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The Fée Verte Absinthe Forum - The Oldest, Largest, Most Authoritative Absinthe Forum. > Absinthe & Absinthiana > Vintage Absinthe
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Jay
For anyone interested, here are a few pics from a recent cache "discovered" in a hotel wine cellar that supposedly has been locked up tight since the 1940s. The Oxygenee is reported as being from 1885, and the Bazinet from 1895, although I don't know how those dates were arrived at. (Btw, I have no affiliation with the seller, and am only posting these pics for those who enjoy such historical curiosities.)

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Père Ubu
Troublemaker. wink.gif

Kidding aside, those are some nice pics. The oxygene bottle seems to have a good wax seal.
Artemis
The labels are in better shape than I thought. But then those are much better pictures than the small one I saw (the one that didn't exist, depending upon whom you want to believe). The bottle with no label supposedly also contains Bazinet Jeune.
Jay
Hey man, I took my toys home and brought them here precisely to avoid that label. abs-cheers.gif

The fellow selling them seems to have a good idea of their worth, although I didn't recall hearing about Oxygenee bottles going for as high as $7,000. He's not asking that much, but he hasn't named a price, either. I'd have considered selling a third kidney to grab one of the Bazinets, as he seems to be hovering in the $2k range for those, except that the reviews I've read of it have not been encouraging.
Artemis
I wasn't impressed with Bazinet from the same period (roughly - within a decade I think). It wasn't terrible, but nothing special. I'm pretty sure there are reviews of it here or at Hartsmar's place. I seem to remember Oxy liked it better than most others did. The Oxygenee that Oscar generously offered in Allentown a couple of years ago was a camphor bomb, almost undrinkable. My guess is that this was due to unfortunate degradation of roadside fennel. I wouldn't have thought that Cusenier had bought into a modern theory I read somewhere that the variety of fennel isn't important. Maybe young Cusenier was shopping for groceries the day that batch was macerated and Alphonse the oppressed herb man (no doubt a communist), seeing an opportunity to put it to the man, pissed in the soup, so to speak.
Jay
QUOTE(Artemis @ Aug 13 2012, 08:47 PM) *

I wouldn't have thought that Cusenier had bought into a modern theory I read somewhere that the variety of fennel isn't important.

I'm glad you brought that up, because I believe we read that "modern theory" in the same place, and it made me wonder. When an absinthe distiller does an A/B test with the same absinthe, one with Florence fennel and one with sweet/common fennel, and says the difference was insignificant to the point of being negligible, it does give me pause. I take it you're not sold on that conclusion?

(Oh, and I did find your review Friday of Bazinet, and that of a couple others, right here on this very site.)
Artemis
If you search here on Bazinet, you'll find a lot more remarks about it by people who tasted it but didn't do reviews. Possibly it was made and marketed as a lighter absinthe, but the relative lack of essential oils in such an absinthe means it won't provide the flavor wallop after a hundred years that Pernod (for example) does.

As to the fennel, don't get too caught up in the names (Florence, sweet, common etc.). Even if you think you know the name of what you have, it's important to know whether it was correctly labelled. You might not know for sure unless you grew it, and maybe not even then. There's a profound and obvious difference between bitter fennel and sweet fennel. It's entirely possible to discern little difference among two or three fennels that are all in fact (not just in name) "sweet" fennel; I wouldn't argue with that. But to carry it so far as it doesn't matter, that's how camphor bombs are made.
Tibro
Tansy might do the trick as well.

Would this "moderne theory" be accessible for scrutiny by the general public anywhere?
Jay
PM sent. I'm not sure what the accepted practice is of quoting the text from posts on other forums, so I won't do that here, but this is the link for anyone interested: http://wormwoodsociety.org/forums/index.ph…0&start=120
Artemis
Grim said he sinked Bazinet so hard the toilet water gurgled.
Grim
Hahahahah… you remember that conversation!

Ah hell, re: Bazinet, I'd still give it another whirl.

One thing I've learned is preban bottles are like pretty girls; most of them disappoint you (whether you're willing to admit it or not), but every now and then… wow.

And they're expensive too.
Jay
Reading through the various impressions of the Bazinet as sampled by members here a few years ago, the adjective "woody" kept cropping up, and it really sounds like that particular bottle was marred by improper storage. It would be interesting to have the same folks try another sample to see, but as Grim mentioned, it's bottle is cost-prohibitive.

That being said, I've been communicating with the person with these bottles, and he's considering opening them and making samples available. I'll drop another line in here if that's the case.
Artemis
QUOTE
Hahahahah… you remember that conversation!


No, I ran across it while I was searching for quotes for the Drop Dead Fred Thread. Found a picture of a burlap-covered Hessian ball, too. The whole thread with your remark about the Bazinet, as well as the ball discussion (maybe it was the same thread, even) went down during a time I wasn't here and I saw it for the first time only over the weekend. I'm continually surprised by the sheer quantity of stuff I'm seeing for the first time when looking for Fred quotes. But not by the quality.
Jaded Prole
If I had the dough to blow I'd rather have a sample of that Premier Fils that was recently discovered. I had a couple of tastes of that Oxygenee Oscar obtained and it was reminiscent of something that came out of a dark basement in Poland.
Artemis
If money were no object, I would overpay by a disgusting margin, then set the bottles in a field at a hundred yards and see what a modern .17 magnum would do them, videotape the whole event and donate the tape to an absinthe museum for posteriority. Then drink some Lush Life or Texas Green and smile like a possum eating briars.
Kirk
I'm raising a glass of a very provocative Suisse Verte right now to that.
thegreenimp
QUOTE(Grim @ Aug 13 2012, 07:09 PM) *
One thing I've learned is preban bottles are like pretty girls; most of them disappoint you (whether you're willing to admit it or not), but every now and then… wow.

And they're expensive too.



That's why I stay within my narrow focus, a sixty six buck bottle of 40s Herbsaint I recently opened, has made me happier than any pre-ban I've tasted.

Maybe it's time to take up golf.

sbmac
I'll raise a glass with you on that one Artemis.
Jay
QUOTE(thegreenimp @ Aug 14 2012, 01:43 AM) *

That's why I stay within my narrow focus, a sixty six buck bottle of 40s Herbsaint I recently opened, has made me happier than any pre-ban I've tasted.

Jesus damn it, I need to start shopping wherever the hell it is you shop.
thegreenimp
My last three finds were exceptionally lucky, we'll all be decimated by a giant meteor now, or when a bottle of Milky-Way finally turns up.
G&C
I found one!

Click to view attachment
Père Ubu
QUOTE(Artemis @ Aug 13 2012, 07:53 PM) *

If money were no object, I would overpay by a disgusting margin, then set the bottles in a field at a hundred yards and see what .45ACP incendiary bullets would do them, videotape the whole event and donate the tape to an absinthe museum for posteriority. Then drink some Lush Life or Texas Green and smile like a possum eating briars.
Fixed for my use. abs-cheers.gif abs-cheers.gif

Tibro
QUOTE(thegreenimp @ Aug 14 2012, 05:00 AM) *

My last three finds were a premium paid on years of paying dues.

Not hard to believe.
Jack Batemaster
Héhé. Tu as dit «dur»
Tibro
Knot hard, Mr. Water-logged frog.
Provenance
QUOTE(Kirk @ Aug 13 2012, 05:08 PM) *

I'm raising a glass of a very provocative Suisse Verte right now to that.

I know of a fine Suisse Verte but all it provoked me to do was drink more of it.
Artemis
From the French forum today:
QUOTE
Je ne sais pas ce qu'il se dit sur Wormwood Society vu que le site est inaccessible , mais je sais que c'est Brian Robinson qui s'occupe maintenant de vendre ces bouteilles , elles font parties d'un lot de 200 bouteilles des années 1900 de vins , spiritueux et liqueurs venant de la cave d'un hôtel .
Il a publié une pré liste sur sa page face-book (vous pouvez la consulter son profil est ouvert au public ) il y a des bouteilles qui risquent de grimper très haut ....

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=101...e=1&theater

Jay
The WS forum finally came back online a little while ago, and I've already voiced my opinion that they should apologize to both Phoenix and Artemis, in light of that link proving that they were attempting to shut down the competition for these bottles by removing the original thread. I'm neither surprised nor angry at the attempt to secure the bottles (at best, I could have afforded a couple of samples myself), but taking pains to do that while pretending as if that wasn't the case and simultaneously jumping all over the folks who called them out on it is simply pathetic. Honestly, I'm embarrassed for anyone who was involved with such duplicity.
Tibro
C'mon, they're a not-for-profit, educational resource that can't possibly compete with the colossal, greed-feeding Oxy's of the old booze world. A little skullduggery and coat-throat tactics is to be expected to even the playing field.

Public apologies? I'd like to be there for that.
R3al Caravano
Isn't that getting boiler-plate at this point.
Jaded Prole
QUOTE
I've already voiced my opinion that they should apologize to both Phoenix and Artemis, in light of that link proving that they were attempting to shut down the competition for these bottles by removing the original thread.


Jay may be on the road to joining the illustrious list of the banned.
Kirk
I thought he wasn't a trouble maker?
Artemis
Depends on your definition of trouble maker.
Kirk
People who talk about what they think.
Jay
I've done my best to respect the hosts' preference in any forum I've visited and give the benefit of the doubt whenever possible, but when I see manipulation, rationalization, and blatant hypocrisy all at once, one way or another involving almost every mod of a single forum within one single thread, it's almost like seeing a sign from an angry karmic entity; I can no longer just ignore the crap and focus on how shiny the porcelain is.

It's just alcohol and the internet, so I'm not too worried with it all, but it's still disappointing.
Jaded Prole
Welcome to the free world.
Tibro
Tuff titty, Jay. Someone pays the bills for that shiny porcelain.
Artemis
QUOTE(Jay @ Aug 15 2012, 05:55 PM) *
I've done my best to respect the hosts' preference in any forum I've visited and give the benefit of the doubt whenever possible, but when I see manipulation, rationalization, and blatant hypocrisy all at once, one way or another involving almost every mod of a single forum within one single thread, it's almost like seeing a sign from an angry karmic entity; I can no longer just ignore the crap and focus on how shiny the porcelain is.

It's just alcohol and the internet, so I'm not too worried with it all, but it's still disappointing.


Don't be second-guessing yourself on this one. There's a church alongside a two-lane blacktop road in Arkansas. They have a small billboard by the road and I've seen quite a few amusing or thought provoking words on it. Once it was "This blood's for you". Another time, it was "That which you accept, you promote".
Provenance
QUOTE(Jay @ Aug 14 2012, 07:52 PM) *
I'm embarrassed for anyone who was involved with such duplicity.


Shhhhh…. They're watching

QUOTE
Shabba53
Last Active Today, 03:02 AM


Well, that and you've done nothing to be embarrassed about.
Artemis
QUOTE(Jay @ Aug 15 2012, 03:52 AM) *
The WS forum finally came back online a little while ago, and I've already voiced my opinion that they should apologize to both Phoenix and Artemis, in light of that link proving that they were attempting to shut down the competition for these bottles by removing the original thread. I'm neither surprised nor angry at the attempt to secure the bottles (at best, I could have afforded a couple of samples myself), but taking pains to do that while pretending as if that wasn't the case and simultaneously jumping all over the folks who called them out on it is simply pathetic. Honestly, I'm embarrassed for anyone who was involved with such duplicity.


For the record, here's what happened over there:

A first-time poster announced the find of a cache including some bottles of absinthe.

Comments followed, mostly along the lines of skepticism about people coming out of nowhere with something of that sort, and the propriety of announcing such a thing in a first-ever post. One or more admins were active in the discussion. I commented that the marques in question had proved to be disappointing to quite a few people who had tasted them.

The whole thread disappeared, and a new members-only thread was started by chief admin, explaining that the "only" reason the original thread was taken down was to avoid another PF White situation. "PF White" didn't register with me. I thought that maybe there was a con man known as PF White, active or suspected to be active in the matter, so I asked, who is PF White. I was told that it had to do with a bottle of Pernod Fils Blanche that came up for sale in the past. I then recalled (I think) that the bottle in question was actually labeled "White", apparently for the American market. So, PF White = Pernod Fils White. I also recalled the event, which was discussed at great length at WWS, and here. Essentially, a woman had come up with the bottle of PF White and WWS had negotiated with her to buy it. She sold it instead to a person who is a member here (and was a member there, at the time). This engendered some bad blood that obviously lingers to this day.

Back to the new thread at WWS. A member made a comment about a disappearing thread being one way to eliminate competition for an announced absinthe cache. He was accused by an admin of being uncool and invited to leave, which ultimately, he did. It was also explained by another admin that the primary concern was to keep potentially fraudulent sales off the forum, and in addition, to prevent bidding wars among members. In the same breath, an additional desire was expressed - to allow the advisory board at WWS to deal with such sellers, make the the purchase (making the purchase was not stated, but obviously implied by the following), and to make samples available to the membership at an agreeable price.

I pointed out that if there was a policy that such finds should not be announced on the board, but offered for sale to WWS, then so be it, but the poster who made the remark about stifling competition didn't deserve to be attacked, as stifling competition appeared to be not only the result, but the intent.

I was told by an admin that there was no such policy; that WWS simply isn't in the business of connecting sellers with buyers. People who didn't like it were invited to leave.

I pointed out that the original thread had been up for a while (it was a day or less, but a day can be a long time on the Internet) and it could have been shut down without debate, if the rule about selling and buying was the be-all and end-all of the matter.

A couple of admins then accused me of criticizing them for having a life outside the forum and not staying on top of the original thread. I pointed out that at least one admin had been ACTIVE in the original thread, but didn't shut it down.

I was invited to "fuck off".

Then there was a post or two bemoaning the controversy. I responded to the invitation to fuck off with the same, and made a remark about staying of out the kitchen if you can't take the heat. By this I meant that nobody was required to participate in the discussion, but people who saw fit to do so shouldn't be criticized. I pointed out that the way the thread was handled (killing the initial thread, giving contradictory reasons for doing so) would inevitably lead to controversy, absent a membership of people who don't think critically about what they're reading, but just go along.

I was accused by an admin of being a hard-ass, of setting up innocents for slaughter, of having paranoid delusions of subterfuge, of being part of a vocal minority that thrives on attention from creating pointless drama, etc. etc. and invited to go away. I decided that posting any more in the thread was a waste of time.

The discussion went on. Two or three people, notably Jay, continued to debate the admins along the same lines as I had.

It then came to public attention (outside of WWS forum - in my case from a post at the French forum) that Brian, an admin at WWS, was involved with the disposition of the liquor cache in question.

Jay suggested at WWS that an apology was due to me and the other member who was insulted and invited to leave.

Chief admin denied that any apology was due. The buyer of the bottle of Pernod Fils Blanche a couple of years ago was called an asshole and it was implied that he rooked the seller on that occasion. Another admin called him a sleazy low-balling fucktard.
Jay
Your dry-humored, detached post is hands down the best synopsis I've ever read about… well, about any damn think that I can think of. I genuinely laughed out loud at a couple of points, despite everything, and for that I salute you.

In other news, Patrick reported yet another bottle found (a ceramic bottle with Cusenier embossed on the bottom), but it appears that it may be a fruit liqueur rather than absinthe.

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Artemis
Thank you.
Cusenier made a lot of stuff other than absinthe, including "a complete range of spirits, liquors, wines and even syrups". At Ornans, they made kirsch. At Charenton, they made vermouth and cassis. In Paris, they made "spirits and liquors" and "various products of the lemonadery, such as punches, mixed toddies, syrups, juleps, sodas and other preparations which are consumed in various ways in the cafes: also made there for pharmacy and perfumery, are lemon balm water and cologne."

Sorry about the font - it's more work than it's worth trying to get the hoodoo out of text cut and pasted from word-processed documents. It's from an old text about Cusenier that I translated many years ago.


sbmac
I believe this is eau d'fuquetard.
Artemis
Good one.
Patlow
Indeed.
Tibro
Business.
As usual.

Mostly giving it.
Tibro
QUOTE
I was accused by an admin of being a hard-ass, of setting up innocents for slaughter, of having paranoid delusions of subterfuge, of being part of a vocal minority that thrives on attention from creating pointless drama, etc. etc.


As police sketches go it's not wholly inaccurate, and might even help keep some other dubious, if innocent in this particular instance, caricatures off the streets.
Jay
QUOTE(sbmac @ Aug 15 2012, 10:58 PM) *

I believe this is eau d'fuquetard.

It really not any more flattering in faux-French, is it? Ah well, such is life.
Provenance
QUOTE(Tibro @ Aug 15 2012, 09:23 PM) *
As police sketches go it's not wholly inaccurate, and might even help keep some other dubious, if innocent in this particular instance, caricatures off the streets.

But it does explain his popularity at LoucheFests.
Artemis
QUOTE(Tibro @ Aug 16 2012, 05:23 AM) *
QUOTE
I was accused by an admin of being a hard-ass, of setting up innocents for slaughter, of having paranoid delusions of subterfuge, of being part of a vocal minority that thrives on attention from creating pointless drama, etc. etc.


As police sketches go it's not wholly inaccurate, and might even help keep some other dubious, if innocent in this particular instance, caricatures off the streets.

But that raises the question, from where do police artists come? When Adolph Hitler failed out of art school, he decided upon dictating as a career path.
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