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The Fée Verte Absinthe Forum - The Oldest, Largest, Most Authoritative Absinthe Forum. > The Monkey Hole > The Cellar
Jaded Prole
Only the experts know for sure?
Kirk
That's why I like good tasting wines that are cheap.
Jack Batemaster
Tous les experts d'absinthe sont ici
Jay
QUOTE(Jaded Prole @ May 15 2012, 12:02 PM) *

Only the experts know for sure?

What a fascinating story about the high-end wine world and human psychology that turned out to be.
Artemis
Click to view attachment
I've been having this in my graphic upload stash for eight years. I was going to Photoshop it to make it about absinthe and never got around to it.

The two experts in the middle have a disagreement about some overpriced swill and it's about to be settled by M. Henri-Henri to the embarrassment of the expert with the beard, who spends the rest of the evening red-faced. M. Henri-Henri refers to a certain vintage as "thin and bitter, like la mee-zair" (the poverty-stricken"). Our hero, to the far left, stays out of it. He's only there for the buzz.

I've forgotten the name of the comic. It's probably by Gilbert Shelton.

QUOTE
There were bottles of cheap Napa Valley wine markered with the names of old Bordeaux wines they were apparently intended to impersonate, and there were more bottles soaking in the kitchen sink, their labels ready to be removed.

Carlo Rossi, the crown and scepter are yours. I also remember a movie, but not the name of it, in which a "rare vintage" is faked, the secret ingredient being dirt.
Provenance
It looks a little like Shelton's work, particularly the noses and the expression on the bearded expert's face. Perhaps it was one his earlier cartoons.
Artemis
It's from the early 70s (at least the comic book in which it appeared was, I'm not sure about the strip itself, if it originally appeared elsewhere). I don't have access to the comic book right now, just the scan, otherwise I could have identified it definitively. I spent a lot of time researching it yesterday and came up empty, but you're right about the noses; that's why I think it's the work of Shelton - the nose of the bearded expert is almost the same nose as Freewheeling Franklin's. That and the graphic style is more like Shelton's than any of the other suspects who came to mind.
Donnie Darko
The wine deception is the Placebo effect. If I pretend to be an acupuncturist and stick needles into you randomly, you have a 45% chance of recovering from back pain. If, however, a professionally trained acupuncturist does it, you have a the same 45% chance of recovering, no better than my sham intervention. Meanwhile if a doctor sees you for five minutes, just gives you a painkiller and sends you on your way, you only have a 27% chance of recovering from the back pain.

Wishful thinking combined with ceremony has an infinite power to deceive.
Tibro
Are those real figures from real studies, or anecdotal estimates? I'd like to repeat them if actual.
Kirk
The largest supplier of raw material to the jewelery manufacturing industry sent me a fake platinum ring, stamped "platinum" and marked with their mark. When I complained they replaced it. When I told them I was uncomfortable with the excuse I was given they said they do not feel comfortable dealing with customers who are not comfortable with them and offered to strike my name from the list.
sbmac
Fuck 'em. Anyone with honorable intentions and a molecule of professionalism would have understood completely, listened to you, validated your concerns, and spent as much time with you as you needed. If they cared about honor and integrity, they would have been concerned about image and reputation, no matter how large or small the buyer.

It's good you found this out without getting hurt, and I'm sure there are suppliers out there with better
business sense. Were you speaking to someone in management? Also, how did that ring slip by them… perhaps it didn't.
sbmac
BTW Mr. Darko, you nailed that one. I'm in PT for the injury I sustained in Nov's car accident, and the emotional component is enormous in recovery… At LEAST as important as the treatment itself.
Kirk
The other suppliers buy from my supplier. It was an offer to black ball me from the industry.
sbmac
The makers of blablahcaster guitars took an attitude like that with me once, when I complained that they weren't supporting the customers well-enough with their warranty process. I dropped them like a hot rock, because I have other manufacturers I work with who are top-notch in this area, and I refuse to be dicked with by assholes who haven't earned the right to be that arrogant. It sounds like you don't have that luxury. Big companies can behave like this. It sucks.
Kirk
If I could prove they did it with the express intention of defrauding me they would be subject to a $500 fine and I would be looking for 3rd tier material suppliers. It practically took an act of congress to approve my account with them in the first place.
Donnie Darko
QUOTE(Tibro @ May 28 2012, 01:32 AM) *

Are those real figures from real studies, or anecdotal estimates? I'd like to repeat them if actual.


Oh sorry I didn't see your post till now.
Here is the study to which I was referring:
http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.as…rticleid=413107

Note that there are numerous other studies showing similar results with sham vs real vs traditional therapy sans ceremony. I've confronted professional acupuncturists about this, and they say that the sham guys accidentally put some of the needles in the "right" places, and that part of the therapy is the time given, ambience of the office and the ceremony involved, and that all these combine to help the patient. I would agree, but then when I say "so why use the needles at all?" and they revert to saying the stuff about how its based on ancient science with Chi meridians that of course cannot be tested. In other words, it's a rigged discussion from the get-go.

The overall point is that it doesn't matter where you stick the needles. Having someone pay lengthy attention to you who gives the impression of being a "healer", whether supernatural or natural, has its own therapeutic effect, regardless of the treatment.

Likewise, tell somebody some old-ass Carlo Rossi is a '21 Chateau Yquem and if they're in the right mood and it's dressed up correctly, they'll taste what you tell them to taste. See the Penn & Teller episode of their fake 4 star restaurant that only used a microwave, a toaster and ingredients you could buy at a convenience store for more amusement…
Tibro
Wait a minute. They used a blow-torch, too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9J1b3MqiX8
Tibro
Apparently, there's a large cache of drawings being attributed to Francis Bacon that have been stirring up some controversy.

The debate at Courtauld Institute of Art in London mentioned in the article never took place. The experts who are questioning the authenticity of the drawings were threatened with lawsuits and decided against discussing the matter in a public forum. Seems it will now be the judiciary system which will render judgment on the authenticity of works of art. 600 original drawings by Bacon would be an extremely valuable collection. The opinions of experts outside of a legal ruling might taint that value.
Kirk
I'd rather have these, anyway.
Tibro
Rudy Kurniawan gets 10 years.
Jaded Prole
for fooling the "experts" and playing on the egos of the rich . . .
Kirk
There are so many good fakirs out there now that appraisers are refusing to put their name on an appraisal or be quoted in connection with any work that does not have rock solid provenance. Prices are dropping and buyers are skiddish. Maybe that is why certain living artists are fetching millions for work that they pay someone else to do.
I'd like to get a million cents for my impressions, a million dollars would be obscene.
Artemis
So that's why the wine con story came up at the French forum a couple of days ago. I had wondered why; it was (to me) an old story. I didn't read the story as posted over there (too many words, and in French to boot) - I didn't realize a sentence had just been issued. There was a comment by Marc that it was stunning that the guy had been able to remain so close to the "experts" for ten years. That had never surprised me in the least, and I thought about this thread, and even mentioned it, although I didn't search for it.
QUOTE
for fooling the "experts" and playing on the egos of the rich

For fraud, regardless of the other facts, but they are facts - the joke is on the snobs. I responded to Marc:
QUOTE
Que l'histoire a fait pour moi doit confirmer ma conviction qui plus que quelques "pointures du le milieu du vin" sont FULL OF CRAP!

Tibro
QUOTE
I'd like to get a million cents for my impressions

From the beginning you have made an immeasurable impression on me.

If I weren't worthless I'd pay you.
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