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mgs
Can someone please explain me the differences and similarities of the forums in La Fée Verte and WS ?

I observed that there are some common people in both…….. The web-site programing is very similar, although I learned that FV has been around for longer…

There are a few topics in La Fée verte that we don't have in WS and vice-versa….

I also observed that in La Fée Verte people like to be more anonymous than in WS……. it would be interesting to understand why….

I also understand that diversity is always better, but would not be interesting to merge both forums ?

- Marcelo

PS: I posted a similar discussion in WS…… but I thought would be also interesting to get your perspective here… guillotine.gif
Jaded Prole
This is an open forum where you can say anything you choose. Though you may have to bear the consequences, you will not be banned.
Provenance
The essence of WS is explained here http://www.louchedlounge.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5546
Tibro
Which is not to say that that link explains the essence of the Lounge. While the essence of FV is that it is essential. From which you may accurately conclude that WS is merely an accident.

A tragic accident.

Philosophically speaking.
mgs
if I can say whatever I want and not be banned it is something that I like.

I grew up in a military dictatorship in Brazil…. and went to the streets in 1984 (Diretas Já) to support democratic elections for president……… now Brazil is a democracy, but I lived there during bad times…..

so, I like the spirit that we can say what we think.

and I am open to any criticism. Dialogue is what constructs the world.

speak_n_spell.gif

Cheers,

- Marcelo
Tibro
I'm close to some people with experience of growing up under a Communist regime. Censorship is a black hole that goes against the very nature of human endeavors. Of course, the freedom to say whatever you want also carries its own consequences. Everybody around you is also free to comment on your words, ideas and opinions. Some of it can hurt. But even that pain can point out that you're free and alive and, yes, even able to fuck up and shout about it. Cacophony is sometimes just a joyous celebration of life and freedom.
Jaded Prole
Cacophony beats the heck out of phony caca!
eric
Word!
Shabba53
QUOTE(Jaded Prole @ Apr 13 2010, 06:18 PM) *

Cacophony

That's fine. But it's also the reason why this place is deserted and why the press avoids this place like the plague. It's been a pretty quiet cacophony over the past year or two. One would have expected the opposite, since absinthe has been in the public eye during the same time frame.

If your intent is to create that type of atmosphere, s'all good. I enjoy this place for what it is, and I enjoy the WS for what it is.

There's a difference between asking for a modicum of civility in order to create credibility and a welcoming atmosphere for strangers or researchers, and a military dictatorship.

My intent isn't to offend by posting this. It's to show the reality of the situation. Again, I like both places. I have fun in both places. But as mentioned, there are consequences for certain behaviors. Some, such as the flight of many active members here, might be unintended. But it happened.
mgs
QUOTE(Shabba53 @ Apr 15 2010, 07:03 AM) *

QUOTE(Jaded Prole @ Apr 13 2010, 06:18 PM) *

Cacophony

… it's also the reason why this place is deserted…..


although I am a newcomer in both WS and FV, that is what I feel….. FV has many interesting posted topics, but seems a desert…..

I am not familiar to "forums"… this is my first experience in subscribing a forum. The only reason I subscribed was to learn about absinthe, since nobody in my immediate friendship knows or understand anything. Since "everything is on the Internet" I decided to subscribe to both WS and FV.

Of course I smell past problems that might involve people in WS and FV. I don't care because I am new here and there. And I learned folks, that "future is the next minute"…….. live with this in mind and you will have a better life ---- own experience.

SAÚDE.

- mgs
Jaded Prole
Open society always has its dangers but at least people can feel free to speak without fearing the judgment of an all-powerful dictatorship. FV and Oxy's site are by far the best source of information on absinthe - the forum is an adjunct to that and not central to accessing that information. Many of those without whom absinthe would still be a historic aberration have historic attachments to this place and not a few of the best have incurred the wrath of Hiram and been banned from WS. Provenance's post shows the danger of that model when an innocent person wandered in only to accidentally tweak the Master's paranoia and be mistaken for Kirk (who apparently has been preemptively exiled from where he hasn't gone) and banned outright.

Sad, really.

The Press can go where they choose. The information is here but no-one is going out of their way to seek publicity for themselves.
Shabba53
QUOTE(Jaded Prole @ Apr 15 2010, 10:49 AM) *
the forum is an adjunct to that and not central to accessing that information.

Very true, but it's also associated with FV. And brings its reputation to the rest of the site.

We aren't trying to seek attention for ourselves. We're trying to educate the public. And doing a damn fine job of it. The information might be here, but people don't want to deal with everything else that comes along with it. Every time I speak to the press, I mention Oxy's sites. You would be amazed how many of them remark about the bad rep that the forums have. It really is a shame.

QUOTE
Provenance's post shows the danger of that model when an innocent person wandered in only to accidentally tweak the Master's paranoia

Oh please. Maybe you've changed since the last time I saw you, but I think you're better than to try to shovel that shite.
Tibro
Good fucking luck educating the public. I'll stick to the forum where education is your own responsibility. The press have shown how slow they are to accept that responsibility. And the public gets what they deserve.
Shabba53
Fair enough.

But I guess that's where the difference between you and I lies. I'm a total proponent of caviat emptor, but I also have always been the type of person who likes to teach to people who are willing to listen. It's fun for me.

I have to admit, while the education process is extremely slow, I've had examples that show promise.

I attended a bitters seminar with Derek Brown about a week ago at the Columbia Room in DC. There were about 14 or 15 attendees, most of whom own bars or are mixologists. At the beginning, we went around the room to introduce ourselves. I mentioned that I was from the WS.

At the end of the seminar, as we were shooting the shit, we got to talking about absinthe. One of the guys (he runs 'A Jigger of a Blog') mentions that he reads the reviews (not just mine, ALL of the reviews for the particular product) before buying new products. Almost the entire group agreed and we began discussing some of the reviews.

Even though that's a small segment of the population, it's a segment that gets in front of a lot of people. If they are properly informed, it's a good start.

The seminar itself will even be on the radio, so it might drive even more people to do some research.

QUOTE
I'll stick to the forum where education is your own responsibility.

Somehow, I don't think that's how you view your occupation. It's not a far leap to bring that into your life outside of work.
Patlow
That last post seemed pretty pompous.
Shabba53
Pompous by saying that people recognized the WS?

Pompous by saying I have fun teaching?

Seems to me, the 'Fuck everyone, they get what they deserve' comment is more pompous.


Think of it what you will. I've no illusions that I'll win anyone over on this site. Beliefs and opinions are too deeply rooted at this point.
Tibro
He may have been referring to your self-aggrandizing way of making a point by pointing out what swell, helpful shlub you are. Thank you for pointing that out. And if you and that swell, helpful forum you commend needs to ban, er, expel from class a few obstreperous rowdies so the good mannered folk in the first row aren't distracted from their lessons, then so be it. What do we know about it, anyway.
Shabba53
The amount of people we've banned in the past several years is about equal to the number of people who left during the great schism, but have started to come around again.

So I like to teach. So what? I'm certainly not the only one at the WS and I'm sure there are a few here too. It's interesting how that can be turned around to me acting high-brow.

I understand. It's for the spectacle. That's OK. I won't take it personally.
Tibro
Wisdom and education from the man who wrote:

QUOTE
People can run a forum however they so choose. Hypocritical or not. It doesn't matter.


I'm sure there must be a lesson in that somewhere.
Shabba53
It's true isn't it? If someone owns a forum, they can run it how they choose. That's not to say anything about Gwydion or Oxy or Ben or anyone else. It's just a fact. There's nothing you or I or anyone else can do to change it. They own it. I know you like to distort that by saying it's an admission that I think Gwydion is a hypocrite, but that wasn't my intention, and I'm sure you know that.

But I find it funny that you talk about hypocrisy, when you explained to me that censorship is evil and should never be tolerated, then came back and said it's OK for you to censor yourself at work because it's your job.

I guess censorship's OK if it pays the bills, but the line is drawn there.
Artemis
MGS originally posted his question at WWS. I responded and asked him why he didn't post it here. Thank you, MGS for doing so.

I wanted it posted here because I was confident he would get opinions here that he wouldn't get there.

As I explained over there, Under the Bridge wasn't the best place for it (assuming it wasn't moved here from somewhere else, which if it happened was unfortunate because he's not a troll and I think he had only good intentions).
Absomphe
QUOTE(Shabba53 @ Apr 15 2010, 11:24 AM) *

But I guess that's where the difference between you and I lies.


For the love of God, Montresor, …me, not I!!! frusty.gif
Artemis
I have to say that it's a joke that "the press" avoids this place (or any place that provides solid information). They don't have to comment in the forum, or even reveal that they are here, to glean information. So what's the problem? All the truth anyone needs to know about absinthe has been available here for many years, yet "the press" almost completely continued to ignore absinthe or to publish trash. Members here have every reason to hold "the press" in contempt. In fact, so does everybody else. To hell with "the press".

As to credibility, I would put the credibility of this place with regard to absinthe up against any source, anywhere, any time.
Jaded Prole
I'll drink to that!
Absomphe
Beat you to it!
Tibro
Shabbutt, I won't contest that the owner of a piece of property may handle their owned bit of propagandist machinery as they choose. But for you to swing your leaden balls around in a professed effort to edumacate the dirty masses, or the prim and proper honor students, or who-the-fuck-ever it may be, and say that any institutional hypocrisy, should it exist, "doesn't matter" is an attitude that should worry anybody seeking the truth. WS has an owner that may or may not be a hypocrite wielding a propaganda tool that he owns and professes to use towards a particular purpose. You, belonging to the inner sanctum of that collection of tools, don't care if it's being wielded honestly or hypocritically. What the fuck do you want us to invest in?
Shabba53
QUOTE(Artemis @ Apr 15 2010, 06:01 PM) *

I have to say that it's a joke that "the press" avoids this place (or any place that provides solid information).
You don't have to agree. But it isn't a joke. I've heard it so many times, I've lost count.

How many times have you seen Fee Verte referenced in an article?

QUOTE
They don't have to comment in the forum, or even reveal that they are here, to glean information. So what's the problem?
The problem is wading through all of the flaming and vitriol. Understand that many journalists are under deadlines and are looking for quick answers. If they have to dig through 3 pages of insults and arguments to find 2 or 3 posts of good information, they'll look somewhere else.

QUOTE
yet "the press" almost completely continued to ignore absinthe or to publish trash.
I can give you pdfs of articles in some of the best publications that are fairly well written and deliver good information to the public. The articles or presentations that aren't well written, are typically done by people who don't do their research. Which underscores the need for a good source of information that provides a comfortable atmosphere for them to get that information.

QUOTE
In fact, so does everybody else. To hell with "the press".
So, do you think that this site has the potential to reach more people than say, an article written in Reuters, or Robb Report, or Denver Post? Which has better potential to inform more people?

QUOTE
As to credibility, I would put the credibility of this place with regard to absinthe up against any source, anywhere, any time.

There is no argument that this site is a vast wealth of knowledge. That wasn't my point. But the credibility most certainly is tainted if a newcomer or researcher ventures into the forums and sees very little substantive discussion anymore. Along with have to sift through all of the negativity, that can definitey leave a bad taste in someone's mouth, and most certainly has.

Just look at the statistics regarding unique visits and even visits by established members. Active discussions have all but disappeared. Most of the people who are major resources don't even post anymore. Do you think that's a coincidence?
Shabba53
QUOTE(Tibro @ Apr 15 2010, 07:07 PM) *
WS has an owner that may or may not be a hypocrite wielding a propaganda tool that he owns and professes to use towards a particular purpose.

Propaganda? What purpose are you talking about other than education? And PLEEEEASE don't say it's for his own brand. That argument is so ridiculous, and actually quite hypocritical for you to criticize if that's what you believe.
Tibro
Propaganda, as in offering the proper edumacational informations. I didn't say it's a shill site, if that's what you're trying to accuse me of.

And do you think it's a coincidence that banning a few people leads the remaining members to stifle their dissent? If you can slap the leaders and the knowledgeable dissenters the sheep will follow. And bleat according to the Chairman's wishes. At least on his public domain.
Shabba53
I'm sure you're smarter than that. If they dissent, they will just go away. They aren't forced to stay on the forum. They won't just continue to stay. There are too many other places they can go. That's a ridiculous argument.

So again, what's the propaganda?
Shabba53
QUOTE(Tibro @ Apr 15 2010, 07:25 PM) *

Propaganda, as in offering the proper edumacational informations.

Normally when that word is used, it is assigned a negative connotation. Which I'm sure was your intent.
Tibro
That's right, any dissenters at WS come here and say whatever they want. No exceptions.

QUOTE

Main Entry: pro·pa·gan·da

2 : the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person


Propaganda is the dissemination of ideas and information. FV and WS are both propaganda machines. Except here at FV Oxy doesn't take careful aim to control all the opinions expressed and which should suppressed.

Clearly you have no fucking clue what my intent is when I use language, and use it appropriately.
Shabba53
And how many people in the past few years have left the WS to come here and bitch about it? They're coming over in droves, are they?

Let me turn that around. How many people have left FV, and instead joined the WS, or joined WS solely because they didn't like the atmosphere here?

I think we know which way the scales tip on those two questions.

I have more than a clue, just based on your past actions. Hell, I might know you better than you know yourself.
Artemis
QUOTE
How many times have you seen Fee Verte referenced in an article?


I don't look. I don't care. The Internet long ago supplanted "the press" as the prime source of information. It doesn't matter what "the press" says anymore. So now, "the press" (like everyone else) is getting their information from the Internet? So they can what, pass it along to the handful of people who don't have access to the Internet, or to the lazy, or to the luddites? And we have to be nice to make sure they linger long enough to learn something worthwhile before passing it along to the insignificant number of people who for some bizarre reason chose not to bypass "the press" and go directly to the source? But maybe by "the press" you don't mean printed material, but websites run by "the press"? In what way are they more legitimate than this place? They're not. They're johnny come lately, profit-driven, would-be high priests of information too stubborn and conceited to understand that there's a new religion in town.

QUOTE
The problem is wading through all of the flaming and vitriol.


I've never found the level of flaming and vitriol here or on any other forum too much for me to handle. Time for "the press" and everybody else to man up. If I can do it, they can do it. I guess it depends upon how bad you want to learn something. That also goes for all the thin-skinned who allegedly turn their noses up at the (mostly long ago dried-up) blood here.

QUOTE
Understand that many journalists are under deadlines and are looking for quick answers. If they have to dig through 3 pages of insults and arguments to find 2 or 3 posts of good information, they'll look somewhere else.


Understand what I and some others had to dig through for YEARS, in obscure places, in foreign languages, at legal risk in some cases, and you may understand why I have no sympathy for people who want quick answers.
I am a writer by profession and have been for most of my adult life. I have always valued GOOD answers, have never cared how hard I had to work to get them, have been wary of quick answers, and have never let a deadline come before accuracy. In any case, only an idiot would dig through three pages of anything to find an answer when a search engine is available. I would submit that digging through three pages of "how are you, I had a nice day today, that's political so let's not discuss it further, and I just love that new (insert name of shitty "absinthe")" is every bit as tedious as sifting through three pages of insults and arguments, and a lot less entertaining, but that's just me.

QUOTE
So, do you think that this site has the potential to reach more people than say, an article written in Reuters, or Robb Report, or Denver Post? Which has better potential to inform more people?


I know for a fact that this site has the potential to reach anybody that any of those things reaches. Anybody can click a mouse. As to whether said people will be more accurately informed here than by those sources, it's here, period, end of story. Anybody who doubts that is a fool.

QUOTE
But the credibility most certainly is tainted if a newcomer or researcher ventures into the forums and sees very little substantive discussion anymore.


Using that logic, someone who doesn't talk much is probably a liar. Besides, the archives talk.

QUOTE
Just look at the statistics regarding unique visits


http://siteanalytics.compete.com/wormwoods...om/?metric=sess

Pretty close and getting closer.

QUOTE
Just look at the statistics regarding unique visits and even visits by established members. Active discussions have all but disappeared. Most of the people who are major resources don't even post anymore. Do you think that's a coincidence?


A coincidence with what? The supposedly offensive tone of this place? I think Aggelos nailed it in his response at WWS. People aren't likely to get engaged in trivial conversation here - that's why some old hands don't post, and that's why some newcomers are intimidated. As to departed established members, some turned pro. Some got bored. Some quit drinking. Some grew up. Some died. Some got their feelings hurt and left. I know which ones I miss the least.
Shabba53
QUOTE(Artemis @ Apr 15 2010, 08:37 PM) *
But maybe by "the press" you don't mean printed material, but websites run by "the press"? In what way are they more legitimate than this place? They're not.
Correct. But they have hundreds of thousands more readers.

QUOTE
They're johnny come lately, profit-driven, would-be high priests of information too stubborn and conceited to understand that there's a new religion in town.
No argument there.

QUOTE
I've never found the level of flaming and vitriol here or on any other forum too much for me to handle.
But there are hardcore forumites, and there are normal people. The normal people outnumber us dramatically.

QUOTE
I guess it depends upon how bad you want to learn something.
The general public has an attention span shorter than [insert witty short joke here]. You know that. Absinthe isn't important enough to most people to wade through it all.

QUOTE
Understand what I and some others had to dig through for YEARS, in obscure places, in foreign languages, at legal risk in some cases, and you may understand why I have no sympathy for people who want quick answers.
I DO understand. And I hold you and the rest of those researchers in the highest esteem.

QUOTE
I have always valued GOOD answers, have never cared how hard I had to work to get them, have been wary of quick answers, and have never let a deadline come before accuracy.
Which is why you're a better writer than most, and probably just a better person in general.

QUOTE
As to whether said people will be more accurately informed here than by those sources, it's here, period, end of story. Anybody who doubts that is a fool.
You know I don't doubt that. But it's a numbers game.

QUOTE
Using that logic, someone who doesn't talk much is probably a liar. Besides, the archives talk.
Just calling out the facts as I've heard them from people who have done exactly what I told you.

QUOTE
Pretty close and getting closer.
You mean for the month? Look longer term.
Artemis
Yes, just a month. There may or may not be a trend.

So it seems we have agreement on some points. I guess I just don't have much time for the "general public", or much respect for them honestly. I've never seen it as my mission and it certainly wasn't my desire to educate them. I just found a place where I was comfortable talking about something that fueled my interest with people whom I found to be largely tolerable and at times brilliant. If people in the shadows learned something or were entertained, good. If not, still good.

Thanks for the kind words, I appreciate it.
Shabba53
Nothing to argue about there. As I've always said. There are people who find each place enjoyable. I'm one of them. I enjoy a spirited debate every once in a while.

It's always been a passion of mine to educate. Which is really why I started my practice. It was an easy transition to do so as a hobby too. Especially with something like absinthe, which has such a convoluted and fascinating history.
mgs
if you guys want a coffee, I can make a Brazilian coffee that is the best and usually "calms down" anyone…. just show up in my place …..

thanks for all the information. I did not want to bring old and dead discussions… I just wanted to understand the forums FV and WS. They are really different, for sure, even a newcomer can easily catch.

and…. yes…. it was my fault to post on "Under the Bridge" but I did not find a general area for general announcements….. or maybe I missed, I don't know…


- Marccelo



Artemis
It's all good. I would be happy to take you up on the coffee, mgs. I'm much more likely to drink that than absinthe (or any other liquor) these days.

The discussion is old, but it was never dead - it has always simmered under the surface.

And speaking only for myself, I'm so calm I'm almost dead. But my keyboard throws sparks, sometimes I even get burned.
Donnie Darko
QUOTE(Artemis @ Apr 15 2010, 08:37 PM) *


Understand what I and some others had to dig through for YEARS, in obscure places, in foreign languages, at legal risk in some cases, and you may understand why I have no sympathy for people who want quick answers.
I am a writer by profession and have been for most of my adult life. I have always valued GOOD answers, have never cared how hard I had to work to get them, have been wary of quick answers, and have never let a deadline come before accuracy.


I barely have time to read forums anymore, but the above quote alone was worth much more than the time spent reading it. You just summed up the entire problem with "journalism" today, not just divergent preferences regarding forum nuances. One can find good answers both here and at Wormwood Society. As for comfort, I feel I can be myself here more than there, so that's why I'm here, but many find their "self" fits best over there. Whatever.

But in terms of answers, where did those answers come from in the first place? That is a fucking FAR more interesting question than some dipshit argument about which forum is best. Real information comes from people who looked into the subject exhaustively and skeptically, because they cared about it and cared about accuracy, and cared enough about the process of learning it to share it with those who were likewise passionate.

And then there are the people who love sounding like an authority on things but rarely if ever are, which is the realm of journalists and distributors of information, whether they be part of a newspaper or on TV or an internet forum. It's the realm of those who try to repeat and condense information from elsewhere and usually either get it wrong or manipulate it for their own purposes. One must be able to distill knowledge properly just like one must distill absinthe properly: with attention to detail, to look underneath the surface, and to not settle for what is easy or fits a predefined answer.

Sorry for sounding so philosophical and pretentious, but sometimes that's just me.

And welcome Marccello. You seem like an interesting person.
Patlow
Shabba-

When I said your post sounded pompous, I didn't have a problem with any of the actual words that you typed and I have nothing against you (I've seen you speak online, and I think you're a very likable bloke).

It's more of your (seemingly endless) unwillingness to let anything go and to always insist on having the last word. I feel like that attitude is omnipresent in so many threads here.

I too am a writer by profession (and I have even published on the topic of absinthe) so I detest censorship and that whole, "Get your own show" mentality. It offends me on a professional and even personal level.

FV might be a desert to you, but it's my internet absinthe home, and I don't like seeing shit slug at my house.

And if some have left FV or don't post here anymore b/c they've been offended while the WS is on fire, well, enjoy the burn. I won't be buying the next Jonas Brothers' album either.

I like my rock dirty, like my absinthe forum. I don't ever want this place to suffer the fate of Times Square at the hands of a Disneyland mentality.

Cheers, dude… And cheers to FV!

absintheglass-glow2.gif
Shabba53
I completely understand where you're coming from, yet:

QUOTE(Patlow @ Apr 15 2010, 11:31 PM) *
but it's my internet absinthe home, and I don't like seeing shit slug at my house.

Why am I to blame for reacting to accusations? Why is no blame placed on those to sling the first stone? What about those who instead of sticking to the issue, turn it into personal attacks.

I'm sorry, but I've very rarely, if ever, been the person to start an attack. I've turned my cheek many a time. I've let plenty go. I let enough go on another forum that Tibro got bored and left after he realized he wouldn't be getting any more attention. I only jumped in on this conversation because I knew I was expected to.

If you want less shit to be slung, then maybe efforts should be made to stop it from starting in the first place instead of only calling out the person who defended themselves.

Is the problem really me, for getting the last word, or is it at least partially the fault of those who get the first?

If I came up to you in a bar and called you a prick and threw a drink in your face, should I be surprised that you might retaliate? Would it be your fault for getting pissed at my actions, or would the blame fall mainly on me for being the prick in the first place?
Patlow
QUOTE(Shabba53 @ Apr 15 2010, 08:03 PM) *

I completely understand where you're coming from, yet:

If I came up to you in a bar and called you a prick and threw a drink in your face, should I be surprised that you might retaliate? Would it be your fault for getting pissed at my actions, or would the blame fall mainly on me for being the prick in the first place?


Kung Fu has taught me NOT to fight. No need to kill someone who wants your wallet, just break the hand reaching for it and walk away with the wallet intact.

(Where do you live? I can recommend a Kung Fu school for you! It might help!)

Anyhoo… It's late here…

I get where you're coming from too…

Cheers!
Patlow
That being said, I'd didn't mean to get all "Kum bay ya" on the last post.

Your post that I commented on did offend me.

I just don't want to perpetuate it.
Shabba53
QUOTE(Patlow @ Apr 16 2010, 01:02 AM) *
Your post that I commented on did offend me.

Well, that wasn't my intent, so I apologize for another example of unintended consequences.

As to your reference, the breaking of the hand is a reaction. What you explained to me basically means you should let them take your wallet and not respond at all.
Patlow
Ahhhh… No matter now. No biggie.
eric
QUOTE(Shabba53 @ Apr 15 2010, 07:53 AM) *
A better comparison (as opposed to a military dictatorship) is to the difference between a Suit-and-tie restaurant and your local McDonalds.


The more appropriate comparison would be between Romper Room and Oxford.
Not that there is anything wrong with Romper Room. abs-cheers.gif
Provenance
QUOTE(Shabba53 @ Apr 15 2010, 08:38 AM) *
We're trying to educate the public.

You place great importance on education and appearing "respectable" to enhance site popularity with newbies and the media.

Both goals are ultimately irrelevant. Absinthe is a drink, not a cause.

Sure there is a huge amount of information on absinthe here accessible to anyone interested. But so what? Far more important is that virtually everyone alive who created that information, sweated for it, dug into old books for it, imagined and reimagined it, is or has been an active member here. And the pioneers discussed what they learned, thought, or felt like saying at the moment. I've even heard rumors that perhaps there may have been a touch of vitriol involved in some of those conversations, conversations that could never have taken place at WS, at least once it stopped being a local forum. Perhaps the motives of all those folks was to make life easy for reporters on deadline or to look oh-so-respectable for the neighbors, but I doubt it.

It's the process of discovery that matters, not reading some FAQs. No one needs FV to learn about absinthe. Like most others here, you probably managed to learn a great deal about absinthe when far less information was available.

FV has evolved. It's less a place of discovery and more a hangout for old friends. That may not be great for the ratings but it works.

The most important fact about absinthe I've learned is that its essence of absinthe is found in a LoucheFest. And a LoucheFest can be held without a drop of alcohol. Absinthe isn't about chop.gif, it isn't even about drinking. It's about the people who choose to drink and learn about and discuss absinthe. Even if they never voiced it, what Lautrec and Degas and Rimbaud knew is that it isn't what's in the glass that matters but the people you are with when drinking that glass.

On one level, you understand that. Perhaps you are ready to recount the great many (important) people you drink with. Or fond memories of drinking with friends. On another level, despite all of that, despite your endless protestations to the contrary, you don't have a clue.
Shabba53
You're right prov. I don't have a clue. I'm wandering aimlessly through life.

QUOTE
Absinthe is a drink, not a cause.

I agree. I don't treat absinthe as a cause. I treat absinthe education as a cause.

QUOTE
FV has evolved. It's less a place of discovery and more a hangout for old friends. That may not be great for the ratings but it works.
I don't see a problem with that at all.

I don't need absinthe to spend quality time with friends and associates. The friendships built due to absinthe are a separate part of my life. I don't hold tastings and seminars to build great relationships. Those are meant to educate the public. I build the relationships before and after those events, when I can sit down and get personal with people and learn about them and have a tertulia or two.

And Prov, you don't know me personally. So you don't know my motivations. Nor do you know the value I place on close relationships. You probably don't care to know either, since you've rebuffed me each time I've asked you to get together. That's fine. But don't try to act like you know whether I have a clue or not.
Oxygenee
An interesting thread, I've enjoyed reading it, and it got me thinking about what the site means to me. I'll post some thoughts on Fee Verte past, present and future here or under a separate heading over the weekend.
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