Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: The Kosher Fairy
The Fée Verte Absinthe Forum - The Oldest, Largest, Most Authoritative Absinthe Forum. > Absinthe & Absinthiana > General Absinthe Discussion
FarbrengenVerte
Hello everyone and thanks for the warm welcome over in the Newbie section.

As I mentioned on that thread. I am a new Absinthe drinker that is somewhat limited by what Absinthes I can and cannot drink as I am a religious Jew and adhere to strict Kosher laws.

The only thing that could make an Abnsithe not Kosher is its use of grapes, brandy, wine etc in its Alcohol base.

This is made somewhat easier in the US with ingredient labeling laws. However, most websites for the importation of Absinthes are not very helpful disclosing what base the alcohol is.

My goal here is to create a short list of Absinthe that:

A) Are certified Kosher and by whom

B) Could be Kosher (because they are distilled using grain, beet sugar, honey or adhere to the strict guidelines behind a kosher grape product). Is it all grain all the time. Do they also make a wine based absinthe. If so are the same distillery equipment used etc. Its important to note that for some Jews, this information is ok while others will not partake of the drink unless it has a Kosher certification or is listed on a Kosher supervised service website

C) For sure uses grape products.


I should also ad that I am not a Rabbi. My knowledge about Kosher and not Kosher is purely from what I know by being an Orthodox Jew. The laws of Kosher can get very complicated so by no means should my words be considered final. If you are Jewish and looking for a Kosher Absinthe and have questions you should consult your Rav or Rebbe.

WHATS KOSHER?

By Kosher I am only referring to the strictest Orthodox Jewish interpretation and in no way mean to debase any brands that are not kosher. People who keep kosher will be grateful to know that they cannot partake and the brands that are listed usually know that they already are not. Some have even looked into Kosher certification and and/or have affiliation with a brand that has Kosher certification (I am thinking of Jade and Lucid).

When it comes to grape based products and Kosher, wine, more than any other food or drink, represents the holiness and separateness of the Jewish people. It is used for the sanctification of Shabbat and Yom Tov and at Jewish simchot. In the Beit Hamikdash wine was poured upon the altar together with the sacrifice.

However, since wine was and still is used in many forms of idolatrous worship, it has a unique status in Jewish law, which places extra restrictions on the making and handling of wine. This includes wine used for non-ceremonial purposes.

The production and handling of kosher wine must be done exclusively by Jews. Wine, grape juice, and all products containing wine or grape juice must remain solely in Jewish hands during the manufacturing process and also after the seal of the bottle has been opened. We are not allowed to drink any wine or grape juice, or any drink containing wine or grape juice, which has been touched by a non-Jew after the seal of the bottle has been opened.

Like all things there is of course an exception and that is wine that is Yayin Mevushal or Boiled Wine

Kosher wine (or grape juice) which has been boiled prior to the bottling process is called yayin mevushal. In the time of the Temple, boiling wine rendered it unfit to be brought upon the Altar.

Yayin mevushal is not considered "sacramental wine" and is therefore not included in the prohibition against being handled by non-Jews. This wine must, as with all kosher wines, bear the symbol of a reliable supervision organization and it should say yayin mevushal. But the wine still must meet all other other kosher qualifications listed above.

A wide variety of domestic and imported kosher wines under reliable supervision has been added to the sweet Concords traditionally associated with kosher wines (Kedem, Manachwitz). Many of these wines are yayin mevushal, as indicated on the label.

What Does This Mean For Grape Ingredients In Processed Foods and Absinthes?

All liquids produced from fresh or dried grapes, whether alcoholic or non-alcoholic, such as grape juice, and wine vinegar, are in the same category as wine in Jewish Law. Therefore, foods with grape flavoring or additives must always have a reliable hechsher (certification). Examples are jam, soda, popsicles, candy, juice packed fruit, fruit punch, and lemonade.

Alcoholic drinks such as cognac, brandy and absinthe that have wine bases fall into the same category. This goes for liqueurs and blended whiskeys that are often blended with wine. All such beverages require kosher supervision, as does herring in wine sauce.

Even cream of tartar is made from wine sediment and needs rabbinical supervision.

It is also important to note that a food can be considered non-kosher if it is produced with the same equipment that uses non-kosher grape or wine, especially if the equipment is used for heading the food or alcohol and is made of a porous material like metal, ceramics etc. Such equipment can be kashered in-between batches. This creates some problems regarding certain distillers I have talked to.

I should also note that even amongst orthodox circles there is, as in all things, a discrepancy. For example, even though a distillery might only ever use grain neutral spirits, there are many orthodox Jews who will not consume the product unless it has a certification or is on a approved list (see end of post). Others are fine relying on their own knowledge etc.

What About Passover?

Under normal circumstances grape-based Absinthes would be Kosher for Passover. But this would only be the case if A) The wine or grape was kosher and B) that the distillery does not also use grain-based products in their equipment or thoroughly cleaned the equipment in between batches before producing a kosher for Passover product.

I should note that grain-based distilleries owned by a Jew or Jews must shut down during the week of Passover, and/or sell all their grain to a non-Jew during the week of Passover, in order to continue producing a Kosher product as grain owned by a Jew during Passover becomes unfit (not kosher).

All of this is, as I am sure you are aware, is based on the law of Chametz.

For those that don't know what I am talking about, Chametz is any food product made from wheat, barley, rye, oats, spelt, or their derivatives, which has leavened (risen). Our sages have determined that flour from any of these five grains that comes in contact with water or moisture will leaven, unless fully baked within eighteen minutes (what you probably know as matzah). Jews are commanded by the Torah that if a food contains even a trace of chametz, we don’t eat it, we don’t derive benefit from it, and we make sure not to have any of it in our possession for all the days of Passover.

In G-d's own words:

19 Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses; for whosoever shall eatnthat which is leavened, that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a sojourner, or one that is born in the land.

20 Ye shall eat nothing leavened; in all your habitations shall ye eat unleavened bread.' {P}


Hence the Matzah.

To be certain that a product is kosher for Passover, it must have rabbinical certification. Otherwise it is possible that it contains chametz ingredients, or traces of chametz if it was processed on the same equipment as chametz products. Thus, unless a product is certified Kosher for Passover, we consider it chametz, and make sure not to have it in our possession on Passover.

What does this mean for Absinthe?

Any time grains (wheat, barley, spelt, rye or oat) ferment or come into contact with hot liquids, the result is chametz. Many types of alcohol are made of, or contain, fermented grain and are therefore chametz. Alcoholic beverages made of other substances are permitted. In fact there is kosher for Passover plum brandy and potato vodka. Before purchasing, Orthodox Jews ascertain that the beverage is certified as kosher for Passover. As far as I understand, Lucid Absinthe is not certified Kosher for Passover even though it uses Beet alcohol instead of grain.
Ashkenazic Jews, who traditionally refrain from eating legumes on Passover, avoid alcohol produced from legumes as well. In addition, there are some (including Chabad) who traditionally avoid all alcohol on Passover (with the exception of wine).

The whole purpose of my effort is because I saw the low-quality absinthes rise to the top on Kosher lists, so I might to make sure that the higher quality ones have an opportunity to get in front of this spirit loving demographic. Especially as Purim approaches ;-).

If you are interested in a list of approved alcoholic beverages you can find more information here.
http://www.kashrut.c…ticles/liquor2/

In my next post I will list what I have learned so far.
FarbrengenVerte
I have reached out to a few distilleries, all of which have been very familiar with the issues involved.

What I have learned is that being brand specific is no longer good enough as some brands will have a variation of both or will make other type of spirits with grape bases. When that is the case deeper questions must be asked.

As learn more I will ad to directly to this post

BASED ON PAST THREADS & EMAILS AND MORE, HERE IS WHAT I HAVE LEARNED SO FAR:

WITH KOSHER CERTIFICATION
Lucid - OU - Parve
Doubs Premium Absinthe - London Beth Din - Parve
Arack Mabrouka Absinthe - Rabbinate K.gt and DT Beit Yosef (Israel)

Pernod Absinthe - 40% (REALLY A PASTIS) - London Beth Din - Parve (I am the one that pointed out to them that the PERNOD ABSINTHE 68% Vol listed on p.113 of The Really Jewish Food Guide 2014 as approved Parev is now made with grape alcohol and is therefore NOT KOSHER.)

KOSHER BUT LOW QUALITY ABSINTHE
Trenet
Rodniks - Triangle K - Authorised by Rabanut Harashit of Israel
Rodniks Black - Authorised by Rabanut Harashit of Israel
Staroplzenecky KOSHER Absinth 64%
Absinth 35
Black Absinthe 80
Hapsburg Green
Dr.Rauchs 50 cl



COULD BE KOSHER (Product Specific)
La Muse Verte
Pacfique
Vieux Carre
Kuebler
Tenneyson Absinthe Royal
Vilya
Meadow of Love
Walton Waters
Marteau Belle Époque (NOT the Master's Reserve, which IS made with grape spirits)
Versinthe (Liquoristerie de Provence)

Artémisia-Bugnon
La Clandestine
Absinthe Angélique Verte Suisse - 70 cl
Absinthe Butterfly

Matter Luginbühl (Tempus Fugit?)
Duplias Verte
Mansinthe

OriginalAbsinthes.com
Absinthe Original (I know I know)
Absinthe King Gold (Again, I know I know)


COULD BE KOSHER (BUT NEEDS TO BE PRODUCT SPECIFIC)
Un Emile (Emile Pernod)
F Guy
Lemercier
La Fee


NOT KOSHER
Any of the Jades :-(
St George
Leopold
La Sorciere Verte and Blance
Emperor Norton

Pernod
Pernod Absinthe 68%
Absinthe Pernod Rocette Traditionelle

Fguy
La Fée XS Francaise

Emile Pernot
Absinthe Vieux Pontarlier
Jaded Prole
The best surviving absinthes being old and from before the ban are not Kosher. Meadow of Love and Walton Waters are made with grain neutral spirits. Few if any absinthes are made under rabbinical supervision, unlike slivovitz. Still, though some spend years interpreting and parsing talmud and mishnah, distillation was not prevalent when those old laws were written and I would think all that boiling and purification would separate the end result from "wine" as it was originally understood. But for a few wine brands, all liquors are handled if not made by gentiles. Still, you can feel safe drinking the brands I mentioned in that no grape spirits are used.

Welcome.
FarbrengenVerte
QUOTE(Jaded Prole @ Jan 13 2015, 12:50 AM) *

The best surviving absinthes being old and from before the ban are not Kosher. Meadow of Love and Walton Waters are made with grain neutral spirits. Few if any absinthes are made under rabbinical supervision, unlike slivovitz. Still, though some spend years interpreting and parsing talmud and mishnah, distillation was not prevalent when those old laws were written and I would think all that boiling and purification would separate the end result from "wine" as it was originally understood. But for a few wine brands, all liquors are handled if not made by gentiles. Still, you can feel safe drinking the brands I mentioned in that no grape spirits are used.

Welcome.


Thanks!

I have seen in some places the words Kosher associated with Meadow of Love… but not sure if it was refering to it being "kosher" in terms of how Absinthes go" or Kosher in terms of Jewish law.
FarbrengenVerte
QUOTE(Jaded Prole @ Jan 13 2015, 12:50 AM) *

The best surviving absinthes being old and from before the ban are not Kosher.



I understand that some, like Pernod, were made with grain. But being that they were made so long ago and there was no supervision I would pretty much label any vintage Absinthe as not kosher, unfortunately.

Religious Jews, however, did drink Absinthe, as the memoir of the 6th Lubuvitcher Rebbe attests to.

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/…-the-Maggid.htm

Heres a blurb

QUOTE
On the way, Reb Mordechai mentioned that for several years it had been his custom at the end of Yom Kippur to recite Havdalah over absinthe (a strong, bitter liquor brewed from an extract of certain plants), and he dispatched someone to fetch him some absinthe. Meanwhile, he and Reb Chayim went into his private chamber.
chrysippvs
This is something I have thought a good bit myself (being in the kosher-ish camp, too) and actually wondered about historically.

Another thing to worry about is finishing. Some otherwise kosher-able absinthes have been known to use horse-hair filters, for instance, in the process which would much more than likely render them treif. The OU hechsher for Lucid is solid and I have no knowledge of anything that would render it posul. We can PM about that if you have more questions.

I have several friends that are much more frum than myself and Lucid is the direction that I point them in and they were all satisfied that it was a solid balance between quality absinthe and making sure to stay on the derekh.

Now, after reading that great article you sent, I'm going to start a minhag of making post-Yom Kippur havdalah with absinthe! Thanks for that link - it made my night.
Oxygenee
What an interesting thread. I think we're only beginning to explore the interaction of alcoholic beverages with the Jewish faith.
Jaded Prole
Thanks, FarbrengenVerte for the story of Reb Mordechai. Though I'm a secular, non-religious Ashkenazi, I do enjoy our culture, traditions, food and of course, the spirits. I know that fruit brandies like Vishnic and Slivovitz are firmly in our tradition, nice to see Absinthe there as well.
Artemis
Refreshing to have a newcomer bring solid information on a subject not previously addressed.
QUOTE

I have seen in some places the words Kosher associated with Meadow of Love… but not sure if it was refering to it being "kosher" in terms of how Absinthes go" or Kosher in terms of Jewish law.


Meadow of Love is made by Cheryl. She's a Buddhist, I think. For sure there's a Buddha in the distillery, and an altar with incense. I've been there and witnessed the process, but the only rabbi present was Rabbi Kirk, and he's far from Kosher, just look at his avatar. All Delaware Phoenix absinthes are made with grain alcohol. Pacifique also uses grain alcohol.

QUOTE
I understand that some, like Pernod, were made with grain.

Actually, they were proud of using French grape alcohol and touted their products as such. But keep in mind that there were a number of products bearing the name "Pernod", and they were not all made in the same distillery or by the same Pernods. Besides, it seems that the reality was that they used what they could get, and there was a time, due to the devastation of the grape crop by disease, when grape alcohol was scarce.
G&C
The base used in Pacifique is Kosher but not for Passover.
Hillbilly
Unless you wanna pass it on over to me. Ba dum tssk.
FarbrengenVerte
QUOTE(Jaded Prole @ Jan 13 2015, 01:51 PM) *

Thanks, FarbrengenVerte for the story of Reb Mordechai. Though I'm a secular, non-religious Ashkenazi, I do enjoy our culture, traditions, food and of course, the spirits. I know that fruit brandies like Vishnic and Slivovitz are firmly in our tradition, nice to see Absinthe there as well.



I know right. The only issue is that that story was written by the 6th Lubuvitcher Rebber in a letter to his daughter (who became the Rebetzin of The Rebbe that everyone probably knows about.). He probably write that letter in the early 1900's when Absinthe meant one thing.

The story, however, takes place during the time of of the Bal Shem Tov which puts it around 1750-1770ish. In which case Absinthe, especially in Poland, could have meant something else entirely.

Absinthe is also mentioned in a well known legal text written by the Chofitz Chiam (famous for his laws about not speaking badly about other people). The work I am refering to is the Mishnah Beruah and it prohibits Absinthe drinking on the Sabbath. The reason that the Mishnah Bereua prohibits the consumption of Absinthe on Shabbos is because of its healing qualities as all medications are prohibited on shabbas (except in life treating and other circumstances). However, if a food is normally consumed by healthy people as well, although it may have had healing properties, it may be consumed on Shabbat. Therefore, of one regular drinks absinthe as pleasurable drink and not for remedial purposes, it may be consumed on Shabbos.

Here is a link to the text in English translation.

The Mishnah Beruah was written in the latter part of the 1800's or early 1900's. Its author, known as the Chofetz Chiam, return his soul to the creator in the 1930's. This time means he could have been talking about the Absinthe we all know and love… but because he was living in Poland (where apparently the La Verte Absinthe was not known to be so popular) it could be that he was referring to, like in the story of Reb Mordachai, the original medicinal Absinttum (which was more like wormwood soaked in wine).

And, there is also no such thing as a non-religious Jew ;-)
FarbrengenVerte
QUOTE(Oxygenee @ Jan 13 2015, 07:18 AM) *

What an interesting thread. I think we're only beginning to explore the interaction of alcoholic beverages with the Jewish faith.


Well, the next big Jewish Holiday is Purim.

From the Talmudic tractate Megillah (7b):

Rava said: A person is obligated to drink on Purim until he does not know the difference between "cursed be Haman" and "blessed be Mordechai"

The issue of whether and how Rava’s statement should be implemented in practice is a matter of disagreement between various Halachic authorities. The question, however, is not what Rava means, but whether or not the Talmud contains another opinion, contrary to Rava’s.

Many of the greatest Rabbis follow Rava’s ruling. Maimonides writes: "What is the obligation of the [Purim] feast? That one should eat meat … and drink wine until he is drunk and falls asleep from drunkenness" The Rif, Rosh, Tur and Shulchan Aruch all cite Rava’s dictum without any qualification. The Rama, on the other hand, comments that "There are others who say that one need not become that drunk, but rather that one should drink more than is one’s custom." The Rama concludes: "Whether one drinks more or drinks less, the main thing is that his intention is for the sake of Heaven."

To summarize: All Halachic authorities are unanimous in ruling that it is a mitzvah to drink, and drink to excess, on Purim, though there are differences of opinion as to whether the obligation is to get as drunk as Rava enjoins, or to a lesser degree. In any case, the concept of becoming intoxicated on Purim to the point that one’s reason is totally incapacitated is a legitimate Halachic position, which requires understanding and validation regardless of whether or not it is accepted in practice.

From Chabad.org

QUOTE
In sum, there is one day in the year in which we enjoy direct, immediate access to various truths. This day is Purim. For Jews that rejoice on Purim--in a way that rejoices in his bond with G-d without equivocation--has no need for reason. For he is in touch with his truest self--a self before which his animalistic drives are neutralized, a self which requires no medium by which to express itself and no intermediaries by which to relate to its source in G-d.

The Jew who rejoices on Purim no longer requires the mind to tell him the difference between "cursed be Haman" and "blessed be Mordechai"; he is above it all, relating to the divine truth that transcends the bifurcation of good and evil. For the Jew who rejoices on Purim, the mind is utterly superfluous, something which only encumbers the outpouring of his soul, something which only quantifies and qualifies that which is infinite and all-pervading. So he puts his mind to sleep for a few hours, in order to allow his true self to emerge.


I strongly urge any Jews reading this to find your local chabad shul for a purim you'll never forget. Bring some Lucid with you and you will be the hit of the party I am sure.

Here is what it looks like :)

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/2frPSMVsDi4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
FarbrengenVerte
QUOTE(G&C @ Jan 13 2015, 05:10 PM) *

The base used in Pacifique is Kosher but not for Passover.


Interesting. When I asked the folks at Jade for any other Absinthes to look into for Kosher purposes they mentioned (without authoritavly saying anything, that Pacifique could be worth looking into.
FarbrengenVerte
QUOTE(Artemis @ Jan 13 2015, 04:09 PM) *

Actually, they were proud of using French grape alcohol and touted their products as such. But keep in mind that there were a number of products bearing the name "Pernod", and they were not all made in the same distillery or by the same Pernods. Besides, it seems that the reality was that they used what they could get, and there was a time, due to the devastation of the grape crop by disease, when grape alcohol was scarce.


I see. I got that info from here.

In that article Serious Eats says:

QUOTE
In late 2013, Pernod Ricard announced a re-launch of its original Pernod Absinthe formula ($68 for 750 mL), re-created based on records from the 1800s. In the restored recipe, the neutral base shifted to a grape spirit to provide a fuller body and texture, they started sourcing wormwood from the fields of Pontarlier, France, and they shifted to coloring the spirit through the maceration of botanicals like stinging nettles instead of using dyes. The results, in our eyes, are a pleasant upgrade. The re-formulation tastes like a more upscale, refined version of what made the last iteration of Pernod a classic, with the same botanicals like melissa (an herb in the mint family also known as lemon balm), minty hyssop, and savory fennel. The anise is still present in about the same dose, but the taste doesn't have as much of a bitter metallic twang on the finish.
Oxygenee
The pre-1914 Pernod Fils company only used grape spirits as a base for their absinthe, and advertised this fact expressly in their marketing literature. It was one of the key points distinguishing high-end absinthes like theirs from cheaper alternatives.

In 1900, in the fevered atmosphere of the the Dreyfus Affair, an overtly anti-semitic booklet attacking the company and the Veil-Picard brothers who owned it (originally Jewish bankers from Besencon) was published under the title La Verite sur la Maison Pernod Fils. This alleged that Pernod Fils in fact covertly substituted much cheaper grain alcohol for the claimed wine alcohol. There's not a shred of evidence though that this claim was anything more than an anti-semitic slur, and I've never seen it repeated anywhere else, even in the anti-Dreyfusard press like Libre Parole (which did however rejoice when the factory burned down in 1901).

The modern Pernod company is not the same entity as the original Maison Pernod Fils, nor strictly speaking even its corporate successor. The Ricard pastis company bought all the Pernod Fils trademarks in the 1930's, forming the corporation now known as Pernod Ricard. The reference you read referred to the original, very low quality early 2000's Pernod absinthe, which used beet alcohol. They moved to grape spirits with the release of the improved Mk II product in 2013.
Artemis
The 2000 Pernod absinthe was garbage.
The 2013 Pernod absinthe was different, but not better. The "metallic twang" at the finish was for me its most notable attribute, not tolerable, much less pleasant.
QUOTE
they started sourcing wormwood from the fields of Pontarlier, France, and they shifted to coloring the spirit through the maceration of botanicals like stinging nettles instead of using dyes

"Such as" stinging nettles, not "like" stinging nettles. Dyes color the absinthe, but the intent of finishing herbs isn't coloration, it's scent and flavor. The best wormwood on earth won't matter if coloration herbs lend a bad flavor. I can't say for sure if stinging nettles are responsible for the "twang", but it baffles me why anyone would use that crap when it's been established beyond a shadow of a doubt which herbs are the historically accurate and tasty finishing herbs.

The original Lucid was garbage.
I hear it's improved, but I'm confident I wouldn't drink it, much less offer it to anybody.

QUOTE
When I asked the folks at Jade for any other Absinthes to look into for Kosher purposes they mentioned (without authoritavly saying anything, that Pacifique could be worth looking into.

Zman (member here) owns Pacifique. G&C works with him. If you're looking for authorities on Pacifique, look to them.

In general, if I had to make compromises because of religion that limited me to the likes of Lucid, I would either switch to some other liquor, or some other religion.
OCvertDe
QUOTE(Artemis @ Jan 16 2015, 05:50 PM) *
In general, if I had to make compromises because of religion that limited me to the likes of Lucid, I would either switch to some other liquor, or some other religion.

^
FarbrengenVerte
QUOTE(Oxygenee @ Jan 16 2015, 06:08 AM) *

The pre-1914 Pernod Fils company only used grape spirits as a base for their absinthe, and advertised this fact expressly in their marketing literature. It was one of the key points distinguishing high-end absinthes like theirs from cheaper alternatives.

In 1900, in the fevered atmosphere of the the Dreyfus Affair, an overtly anti-semitic booklet attacking the company and the Veil-Picard brothers who owned it (originally Jewish bankers from Besencon) was published under the title La Verite sur la Maison Pernod Fils. This alleged that Pernod Fils in fact covertly substituted much cheaper grain alcohol for the claimed wine alcohol. There's not a shred of evidence though that this claim was anything more than an anti-semitic slur, and I've never seen it repeated anywhere else, even in the anti-Dreyfusard press like Libre Parole (which did however rejoice when the factory burned down in 1901).

The modern Pernod company is not the same entity as the original Maison Pernod Fils, nor strictly speaking even its corporate successor. The Ricard pastis company bought all the Pernod Fils trademarks in the 1930's, forming the corporation now known as Pernod Ricard. The reference you read referred to the original, very low quality early 2000's Pernod absinthe, which used beet alcohol. They moved to grape spirits with the release of the improved Mk II product in 2013.


Wow Oxy this is truly fascinating! And thanks for Clarifying and Thank you for sharing. Is it online anywhere? So the owners were Jewish? The Pernod family was not Im guessing?

Can you help me in letting me know which products of the brands in my list are main using grain alcohol and which are not. And which brands, if any, ever only use grain or beet alcohol?
FarbrengenVerte
QUOTE(Artemis @ Jan 16 2015, 10:50 PM) *

The original Lucid was garbage.
I hear it's improved, but I'm confident I wouldn't drink it, much less offer it to anybody.


I have tried both and prefer the latter batches that reference Sukkah Hill. Why do you not like it?

QUOTE

Zman (member here) owns Pacifique. G&C works with him. If you're looking for authorities on Pacifique, look to them.

Thanks!

QUOTE

In general, if I had to make compromises because of religion that limited me to the likes of Lucid, I would either switch to some other liquor, or some other religion.


Well Im not to limited. Iv determined that Meadow of Love, Pacifique, La Cladistine (and everything else the distillery makes), Duplais, Keubler and a couple others are ok… at least for me.

For now I just need to know which Absintehs are made with grain wand which aren't. Will work from there
Provenance
QUOTE(FarbrengenVerte @ Jan 20 2015, 08:24 PM) *
Well Im not to limited. Iv

For now I just need to know which Absintehs are made with grain wand which aren't.

Use of proper spelling and grammar is important.
Jaded Prole
Indeed. As for "grain," its really only relevant in the religious/legalistic parsing of those without much knowledge of distilling. There is no grain in grain neutral spirits. Take wheat based vodka. First you have wheat which you sprout, dry, and grind. Then you simmer it with enzymes to convert starch to available sugars. Then you add yeast which may get some nutrients from the grain but mostly process the sugars to breathe after they use up available oxygen. In the processing of sugars, yeast produce CO2 and alcohol. Distillation is about isolating and purifying that alcohol. Whiskeys have more of the essence of original grains but by the time you get grain neutral spirits, there is nothing of the grain left -- only concentrated yeast pee -- or alcohol. As far as "chametz" goes, that brisket is made of pure grain far more than a shot of vodka is. In America, most grain neutral spirit is made from corn though one company in Idaho produces potato based spirits. Whatever is used, the finished product, unlike wines or beer is far removed from the source of sugars.

Absinthes that use grape spirits will say so because this is an extra expense and considered an attribute. Most use grain neutral spirits. Beet alcohol is considered inferior, as is Lucid by connoisseurs and probably designed as such as to not compete with the Jades.

I can understand the issue for religious Jews as to which blessing might be appropriate before drinking but for the rest, a la chiam may suffice. Life is short -- enjoy.
Artemis
QUOTE
I have tried both and prefer the latter batches that reference Sukkah Hill. Why do you not like it?

I never tasted the current version and never heard of Sukkah Hill.
The original (or the one I tasted years ago, in any case) was dirty.
Dirty means it has a funk, like the smell of swamp water.
It generally means the alcohol or the absinthe, or both, were poorly rectified.
To put it in two words, it stunk.
Absinthe is supposed to have a fine smell. Some smell better than others, but never should it stink.
Artemis
QUOTE
Beet alcohol is considered inferior, as is Lucid by connoisseurs and probably designed as such as to not compete with the Jades.

This goes to why I wouldn't bother to revisit Lucid, improved or not. It's not because of beet alcohol - one neutral alcohol is the same as the next when it comes to flavor (there is none). It's because it's apparently designed as an entry level product, what the French call bon marché. The phrase can mean a good bargain, but generally it's a perjorative, meaning cheap. Although Lucid isn't cheap for many people, obviously there's a reason for the difference in price between Lucid and the other Jade products.
Artemis
QUOTE
So the owners were Jewish? The Pernod family was not Im guessing?

My guess is the original founder of the Pernod absinthe business was Catholic, but Edmond-Charles Veil-Picard, whom I'm pretty sure was a Jew, bought into the Pernod business from Louis Alfred Pernod around 1888.
OCvertDe
I've bought a lot of Lucid over the years, mainly because for the most part, it was the best thing on local shelves. As such, it got me out of some jambs. I never recall any stink from any of the many bottles I had. Or funk, or anything else for that matter. My main gripe with it is with what it isn't: which is to say, anything special. I've heard it called "Jade light", and found the snarky witticism to be quite accurate. If Jade was thinner, less complex, cheaper, simpler, it would be Lucid. The worst thing I can say is that there's nothing especially right about it. Be that as it may, it's easy to get.
But that was then, and this is now. And now, (as of the last two years or so) I can get Vieux Pontarlier on a shelf about an hour from home, which while still nothing to write home about, is worlds better. And since I drive for a living, I get paid to swing through the area regularly enough to not get caught without any Absinthe and having to wait for mail order for something decent.
Bruno Rygseck
I cannot finish my bottle of Lucid, it does not taste good. When I had some Jade NO some time ago I tasted them in parallel, and with any normal absinthe dilution ratio Lucid was undrinkable while NO was alright. So I would not call it a lighter version of Jade.

An old thread about absinthe base where the base alcohol was discussed (Absinthe Brands Discussion):
http://www.feeverte.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=5091
Artemis
What it comes down to is the dirty Lucid was undrinkable, and clean Lucid is (by most accounts) unremarkable.
I knew I was taking a risk when I said above that neutral alcohol has no flavor. I was going by my internal definition of neutral, which is that it has no flavor. Dictionary definitions aren't of much use, because distilleries all over the world work under legal definitions, which vary from place to place.
I agree with Cheryl in that old thread that truly neutral alcohol such as what she uses is good because it give the herbs no place to hide.
On the other hand, fruit alcohol can bring a nice fruity nuance to absinthe, and it seems to do something to meld the herbs as well.
Absomphe
QUOTE(Artemis @ Jan 23 2015, 02:14 PM) *

I agree with Cheryl in that old thread that truly neutral alcohol such as what she uses is good because it give the herbs no place to hide.
On the other hand, fruit alcohol can bring a nice fruity nuance to absinthe, and it seems to do something to meld the herbs as well.


Agreed, on both counts.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2018 Invision Power Services, Inc.