High-weight alcohols showed the greatest variations, while the lower congener concentrations generally were more uniform. Particularly interesting is the presence of 1,1-diethoxy-3-methylbutane (DMB), never detected before in grappa. DMB was present in all samples, ranging from 0.8 up to 30.6 mg L−1. This latter concentration was the highest detected in an alcoholic beverage so far. A discussion on the other volatile congeners was also reported. Principal component analysis was applied to the data and explained >80% of the whole variability. Most grappas are grouped in a single cluster, while the other samples are completely separated. DMB, ethyl acetate, ethyl lactate, and n-butanol are some examples of constituent able to differentiate the tested products.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/87236w4631554115/

Here's a fun little site.
http://grappaplurus.blogspot.com/2010/01/dicovery-101.html


A little research shows that there are 300 congeners in grappa. You'll make your instructor's head spin.
Provenance
Sounds like DP is getting ready to make grappa.

Or, that may just be wishful thinking.
absinthist
As much as marc and grappa are akin, grappa seems to be more betterer, if the righteous people are working with grain (DP or Marc are, for instance).
dakini_painter
No, not grappa. The dominant grape of New York is the concord grape, and I doubt that would make a good grappa. Plus I'm not near any wineries.
Provenance
Any good plums up there?
dakini_painter
No. No plums either.

This used to be pretty good apple country, but no working orchards here (the Hudson Valley is different though). Some folks know where there's an old orchard that's gone wild, but usually just enough for making some pie. If you can find Cornelius Applejack from Harvest Spirits, NY I recommend it. It's a distilled spirit without any GNS added.

We do have wild raspberry, black raspberry, blackberry, blueberry. Enough to make pies, jam, and wine, but not enough for distilling.

Corn is grown now, but not so many farms anymore. Most of it's GMO corn anyway, and used for dairy cattle feed (during the winter, many are grass fed other times).
EdouardPerneau
QUOTE(dakini_painter @ Apr 14 2010, 07:29 AM) *

No, not grappa. The dominant grape of New York is the concord grape, and I doubt that would make a good grappa. Plus I'm not near any wineries.



oh snap the welch's juice Cépage
synthetic buddhist
sphinctulum.
DeLo
Sorry but I'm an obstinate person.. i want make absinthe,not grappa…now were i can find the plants for making it?Herbalist?on some web link? second…someone here know the method for determine thujon in absinthe..because i want make some lab test to my absinthe..thank you!
Stroller
I'd speak to the owner.
Tibro
QUOTE(DeLo @ Apr 23 2010, 06:19 PM) *

Sorry but I'm an obnoxious person..


Have you tried Erowid?
DeLo
Stroller i have see the site…but it speak about ''quantity''…Kg?I don't need 1 kilograms…I'm thinking to make about 2 litres of distilled so i dont need 1 kg of artemisia…and i can't order minus
Tibro
Just buy it and then send the extra that you don't use to a licensed distiller. She'll appreciate it. No waste, no muss. Everybody's satisfied.
Stroller
Again, I'd talk to the owner and see if they can assist (sell you herb in limited quantities) with your project. They may or may not be able to assist you. It's your best chance.
sixela
QUOTE(DeLo @ Apr 23 2010, 05:19 PM) *

someone here know the method for determine thujon in absinthe..

Why would you do that? It's completely irrelevant, and unless you have a well calibrated Gas Liquid Chromatography setup ( preferably with a mass spectrometer on the side to make sure you aren't detecting other things as thujone) it's not that easy either. The concentrations aren't large, and trying to detect between 1 and 60 ppm isn't for the faint of heart or "easy".
Provenance
There is a complicated chemical methodology referenced in US regulations that will provide a binary determination as to whether or not chop.gif is present. I'm not sure of the test's level of sensitivity but wouldn't be surprised to find that's about the 10mg/L standard.
absinthist
Why determine porkchop when you are in Europe? Italian chemotype ain't high AFAIR.
dakini_painter
Boggy, he's trying to do a high school chemistry project.

Here's a 1000 page book on modern methods of GC.

Over at GenTech Scientific you can get some used GC/MS equipment.

Here's a used HP 5970 for only $10,000.

http://gentechscientific.com/wp-content/up…0-5890A-SC2.JPG

This system from Varian looks very nice. Might be a little pricey though.

I don't know why you're so obsessed with absinthe, as at the high school chemistry level you're going to have enough to learn and experience just with distillation, let alone fermentation. There's so many variables just with those two simple things, that it's far from simple.
Stroller
He wants to be the cool kid at screwl. Don't crush his hopes, that happens later in life.
sixela
QUOTE(Provenance @ Apr 23 2010, 10:01 PM) *

There is a complicated chemical methodology referenced in US regulations that will provide a binary determination as to whether or not chop.gif is present.

The only problem with it is that it doesn't work reliably (with a lot of false positives and false negatives). But if pretending to produce a result is more important than getting it right,…

Grim
QUOTE(absinthist @ Apr 13 2010, 02:10 PM) *

As much as marc and grappa are akin, grappa seems to be more betterer, if the righteous people are working with grain (DP or Marc are, for instance).

Depends, grappa from white wine and red wine can be night and day. With due caution, the distillation of a white vin de marc can result in a passable, if not interesting, spirit base.
Grim
I didn't know you homebrew beer… all-grain…
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