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hobgoblin
"Lady Thatcher will not be seeing Sarah Palin. That would be belittling for Margaret – Sarah Palin is nuts."

The naivity of Sarah Palin thinking that because she admires Margaret Thatcher, Thatcher would welcome her with open arms. And for her to think that she could just roll up to Thatcher's offices, have her photo taken with her, and use this to bolster her campaign, shows arrogance and delusions of grandeur. She shows a complete lack of understanding of the differences between the British Conservative right and the US conservative right. She has also displayed a complete lack of manners, protocol and cultural awarenessl; you just don't do that sort of thing over here - you get your office to contact the other party's office BEFORE you go about announcing in public that you plan to visit them, you don't make assumptions and mouth off without checking first - stupid woman. I'm glad we don't have the likes of her over here, even within our own conservative mainstream.
Artemis
I thought Margaret Thatcher had died years ago.
hobgoblin
She's 85 and not in the best of health; had a couple of strokes, and retired from public speaking as a result. Sarah Palin seemed to think the only thing that would stop Margaret Thatcher from meeting her would have been her health, it seemed she hadn't contemplated that Thatcher might not actually want to meet her.
Artemis
The Queen probably didn't contemplate Obama's wife touching her, either. There's no shortage of stupid women in the world.
Stroller
Not that I'm a fan of Palin but the quote doesn't sound like something that would come from a representative of Margaret Thatcher. I think her staff would have a little more tact.

sixela
QUOTE(Artemis @ Jun 12 2011, 05:27 PM) *

The Queen probably didn't contemplate Obama's wife touching her, either.

I doubt it. After all, she put her hand around Michelle's waist, not exactly something that has a response described by protocol.
hobgoblin
QUOTE(Stroller @ Jun 13 2011, 02:22 AM) *

Not that I'm a fan of Palin but the quote doesn't sound like something that would come from a representative of Margaret Thatcher. I think her staff would have a little more tact.

Are you kidding? Margaret Thatcher was one of the bluntest politicians ever produced by this country. She called things exactly as she saw things. Why would she be concerned about upsetting an ex-governor of Alaska? There has been nothing from Thatcher's office to refute the reported comments, so you can pretty much take it that this is what they actually said. I believe the actual quote is "Mrs Palin is ‘nuts’ and an ‘embarrassment’ to mainstream Tories".

In terms of rudeness, Palin's public statement of presumption that Thatcher would meet her is much ruder than a reply refuting this and giving the reason why (i.e. that Margaret Thatcher views her as being nuts). No point 'beating about the bush', just get straight to the point and say it how it is; that's perfectly acceptable over here, pretty much the norm really. Perhaps that in itself demonstrates cultural differences between the UK and USA (something that Palin seems unaware of).

Palin was trying to associate herself with Margaret Thatcher, so as bolster her status in the USA, give herself a 'statesman-like' appearance, and in doing so she was also in effect linking herself with UK Conservatives and trying to make out they were all part of the same ideology. She might have some support in the USA, but over here she's almost universally viewed as some mad-cap, gun-toting, religious nutcase who has no idea about anything outside of her own backyard. Why she would ever think that the UK right would see here as 'one of their own', God only knows.
Donnie Darko
I'm actually surprised that anybody in the Tea Party knows anything about Thatcher. I thought the Tea Party hated all things British. In any case, I don't recall Thatcher endorsing gun ownership for all or abolition of all public health service or abolition of government regulation or outlawing all abortions or being an attendee of some lunatic speaking in tongues church, so I suspect that Palin's admiration of Thatcher, like her attitude towards many things, is based on some sort of delusion.

I don't care about what's rude or not, but I do care about those who flaunt their own ignorance as if it were something to be proud of (i.e. Palin), as if that ignorance just makes them more of a "regular person", that notion itself being pretty insulting to regular people.

It is amusing to watch this endless cycle of her doing or saying something stupid and the media swarming around it as if it were the most important thing on the planet. It's all like one incredibly boring and embarrassing reality TV show. Yuck.
Stroller
Who knows what really was said, but…

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegard…rnor-of-alaska/

Sarah Palin is in the news so often it's become white noise. How about the media find something actually interesting to write about. Although, media outlets bitching about chasing her tour bus because she wouldn't give them an itinerary was hysterical.
G&C
QUOTE
…who has no idea about anything outside of her own backyard.

I'm not so sure that she even knows anything inside of her own backyard.
hobgoblin
To think that she could even be considered seriously, by a section of the Republican Party, as a potential Presidential candidate is really quite hard to fathom.

Could you imagine Sarah Palin as Commander in Chief of the US military, and in command of your huge nuclear arsenal? God help us all. Hopefully the US public would have more sense than to ever allow that to happen.
Artemis
It's pretty obvious that whoever is pulling Palin's strings viewed it some sort of proxy for a visit to Ronald Reagan. He's not receiving either.
Tibro
QUOTE(Artemis @ Jun 13 2011, 11:19 PM) *

He's not receiving either.

Don't you hate it when your heroes let you down?
Kirk
Not as much as when there aren't any.
Artemis
Well said.
Tibro
Well we can be heroes, just for one day.
Jaded Prole
or at least 15 minutes.
Provenance
QUOTE(Tibro @ Jun 14 2011, 10:37 AM) *
Well we can be heroes, just for one day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FfeXi5ymWk
sixela
QUOTE(Stroller @ Jun 13 2011, 10:08 PM) *

Ask yourself these questions:

-Did Sarah Palin publicly announce she was meeting Lady Thatcher?
-Did she, in fact, meet Lady Thatcher?

So, what's real and what's spin?
Artemis
I noticed that the writer says he used to be an aide to Thatcher. Seems like he would have some insight into what she would or wouldn't say. Personally, I don't believe she said any such thing (nuts, etc.). If one of her staff said it, that person is stupider than Palin is.
sixela
Well, I'll gladly go on record as saying she's nuts, and I dispute the assertion I'm more stupid than she is.

As hobgoblin has said, you don't have any idea about how wide the consensus is on that matter on this side of the Atlantic. Neither does Palin, apparently.

The writer used to be an aide to Thatcher, but he no longer is. He is now Washington based.

No only is he saying "this kind of thinking is alien to Lady Thatcher" (despite the fact she was renowned for expressing rather blunt views of others even in her own party), he also presumes to know who Lady Thatcher currently finds are"like minded figures" (in fact insinuating that Sarah Palin is like minded.)

I doubt Lady Thatcher actually believes that; I'm not sure I believe Sarah Palin has a 'mind' at all, in the sense of a fairly self consistent cognos, something which Lady Thatcher most certainly had when she was in power (no matter whether you believed it had anything to do with the real world).

I think Sarah Palin has "thoughts", but that does not a "mind" make. Well, she might have a mind, but then she is quite a spectacular failure at articulating it. Unlike someone much more dangerous than, say, Marine Le Pen (who was clear to put some distance between her and Sarah Palin in an interview recently, just to show you that even she knows better than to claim she's 'like minded').

The article is replete with spin, even going as far as describing Sarah Palin as a "major" US politician (!)

Using propositional logic (rather than associative thinking), I must conclude that the only thing that journalist can attest are his own current views (as a Washington based reporter) on what Lady Thatcher might think, which is not what Lady Thatcher does think.

Not that a real (and current) aide to Margaret Thatcher, of course, necessarily reflects her views either.

You still haven't answered my two questions. We'll never know what particular word Lady Thatcher might use to describe Sarah Palin (that's a side issue, I'll grant you that Lady Thatcher might not think she's nuts but merely not the sharpest crayon in the box), but it would be easier to know whether they actually meet.
Artemis
QUOTE
You still haven't answered my two questions.


Clearly, you asked Stroller, not me, and you asked four questions, not two.

Q: Did Sarah Palin publicly announce she was meeting Lady Thatcher?

A: I don't know, but I heard here that she did.

Q: Did she, in fact, meet Lady Thatcher?

A: I don't know, but I heard here that she did not.

Q: So, what's real and what's spin? (Two for the price of one).

A: I don't know, and neither do you.

QUOTE
Well, I'll gladly go on record as saying she's nuts, and I dispute the assertion I'm more stupid than she is.


I said IF ONE OF HER STAFF said that. Are you on her staff? Any fool on the street can say anything he likes. A politician has to be careful what he says. That is why I said it was stupid. It has nothing to do with the accuracy of the statement. But possibly I gave her too much credit for being a politician, let along her "staff", which is no doubt reduced to changing her diapers these days.

QUOTE
you don't have any idea about how wide the consensus is on that matter on this side of the Atlantic


Is it logical, Mr. Spock, either that I don't have any idea, or that you know beyond a shadow of a doubt? You come off as though you know everything about not only that side, but this one as well.
I admit freely and with no shame whatsoever that I know very little about what people think on that side, and care even less, which I'm confident is the consensus on this side. Just wake us up if the Germans get all blitzkriegy again, and we'll deal with it (again).
Artemis
I wrote Palin off years ago as too superficial to be good at much of anything, but I bet she would've taken out more Nazis than the average Belgian.
Tibro
I'd take you up on that bet, but the circumstances for verification would seem a bit unpleasant. In the extreme. Can we substitute neo-Nazis for the historical ones?
sixela
QUOTE(Artemis @ Jun 15 2011, 04:09 AM) *

I wrote Palin off years ago as too superficial to be good at much of anything, but I bet she would've taken out more Nazis than the average Belgian.

The Belgian resistance usually hurt the Nazis by sabotaging trains, not "taking out Nazis". As far as the war effort was concerned, that was also a lot smarter, only not hype-friendly. Well, they did kill 600 Germans that were travelling on one of those trains at one time, but that required more than a modicum of intelligence.

And sometimes they did incredibly stupid things, like killing the brother of Leon Degrelle even though he'd never hurt a fly, just because his brother was evil (and just because he was an easy target, completely irrelevant and thus unprotected, and never having hurt a fly and completely unaware that he could be a target).

Completely ineffective except at enticing the looney bins in the collaboration to shoot some other people. Now that would've been something for Palin: doing something that would appear superficially to make sense but without doing your homework.
Stroller
QUOTE(sixela @ Jun 14 2011, 12:28 PM) *

Ask yourself these questions:


QUOTE
-Did Sarah Palin publicly announce she was meeting Lady Thatcher?

June 7th, Business insider - “We hope to be able to visit soon. I’d like to meet with Margaret Thatcher.”

June 14th, LA Times - "I am going to Sudan in July and hope to stop in England on the way. I am just hoping Mrs. Thatcher is well enough to see me as I so admire her," Palin told Britain's Sunday Times earlier this month in an article titled "Reloaded and on a Mrs. T mission: the Palins are coming to Britain!"

I can't find that she confirmed a meeting, only expressed an interest.


QUOTE
-Did she, in fact, meet Lady Thatcher?

It's not been reported. I have read that Thatcher rarely confirms meetings these days to due to her dementia.

QUOTE
So, what's real and what's spin?

The only real thing I see is Palin promoting her brand & trying to keep in the headlines. The media circus that surrounds her reminds me of P.T. Barnum "I don't care what they say about me as long as they spell my name right".
Artemis
QUOTE
The Belgian resistance usually hurt the Nazis by sabotaging trains, not "taking out Nazis"


Palin could do that just by baiting a bus full of chasing reporters onto a RR crossing at the right moment.
Phoenix
Q: What's the difference between Sarah Palin's mouth and her vagina?

A: Not everything that comes out of her vagina is retarded.
Donnie Darko
QUOTE(Artemis @ Jun 15 2011, 12:55 PM) *

QUOTE
The Belgian resistance usually hurt the Nazis by sabotaging trains, not "taking out Nazis"


Palin could do that just by baiting a bus full of chasing reporters onto a RR crossing at the right moment.


Ha. I can't stand her, but the symbiotic relationship of parasitism between her and the press is amusing. Obviously that's why she got that mediocre slice of pizza with The Donald at Famiglia's, because he is the master of getting the press to wait with baited breath for every word he says, and she wants to be his apprentice.
Artemis
QUOTE
baited breath


With ripe catfish bait. Would that it were bated instead. harhar.gif

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bated
Donnie Darko
Sixela is rubbing off on you!

Thanks for the correction though, don't want to sound like an idiot. Next I'll be swapping their, they're and there…
Provenance
To air is human.
G&C
QUOTE(Donnie Darko @ Jun 15 2011, 01:55 PM) *

Next I'll be swapping their, they're and there…

Please, don't.

I have a hard enough time with that at another forum I frequent…
Tibro
QUOTE(Provenance @ Jun 15 2011, 11:37 PM) *

To heir is human.

The sins of the father shall be visited upon the son.
Donnie Darko
QUOTE(Provenance @ Jun 15 2011, 05:37 PM) *

To air is human.


I must be very human then, given the amount of flatulence I'm capable of.
hobgoblin
QUOTE(Artemis @ Jun 15 2011, 03:43 AM) *
A politician has to be careful what he says.
Over here politicians insult each other all the time. Prime Minister John Major callled Tony Blair (then leader of the opposition) "a dimwit". Tony Banks MP likened Margaret Thatcher to a "sex starved boa constrictor". Health Minister Simon Burns called the Speaker of the House of Commons "a stupid, sanctimonoius dwarf". Calling someone "nuts" is pretty tame really. Its not as if it costs politicians votes for doing this and they're not likely to be sued as a result either, so why not?
Artemis
Well I didn't know that. I concede. I like that way better.
Donnie Darko
Yeah, I respect the UK politicians for saying what they mean, and the UK population tends to be pretty irreverent to the politicians also. I watched a recent episode of Top Gear (a BBC car show that is amazing and hilarious if you haven't seen it, probably the best thing on TV), and they invited the UK transportation minister onto the show, who is responsible for all the crazy tolls you have to pay to drive in London and the low speed limits and bizarre driving rules, and he was roundly booed by the entire audience and repeatedly bashed by the host Jeremy Clarkson. He also lashed out at the audience in a way you'd never see in the US. They probably all went out for a beer afterwards.
hobgoblin
Most politicians are self-serving lowlife pretending to be community-spirited idealists (although I have met a few decent ones). Why treat them any differently?
Provenance
Why subject anyone to name calling?
hobgoblin
QUOTE(Provenance @ Jun 16 2011, 09:44 PM) *

Why subject anyone to name calling?
It lets them know what you think of them. Surely its better that they know?
Provenance
If they're like me, they don't care.

Perhaps more on point, reducing political discourse to playground-style name calling or supposedly witty "zingers" adds nothing to the debate. It's arguable that politicians are already aware that there are people in other parties or on other sides of an issue who don't care for them. All that the idiot/nut/bad person remarks accomplish is to further contribute to the intellectual dullness that surrounds the public process of resolving complex policy issues.
Donnie Darko
Perhaps there could be a middle ground between the honest UK style of verbal abuse, and our own political style of dishonesty and rhetorical phoneyness.

What I will credit to the UK system is that it they at least seem passionate and relatively involved in their politics, in spite of the name calling, and they don't seem to treat their electorate like sub-human imbeciles by trying to reduce complex problems into black and white vapid political sound bites: "drill baby drill", "out of my cold dead hands", "death panels want to pull the plug on grandma", "wanted dead or alive", "wall street versus main street", "Obamacare is socialism"…. these are slogans for feeble minded people who watch too many movies, not thinking adults who are interested in ideas and not just Liberal vs Conservative.

Of course that's just my inexperienced perception of a foreign country, I could be wrong.
hobgoblin
QUOTE(Provenance @ Jun 16 2011, 10:58 PM) *

If they're like me, they don't care.
You're not relying on public opinion to ensure the continuation of your career. Politicians do care what people think of them and what is reported about what others think of them.

Sarah Palin's camp is livid about her being called 'nuts', even to the point of claiming that Thatcher could not possibly have thought such a thing about Sarah Palin. They obviously care, which is most likely part of the reason it was said; to send her a warning shot about her presumptious attempt to use someone else's influence to further her career. I doubt she'll be bothering Margaret Thatcher ever again.

I was never a fan of Margaret Thatcher (to put it mildly) but I do admire her direct approach to things. Why pussy-foot around, and pretend to be nice, trying to avoid offending to someone you have no time for, when a boot to the crotch gets the job done without wasting any unecessary time and energy? At least then the message is clear and is more difficult to twist and manipulate. At least people know here they stand with that.
Provenance
You're right, I don't rely on public opinion for my employment. Which is just as well since such a situation would last about as long as the half-life of certain transuranic elements.

My point remains, it is possible to clearly, distinctly and unmistakably make a point without resorting to name calling.

As for Ms. Palin, I'm surprised that Lady Thatcher's (or her assistant's) reaction was not a simple, Who?
Artemis
http://www.cnbc.com/id/43603512
Jaded Prole
I could certainly think of names to call Reagan but suffice it to say I don't see anything there worthy of commemoration.
G&C
Best Actor in a Presidential role?
Donnie Darko
What's funny is how Reagan is the Republican Jesus. He raised taxes more times than Obama and also bombed Libya, two actions that would amount to heresy among conservatives today. People just invent whatever hero they like and then slap it onto a person who often doesn't fit many of those characteristics. That's what the right wing has done with Reagan, and that's also a big reason why some on the left are now disappointed with Obama.
Tibro
I hate Reagan.

Obama is no Reagan.
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