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Full Version: Jade distiller proof and versinthe the same ??
The Fée Verte Absinthe Forum - The Oldest, Largest, Most Authoritative Absinthe Forum. > Absinthe & Absinthiana > Absinthe Brands Discussion
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EdouardPerneau
I was just reading on the versinthe web site this morning we I say this :

Afin d'affiner certaines macérations, la Liquoristerie de Provence a mis au point une technique unique de distillation (qui est utilisée en parfumerie), c'est la distillation à " basse température " sous-vide.
C'est ainsi que notamment pour la Blanche, nous distillons nos macérations de Versinthe pour les affiner. Une pompe à vide fait le vide dans l'alambic qui est chauffé à la vapeur par un système de double coque.
En évaporant à 45° Celsius, nous obtenons ainsi un alcool dont les parfums sont préservés avec finesse évitant ainsi d'être " brûlé " par une température trop élevée. Ces différentes macérations et distillats sont par la suite assemblés par le liquoriste selon des méthodes et des dosages que lui-seul connaît. C'est sur une balance électronique que nous obtenons la précision nécessaire à nos dosages.

Versinthe blanche is made using an rotovap just like Jade's lab sample …
Shabba53
And that, therefore, makes the two the same?
Artemis
Vacuum distillation does not imply rotary evaporation.

They're talking about an assemblage of essences, as well - not the way the original Jades were pursued, I don't think. Not that it couldn't be done that way.
EdouardPerneau
it was just for kidding a bit since several HGer jack of on jade distiller's proof
Phoenix
EdouardPerneau, you don't care for the Jades?
Shabba53
Ha!
Artemis
Those HGers are kidding themselves.
EdouardPerneau
QUOTE(Phoenix @ Feb 20 2011, 10:10 PM) *

EdouardPerneau, you don't care for the Jades?



I don't care anymore :) …. I don't want to start this again already too much discused
Kirk
It would be hard on me to name a product I jack for.
G&C
I have a distillers proof of that VS, Unopened.
Someone like to make an offer?
Green Baron
Wait, wait , wait…unsure.gif The Jade "Lab Samples" are a different animal (Thai? were they Don Walsh era? and/or vacuum distillation?) than the Jade "Distiller's Proofs" (commercially offered pre-production runs immediately preceding full production Jades that are currently available?), non?

It was my impression that the lab samples were the ones that everyone was swooning over*, but the distiller's proofs were generally not quite as good as regular production (needed more tweaking).


Artemis
I thought Ed meant jacking ON; apparently he meant TO.

I also thought he meant this:

I can't speak to any bottled version, which I doubt involved heap big suction of that sort.
Artemis
The Baron's post beat mine to the board. He is correct AFAIK.
G&C
One way to find out…
Donnie Darko
QUOTE(Artemis @ Feb 21 2011, 04:01 PM) *

I thought Ed meant jacking ON; apparently he meant TO.

I also thought he meant this:

I can't speak to any bottled version, which I doubt involved heap big suction of that sort.


That pic made me realize that Mercury and hausgemacht booze use the same letters, Hg. Funny coincidence.

What does that number represent anyway? Negative millimeters of mercury doesn't make sense in terms of pressure, but negative numbers don't make sense on the torrent, pascal or atmosphere scales either.
Green Baron
For the record, it seems the VS 65 Distiller's Proof was well received in the Buyers Guide. If I wasn't a poor college student at the moment, I'd be tempted to make an offer myself.

Also, has anyone ever done a side-by-side tasting of all three Jade generations (lab sample, pre-proof, production). Or even better (I know I'm getting into the fantastical here), all three generations PLUS the original pre-ban they were supposed to represent?
Artemis
The gauge was built with measuring negative pressure (a vacuum) in mind, therefore if it's reading zero, that's roughly 30 inches of mercury (atmospheric pressure - depending on whether you have the gauge at sea level or whatever). If you ignore the minus sign and subtract the displayed number from whatever the ambient atmospheric pressure was, that would be the current atmospheric pressure in the system - in this case, six or seven inches of mercury - the pump is pulling 23 or so inches off the normal height of the column of mercury.

The gauge can be set to display millimeters for Eurotrash or anyone else comfortable with that scale.

When you start getting into pascals, etc. it gets very confusing.
Artemis
QUOTE
Also, has anyone ever done a side-by-side tasting of all three Jade generations


Not I. The vacuum stuff is what, ten years gone (thank you, Led Zeppelin). So while G&C is in theory correct, one would have to have saved some for today's side by side (I guess that's what he means, anyway).

But I took Ed to mean some HGer jizzing ON (as opposed to TO) Ted's HG vacuum product in comparison to that HGer's effort, and that's why I said the HGer is only kidding himself.
Absomphe
QUOTE(Green Baron @ Feb 21 2011, 12:54 PM) *

It was my impression that the lab samples were the ones that everyone was swooning over*, but the distiller's proofs were generally not quite as good as regular production (needed more tweaking).


Yes* and yes.

*I don't know about "everyone", but I thought they were delicious.

Of course, keep in mind that there wasn't much competition back in 2000-2001 to pit them against, and nobody had a very seasoned absinthe palate in those days.
Green Baron
Thanks guys.

Yes Absomphe, that it an excellent point I was wondering about (I was originally gonna make that a subtopic from the *, but I didn't wanna dilute the main focus of that post).

I didn't realize the lab samples were clear back in 2000-2001 (I'm assuming you meant A.D. Abs). I would imagine there weren't even very many excellent HGs to compare the lab samples to at that point. So perhaps by the time the Jades were in full production, palates were a little more Jaded. That's why I was curious about anyone who may have tasted the lab stamples next to a modern Jade (or the ultimate test, a real pre-ban).
EdouardPerneau
I meant lab sample to make clear those made with Dr. Evil apparatus like rotovap and in an HG scale Frankenstein.gif
Donnie Darko
QUOTE(Artemis @ Feb 21 2011, 04:38 PM) *

The gauge was built with measuring negative pressure (a vacuum) in mind, therefore if it's reading zero, that's roughly 30 inches of mercury (atmospheric pressure - depending on whether you have the gauge at sea level or whatever). If you ignore the minus sign and subtract the displayed number from whatever the ambient atmospheric pressure was, that would be the current atmospheric pressure in the system - in this case, six or seven inches of mercury - the pump is pulling 23 or so inches off the normal height of the column of mercury.

The gauge can be set to display millimeters for Eurotrash or anyone else comfortable with that scale.

When you start getting into pascals, etc. it gets very confusing.


So the pressure inside is about .2 atmospheres. That's quite a vacuum!
Donnie Darko
QUOTE(Green Baron @ Feb 21 2011, 06:35 PM) *

I didn't realize the lab samples were clear back in 2000-2001 (I'm assuming you meant A.D. Abs). I would imagine there weren't even very many excellent HGs to compare the lab samples to at that point.


There was only one other I was aware of at that time that was excellent, and that maker disappeared off the radar and his product vanished with him. Too bad.

QUOTE
So perhaps by the time the Jades were in full production, palates were a little more Jaded. That's why I was curious about anyone who may have tasted the lab stamples next to a modern Jade (or the ultimate test, a real pre-ban).


I tasted a Jade lab sample a day after tasting a freshly opened 1930s Tarragonna and I actually thought the lab sample tasted better, though the Tarragonna had a better aroma. The lab sample was remarkable, still (at least from memory) the most impressive modern absinthe I've had. The lab samples were made using a Rotavap or something similar, in which you lower the internal atmospheric pressure to achieve evaporation of the ethanol and the flavors rather than applying lots of heat (liquids change phase to gas when the vapor pressure of the liquid equals the atmospheric pressure above the liquid). As a result you're not really cooking anything like in traditional distillation. That has big implications for flavor and aroma, for better or worse. Rotavaps have become popular among culinary adventurers lately, and have been used to create all sorts of flavored essences. While both copper alambics and Rotavaps accomplish the same thing, they do it in such a radically different manner, each with their own complications, that you basically have to relearn distillation if you switch from one to the other. It's not realistic to produce an absinthe on even a microdistillery scale with a rotavap, as the equipment is enormously expensive, dangerous, and its output is too limited to satisfy much of a demand.

Artemis
QUOTE
That's quite a vacuum!


It's pretty scary, if you've only seen phase changes under normal pressure before. Blink your eyes and stuff is boiling like hell.
R3al Caravano
Just out of curiosity, what is the distiller's proof in ABV?
G&C
65°.
G&C
I also have an unopened Verte de Fougerolles from November 2003.
25 11 03
L3 329 05
Stamped on the side of the cap.

It is 72° abv.
R3al Caravano
I wasn't sure if the number was a reference to the percent or the year from which it was replicated. While this is going to go as a big no duh to some people, alcohol percentage increases across the still. What should also come as a big no duh, what does this say for Duplais's protocol.
Steve
What the heck are you talking about? The ABV that the absinthe is bottled at has nothing to do with the distillation protocol.
R3al Caravano
The distillation protocol provides for an still ABV and then a final ABV at bottling, which is a sight bit higher than 65.
absinthist
Caravano is right. There is still proof, distiller's proof and bottling proof.

On example of one Swiss la bleue distilled 11/02/2011: Still proof: 74.1%, distiller's proof: 68%, bottling proof: 53%.
Steve
CF Berger 65°
Steve
QUOTE(absinthist @ Feb 23 2011, 01:33 AM) *

On example of one Swiss la bleue distilled 11/02/2011: Still proof: 74.1%, distiller's proof: 68%, bottling proof: 53%.

WTF does that have to do with anything?
eric
QUOTE(Steve @ Feb 22 2011, 11:42 PM) *
What the heck are you talking about? The ABV that the absinthe is bottled at has nothing to do with the distillation protocol.


I am not so sure that you are correct about that Steve. I tend to doubt that the ABV at bottling was just an arbitrary number. During the preban era, a master distiller could adjust the water in the pot to produce a very specific still strength at the end of the run. only minor reduction would be required thus producing a superior product.
Steve
Thanks, Eric. I know at least that you know what you're talking about.
absinthist
QUOTE(Steve @ Feb 23 2011, 05:58 AM) *

QUOTE(absinthist @ Feb 23 2011, 01:33 AM) *

On example of one Swiss la bleue distilled 11/02/2011: Still proof: 74.1%, distiller's proof: 68%, bottling proof: 53%.

WTF does that have to do with anything?

Example how it is done. For instance, absinthe leaves the still at 75%. The distiller proofs it to 72% and sells it as distiller's proof or leaves it for himself, or he proofs it further and gets a bottling strength of 65%.

Take whisky, for comparison, still proof: 69%, distiller's proof: 63.5%, (period of aging in barrels), bottling proof: either cask strength, so let's take 58.9% or regular strength: 43%.
Steve
It was a rhetorical question.
G&C
I still have that DP bottle of the Eddie.

No one is interested?
Donnie Darko
I thought it was Verte Suisse.
G&C
Some one is paying attention.


Are you making an offer?
Grim
80 bucks and a kiss on the cheek.
pierreverte
In the case of the Verte Suisse "distiller's proof' meant the last test distillation and had nothing to do with the degree of alcohol…and no final labels ready.
G&C
It is what it is & don't forget the red wax seal.

I have $80.00 from the man in the chair.

Picture to follow.
G&C
And
Don't forget the Fou…
Click to view attachment
Artemis
I bid $79.99
G&C
The Fou, to the man in the feet shoes…
G&C
Shoot me a PM if you're truly interested.
Artemis
Done.
G&C
Thank you to the lucky player in round 1!

I still have one Fou left and grimmy has yet to claim the VSDP.
speedle
That Jade is mine if you're still in possession and want to be a few bucks richer.
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