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delirium
Most of you probably know this Hemingway quote:

Got tight on absinthe last night. Did knife tricks.

I searched the web and it is attributed to the Frieze Magazine, where it is said that it's from a letter to Guy Hickok in 1931. I'm just wondering can this letter be found printed in some collection, or anywhere?

I checked from Google Books Ernest Hemingway's Selected Letters from 1917-1961 and found a few of which here is a couple mentions:

To Maxwell Perkins, January 1929 (p.293):
"Would you send Scott $100.00 I borrowed from him in North Philadelphia. I didn't want to draw it till after the dirst of the year to hold down my last years income figure.

Have bought fine 9 x 9 ft. insect proof tent with a sewed in ground cloth so we can camp out at the Marquesas where Walso caught the big tarpon if you want. There's lots of shooting if you like to shoot - got 9 snipe yesterday after I knocked off work - 20 a couple of days before - 15 before that. They are good with the Bordeaux. Have some pre-war absinthe but it makes too crazy dreams so am saving it for you and Waldo."

To Maxwell Perkins, Feb 1940 ( p.500)
"Dear Max:

Well here is your regular Sunday hangover letter. We won again at the pelota last night and stayed up till three a.m. So today will have to take Marty to the movies as a present for being drunk Saturday night I guess. Started out on absinthe, drank a bottle of good red wine with dinner, shifted to vodka in town before the pelota game and then battened it down with whiskeys and sodas unti 3. a.m. Feel good today. But not like working."



- - - -

…oh it seems to be picked from Barnaby Conrad's book. I wonder where he found that letter…
Artemis
Conrad didn't necessarily "find" the letter. He may have been quoting some source (which itself quoted all or part of the letter). Maybe that magazine did the same. It would seem possible that the letter in its entirety has never been published.
QUOTE
Most of you probably know this Hemingway quote:
Got tight on absinthe last night. Did knife tricks.

I'll bite.
That quote has always irritated me. When I first read it, I had to look up "tight". It has to be the stupidest word for drunk that I've ever seen. Hemingway probably didn't make it up, but in any case, he was a major league asshole.
Anybody who would find bull fighting worthy of anything but contempt is an asshole. I'd love to see a "matador" in a rodeo arena, no weapons, no extraneous bullshit, no interference from the rodeo clowns, when they let one of those bulls out of the gate. That "fight" would last about four seconds.
Apart from that, I'm not kidding in the least when I say that for me, references to absinthe in connection with that contemptible asshole go as far toward giving it a bad name as any of the yellow press in France that got it banned.
Oh, and he was vastly overrated as a writer, too.
Absomphe
Raramente se ha hablado más de la verdad.
thegreenimp
QUOTE(Artemis @ Aug 6 2014, 10:18 AM) *
Anybody who would find bull fighting worthy of anything but contempt is an asshole. I'd love to see a "matador" in a rodeo arena, no weapons, no extraneous bullshit, no interference from the rodeo clowns, when they let one of those bulls out of the gate. That "fight" would last about four seconds.


I'd pay for a front row seat, but I'd want the rest of matador's crew in that arena, so the bull could give them "the horns" too.


Artemis
Indeed. The bull would make short work of the whole crew.
Looking for validation, I mean I can't be the only one who thinks this way about Hemingway, I found this, and had to feel a little sorry for the man.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/p...de-2294619.html
But still,
QUOTE
The critic Max Eastman complained that his prose style had become the equivalent of "false hair on the chest".

There it is. That verbalizes what I've always thought about his writing.

Tibro
Interesting article. I'm no Hemingway fan, certainly not of the image of the man as it's come to me, and not especially of the writing. But I find the intersection of the two mesmerizing. In general. The intersection of the individual who happens to be an author or other creative type and the creative output of the person as an independent product free and clear of the creator. You know, like the personalities of accountants as cross-referenced with their ability to crunch numbers. But amongst creative types. Except, well, not as cause and effect, just correlation. If there is one. Creative types seem a more interesting subject to observe and ponder than accountant types. But maybe that's just me.

I've known a few creative types. Maybe some of their personalities and maybe some their creative output have been oversized among them, and that skews the perception, but my estimate is there's a bigger percentage of fucked-up, outlier personalities amongst creative types than amongst the general population. Just a perception. Maybe some sociologist or psychiatrist can make a statistical analysis and see how it holds up.

I didn't know Hemingway, I've no footing to judge him one way or another. I'm inclined to see some merit in the metaphor of him wearing his merkin on his chest, but my opinion of the man doesn't amount to shit. My opinion of his writing doesn't count for shit either, but the text remains a static mirror long after the death of the author. It reflects who I am in my opinion of it, not Hemingway. But I think by and large it's easier and safer to make pronouncements about the author and his relationship to the work than to make pronouncements that will only reveal something about me and my relationship to the work. Yeah, we're all critics of something out there, including the creative types, but what's they say about us?
Provenance
QUOTE(Tibro @ Aug 6 2014, 10:44 PM) *
Creative types seem a more interesting subject to observe and ponder than accountant types. But maybe that's just me.

Doubtless.
http://www.nakedaccounting.com/
Tibro
Figures.
Provenance
'zactly!

Click to view attachment
Tibro
O God!
Jaded Prole
Leda?
Tibro
Zeus!

(As sketchy as they come.)
Artemis
I had a naked accounting once.
We (two men, two women) were playing strip poker, and I had nothing left to lose, when a neighbor woman came barging in without knocking.
Very amusing. For her.
It could have been worse, she could timed her visit for a little later ....
Jaded Prole
Reminds me of a moment giving support to the wife of one of our brave enlistees stationed overseas.

A missionary knock on the door and me, naked as nature intended. She told them her husband was at sea. I come to the door and asked if I could be of assistance . . .

Best way yet to get rid of the bastids.
Artemis
QUOTE
my estimate is there's a bigger percentage of fucked-up, outlier personalities amongst creative types than amongst the general population

I think that's been well established. If not, it should have been. It's sort of obvious.
QUOTE
It reflects who I am in my opinion of it, not Hemingway.

It sheds light upon both. Maybe you more than him, but that can't be helped - you know you better than you know him.
QUOTE
But I think by and large it's easier and safer to make pronouncements about the author and his relationship to the work than to make pronouncements that will only reveal something about me and my relationship to the work. Yeah, we're all critics of something out there, including the creative types, but what's they say about us?

Again, I don't see how you can do one without doing the other. I don't think you want to be judged by a robot, and one way or another, you're going to be judged.
QUOTE
Merkin

"Merkin" did occur to me. An ad at the back of Death in the Afternoon for chest toupées would be cool. Years ago, there was a fine feature in the National Lampoon about women's bush styles, including "the merkin". Now that's literature.

Artemis
QUOTE
A missionary knock on the door
abs-cheers.gif
The neighbor woman did make another attempt. The door was locked, forcing her to knock, which was fortunate, as the missionary work by then was on the wrong side of the door, so to speak.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki801ccg9Yo
Provenance
QUOTE(Jaded Prole @ Aug 7 2014, 02:22 PM) *

Reminds me of a moment giving support to the wife of one of our brave enlistees stationed overseas.

If I recall correctly, that's called doing the Jody Grind.
Artemis
For what it's worth, everybody involved in the sordid histoire I revisited was enlisted, or attached to an enlisted person, and overseas. There's more than one way to grind a Jody.
Hillbilly
QUOTE
Have some absinthe but it makes too crazy dreams
Ain't it the truth.
But only, it seems, if you've either abstained for a few days, or have more than one.
Or maybe it's just me, and maybe it's only every now and again.
But I'll blame it on the absinthe.
Tibro
QUOTE
QUOTE
It reflects who I am in my opinion of it, not Hemingway.

It sheds light upon both. Maybe you more than him, but that can't be helped - you know you better than you know him.


Certainly so. But, looking back, I've misjudged people because of my estimation of their work and conversely had my opinion of the work influenced by knowning (sic) the person behind it. Then there's always the problem of how well do I really know myself? Many have argued, occasionally with keen persuasion, that I am lacking, to varying extents, in that department.

People are by nature mutable. Occasionally inscrutable. Good work, too. The best accounting allows for well-intended ambiguity.
Artemis
QUOTE
I've misjudged people because of my estimation of their work

Me too, but my opinion of Hemingway as a human being was always due to what I had read about him, not due to reading his books. I had never read any of them until I translated Benoît Noël's book about absinthe. It was so full of Hemingway references that I thought it prudent to do a little research, so I ordered the pertinent Hemingway books and read them. It was only then that I decided his writing wasn't all it was cracked up to be. To sum up, him being a great writer and being an asshole are two separate issues. I chirped up in this thread strictly on the asshole issue (it was in the vein of - "papa"? fuck "papa"! who cares to whom that asshole wrote?). But I decided to mention in passing that I didn't think he was a great writer, either. Certainly not unskilled, but overrated.
Kirk
Most of it adolescent.
Tibro
And adolescents need great writers, too. Or texts. Or something. Something I'm not about to supply.

I'll go on record as saying I've never read a book by "Papa" from cover to cover.

Drink it or sink it. Something like that. Life's too xort.

I'm just saying, never having met him, and barely having read him (not for want of opportunity) that I'd be open to having a drink with his like before I passed judgement on him as an individual. But it's likely I'd want to sink the social situation (if I were to pre-judge from the werk).
Provenance
Read or not what you like. But would non-descendents of his who never even met the guy please stop referring to him as Papa?
Tibro
Only if the next time we meet I can call you "my bitch".

Deal?
Artemis
I may or may not be free to infer from Kirk's comment that what he had in mind was not that writing for adolescents is a bad thing, but that fully grown people celebrating writing for adolescents as great literature or identifying adolescent urges and hinjinx with machismo is not a good thing. I would prefer to see adolescents reading Richard Brautigan, also a disturbed individual, who ended his own life in the same way as did Hemingway, if they really must read something.
Tibro
I'm in total agreement with your assessments. Wouldn't expectorate less.
Artemis
Be you drunken ceaselessly.
http://allpoetry.com/The-Galilee-Hitch-Hiker
Jack Batemaster
Herningway : ancien, chauve, ennuyeux …
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