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Kirk
Over half of all Muslims support sharia law and think it is the word of god. In some of the countries surveyed over 80% believe in Sharia law.
Islam is not a peaceful religion and violent extremist is the wrong name for these people, they are Islamic terrorists. When Obama said that 99.9% of all Muslims are peaceful he pulled that number out of his ass.
Islamic terrorism
"But who wants to make Sharia the official law of their country? According to the survey results, the overwhelming majority of Muslims in Southeast Asia (like Malaysia at 86%), South Asia (Afghanistan 99% and Pakistan 84%), the Middle East and North Africa (the highest being Iraq at 91% and the Palestinian territories at 89%), and Sub-Saharan Africa (with the biggest supporter being the Muslims of Niger.)

So what’s the big deal over Sharia law anyway? Shouldn’t every religion have the right to follow its own laws? Well, not exactly. Not when the laws of the religion conflict dramatically with the laws of the land.

In the case of Sharia, the laws are incompatible with Western society, which is largely based on a common Judeo-Christian culture. Other religions besides Judaism and Christianity often share a similar moral foundation, making it easier for their adherents to assimilate. Islam, however, fails miserably. Most Muslims who integrate well into our Western culture are secular, but fundamentalism is a growing trend and is more of a normality among Muslims than among other religious groups. This explains why the global support for Sharia among Muslims is so high.
Jaded Prole
Christians support New Testament values

Jews support "Halaka"

Muslims support Sharia

Buddhists are over it and work on detachment

Santo Daime believe in Ayahuasca and what the spirits tell them

Hindus accept Samsara and hope not to come back again

Nationalists believe in fear of the other

I believe in Absinthe and human decency

Most of us, Muslims included (which is the largest western religion), do our best to get by
and live peacefully with each other.

In the real world, most American terrorists are fundamentalist Christians but you individually
have far more of a chance of being struck by lightening than experiencing terrorism (except maybe from your landlord, boss or other renteirs).
Kirk
"American terrorists" my ass, those are flukes, Islamic terrorism is a mass movement. The only way a Muslim can integrate is to become secular, you can't say that about any other religion.
QUOTE
Most of us, Muslims included
How do you support that theory, I want numbers.
Jaded Prole
Oh? How many Muslims have you known personally? I've known some that weren't all that religious and some that were really religious. One, a relatively orthodox woman from Morocco is a friend of mine living in Virginia Beach (a relatively racist right-wing place). She has a couple of kids in public schools and drives a school bus -- wearing her hijab. He husband has a pizza place. Nice folks -- definitely not terrorists.

By the way, there are over 2038 Billion Muslims in the world. A minuscule percentage about .00006625% or roughly 106,000 of them are extremists.

The most dangerous terrorist movement is made of the money worshipers. They destroy countries to pad thier pockets leaving a wake of pain, trauma and resentment. Most people attracted to non-state terrorism aren't all that religious but some are the refugees of our wars. Some are survivors of our drone terror and some are people looking for belonging and identifying with our countries persecuted victims. That kind of reactive behavior is not limited to Muslims.

Blaming the religion of those victims misses an important point about cultural responses to being attacked -- which we see in our own country with the kind of screed you're repeating. It is based in fear and ignorance and fear is the mind killer. As Voltaire said; If you can be made to believe absurdities, you can be made to commit atrocities.

Problably not much of a Muslim community where you live or you could get to know some. People are people and most people do not belong to the most radical or fundamentalists sects of their born religions. I personally don't like fundamentalists of any kind (my Moroccan friends are an exception and they tolerate me).

No particular religion has a monopoly on violence. As for the craziness of Saudi driven Wahabi sect and the survivors of our own terror (ISIL), Jews can, (and are in Israel) and have been just as bad, as have Christians like the Phineas brotherhood and the Christian Identity movement (remember MacVeigh).
Kirk
Does your friend support sharia law?
To bring people like Mcveigh into this is ignoring the numbers.
QUOTE
Al Qaeda, which is responsible for some of the most well-known and devastating terrorist attacks in the last 15 years, receives the most negative ratings among the extremist groups included in the survey. A median of 57% across the 11 Muslim publics surveyed hold an unfavorable view of the group. This includes strong majorities of Muslims in Lebanon (96%), Jordan (81%), Turkey (73%), and Egypt (69%). More than half of Muslims in Nigeria, Senegal, Tunisia, Indonesia, and the Palestinian territories also view al Qaeda negatively. In Pakistan and Malaysia, Muslim views of al Qaeda are on balance unfavorable, but many offer no opinion.

This (Pew) poll tells me that a median of roughly 43% of the muslim public support, "hold a favorable view" or do not hold an unfavorable view of violent extremism.
Jaded Prole
Aside from showing that a majority of Muslims -- probably much higher, oppose extremism -- and many denounce it publicly even fighting in our own military, it is true that some in areas most affected by poverty and way support it.


Why might that be? Do you think it is based in religion?
What percentage of Americans favored the invasion of Iraq or support our assassin drone terror in Pakistan, Yemen Syria and North Africa?

Is that based on Christianity?

Could support for extremism be a reaction to western drawing of bad borders after WWI, to military aggression, support for dictatorships (like Saudi Arabia, the Shah, Saddam Hussein . . .) or of blind support for Israeli aggression and treatment of Palestinians?

The problem is that the more the "terrorism" the more we react and the more we react, the more terrorists we create. Terror begets terror. Its a Gordian knot that religion has little to do with, though in any culture, reaction may be colored by or justified in religious terms as it has deep emotional power.


Onward Christian soldier, have a drink on me.
Kirk
Christ Prol, some of these countries we are talking about are rich, or not poor enough to justify giving the death penalty for young girls in love, gays, addicts stoning unfaithful wives, yes, I think it is their religion and not my politics that caused that, they were doing this before they ever heard of America.
Do you believe we were the first barbarians?
Do you believe the threat we face from Islamic terrorists is on the same level as Timothy McVeigh or the KKK?
Jaded Prole
Of course we aren't the first or only barbarians. We have plenty of religious types of our own that would gladly stone Gays, addicts and unfaithful wives much less those that have abortions. Think Ted Cruz. I don't like oppression, religious or otherwise but neither do I think we should control the planet. Our country funds, supports, commits and creates more terrorism than the rest combined -- and not for religious reasons.

I'm all for undermining extremism but my point is there are better ways to do it. Living in and spreading fear of a religion is not one that bodes well for our own sanity much less decent policy. Better to guard ourselves, stay out of the business of dictating to others and provide good will, sustenance and opportunities for education than to keep supplying guns, death and exuding bigoted condemnation of other cultures.

Yes, I think we face a greater threat from domestic hate groups and from our own ruling class than we do from Islamic terrorists.

The Real Threat

Our food is
full of poisons

Our rivers and lakes
are toxic

The seas are
dying dumps

The air is
making us sick

You feel ill but
can't afford a doctor

Your child
is obese, autistic, with gender issues and ADD

The trains carrying poisons
keep running through your town and now
they're fracking --

the ground shakes and
the tap water burns

You live in fear of destitution

You dread what the weather will bring

The enemy that threatens us all --
is Islamic militants?
Kirk
Yes, I do believe the enemy that threatens us all is Islamic, terrorists, can't say it? Islamic terrorism.

"Yes, I think we face a greater threat from domestic hate groups and from our own ruling class than we do from Islamic terrorists."


you believe the threat we face from Islamic terrorists is less than from a Timothy McVeigh or the KKK.
That is pitiful.
You (we) better get out in front of this, and until you can drop the unearned outrage and admit that the islamic terrorists are coming at you with a dirty bomb than we are all going to die. They are organized, gaining strength, near having a nuke and they are coming, make no mistake.
Kirk
The Real Threat

Our food is
full of poisons _________ no, food is better and more plentiful than when I was young

Our rivers and lakes__________cleaner than they were 100 years ago
are toxic

The seas are
dying dumps- ------------------- But not trying to Nuke us

The air is
making us sick------------------------cleaner than it was when I was kid

You feel ill but
can't afford a doctor------------------------------------ no I don't and I have insurance if I did

Your child
is obese, autistic, with gender issues and ADD---------------------- No they are well educated and decent human beings

The trains carrying poisons
keep running through your town and now Trains don't frak and they carry freight cheaper, anything can be poison.
they're fracking --

the ground shakes and----------------------does it want me to die though?
the tap water burns

You live in fear of destitution----------------------------- I live in the best of all times

You dread what the weather will bring--------------------------- no When I'm bored I wonder what it will bring

The enemy that threatens us all --
is Islamic militants?
----------------------- Absolutely, millions of them and they all hate you and want you dead.
Islamic Terrorists
Kirk
I remember one time in the early days on this forum I stated that I understood what could make a suicide bomber,
and it was mostly the reasons you state. I was dead wrong, it is not hate, not tit for tat, it is brainwashing, done by a primitive tribe with primitive reason.
Jaded Prole
Yep, brainwashing
Kirk
You know I don't listen to talk radio, and I don't watch fox news.
Your right wing is nothing but the falconer that has lost it's falcon.
Jaded Prole
I know you don't but, even the corporate mainstream news is a fear-driven propaganda machine. Our country has been brainwashed to the point that we accept craziness and war justifications.

Most Muslims live in places like Indonesia. Even those in Pakistan and the middle east don't hate us or want us dead -- fanatic sects aside. What many do want is better relations and not having to fear drones, bombs or the spreading of war. Fanatics, especially religious and nationalist fanatics are all insane and dangerous. Most people fortunately are not fanatics.

This reminds me of an article I recently wrote.
G&C
I love you, Kirk!
Jaded Prole
Yeah, me too.
Kirk
QUOTE
By the way, there are over 2038 Billion Muslims in the world. A minuscule percentage about .00006625% or roughly 106,000 of them are extremists.

And:
QUOTE
Aside from showing that a majority of Muslims -- probably much higher, oppose extremism -- and many denounce it publicly even fighting in our own military, it is true that some in areas most affected by poverty and way support it.
Your words.
Do not go together, you cannot say these two things at the same time and be correct.
A 57% median majority against still leaves millions of people who support Islamic terrorism.
Kirk
Islamic terrorism is going to make the Nazi regime look like a walk in the park.
Jaded Prole
Nah, They are a self-limiting and temporary phenomenon -- though we do our best to keep them going to feed our war industry. They could never match us in murder or in efficiency.

Nature's backlash on the other hand will make it all seem like nothing.
Kirk
I'm just happy to be here.
There's no doubt that our policies have helped feed them but it's not a reason or an excuse for what's going on, and I think it's proved tenacious. It's worth noting that more Muslims are killed by Islamic terrorists than Christians, and the countries who polled highest in the "unfavorable" view of Islamic terror are the countries that have seen the most Islamic violence.
That still leaves millions who do not have an "unfavorable view" of Islamic terrorism.
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