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Père Ubu
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http://content.yudu.com/Library/A1xcmx/The…resources/9.htm
Artemis
QUOTE
Guillame Petavy Meynier, international brand development manager for exports at Pernod Ricard, said defining the category is crucial to the development of absinthe as a quality product.

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Now we know why they've been putting out crap and calling it absinthe. They were waiting for someone to tell them what it is!
Artemis
Absinthe, I mean. They've pretty well mastered crap.
Provenance
QUOTE(Artemis @ Jul 10 2012, 05:23 PM) *

QUOTE
Guillame Petavy Meynier, international brand development manager for exports at Pernod Ricard, said defining the category is crucial to the development of absinthe as a quality product.

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QUOTE
A US legal definition would be a mistake. … large spirits companies may well influence the development of the definition in such a way as to disadvantage of small artisanal producers.


QUOTE
The best definition would be…you want to drink that French crazy juice and it's clearly marked as absinthe, then you're on your own. Don't blame us when rabid squirrels start rattling around your cranium.

Jay
QUOTE(Artemis @ Jul 11 2012, 01:23 AM) *

QUOTE
Guillame Petavy Meynier, international brand development manager for exports at Pernod Ricard, said defining the category is crucial to the development of absinthe as a quality product.

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Now we know why they've been putting out crap and calling it absinthe. They were waiting for someone to tell them what it is!


abs-cheers.gif heart.gif
Tibro
A legal definition. Phuck that. Shakespeare was right. Why don't they come up with a legal definition for a rose? Onacuz then we'd all be liable and triable for saying their shit stinks.

"My pharts smell like roses."

Mebbe it's the rabid skwirls.
hartsmar
Trying to prevent the worst shite to be labelled absinthe is a noble thought. Limiting "absinthe" to be made only in France and Switzerland is downright stupid.

Funny how Francois Guy is involved in this. I guess then that Fennel won't be on the list of ingredients in a "true absinthe".

Père Ubu
It appears that there is no geographical claims in the EU stuff, yet. But enough big profiteers seem to be pushing for it.

Make of it, what you will.
Tibro
As long as members of whatever industry and the gov't are the parties responsible for the labeling requirements of whatever product it may be, I'll remain skeptikal as to its aptness and necessity.

I know what absinthe is, and I know what it isn't. Legal definitions won't change that. Mostly likely they won't even agree with what I already know. And even if the legal definition did somehow run parallel to what I know, it still wouldn't mean anything about quality.

As with most things, I don't favor more government regulations. Especially not when the industry being regulated is their expert advisor. It's not the consumers' pocketbooks that vested interests care to protect. Remember, their job is to be the pickpocket.
Père Ubu
Agreed. Pickpokets with the muscle of thugish governments to aid them.
Tibro
Don't discount the importance of a naive and trusting public. A legal definition can never be a substitute for inquiry and close examination. In fact, it usually forestalls further investigation amongst the greater population. Interested parties bank on that effect.
Provenance
QUOTE(Tibro @ Jul 12 2012, 02:09 PM) *
Don't discount the importance of a naive and trusting public.

Empires have been built on them.
Artemis
QUOTE(Tibro @ Jul 12 2012, 10:09 PM) *
Don't discount the importance of a naive and trusting public. A legal definition can never be a substitute for inquiry and close examination. In fact, it usually forestalls further investigation amongst the greater population. Interested parties bank on that effect.

That's the most succinct post on the subject I've seen here, there, and everywhere.
Tibro
Listen to the wisdom of the rabid skwirls. Their message is terrible because true.

The veracious skwirls feed on fallacious fart-inflated gasbags.
Grim
QUOTE(Tibro @ Jul 12 2012, 11:22 AM) *

I know what absinthe is, and I know what it isn't. Legal definitions won't change that. Mostly likely they won't even agree with what I already know. And even if the legal definition did somehow run parallel to what I know, it still wouldn't mean anything about quality.

Beauteous. Absolutely. I agree 100%.
thegreenimp
They can can call it what they want, if it doesn't taste good, I'm not spending my money on it.
Tibro
Musta been talking about the good stuff:
QUOTE

So Absintheo would, were it not Absintheo call'd,
Retain that dear perfection which it owes
Without that title. Absintheo, doff thy name,
And for that name which is no part of thee
Take all myself.
Tibro
Well, you know how talk is:
QUOTE
The Rose was a local rival to his Globe Theatre and is reputed to have had less than effective sanitary arrangements. The story goes that this was a coy joke about the smell. This certainly has the whiff of folk etymology about it, but it might just be true.
Provenance
QUOTE(Tibro @ Jul 12 2012, 11:22 AM) *
As long as members of whatever industry and the gov't are the parties responsible for the labeling requirements of whatever product it may be, I'll remain skeptikal as to its aptness and necessity.
***
As with most things, I don't favor more government regulations. Especially not when the industry being regulated is their expert advisor. It's not the consumers' pocketbooks that vested interests care to protect. Remember, their job is to be the pickpocket.

QUOTE(Pan Buh @ Feb 10 2008, 05:25 AM) *
I still don't understand a reluctance to try and implement a legal definition, even if broad and perfunctory, that would at least eliminate the possibility of such things as black absinthe, sugar-containing absinthe and, my pet, undistilled, macerated A.a. in absinthe.
Steve
Oh snap!
Tibro
Blame it on the tujone.

Get enough and the world looks completely different.
Père Ubu
My answers to the polemic would have been similar to as quoted. With time I travel the path of understanding freedom, and slowly free my mind from the shackles of sheepdom. An anarchy of free people will root out the charlatans quite faster than the purchasable efforts of the corrupt leviathan that is a legislature.
Père Ubu
Swiss douchery:

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss_news/Abs…ml?cid=33327856

sleepy.gif poop.gif viking_emoticon.gif viking_emoticon.gif
Tibro
It's just lickerish tasting crap. Which is what most people call it anyway.
Jack Batemaster
C'est vraiment vrai.
Jay
QUOTE(Père Ubu @ Aug 16 2012, 06:21 PM) *

Thanks for the link. I'm genuinely surprised the Swiss would go after "fee verte," in particular, considering the vertes are likely to have originated in France and DEFINITELY built their reputation there. Where's that Swiss national pride?
Provenance
I kinda like the Swiss decision. It may make harder for the US to adopt a formal definition of absinthe since it could create harmonization issues.
Jay
You don't support a formal definition of absinthe in the United States?
Jack Batemaster
Est-ce qu'Alain Mousse est le problème ?
thegreenimp
QUOTE(Provenance @ Aug 16 2012, 05:05 PM) *

I kinda like the Swiss decision. It may make harder for the US to adopt a formal definition of absinthe since it could create harmonization issues.


Most can't carry a tune, much less a harmony.

I'd be more impressed by better product, rather than who owns the naming rights.
Patlow
#jaded
Provenance
QUOTE(Jay @ Aug 16 2012, 02:18 PM) *
You don't support a formal definition of absinthe in the United States?

Nope. There's posts somewhere on here explaining why but the short version is I think a legal definition would only help the business interests that get it through the regulatory system while limiting competition. I don't give a crap about (actually I'm contemptuous of) the notion of protecting the newly good name of absinthe from crapsinths. If someone drinks Windexsinth because they didn't do a little basic research, that's their problem. Unless the like it in which case they should be able to enjoy it without undue interference. After all, there's only one definition of good absinthe, absinthe you like.

What I do support is lifting the absurdly low American t-jone limits. Now that would benefit drinkers irrespective of their tastes.
Provenance
QUOTE(thegreenimp @ Aug 16 2012, 03:38 PM) *
Most can't carry a tune, much less a harmony.

I would prove you wrong on that -- if I could.
Steve
QUOTE(thegreenimp @ Aug 16 2012, 04:38 PM) *

I'd be more impressed by better product, rather than who owns the naming rights.

It's true there are a lot of boring les bleues which are indistinguishable from each other, but to my taste there are 3 or 4 really superb absinthes being produced in the VdT which are among my top picks.
Jay
Correct me if I'm wrong Provenance, but based on the short version of the argument you mentioned, it sounds to me like the concern is that the "business interests" you cited might manipulate the definition of absinthe to serve their own economic and/or corporate interests, to the detriment of (potentially legitimate) competition. But if you aren't concerned about protecting the name of absinthe from the crapsinths, then it wouldn't matter much if those business interests managed to pull that off. The legitimate competition making genuine absinthe could market their product under a different name, or modified version (since they're not able to market it as simply "absinthe" right now anyway without the required compound of "superiore" or something similar). Hell, that scenario even offers a benefit, in that if the competition doesn't use the name "absinthe", they may not be held to the current t-jone restrictions, or even be tested for it at all. (Side note: does anyone happen to know if other "herbal liqueurs" and such are tested for t-jone or any other elements considered to be harmful?)

Still, that's not how I'd like to see it played out. Absinthe shouldn't have to disguise itself. There may be a risk in trying to have some government body form a legal definition, but for the overall health of the category I think it's worth that risk. Absinthe is hovering on obscurity even after all the talk and controversy of tripped ballz and t-jone and cocktail revivals, and establishing it once again as simply being an enjoyable liquor by setting some very basic standards could set the foundation for its future growth. The newfound "credibility" of such an event might even inspire some action on reducing or removing the limits on t-jone in time.

As tasty as the "non COs" are, the obvious concerns about the manufacture and acquisition/distribution of those products have me hoping for more choices and overall higher-quality on the liquor store shelves.

And I agree, Steve, on both counts.
Tibro
Thuj0ne measurements are required for potables containing Artemisia absinthium, irregardless of the class. Put it in the whiskey recipe you submit and it will be tested.

How many of the noble distillers making artisanal absinthe today do you think are hedging on being bought by a major label tomorrow? I'd put money on at least one. The longer the class remains obscure the longer there will be quality choices on the liquor store shelves. Bet on it.
Bruno Rygseck
QUOTE(Tibro @ Aug 16 2012, 11:21 PM) *

It's just lickerish tasting crap. Which is what most people call it anyway.

So, just label it boisson spiritueuse au gout de reglisse ou de merdre.
Tibro
I'd copyright that if I were you.
Provenance
QUOTE(Jay @ Aug 17 2012, 11:04 AM) *
it sounds to me like the concern is that the "business interests" you cited might manipulate the definition of absinthe to serve their own economic and/or corporate interests, to the detriment of (potentially legitimate) competition.

There is no other reason why business interest would otherwise invest the money to try and get the changed definition. The Swiss situation, although different from the US, is the perfect illustration. The only reason why VdT distillers want the change is to force everyone else out of the absinthe market, at least in Switzerland although they could probably market their absinthe under a different designation.

QUOTE
it wouldn't matter much if those business interests managed to pull that off.

It would because it hurts other producers. Since the only point of a restriction in definition to force other producers either out of the market or into an inferior competitive position, such as making it harder to get shelf space in stores.

So, currently we have a situation where anyone can market a spirit called absinthe (if it can meet already asinine regulatory requirements). Consumers decide which can stay on the shelf and which don't.

Proposals is to further restrict what can be sold as abinsthe only serve to further limit consumer choice. What's the benefit in that? [Pernod Ricard, please feel free to respond either on the Bored or by PM]

QUOTE
The legitimate competition making genuine absinthe could market their product under a different name

Which would make it harder to get shelf space and stay on the market.

QUOTE
or modified version

Why should consumers have to settle for absinthe which has been modified to meet the interests of large producers? Instead, I would suggest that, the Syndicate™ modify their products to make them better instead of seeking to gain market share by reducing competition.

QUOTE
that scenario even offers a benefit, in that if the competition doesn't use the name "absinthe", they may not be held to the current t-jone restrictions, or even be tested for it at all.

The US thuojone limit applies to spirits for human consumption, not just absinthe. Otherwise, we would already see such herbal beverages on the market.

QUOTE
(Side note: does anyone happen to know if other "herbal liqueurs" and such are tested for t-jone or any other elements considered to be harmful?)


That's a good question but let me substitute Prole's more expansive question instead,
QUOTE(Jaded Prole @ Aug 14 2012, 12:32 PM) *

Do they count for sausage


QUOTE
Absinthe is hovering on obscurity even after all the talk

I think the reason for that has less to do with regulations and definitions that there is simply limited modern interest, particularly in the US for anise-based spirits. There are some great araks on the market, but they sell only in limited quantities and then mostly as a heritage spirit to relatively small communities.
Jack Batemaster
QUOTE(Sixer @ Aug 17 2012, 12:46 PM) *

QUOTE(Pruno Rucksack @ Aug 16 2012, 11:21 PM) *

So, just label it boisson spiritueuse au gout de reglisse ou de merdre.

de la boisson spiritueuse qui goûte comme de la réglisse noire et de la merde™
Jay
QUOTE(Provenance @ Aug 17 2012, 08:01 PM) *

QUOTE
or modified version

Why should consumers have to settle for absinthe which has been modified to meet the interests of large producers?


Sorry for the confusion. I meant modified version of only the name/label of "absinthe", not a modification of the contents of the product itself.

QUOTE

That's a good question but let me substitute Prole's more expansive question instead,
QUOTE(Jaded Prole @ Aug 14 2012, 12:32 PM) *

Do they count for sausage


I can't imagine that the lobbyists for Tyson and the rest would allow that to happen, what with all the pork in politics.

QUOTE
Absinthe is hovering on obscurity even after all the talk

I think the reason for that has less to do with regulations and definitions that there is simply limited modern interest, particularly in the US for anise-based spirits.

I agree. My thought was that perhaps if absinthe was made an official, "legitimate" category of liquor with only quality products on the shelves, in time more and more consumers would give it a try and many of them might develop a taste for it. Then again, as you mentioned there are other quality anise-based spirits on the shelves now, and they're a small niche as well, so perhaps that cultural divide of palates is too great to bridge.
Tibro
QUOTE
an official, "legitimate" category of liquor with only quality products on the shelves

Class definitions do not eliminate inferior products from inclusion in the class. Just as lack of a definition does not exclude quality products from gaining shelf space.
Jay
A correct legal definition would eliminate invalid (not necessarily inferior) product. There may be some bad absinthes on the shelves after the implementation of a such a definition, but not any non-absinthes (theoretically).

The lack of a definition, however, could indeed contribute to preventing a quality absinthe from finding a place on the shelf. For many stores, they only have the room to stock one or two absinthes, and if the proprietors aren't familiar with the category, they could (and often do) make poor choices.
Tibro
Too many proprietors are the last to know what they're stocking on their shelves. The distributors are the greater problem, if I understand the model korrectly.
Esseintes
As soon as there is a legal definition the IGP is of no importance out of Switzerland. However you can't keep established businesses away from what they are legally doing since years. So various categories (like with Gin) have to be defined. As producer of a superiour product you're free to display this and the other categories on your product, so consumers at least are informed about what they are drinking. At the moment it's most important to oppose against this ridicules decision. In Bruxelles everything seems to be slow, but maybe not as slow as in Bern.
Jaded Prole
QUOTE
The lack of a definition, however, could indeed contribute to preventing a quality absinthe from finding a place on the shelf. For many stores, they only have the room to stock one or two absinthes, and if the proprietors aren't familiar with the category, they could (and often do) make poor choices.


Quality speaks for itself. As for shelf space in stores, that, as Provenance pointed out, has more to do with a rigged distribution system. Both that and legal definitions are written largely by and for the biggest producers who generally do not make the finest quality products. Better to loosen up the legal limitations and the know-nothing, paranoid micromanagement. Until then, the best will not be on any store shelves.
thegreenimp
QUOTE(Steve @ Aug 17 2012, 12:58 PM) *

QUOTE(thegreenimp @ Aug 16 2012, 04:38 PM) *

I'd be more impressed by better product, rather than who owns the naming rights.

It's true there are a lot of boring les bleues which are indistinguishable from each other, but to my taste there are 3 or 4 really superb absinthes being produced in the VdT which are among my top picks.


Yes, I'd agree with that, it seems to be the same world wide.



Artemis
All I know is I posted the news at the French forum (because that's what I do, stir up hatred and discontent) and it resulted in a storm of cursing emoticons, maps of Europe, a video lesson on Swiss geography, etc. It was all very colorful.
http://www.museeabsinthe.com/forums/index....c=2271&st=0
thegreenimp
Funny how a tiny group of drunks, can splinter off into an even tinier group of drunks, and so on, and so, and so on…


The absinthe iMaginenot line?
Click to view attachment
Artemis
Good one.

Germans: "Line? We don't need no stinking line!"
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